Macross Frontier Plot Theories...

[jenius]

Because it makes sense?

Lol... huh? How? Just 'cause something works one way on Earth it'd be a pretty lousy extrapolation to say that's how the whole universe works. After all, our whales don't fly through space and fold. I mean yeah, if you're pandering to a pretty basic audience (which almost every show does) then you may want to stick with things people will recognize but Macross doesn't seem to bind itself too tightly to that. Now, if we learn Vajra are a human construct modeled after something on Earth then yes, it'd make a lot of sense for the Vajra to behave like hives you and I would recognize from Earth. Otherwise, for all we know, hives on Galia IV are patriarchal societies with queen initiated colonies.

[Duke Togo]

Lol... huh? How? Just 'cause something works one way on Earth it'd be a pretty lousy extrapolation to say that's how the whole universe works.

Not really, and we're not talking about "the whole universe", we're talking about the Vajra. I'm not going to sit here and debate hives and colony structure, but if you want to go on thinking there is some big king out there, well, you go right ahead. Good luck with that.

[d3v]

waitaminute... just realized. isn't this Fold Quartz thing starting to sound like the Chulip Crystals concept in Martian Successor Nadesico? hehe, a case of the parody being parodied/referenced by the original?

Nice catch! Next thing you know, they find out that the Vajra are actually being controlled by a race of humans dedicated to living the values taught to us by by the original SDFM (meaning their men always go after two women at a time but are unable to choose until the very end).

Edited July 28, 2008 by d3v

[dreamweaver13]

Nice catch! Next thing you know, they find out that the Vajra are actually being controlled by a race of humans dedicated to living the values taught to us by by the original SDFM (meaning their men always go after two women at a time but are unable to choose until the very end).

haha! The big reveal: the Vajra are unmanned bio weapons controlled from the planet nearest to the galactic center by.... the Megaroad 1 crew! Out for revenge for being left for dead by humanity, but with a fervent love for love triangles and anything Minmei. But Alto will be the key for peace, since he kinda adheres to the two-girl principle, and both of those girls happen to be like minmei.

[jenius]

Not really, and we're not talking about "the whole universe", we're talking about the Vajra. I'm not going to sit here and debate hives and colony structure, but if you want to go on thinking there is some big king out there, well, you go right ahead. Good luck with that.

It's just another theory to put out there. Since the Vajra aren't on Earth there's no reason to believe that their hive society should be held to the restraints of Earth's hive socieites (so my original quote should have been: "that's how all hives work in the whole universe" so it didn't sound as grandiose as the workings of the universe itself). Really though the theory doesn't have to hinge on this bigger/worse Vajra being a King, it could just be a more grand queen or some sort of ranking that doesn't have any earth equivalent whatsoever (nor indication of sex). It's not like we really know much about Vajra reproduction at this point other than the fact it involves eggs often times left in the hulls of ships.

[NoNameSt11]

It's just another theory to put out there. Since the Vajra aren't on Earth there's no reason to believe that their hive society should be held to the restraints of Earth's hive socieites (so my original quote should have been: "that's how all hives work in the whole universe" so it didn't sound as grandiose as the workings of the universe itself). Really though the theory doesn't have to hinge on this bigger/worse Vajra being a King, it could just be a more grand queen or some sort of ranking that doesn't have any earth equivalent whatsoever (nor indication of sex). It's not like we really know much about Vajra reproduction at this point other than the fact it involves eggs often times left in the hulls of ships.

Well keep in mind evolution will dictate the best structure becoming prevalent. Since every hive society on earth has evolved to involve only a queen and no king, it's only logical to deduce that even extraterrestrial hive societies will form the same structure. But this is all "sci-fi science".

From a writing standpoint, the vajra are modeled after bugs on earth and their hierarchy here. The hives, a drone's lack of independent reasoning, and the central queen dictating actions is all pointing out what they're based on. As such, I'd think their behavior is just one of survival. There's different colonies of vajra, just as there's countless bee hives, but in the end they're all the same species. One grand ruler of all the hives, a sort of 'super queen', seems rather unlikely and would result in much larger scale attacks against Frontier because then all vajra would be united rather than the separate groups and individual sorties.

[sucker4meltrans]

Something i have been thinking about, is Sheryl really famous through out the galaxy or is her whole story as it is known on Frontier just something Grace and Co fed to the Frontier?

[RedWolf]

Something i have been thinking about, is Sheryl really famous through out the galaxy or is her whole story as it is known on Frontier just something Grace and Co fed to the Frontier?

I heard that Sheryl was on top of the Galaxy Network charts for 17 weeks.

Galaxy Network is like the modern day MBS, Macross Broadcasting System.

[jenius]

Well keep in mind evolution will dictate the best structure becoming prevalent. Since every hive society on earth has evolved to involve only a queen and no king, it's only logical to deduce that even extraterrestrial hive societies will form the same structure. But this is all "sci-fi science".

You can't think "earth-centrically" when pondering life/evolution beyond the scope of Earth. You could say "but Earth is all we have to judge our experiences on" which is a fair enough start but it's nothing near concrete. The problem is that hives structured as described could just as likely be something unique to Earth. It is not at all logical to deduce that, with the infinite of variables that go into every component of life, that something similar would be emulated elsewhere. From a writer's standpoint though you could use the hive, as it is known on earth, as a convention easily enough (hives make great aliens, it's a time-honored tradition) and as a reader/viewer we can recognize that convention and make assumptions based on it (which is what everyone is doing with the Vajra) but the only thing that keeps writing conventions from getting stale is the ability to tweak them. So now the creator's of Macross Frontier may decide to leave their Vajra hive creatures as perfect mimics for hive creatures on Earth and stick strict to the convention but they could just as easily throw the earthbound hive to the wind and create their own completely unique (alien, if you will) structure. Just because we recognize a convention doesn't mean it has to be strictly adhered to and just because something congregates in hives does not mean it might not end up having a completely alien sociological system.

All that said, you're right that one grand ruler seems unlikely due to the scattered nature of how the Vajra have acted. So we're left to theorize why it is Frontier is being coerced into constantly doing battle with groups of Vajra and why the members of Grace are so intent in causing hatred. While the queen/king theory may be incorrect, it still seems like Grace and crew are trying to provoke something that will create the opportunity they are looking for. Something that queen/king theory also didn't touch on was why Frontier was chosen. We know that Grace and co chose Frontier because it could be easily contaminated as it was all natural...

[sucker4meltrans]

Ok so did Sheryl actually tour anywhere else? we know that Frontier was the end of her intergalactic tour. But from what we have seen in episode 15 she was downloaded into her body on the flight to Frontier.

[jenius]

Sheryl downloaded? Are you confusing Sheryl's coming out of spacefold with being downloaded? As far as we know she's "all natural"

[NoNameSt11]

Ok so did Sheryl actually tour anywhere else? we know that Frontier was the end of her intergalactic tour. But from what we have seen in episode 15 she was downloaded into her body on the flight to Frontier.

Like Jenius said, Sheryl's known for being "all natural", although if Grace has always been her informant, and Sheryl's been an experiment since she was born, the truth of that is questionable.

And even Grace said it was a Galactic tour, moving throughout the other expansion fleets that would end at Frontier. If it was a lie, she would've just said that during the recap episode.

[Kronnang Dunn]

After rewatching 16, I'm expecting the harvesting of Fold Quartz from the Vajra to turn out a lot like whale hunting.

Episode 17 will have lots of Fold Quartz...

[sucker4meltrans]

Just something from episode 15 when we see Sheryl on the Spaceliner in the chair it looked like someting from Ghost in the Shell. It just looked like Sheryl's "ghost" was downloaded into the body. If cyborgs and people with implants are the rule and Frontier is the exception then Grace and Co might have spread a virus on the GNN. Everyone in the NUNG sphere of infulence might only think they have seen Sheryl on tour. Sheryl might be completely organic but i think she is some sort of AI.

[Gubaba]

Just something from episode 15 when we see Sheryl on the Spaceliner in the chair it looked like someting from Ghost in the Shell. It just looked like Sheryl's "ghost" was downloaded into the body. If cyborgs and people with implants are the rule and Frontier is the exception then Grace and Co might have spread a virus on the GNN. Everyone in the NUNG sphere of infulence might only think they have seen Sheryl on tour. Sheryl might be completely organic but i think she is some sort of AI.

I think that was just a Space Battleship Yamato in-joke...

[DeeBot]

I always figured the "ghost sequence" was just sort of an exaggerated version of the fold effect we saw in SDF:M, where the frames kept oscillating out of phase.

If she wears those fold quartz earrings during folds, though, it might go some way towards explaining why she gets so fold sick...

[sucker4meltrans]

I still stand by my opinion that Sheryl is a genetically engineered clone and the sheryl personality was created then downloaded into the body.

[Morpheus]

I still stand by my opinion that Sheryl is a genetically engineered clone and the sheryl personality was created then downloaded into the body.

In other word, Sheryl is Sharon Apple ver. 2.0 Organic-Beta release.

[NoNameSt11]

Genetically engineered, yes. Artificially created intelligence downloaded into her body? Doubtful, seeing as how if it was a designed AI all they would've done is programmed her to sing and act nice around people but have complete obedience to Grace. Not to mention there would be a fail safe to disconnect her bodily functions and kill her.

[Macross007]

In other word, Sheryl is Sharon Apple ver. 2.0 Organic-Beta release.

Oh God, you killed me with that joke.

Edited July 30, 2008 by Macross007

[Nexx Stalker]

In other word, Sheryl is Sharon Apple ver. 2.0 Organic-Beta release.

Sharon Vista.

[NoNameSt11]

Sharon Vista.

That would be a negative, cause she'd always be rebooting and asking if it would be ok to do something.

[dreamweaver13]

That would be a negative, cause she'd always be rebooting and asking if it would be ok to do something.

hehe. now that sure doesn't sound like sheryl.

So sheryl is XP.

Ranka ("oneesan, alto, will this be ok?") is Vista. sure, she's the new thing, but is she necessarily better?

[Ork_dreadnought]

So, grace is unix? Oh, and Leon is Bill Gates.

He has the hair.

[d3v]

That would be a negative, cause she'd always be rebooting and asking if it would be ok to do something.

Nope, that would be Ranka good sir.

/adds OS to the list of things that Ranks is.

[Dio]

So... I just thought about this today when contemplating the Fold Quartz/Space Whale similarity, and jump on me please if someone has already noticed this... or jump on me for daring to make the connection, but I just had to...

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Firstly in Frontier, we have humans who have recently discovered a powerful, naturally-formed material that can greatly enhance their current technology. Use of this material seems to draw the attention of hostile aliens. It seems like a pretty cut-and-dry conflict, which turns in the humans' favor once they discover they have an ace in the hole which can musically destroy the aliens' urge to fight.

Then, around a third of the way into the show, a group of immortal, body-regenerating scientists begin to make their appearance - trying to conduct their business in the shadows, but ultimately seeking to overthrow the good humans, all for the sake of consolidating their power using the same technology-enhancing material. We discover they have no moral qualms, and their ultimate purpose is actually to strip a semi-sentient race of insectoids of this material - a powerful resource that only the aliens (thus far) have demonstrated the ability to produce.

Probably in the final third of the series, we're going to see the humans shift their focus back to the conflict with the insectoid species, concluding with everyone finally discovering how to communicate with one another, and reconciling the difference between the well-intentioned citizens and the shady, evil immortal scientists in the minds of the insectoids. During this story arc we'll have a character step to the forefront, whose primary unique features are her inhuman blood type/DNA, and her ability to ostensibly communicate with the insectoid organisms and convince them not to fight.

This may well be the series where Kawamori "takes it all back."

[DestroidDefender]

This may well be the series where Kawamori "takes it all back."

No. Good Lord lets NOT go there.

Actually you could also list all the commonalities between MacF and Mac II, but we all know he's "never seen it" wink wink nudge nudge.

With all the stuff that's been done with singing/spiritia/song energy influencing the Vajra, etc. MacII's Marduk and Emulators now seem very consistent to me with the Macross universe as a whole.

I think what I enjoy the most about MacF are the connections with the other Macross series.

[sucker4meltrans]

final episode it will be revealed that Cathy Glass is actually adopted and the daughter of the long lost Captains Hikaru Ichijo and Misa Hayase.

BOMBA!

[Strumvogel]

Damn. After watching ep17 raws I strongly suspect that Galaxy may be using the Frontier colony as a breeding coop for the Vajra for the sole purpose of harvesting the fold crystals in them. Hmm... From everything we've seen so far points to that.

[sushisystems]

Damn. After watching ep17 raws I strongly suspect that Galaxy may be using the Frontier colony as a breeding coop for the Vajra for the sole purpose of harvesting the fold crystals in them. Hmm... From everything we've seen so far points to that.

OMG I GOT IT! So Galaxy / Grace is possessed by a group of AI from another dimension who are trying to harvest Fold Quartz to feed their hunger for world domination. The only problem is that they can't do it in a sustainable way so Grace's dream is to create a Fold Quartz farm! Fold Quartz Paradise!!!

[RedWolf]

SMS is apparently a armed Fed Express when Bilrer started it. Sort of like GXP or Angel Links with pay.

With pirates and black market arms dealers in Macross Dynamite 7 I can see why this industry is needed.

I can see how Bilrer and Galaxy were involved with the 117th fleet.

Galaxy must have been the sponsor of the SDF Global.

While SMS was it's escort.

UN Spacy is more prioritized with rogue Zentradi and whatever Bodol fleet that may show up.

Indeed with fleet abandonment issues like Macross 7 SMS became a private anti-piracy group.

Guess you can classify white hats as either of the three.

UN Spacy or NUNS formal military, Galaxy Patrol or UN Spacy local cops, PMCs or security groups like SMS.

[sharky]

I always figured the "ghost sequence" was just sort of an exaggerated version of the fold effect we saw in SDF:M, where the frames kept oscillating out of phase.

If she wears those fold quartz earrings during folds, though, it might go some way towards explaining why she gets so fold sick...

Agreed, I think this sequence is just a more detail shot of what happens during a fold. That is, she is traveling through another dimension during the fold process.

[sucker4meltrans]

I still get a Ghost in the Shell vibe from that scene with Sheryl's ghost floating into her body.

Edited August 2, 2008 by sucker4meltrans

[Gubaba]

I still get a Ghost in the Shell vibe from that scene wife Sheryl's ghost floating into her body.

Watch the Space Warp episode of "Space Battleship Yamato" (ep. 3 or 4, I think...). I'm pretty sure it's a reference to that.

[DeeBot]

Having gone back to recently watch the first episode, I'm even more convinced that her floating back into her own body has no ulterior meaning. Sheryl's traveling with a good number of people, so it would be hard to be low key about any computer hookups. From what we've seen with Grace, the procedure is pretty invasive...

(Although one thing I can't decide about the scene is if she's taking a commercial transport, or if she has her own private one, and those are all her staff. Would depend on how expensive that sort of thing is in the Macross universe. Either way, seems like too many people would be in a position to snoop.)

But more importantly... what's the significance of strawberry pie?

Edited August 2, 2008 by DeeBot