About the Macross Chronicles

[Seto Kaiba]

It's just one page. So it's rather lean. If we're lucky, we'll get a B sheet.

Anything is better than nothing at all... I'll take whatever I can get if it adds to the body of knowledge we already have.

Sadly, it doesn't even give that (mind you, the vast majority of star ships in the glossary don't have dimensions listed in their definition, so it's not a big surprise). It does mention something about being the 12th fleet's flagship.

Yeah, I know, but I can hope. After all, the U.N. Spacy ships in Macross II are the only ones that don't have canon sizes... the Mardook ships all do. Having a canon number for the Macross Cannon is nice and all, but I'd have liked them to cover the Heracles, Gloria, and line battleship too, so I didn't have to come up with various ballpark estimates based on nothing more than the footage, which is kind on inconsistent in a few places. (My estimates put the standard battleship at about 900m long, and the Gloria and Heracles at between 1090m and 1300m)

[sketchley]

ジナール射出点です！発射します！

... the word "Jinaaru" is changed to "Battle Pod." ...

Hmmm... now I have to ask: how did Jinaaru (Jinar) become Gnerl? (helpful pointer: I'm reading it as either N-earl and sometimes (hard-g) n-earl)

[Gubaba]

Hmmm... now I have to ask: how did Jinaaru (Jinar) become Gnerl? (helpful pointer: I'm reading it as either N-earl and sometimes (hard-g) n-earl)

That's a good question. I'd say it has something to do with the nonsensical way the creators often Romanize Zentradi terms and names, so "Gnerl" must have appeared SOMEWHERE in Romaji...

[sketchley]

That's a good question. I'd say it has something to do with the nonsensical way the creators often Romanize Zentradi terms and names, so "Gnerl" must have appeared SOMEWHERE in Romaji...

In a strange way, the G makes a bit more sense, if read by it's name (Gee), and not it's phonic, thereby becoming gee-nerl; but the r & l? It feels like it was written by someone who has no clue about standard romanization*... which is oft the case with the so-called "romanized" Zentraadi language in Macross.**

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C5%8Dmaji

** http://macross.anime.net/feedback/index.html Best to leave this issue alone after this quick poke.

[Renato]

In a strange way, the G makes a bit more sense, if read by it's name (Gee), and not it's phonic, thereby becoming gee-nerl; but the r & l? It feels like it was written by someone who has no clue about standard romanization*... which is oft the case with the so-called "romanized" Zentraadi language in Macross.**

They were obviously intently romanized to sound alien. Why would you think they would ever go the "standard romanization" route? We would have been using terms like "Barukirii" and "Bajura" by now otherwise.

Ironically the Macross Ace Frontier programmers apparently did not know the word "Vajra" and actually did just standard-romanize them as "Bajura" in the game. Then everyone here went into a fit over how they can't spell "Vajra" correctly. You can't have it both ways!!

[sketchley]

They were obviously intently romanized to sound alien. Why would you think they would ever go the "standard romanization" route? We would have been using terms like "Barukirii" and "Bajura" by now otherwise.

Ironically the Macross Ace Frontier programmers apparently did not know the word "Vajra" and actually did just standard-romanize them as "Bajura" in the game. Then everyone here went into a fit over how they can't spell "Vajra" correctly. You can't have it both ways!!

I understand your point. Just want to point out that バルキリー & バジュラ are not the best examples, as both are borrowed terms from other languages into Japanese.

Kudos for the MAF people for getting it right!

[Renato]

I understand your point. Just want to point out that バルキリー & バジュラ are not the best examples, as both are borrowed terms from other languages into Japanese.

OK... I don't think you do understand my point. Zentradi words are also not in the Japanese language. Therefore they would be treated the same as Vajra and Valkyrie.

The only thing that is causing the confusion is the fact that they are part of a fictional language and therefore no standards exist that we can fall back on, other than whatever "official" spellings Miyatake made up, like Vrlithwai, Queadluun Rau, Nupetiet-Vergnitztsszxssz whatever.

Kudos for the MAF people for getting it right!

Er.. they didn't? That was also my point??

[sketchley]

OK... I don't think you do understand my point. Zentradi words are also not in the Japanese language. Therefore they would be treated the same as Vajra and Valkyrie.

I did get your point. However, you've attempted to expand your argument to include a ficticious language that has no equivalent in English. Vajra and Valkyrie are both terms not originating in English, but having English equivalents - the reason why things aren't written phonetically; and which is precisely why Zentraadi terms should be written phonetically, as a) it's how they're written in Japanese, and b) something that English speaking fans need not suffer through to enjoy the series.

The only thing that is causing the confusion is the fact that they are part of a fictional language and therefore no standards exist that we can fall back on, other than whatever "official" spellings Miyatake made up, like Vrlithwai, Queadluun Rau, Nupetiet-Vergnitztsszxssz whatever.

This reminds me of something that Egan Loo wrote in the Macross Compendium feedback section I pointed out earlier - the terms written are Zentraadi, but not English. Therefore, it's how the terms would be written, in Zentraadi text, and in roman characters if the Zentraadi was romanized, right? Therefore the translation of the text (aka proper English) would be a phonetic reading (and for that we have to fall back to romanized Japanese characters), and not the suppossed correct (but phonetically wrong) romanized renderings, right? Right.

Er.. they didn't? That was also my point??

Your point was that they didn't get the translation right, no? My kudos is for getting the romanization right, not for the translation.

[Renato]

I did get your point. However, you've attempted to expand your argument to include a ficticious language that has no equivalent in English. Vajra and Valkyrie are both terms not originating in English, but having English equivalents - the reason why things aren't written phonetically; and which is precisely why Zentraadi terms should be written phonetically, as a) it's how they're written in Japanese, and b) something that English speaking fans need not suffer through to enjoy the series.

They're still not originating in Japanese, though, so there is a lot of flexibility there that words like 新幹線/"Shinkansen", for example, do not have. If I was arguing for a romanization of that word into "Szhiinquanjehn", then you would have every reason to say I'm wrong, that's not how one should romanize it.

The very attribute of being a fictional language liberates Zentradi spellings from all of the "rules" of Hepburn, etc.

Having said that, the English speaking fanbase recognizes some terms more than others, e.g. everyone on MW knows what I mean when I type Queadluun Rau. Were I to type "Kedoran Ro" who apart from you, Gubaba, Vifam 7, and a handful of others would know what I'm referring to? But you seem to be championing the latter. Now, Britai and Vrlithwai (can't even be bothered to check it, sorry): Honestly, for convenience's sake, let us keep using the former, and most of us do. Now, Kamjin versus Quamzin? I think that's a 50-50 in terms of usage on these forums. Few people would write Kamujin, though.

Basically, we should use the most easily recognizable spelling for us English speaking fans, and not worry about it too much.

This reminds me of something that Egan Loo wrote in the Macross Compendium feedback section I pointed out earlier - the terms written are Zentraadi, but not English.

Agreed.

Therefore, it's how the terms would be written, in Zentraadi text, and in roman characters if the Zentraadi was romanized, right?

Agreed.

Therefore the translation of the text (aka proper English)

Proper English?? I thought we were just referring to the *names* of Zentradi weaponry/ships/stuff? Where would proper English fit into this?

would be a phonetic reading (and for that we have to fall back to romanized Japanese characters)

,

Sorry, you lost me. You just said "that's how the terms would be written if Zentradi was romanized" so why the need to romanize "phonetically"?

and not the suppossed correct (but phonetically wrong) romanized renderings, right? Right.

If you say so.... I think our logic tracks completely diverge somewhere up in those couple of lines of text there.

If the Zentradi and their language really did exist and came to Earth, we English speakers would definitely not romanize their names according to the Japanese approximations of those terms.

OK, think about it like this. Let us say you have a word like "transistor" in English. To an average Japanese person, he would write it as トランジスター in katakana. Now let us romanize that. Toranjisutaa. OK, now, we have lost a huge amount of the "real" pronunciation of the word because we have to use the *closest* sounding phonetics from the extremely limited Japanese palette of sounds. You know all this, of course.

Now, walk up to an non-Japanese-speaking English-speaker and say "Toranjisutaa". They may look at you funny but they probably will not know you are talking about transistors.

OK, SDF Macross is a show in Japanese, where the humans and aliens often speak Japanese and the voice actors are all Japanese. The sounds we HEAR -- even when the Zentran are speaking Zentradi -- are all from the 50-odd Japanese limited phonetic sounds. Don't you think it is too much of a coincidence that Zentradi language uses the same sounds as Japanese? Is it not more likely that within the Macross universe, the Zentradi are using more sounds that have to be simplified to fit into the Japanese katakana rendering in the exact same way as every other language in the world has to?

I believe that with those strange romanizations like Gnerl and Glaug (would you seriously refer to it as Guraaji? No one here would understand!), Miyatake was aiming for a katakana *approximation* of the actual Zentradi pronunciation: which itself will forever remain a mystery.

Lastly:

Your point was that they didn't get the translation right, no? My kudos is for getting the romanization right, not for the translation.

OK... There's more to that story. They "corrected" it in Macross Ultimate Frontier. It is now "Vajura". Which is wrong on BOTH counts, however you look at it. So... Yay?

Edited October 31, 2009 by Renato

[Renato]

On a different topic, issue 33 of Chronicle came with a production sheet for SDF Macross TV (which I understand is giving Gubaba headaches aplenty with its inconsistent staff credit list). There is a note on the inside front cover saying that this is meant to replace the sheet from way back in issue 13 or whatever, which was originally meant to be the first of many of short episode-by-episode summaries. This new sheet scraps those in favour of the credit list, character profiles and a brief outline of the show.

Since we had a similar episode-by-episode synopsis sheet for Frontier, it's likely that will also be scrapped and replaced with a one-sheet-only summary. I guess they realised they bit off more than they can chew in attempting to do 6 or so sheets like that for each series (and they never even started on M7!), or that those sheets were pretty much pointless, or both.

[Gubaba]

On a different topic, issue 33 of Chronicle came with a production sheet for SDF Macross TV (which I understand is giving Gubaba headaches aplenty with its inconsistent staff credit list). There is a note on the inside front cover saying that this is meant to replace the sheet from way back in issue 13 or whatever, which was originally meant to be the first of many of short episode-by-episode summaries. This new sheet scraps those in favour of the credit list, character profiles and a brief outline of the show.

Since we had a similar episode-by-episode synopsis sheet for Frontier, it's likely that will also be scrapped and replaced with a one-sheet-only summary. I guess they realised they bit off more than they can chew in attempting to do 6 or so sheets like that for each series (and they never even started on M7!), or that those sheets were pretty much pointless, or both.

Hmm...I missed the note on the inside front cover, and was trying to figure out how the two sheets went together, so thanks!

I'm kind of sorry they're giving up the earlier format, though...I liked it.

[sketchley]

They're still not originating in Japanese, though,

Macross originates in Japan, in the Japanese language, does it not? Therefore, all the terms from the ficticious language also originate in Japanese, no?

Basically, we should use the most easily recognizable spelling for us English speaking fans, and not worry about it too much.

I disagree.

Because it boils down to the source. Yes, sure, Macross Chronicle is providing a crop of English names et al in their sheets, but a lot of the other terms come from where? I'm sure a bunch of members will point out the Macross Compendium - but the major flaw of the Macross Compendium is the lack of documentation. Yes, the current wiki incarnation has take a few steps to rectify it, but one still has to check the history of each and every page, and if they're lucky the author will have provided the source.

Therefore, how can the veracity of the terminology be confirmed if it's coming from a source that has consistantly neglected documentation? How are we to know that what has been presented are the correct ways to render the terminology?

If the Zentradi and their language really did exist and came to Earth, we English speakers would definitely not romanize their names according to the Japanese approximations of those terms.

But it doesn't really exist. And the romanizations that have been provided are by people who don't fully understand the English rules of pronunciation.

Nevetheless, to humour you on the arguement of "the limits of the language the show was written in limits how the ficticious language is presented" - Star Trek provides a relevant comparision. We don't see terminology from any of the various ficticious languages written in anything but understandable English phonics.

Even when Star Trek is imported into Japan and translated, the alien terms are still rendered in as close a phonetic manner as the Japanese language allows.

Re: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A6%E3%...%83%BC%E3%83%95 ウォーフ = Worf = wo'rIv

Therefore, why do English speaking fans feel the need to put themselves through so much suffering to enjoy Macross?

Or maybe that should be, why do the Japanese creators of Macross hold English speaking fans in so much disdain as to put such obscene requirements on us to enjoy Macross? (I'm not just referring to the gross romanizations of Zentraadi terminology, but also the requirements of Inspection (Forces) having to be suplanted by Supervision, et al.)

OK... There's more to that story. They "corrected" it in Macross Ultimate Frontier. It is now "Vajura". Which is wrong on BOTH counts, however you look at it. So... Yay?

No. It's a correct English translation, but an incorrect phonetic rendering.

[sketchley]

Hmm...I missed the note on the inside front cover, and was trying to figure out how the two sheets went together, so thanks!

I'm kind of sorry they're giving up the earlier format, though...I liked it.

To be honest, I felt it was just regurjitating content already presented two or three times elsewhere. (Timeline, history, etc..) Though, the change could also have happened because the publisher felt the need to make room for more content - most likely the movie; but I'm still holding out for more video game content!

[Gubaba]

Macross originates in Japan, in the Japanese language, does it not? Therefore, all the terms from the ficticious language also originate in Japanese, no?

I disagree.

Because it boils down to the source. Yes, sure, Macross Chronicle is providing a crop of English names et al in their sheets, but a lot of the other terms come from where? I'm sure a bunch of members will point out the Macross Compendium - but the major flaw of the Macross Compendium is the lack of documentation. Yes, the current wiki incarnation has take a few steps to rectify it, but one still has to check the history of each and every page, and if they're lucky the author will have provided the source.

Therefore, how can the veracity of the terminology be confirmed if it's coming from a source that has consistantly neglected documentation? How are we to know that what has been presented are the correct ways to render the terminology?

But it doesn't really exist. And the romanizations that have been provided are by people who don't fully understand the English rules of pronunciation.

Nevetheless, to humour you on the arguement of "the limits of the language the show was written in limits how the ficticious language is presented" - Star Trek provides a relevant comparision. We don't see terminology from any of the various ficticious languages written in anything but understandable English phonics.

Even when Star Trek is imported into Japan and translated, the alien terms are still rendered in as close a phonetic manner as the Japanese language allows.

Re: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A6%E3%...%83%BC%E3%83%95 ウォーフ = Worf = wo'rIv

Therefore, why do English speaking fans feel the need to put themselves through so much suffering to enjoy Macross?

Or maybe that should be, why do the Japanese creators of Macross hold English speaking fans in so much disdain as to put such obscene requirements on us to enjoy Macross? (I'm not just referring to the gross romanizations of Zentraadi terminology, but also the requirements of Inspection (Forces) having to be suplanted by Supervision, et al.)

No. It's a correct English translation, but an incorrect phonetic rendering.

I disagree with both you AND Renato.

(First off, let me say that it's nice that the discussion here is among people who understand the thorny issue of Romanization, as opposed to having someone come in and say "It's 'Focker,' because 'Fokker' is a Robotech name" or something.)

I do agree more with Renato. While I think the idea of using direct, no-nonsense Romanizations takes a lot of (well, really all) the guesswork out of naming conventions, as Renato said, most English-speaking Macross fans would have a tough time puzzling out Rapuramizu, Nujaderu Gaa, or Guraaji. Clearly, a lot of the official spellings (like Zjentohlaudey and Vrlitwhai) are entirely impractical and worse than useless. There's also the fact that they are incomplete: we have no correspondingly odd spellings for many of the Zentradi characters and mecha.

But I think that for the average English speaker, one who doesn't know even rudimentary Japanese phonics, saying "Ekisedoru" and "Kuadoran Roo" is just as off-putting and difficult to pronounce, and it will also come out of their mouths sounding little if anything like the Japanese voice actors say it.

The solution, I think, is to come up with a Romanziation that A) sounds effective in English and B) does no violence to the Japanese pronunciation. Take for example "Buritai." You know as well as I do that the "u" sound in "Bu" gets elided, but an English-speaking, just reading the name, would no doubt put stress on that first syllable. Thus, I think "Britai" is the best way to convey the sound of the name in English. "Macross" is likewise better than "Makurosu" because the "u" in "ku" gets elided everywhere except in the opening song, and the final "u" sound always gets elided. "Macross" reads effectively and evocatively. It's accurate and it "works" artistically. Now there will always be some Romanizations that some people are particularly attached to, and sometimes they're not the best. In those cases, I'll generally discard them in favor of something more accurate.

Have you read the translation of Tomino's Gundam novels, done by Frederick R. Schodt? He gives his parameters for Romanization, and I think they're best for a work of this kind, where the names often have little connection to any "real" words in any language.

[sketchley]

The solution, I think, is to come up with a Romanziation that A) sounds effective in English and B) does no violence to the Japanese pronunciation. Take for example "Buritai." You know as well as I do that the "u" sound in "Bu" gets elided, but an English-speaking, just reading the name, would no doubt put stress on that first syllable. Thus, I think "Britai" is the best way to convey the sound of the name in English. "Macross" is likewise better than "Makurosu" because the "u" in "ku" gets elided everywhere except in the opening song, and the final "u" sound always gets elided. "Macross" reads effectively and evocatively. It's accurate and it "works" artistically. Now there will always be some Romanizations that some people are particularly attached to, and sometimes they're not the best. In those cases, I'll generally discard them in favor of something more accurate.

Have you read the translation of Tomino's Gundam novels, done by Frederick R. Schodt? He gives his parameters for Romanization, and I think they're best for a work of this kind, where the names often have little connection to any "real" words in any language.

Haven't read his novels... nevertheless, the compromise solution is intriguing. In general, I have opted for both the phonetically accurate romanization of Japanese in my translations, as well as the occasional optional romanizations (the Buritai -> Britai example).

[Gubaba]

Haven't read his novels... nevertheless, the compromise solution is intriguing. In general, I have opted for both the phonetically accurate romanization of Japanese in my translations, as well as the occasional optional romanizations (the Buritai -> Britai example).

My copies of the original edition of the Gundam novels (which had the detailed introduction) are packed away in storage, but in the omnibus reissue, he also covers the topic in an afterword....and I have that book handy, so here we go:

First he talks about the problem of unorthodox Romanizations, done by both model kit box designers and by early English-speaking fans, and said that there was no real consensus on how these terms should be spelled. Then to the heart of the matter:

"I therefore went back to the original Japanese and tried to come up with spelling which I felt (1) sounded like the original and reflected the author's intent, (2) enhanced rather than detracted from the mood of the story, and (3) would be acceptable to American readers unfamiliar with the animation. I thus spelled 'Jion' as 'Zeon,' because 'Z' has strong overtones (think of all the 'z's used in US muscle car names). 'Zion' was unacceptable because some readers might think Mr. Tomino is making a religious statement, when he is not."

It makes the whole process much more difficult, because you have to have a good ear, and a good understanding of what sounds "mean" in English...but it's actually one of my favorite parts of translating, if I can make it work. If I can't, it's just frustrating.

But the thing to remember is, these names are made-up. They're artistic. They're meant to convey an impression of what the mecha is, who the character is, what the alien race is like. And if you can convey that effectively while still staying true to the Japanese, then you've got the "official" name.

(For My Fair Minmay, I went back and forth for a long time about whether to call the sleazy record producer "Rabonsky" or "Labonsky." The "R" sounds harder, and makes him sound more threatening, the "L" sounds more European, and perhaps decadent. I finally went with the latter. If he'd put up more of a fight when Focker and the others beat him up, I might have gone with the former.)

[sketchley]

"I therefore went back to the original Japanese and tried to come up with spelling which I felt (1) sounded like the original and reflected the author's intent, (2) enhanced rather than detracted from the mood of the story, and (3) would be acceptable to American readers unfamiliar with the animation. I thus spelled 'Jion' as 'Zeon,' because 'Z' has strong overtones (think of all the 'z's used in US muscle car names). 'Zion' was unacceptable because some readers might think Mr. Tomino is making a religious statement, when he is not."

It makes the whole process much more difficult, because you have to have a good ear, and a good understanding of what sounds "mean" in English...but it's actually one of my favorite parts of translating, if I can make it work. If I can't, it's just frustrating.

Nods.

Though, in going this route, it opens up a whole new can of worms - specifically:

i) Japanese put much more importance on vowel sounds than consonants (viceversa for English speakers) [the olde オーイー vs. K-F- being able to get you a coffee in a coffee shop in the respective languages)

ii) English speakers tend to have different pronunciations, especially of vowels (see i) in not only different English speaking countries, but even parts of the same country. (drama being read drah-mah, drae-mah, and so on). [Which I think is how jinaru became Gnerl (aka Gee-nerl).

So... I'm not saying it's particularly bad to go this route, just that it's not free of pitfalls, either. (In the Zeon in the example above could be read as either a hard e followed by a reduced soft o [zi-awn], or as eo, the vowel sound in law or saw [zawn]).

[Gubaba]

Chronicle #36:

Mechanic Sheet

* Reguld

* SDF-1 Macross

* MBR-07-MkII Spartan

* SDF-1 Macross Loading Machines [???]

* Destroids

Character Sheet

* Sheryl Nome

* Zentradi Soldiers

* Ivano Geperunitchi

* Chlore

Timeline Sheet

* Operation Stargazer

History Sheet

* Omni-Directional Barrier Overload

Technology Sheet

* Variable Fighter / Defense Mechanisms

Glossary Sheet

* CVS-101 Prometheus～Gravity Control System

[azrael]

Nothing noteworthy.

Chronicle #36:

Technology Sheet

* Variable Fighter / Defense Mechanisms

ECA, pinpoint barriers, and shields?

[Seto Kaiba]

Mechanic Sheet

* Reguld

* SDF-1 Macross

* MBR-07-MkII Spartan

* SDF-1 Macross Loading Machines [???]

* Destroids

It's kind of sad that the only article on this list I'm even remotely curious about is "Macross loading machines".

Character Sheet

* Sheryl Nome

* Zentradi Soldiers

* Ivano Geperunitchi

* Chlore

Sheryl Nome's always well and good, couldn't care less 'bout another background mook sheet, or the Macross 7 stuff... but I'm somewhat curious to see what the Chlore sheet has.

Timeline Sheet

* Operation Stargazer

That sound you hear is my interest in buying the rest of Macross Chronicle plummeting. Where the hell is the variety... it's all SDF:M, 7, and Zero lately. There's a ton of Macross II stuff left uncovered (where's my Metal Siren, my Icarus, and my Valkyrie II B-sheet?), and even a decent amount of stuff from Macross Plus and Macross Frontier that could be covered instead.

History Sheet

* Omni-Directional Barrier Overload

'kay, mildly curious as to what's in this one...

Technology Sheet

* Variable Fighter / Defense Mechanisms

What? Does chaff really deserve such coverage?

Glossary Sheet

* CVS-101 Prometheus～Gravity Control System

Hmmm...

[Tochiro]

It's kind of sad that the only article on this list I'm even remotely curious about is "Macross loading machines".

Sheryl Nome's always well and good, couldn't care less 'bout another background mook sheet, or the Macross 7 stuff... but I'm somewhat curious to see what the Chlore sheet has.

That sound you hear is my interest in buying the rest of Macross Chronicle plummeting. Where the hell is the variety... it's all SDF:M, 7, and Zero lately. There's a ton of Macross II stuff left uncovered (where's my Metal Siren, my Icarus, and my Valkyrie II B-sheet?), and even a decent amount of stuff from Macross Plus and Macross Frontier that could be covered instead.

'kay, mildly curious as to what's in this one...

What? Does chaff really deserve such coverage?

Hmmm...

Theres a good 15 issues to go. It will all be covered eventually. Try to think of it less on a per issue bassis and more like 1 complete overall set (binders).

I went through a similar stage with the Gundam Fact Files - and that went for 150 issues! But the set at the end of almost 3 years was well worth it :-D

[Gubaba]

That sound you hear is my interest in buying the rest of Macross Chronicle plummeting. Where the hell is the variety... it's all SDF:M, 7, and Zero lately. There's a ton of Macross II stuff left uncovered (where's my Metal Siren, my Icarus, and my Valkyrie II B-sheet?), and even a decent amount of stuff from Macross Plus and Macross Frontier that could be covered instead.

Y'know...it's kind of unfair to criticize the Timeline Sheet for not covering Macross II, since the Timeline Sheets go chronologically. They're positively RUSHING through Macross 7.

As for the lack of other stuff, maybe they saw your comments about the VF-2SS and thought, "WHOA! One of the only two guys on Macross World who really like Macross II has threatened us with violence! Maybe we should put off doing any more until we get our last wills and testaments in order."

[Seto Kaiba]

Theres a good 15 issues to go. It will all be covered eventually. Try to think of it less on a per issue bassis and more like 1 complete overall set (binders).

Eh, I'm not so sure... what're the odds we'll just get another 15 issues of VF-1 filler?

Y'know...it's kind of unfair to criticize the Timeline Sheet for not covering Macross II, since the Timeline Sheets go chronologically. They're positively RUSHING through Macross 7.

I'm not singling the timeline sheet out... I'm talking 'bout the whole damn thing. There's more to Macross (mecha-wise) than just the VF-1, VF-0, and VF-25... and there's a hell of a lot more in the way of characters than just Minmay, Mylene, and clumps of background characters.

As for the lack of other stuff, maybe they saw your comments about the VF-2SS and thought, "WHOA! One of the only two guys on Macross World who really like Macross II has threatened us with violence! Maybe we should put off doing any more until we get our last wills and testaments in order."

Can someone check and see if Sketchley died recently? Gubaba seems to be channeling his ghost.

[Gubaba]

I'm not singling the timeline sheet out... I'm talking 'bout the whole damn thing. There's more to Macross (mecha-wise) than just the VF-1, VF-0, and VF-25... and there's a hell of a lot more in the way of characters than just Minmay, Mylene, and clumps of background characters.

Well...they've done all the Macross II characters except Wendy Ryder. We *might* be done with the Mardook mecha, there will probably be one or two more Civilian mecha sheets, and definitely four more U.N.S. mecha sheets.

I hope they'll include it in the History Sheets, but I kind of wonder at this point...

Can someone check and see if Sketchley died recently? Gubaba seems to be channeling his ghost.

Which brings up something I've been wondering...where's March? I haven't seen him around in a while...

[Seto Kaiba]

Well...they've done all the Macross II characters except Wendy Ryder. We *might* be done with the Mardook mecha, there will probably be one or two more Civilian mecha sheets, and definitely four more U.N.S. mecha sheets.

"Might be"? Unless I'm forgetting something they've only covered TWO... the ships of the fleet, and the Gigamesh. What about the Mardook's Zentradi-use battle pods, powered suits, and that unnamed variable mecha from the last two eps? We ought to have AT LEAST four more U.N. Spacy mechanic sheets and possibly one civilian mechanic sheet coming. They have yet to cover the Gloria, the standard battleship, the rescue ship, the remodeled SDF-1 Macross, the VF-2SS w/ Super Armed Packs (B-sheet), the VF-2JA, the Metal Siren w/ replica, the VF-XX Zentradi Valkyrie, the five new destroid models, and all the background and civilian vehicles like Hibiki's motorcycle, Nex and Sylvie's cars, that VTOL ambulance plane, the shuttle Hibiki and Ishtar take to the moon, those roving cameras used during the Moon Festival, etc.

The way I see it, that'll probably be maybe two more Mardook mecha sheets, two more U.N. Spacy ship sheets, three more VF mechanic sheets, maybe one four-page spread for the destroids and VF-XX, and a second four-page spread for all the remaining civilian stuff.

I hope they'll include it in the History Sheets, but I kind of wonder at this point...

If they do, you can bet it'll be in the LAST issue or two.

Which brings up something I've been wondering...where's March? I haven't seen him around in a while...

I talked to him on WLM a couple days ago, but I forget why he couldn't get online... I think it was computer trouble.

[sketchley]

Can someone check and see if Sketchley died recently? Gubaba seems to be channeling his ghost.

There's only one response:

I have no fear that there will be more Macross II content. Though I have a hunch that it'll be a whole bunch on one or two sheets.

As for next, next issue - I wonder what the Destroid is about. A second sheet for the MF Destroid?

[Seto Kaiba]

There's only one response:

Really? I could've sworn it was something to do with throwing holy water and shouting "THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU! THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!" or something along those lines.

I have no fear that there will be more Macross II content. Though I have a hunch that it'll be a whole bunch on one or two sheets.

As for next, next issue - I wonder what the Destroid is about. A second sheet for the MF Destroid?

Now that you've mentioned it... that "destroids" sheet is probably the Macross II destroids. They've already given pretty thorough coverage to the main flavors of destroid from SDF:M and DYRL, and they'd probably call the Cheyenne and/or Cheyenne II by name. The only group they haven't touched on is the AU destroids.

[sketchley]

Really? I could've sworn it was something to do with throwing holy water and shouting "THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU! THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!" or something along those lines.

Which is exactly what Mr. Yellow shirt is saying.

Now that you've mentioned it... that "destroids" sheet is probably the Macross II destroids. They've already given pretty thorough coverage to the main flavors of destroid from SDF:M and DYRL, and they'd probably call the Cheyenne and/or Cheyenne II by name. The only group they haven't touched on is the AU destroids.

That does make sense. A lot more than an MF Destroid* B page would.

*FYI: the MF Destroid is called "Destroid". Cheyenne II appears to be a nickname, and not the official name.

[sketchley]

#35 review:

Mechanic:

VF-1A B sheet. Finally some attention is given to the AMM-1 missiles (though not enough...) 1/3 the reverse is the Zentraadi uniform disguised VF-1A.

Macross 7 B sheet. Bridge (there's 4 levels?!) and the Diamond Force launch catapult.

FBz-99G: feels like they've crammed the transformation sequence on in the last 1/3... ah well. Good news is that they've clarified the design of the VAB-2D: (fighter mode picture here: http://unsd.macrossroleplay.org/vab-2.html Presumably the following image is the correct battroid, too)

Timeline #43: I was a bit surprised to see "The Galaxy is Calling" plopped in, but it makes sense. Reverse has something about the Fleet of Strongest Women as an extra report (technically it's about the the "gone astray" Zentraadi...) Maybe next sheet will have something about Fleet of Strongest Women?

Tech sheet VF 01o: VF History 3: Focused mostly on the AVF plan and fighters, with a bit on their derivatives, as well as the Ghost X-9. The 2030s era VF development shows up as an extra report (dang... was looking forward to it... but as only the VF-17 and VB-06 are mentioned... probably not worth a whole page.) One more extra report on the post 2040's main craft: the VF-171 and AIF-7S Ghost.

Worldguide 19A History: 2 pages! Starts with a kick-ass picture of a city in the shadow of a crashed Zentraadi ship. The timeline on it only goes up until 2010... but the reverse of the first page mentions something about the Earth as pictured in the in-series movie DYRL is how the Earth really looked in February, 2031, when the movie was released (if I'm reading it correctly). There's some interesting looking paragraphs on Eurasia, Africa, North and South America, and the Pacific... along with brief mentions of the moon, Mars, Pluto, and Space Colonies (pictured is the one orbiting Earth in the MF prologue. What, no space colony bunches??) Reverse of second page is about the known cities. Mostly from SDFM, but also an extra report on Macross city as seen in M+ and MF.

Extra Sheet: production data: probably the most surprising sheet for me. It's continuing the same "all of one series on one page" format as with SDFM from #32. What surprised me is that the front is M+ and M+ Movie addition. The rear is M0! Hopefully with the reduction in pages needed for the series, we'll get a bunch more content... like non-animated series content? More Game content! More!

The preview for #36 has the Mayor and his aide (?) from SDFM, yet no mention of either in the actual contents! The Spartan is pictured, but what the Destroid page is about, is not clarified.

Gubaba, you've gotta translate more technical stuff. Your "SDF-1 Macross loading machines" should actually be "SDF-1 Macross Carrier-based aircraft".

Lastly, the reverse cover has, in big English:

"WELCOME!

Macross Frontier Convoy

The Formo Blanch* of

famima.com"

*Hee hee. Should be branch. Interesting how they choose the convoy translation of 船団.

[RedWolf]

Macross 7 B sheet. Bridge (there's 4 levels?!)

Well they have to put the rest of Exsedol somewhere.

[Gubaba]

Gubaba, you've gotta translate more technical stuff. Your "SDF-1 Macross loading machines" should actually be "SDF-1 Macross Carrier-based aircraft".

Enh, I got lazy and used Google. I generally do the Chronicle contents Wednesday morning before I leave for work...haste is necessary, so if I come across something I can't read outright, I just plug it in and hope for the best.

But you're right...I need to get over my fear of the technical stuff. At the very least, I'd have an impressive vocabulary if I ever pursued a job in the Japanese areospace industry...

[sketchley]

Don't go google. Go Nifty: http://honyaku.nifty.com/

Time and time again, it's provided the most accurate (maybe that should say: comprehensible English) translations from those out there. Of course there are times that it spits out gobblety-gook, and other times it goes for the less technical/military version of a term, but a thurough double-checking by Jim Breen never hurts: http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C

Nevertheless, there are limits. The prime ones being the tendency of Japanese to reduce kanji clusters to smaller version... and I've had to hunt down a couple of terms for associated images. Luckily that's only been limited to only two or three terms.

Oh, before I forget: don't feed the machine translators big sentences. They much those up darn good. Breaking them at commas is a good place. Clauses is another.

Edited November 12, 2009 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

Just got my HMV order containing Macross Chronicle issues 30-35 this afternoon... kind of underwhelmed by a lot of the Macross 7 coverage, but then again I never really liked Macross 7's mechanical designs much. The DYRL and Macross Frontier stuff is damn nice, particularly the VB-6 Konig Monster sheet. I was also pleasantly surprised to see that what Sketchley told me was no exaggeration, Macross II is getting some decent coverage on the glossary sheets if nothing else.

So far, my only complaint with that is that they keep getting the year the OVA is set in wrong. I guess they're either not referencing Kenichi Yatagai's interviews or Big West's pre-Macross II chronology, because they keep trying to say the Macross II OVA is set in 2090, when it's supposed to be set in 2092. The numbering isn't coincidental by any means... 10 years separate Macross II from the previous Zentradi attack for the 10th Anniversary OVA, and if you subtract 100 years from the dates of both, you get 1982 and 1992, the years Macross and Macross II came out in. There's really no room for debate on the matter, since the official chronology dates the previous Zentradi attack to 2082, and in-series dialogue dates Macross II to ten years after that. Where they're getting 2090 is beyond me, I guess they're just adding 80 to the end of Space War 1 in 2010, which is, I suppose better than US Renditions and Palladium measuring from the START of Space War 1 and coming up with 2089.

Also, yeah... that pic of the Zentradi ship and the city built around it is DAMN cool... though what got me drooling was that absolutely gorgeous picture of the VF-4 in flight. I'm TOTALLY going to scan that and blow it up to wallpaper size for my big monitor.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Gubaba]

Also, yeah... that pic of the Zentradi ship and the city built around it is DAMN cool... though what got me drooling was that absolutely gorgeous picture of the VF-4 in flight. I'm TOTALLY going to scan that and blow it up to wallpaper size for my big monitor.

Funnily enough, I was planning on doing exactly the same thing in a few months. Currently, I have the shot of the VF-1A getting the FAST packs attached to it (from the Variable Fighter Technology Sheet B). I really like Tomotake Kinoshita's art...it strike a nice balance between making everything look almost exactly like it does in the anime, but getting almost photorealistic at the same time. It's a perfectly gratifying illustration style for mecha stuff.

[Graham]

What? Does chaff really deserve such coverage?

There's more to VF defensive systems than just Chaff.

There's, chaff, flares, Pin-Point Barrier, defensive (anti-missile) head lasers, SWAG energy converting armor and the VF-25 super shoulder missile pods are referred to as 'close-in weapons systems', which if following the real-life example implies a defensive nature.

This tech sheet, if it goes into detail, could potentially be fascinating to mech-heads like me.

Graham