About the Macross Chronicles

[sketchley]

'cause it could also be the Rapu Ramisu ship.

[Gubaba]

'cause it could also be the Rapu Ramisu ship.

Enh, once they started going out, Kamjin probably took over her ship, too.

"Honey, can I take your cruiser out for a spin tonight? Mine's still busted from that Daedalus Attack a year ago."

[Morpheus]

Interesting VF-0 lineart from this issue especially the cockpit during batroid mode. There also a size comparison diagram between SDF-1, Megaroad, City-7, and Island-1. Let see if I can pull my scanner out tonight and make some scanning.

[Graham]

Can't wait for the VF-25S issue. Hope we get some previously unpublished line art and full tech specs.

I'm hoping for at least 6 issues devoted to all the various VF-25 variants.

The lack of decent mecha pics and info in the 3 official Frontier books published so far is extremely disappointing.

Graham

[Graham]

One thing I'm curious about is whether the Chronicles will cover the events and mecha of VF-X, VF-X2 and M3 as all three games are/were previously considered canon.

It would be sad and mean the Chonicles is far from complete if these events and mecha were omitted.

I for one really want them to include mecha pages on the Crusader, Cutlass, Vampire & Variable Glaug.

Graham

[Gubaba]

One thing I'm curious about is whether the Chronicles will cover the events and mecha of VF-X, VF-X2 and M3 as all three games are/were previously considered canon.

It would be sad and mean the Chonicles is far from complete if these events and mecha were omitted.

I for one really want them to include mecha pages on the Crusader, Cutlass, Vampire & Variable Glaug.

Graham

According to the "Series Guide" pages that come with Issue 1, they have a so-far unused category for "Other," which they say will be for Mechanic and Character Sheets from games and other things. The examples they cite which will be covered are the VF-14 Vampire, Battle 13, and the Neo-Glaug.

So I think it's safe to assume that all the game stuff will get covered...I'm less certain about the SK Design Works VFs.

[azrael]

I think the main focus will be on the animated works (SDFM, DYRL?, FB2012, II, +, 7/D7, 0, F). The other productions like the games will probably get smaller 1-2 issue long sections.

[Graham]

According to the "Series Guide" pages that come with Issue 1, they have a so-far unused category for "Other," which they say will be for Mechanic and Character Sheets from games and other things. The examples they cite which will be covered are the VF-14 Vampire, Battle 13, and the Neo-Glaug.

Cool, I didn't notice it mentioned that in issue 1.

Graham

[sketchley]

The top view of the VF-0 in battroid mode is pretty groovy.

So is the size chart. BTW, it's not a comparison of the SDF-1, Megaroad-01, City 7 and Island 1. It's マクロス級,メガロード級, 新マクロス級, & アイランド・クラスター級; both City and Battle sections for the later two.

For the Japanese illiterate, that's: Macross Class, Megaroad (Megarodo) Class, New Macross Class, & Island Cluster (Airando Kurasutaa) Class.

[AcroRay]

It seems recent MACROSS-related publishing is more focused on getting out a colorful product than producing what we've - well, some of us, at least - grew used to back in the 80s. It would be nice to get just one or two really nice TIA's or a Perfect Memory out of the series.

Considering digital layout & publishing methods, would it really be so difficult?

But I guess there's more money to be made in shot-gunning the market with lots of little products while their attentions are still on the show.

Edited November 13, 2008 by AcroRay

[Zinjo]

It seems recent MACROSS-related publishing is more focused on getting out a colorful product than producing what we've - well, some of us, at least - grew used to back in the 80s. It would be nice to get just one or two really nice TIA's or a Perfect Memory out of the series.

Considering digital layout & publishing methods, would it really be so difficult?

But I guess there's more money to be made in shot-gunning the market with lots of little products while their attentions are still on the show.

When I get my copies of Macross Frontier Materials, I'll let everyone know if this is the definitive line art book or not...

[Gubaba]

Well, I just got the latest issue, and it confirms the Frontier novelization: Michael is part Zolan. So I guess the information from "Zomeo and Zoliet" that humans and Zolans can't reproduce is no longer true...

[azrael]

Well, I just got the latest issue, and it confirms the Frontier novelization: Michael is part Zolan. So I guess the information from "Zomeo and Zoliet" that humans and Zolans can't reproduce is no longer true...

Well, that's something. Cuz 2059:Memories thinks he's got Zentradi blood in him. Unless he's part Zolan, part Zentradi....

[Morpheus]

Too many discrepancy on several thing (dimension, background, etc), I wonder if the writer of each magazine had any communication before publishing the materials which supposed to be official.

Does Egan got any word on how he will update the compendium regarding the new informations we got from the magazines?

[RedWolf]

Well, that's something. Cuz 2059:Memories thinks he's got Zentradi blood in him. Unless he's part Zolan, part Zentradi....

SoHumans and Zolans can't make babies but Zolans and Zentradi can?

What are Zentradi breeding stock? Oh wait... (Has sudden thoughts about Millia)

[Morpheus]

SoHumans and Zolans can't make babies but Zolans and Zentradi can?

What are Zentradi breeding stock? Oh wait... (Has sudden thoughts about Millia)

Well Miriya got Yoshinol (the old fan art pic), with the trademark "Instant child, just add water"

[VF5SS]

Oh Michel is probably just sterile like any hybrid. Maybe the lack of potential children is the real issue with Zomeo and Zoliett.

[Gubaba]

Well, that's something. Cuz 2059:Memories thinks he's got Zentradi blood in him. Unless he's part Zolan, part Zentradi....

Sorry...I should've actually FINISHED reading the paragraph...it says that one of his parents has some Zolan in him or her, but there's also some Zentradi blood from a generation or two back.

Man, the Protoculture ruins in Mac7 that was looking for "the Sign of Peace" would've orgasmed uncontrollably if Michael had shown up...

By the way, for trasnliteration purposes, are we all agreed that his proper name is "Michael" but his nickname is "Michel"...?

[RedWolf]

Sorry...I should've actually FINISHED reading the paragraph...it says that one of his parents has some Zolan in him or her, but there's also some Zentradi blood from a generation or two back.

Man, the Protoculture ruins in Mac7 that was looking for "the Sign of Peace" would've orgasmed uncontrollably if Michael had shown up...

By the way, for trasnliteration purposes, are we all agreed that his proper name is "Michael" but his nickname is "Michel"...?

Guess Michel had a hidden Protoculture genetic imperative to procreate but that hit a snag when it comes to loli.

Must be healthy child bearing females huh?

Edited November 14, 2008 by RedWolf

[azrael]

Sorry...I should've actually FINISHED reading the paragraph...it says that one of his parents has some Zolan in him or her, but there's also some Zentradi blood from a generation or two back.

Man, the Protoculture ruins in Mac7 that was looking for "the Sign of Peace" would've orgasmed uncontrollably if Michael had shown up...

Hmmm...who would have guess my sarcastic comment actually was true...

By the way, for trasnliteration purposes, are we all agreed that his proper name is "Michael" but his nickname is "Michel"...?

Yep. We also have Alto's "Mikhail" but I think that's an Alto-exclusive and can probably ignore that one.

[sketchley]

Play it safe. Do the direct romanization of his name: Mihaeru Buran.

(...)

By the way, for trasnliteration purposes, are we all agreed that his proper name is "Michael" but his nickname is "Michel"...?

[Gubaba]

Play it safe. Do the direct romanization of his name: Mihaeru Buran.

"Mihaeru" and "Misheeru"? I understand why you're doing it that way, but I'd rather not. "Michael Blanc" appears in the show, it's the ONLY romanization of his name that appears, and it also makes sense. Not to use it seems needlessly pedantic.

I'm asking not so much for Chronicle translation, but for the Frontier subs that Xeros is working on, wondering whether, when people call him "Misheeru," to romanize it as "Michel" or keep it "Michael."

[Renato]

But his name is never actually pronounced like the English "Michael" at any point in the show. Like Sketchley said, it is ミハイル, which is the Russian version of Michael, "Mikhail" as in Mikhail Gorbachev. Here's the Japanese wikipedia page, as you can see the katakana is the same.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9F%E3%...%83%A7%E3%83%95

In instances where his name is pronounced ミシェル, then it reverts to the French which is Michel. Since in the show it is never pronounced マイケル, as in Michael Jackson, my advice would be to drop the "Michael" romanization altogether because essentially you would be complicating the problem by adding a third pronounciation which doesn't even appear in the show.

[Gubaba]

But his name is never actually pronounced like the English "Michael" at any point in the show. Like Sketchley said, it is ミハイル, which is the Russian version of Michael, "Mikhail" as in Mikhail Gorbachev. Here's the Japanese wikipedia page, as you can see the katakana is the same.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9F%E3%...%83%A7%E3%83%95

In instances where his name is pronounced ミシェル, then it reverts to the French which is Michel. Since in the show it is never pronounced マイケル, as in Michael Jackson, my advice would be to drop the "Michael" romanization altogether because essentially you would be complicating the problem by adding a third pronounciation which doesn't even appear in the show.

I thought that the name pronounced "Mikhail" could also be spelled "Michael," but maybe I was wrong. Unfortunately, it's what shows up on his gravestone...

(And yes, I know errors happen all the time in animation, like Riber/Liver and the gravestone in I-forget-which Bubblegum Crisis episode, but Frontier seemed to take more care which such matters...Ranka never once appeared as Lanka, and they even went to far as to correct "Noam" to "Nome" in the second OP.)

Although, I have to say that for subbing purposes, I like "Mikhail" and "Michel" better, since it shows a clear distinction, rather than "Michael" and "Michel," which might leave a lot of viewers thinking that it was just a typo.

[Zinjo]

But his name is never actually pronounced like the English "Michael" at any point in the show. Like Sketchley said, it is ミハイル, which is the Russian version of Michael, "Mikhail" as in Mikhail Gorbachev. Here's the Japanese wikipedia page, as you can see the katakana is the same.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9F%E3%...%83%A7%E3%83%95

In instances where his name is pronounced ミシェル, then it reverts to the French which is Michel. Since in the show it is never pronounced マイケル, as in Michael Jackson, my advice would be to drop the "Michael" romanization altogether because essentially you would be complicating the problem by adding a third pronounciation which doesn't even appear in the show.

Maybe so, but that can be attributed to a language that is not familiar with the pronounciation of a foreign name. Hell Eureka was pronounded Erireka in Eureka 7. Only one VA actually knew how to pronounce it right and she had a bit part half way through the show.

Both Michael and Eureka have non-phonetic spellings and could easily confuse a non-English speaker... so the VA's did the best they could with how they thought the name should be pronounced. Have to give the writers credit for not sticking to Japanese names in the show...

[TheLoneWolf]

The Compendium lists his name as "Michael". Looking at the history for that entry, it appears the Egan Loo (MacrossWikiAdmin?) intentionally changed the name from "Mikhail Buran" to "Michael Blanc."

Interestingly enough, even though Egan lists his name as "Michael Blanc," he uses the ミハイル (Mikhail) katakana.

[Renato]

Maybe so, but that can be attributed to a language that is not familiar with the pronounciation of a foreign name. Hell Eureka was pronounded Erireka in Eureka 7. Only one VA actually knew how to pronounce it right and she had a bit part half way through the show.

Both Michael and Eureka have non-phonetic spellings and could easily confuse a non-English speaker... so the VA's did the best they could with how they thought the name should be pronounced. Have to give the writers credit for not sticking to Japanese names in the show...

I disagree on many points.

1) "Michael" in English is not an unfamiliar name in Japan. Therefore it would be recognised and pronounced as such without too much hassle, had that actually been the name. EDIT -- I remembered, there is a character called Michael in Macross 7. See the difference in pronounciation between his name and the MacFrontier character?

2) Nothing has a non-phonetic spelling in Japanese. Everything can be broken down into phonetic katakana or hiragana. Precisely why they don't care much about romanisation, and why we're having all this trouble in the first place. You.. don't actually think the character names in the scripts are actually written in Roman letters, do you?

3) By the way, Eureka is not originally an English name either, so though our pronounciation of it is "You-Ree-Kah", in Japanese it is closer to the Greek "Eh-ooh-reh-kah", or more accurately, エウレカ. Dunno where you got that "Erireka" from, I suggest you listen more closely. Nobody mispronounced anything.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Renato

[Renato]

The Compendium lists his name as "Michael". Looking at the history for that entry, it appears the Egan Loo (MacrossWikiAdmin?) intentionally changed the name from "Mikhail Buran" to "Michael Blanc."

Interestingly enough, even though Egan lists his name as "Michael Blanc," he uses the ミハイル (Mikhail) katakana.

Great.

[sketchley]

With Renato.

And Re: the compendium - ultimately that resource comes down to one man's opinion on how something should be translated into English (I'll leave that up to you readers to decide whether that's Egan Loo or Shouji Kawamori! )

Not to mention that I know of at least one case where Egan Loo has been told by one of the producers or creators of Macross to use completely different terminology when translating (ie: The kanji used in Supervision Army is actually Inspection Army. Supervision is an entirely different kanji.)

So, as I said earlier, side step it all and do a direct romanization.

[Gubaba]

I disagree on many points.

1) "Michael" in English is not an unfamiliar name in Japan. Therefore it would be recognised and pronounced as such without too much hassle, had that actually been the name. EDIT -- I remembered, there is a character called Michael in Macross 7. See the difference in pronounciation between his name and the MacFrontier character?

2) Nothing has a non-phonetic spelling in Japanese. Everything can be broken down into phonetic katakana or hiragana. Precisely why they don't care much about romanisation, and why we're having all this trouble in the first place. You.. don't actually think the character names in the scripts are actually written in Roman letters, do you?

3) By the way, Eureka is not originally an English name either, so though our pronounciation of it is "You-Ree-Kah", in Japanese it is closer to the Greek "Eh-ooh-reh-kah", or more accurately, エウレカ. Dunno where you got that "Erireka" from, I suggest you listen more closely. Nobody mispronounced anything.

I still think the name "Michael" can be pronounced "Mikhail," but as I consider the topic more, I find myself leaning towards your side, despite the name "Michael" appearing in the show itself.

But then, I think Manga Ent. dropped the ball in naming the designer of the YF-19 "Yang," when it seems MUCH more likely to me that he has the quite common Scandinavian name "Jan" (pronounced "Yan"), and I alwways liked "Miria" better than "Millia," since the letter R has a harder, tougher sound in English than L.

But all of this is getting rather far away from discussing the Chronicles...

I have to say that I'm getting a little dispirited in my trasnlations, since it doesn't seem that there's much that's really revelatory in any of the pages that I've translated so far. The Timeline Sheets are interesting as far as Zero is concerned, since they differ from the Compendium timeline; they also unambiguously state that Shins' VF-0 emitted a blue glow and then disappeared, disproving the "It was All Metaphorical" theory; the Extra Report in the Shao Pai Long History Sheet mentions a number of (I believe) previously unmentioned Propaganda Movies made aboard the SDF-1, like "The Samurai of Space" and "The Miraculous Battle Operation: Escape from Mars Base!"; there's the mention of the SDFN Series, like (I presume) the SDFN-04 Global; other than that, it seems like it's first and foremost a consolidation of previously known information, rather than anything new.

Which makes translating it seem like a lot of pain for not much gain. I'm not giving up yet, but I am beginning to wonder if my time might not be better served by scanning through the pages to find the nuggets of useful information rather than trying to come up with nice, readable translations.

Let me know what you think.

[valkyrie13]

1) "Michael" in English is not an unfamiliar name in Japan. Therefore it would be recognised and pronounced as such without too much hassle, had that actually been the name. EDIT -- I remembered, there is a character called Michael in Macross 7. See the difference in pronounciation between his name and the MacFrontier character?

Not to wander off topic too much but let's not forget that English is not the only language that uses the Roman alphabet... French, Spanish, Italian, German, just to name a few. Wouldn't "Michael" read in German sound something like "Mikhail" or "Mihael"? Note that the English influence into Japan is only a relatively recent post WWII turn of events. Prior to that, Japan's exposure to the western world came from its contact with the Portugese in the 15~16th century. Post WWI, Japan had very close ties with Germany from which it imported weapons technology as well as its legal system.

[RedWolf]

A SDFN series? Cool

Imagine ARMD attacks.

I can see a Macross Class as a flagship escort ship for Megaroad colonies.

[Graham]

While the timeline and other stuff is nice. My personal preference, would be for the all non-VF-1 mecha pages to be translated first.

Just my 2 cents.

Graham

[sketchley]

(...) Prior to that, Japan's exposure to the western world came from its contact with the Portugese in the 15~16th century. Post WWI, Japan had very close ties with Germany from which it imported weapons technology as well as its legal system.

Don't forget limited Dutch contacts during the Edo era (in some cases "Dutch studies" means "foreign studies"!) Ties with Germany start with the Meiji Restoration. A lot of medical words still being used are from German.

Anyhow, Gubaba - perhaps it's time to approach Chronicles as I do? A Japanese learning aid, and any translations being a byproduct.

As I'm almost finished (and going crazy) with the technical sheet, I think I'm leaning towards one of the much easier looking non-VF mecha sheets. The cars one from issue 9...

Edited November 18, 2008 by sketchley

[Mr March]

Which makes translating it seem like a lot of pain for not much gain. I'm not giving up yet, but I am beginning to wonder if my time might not be better served by scanning through the pages to find the nuggets of useful information rather than trying to come up with nice, readable translations.

Let me know what you think.

I feared this would happen, but I didn't want to say anything since it's not my place to tell people what to translate and what not to translate. I'm thankful for anything that gets translated. The alternative isn't much fun to consider.

But since you are now asking, I'd like to mirror Graham's post and say I'd want anything and everything mecha and/or technology to be translated. I know you might be rolling your eyes at me and saying "yeah, well I can guess on my own what YOU would want Mr. Macross Mecha Manual" , but I'd ask you to just think about it. Aside from the Chronology/Glossary/Encyclopedia information of the Macross universe, the most often requested and referenced information is that for all the mecha and technology. If the Chronicle detail for the Chronology/Glossary/Encyclopedia information is largely just repeated, the mecha and technology seems like the natural priority.

The Chronicle has already provided new statistical information on the Oberth, the Macross Cannon, the Fan Racer, and many others. Hell, we've actually been given an explosive yield for early reaction weapons in the Chronicle entry for the Oberth Class Destroyer, something I never thought they would ever publish.

I say go for the mech'n'tech. That's how I see it. Even though I'm biased, I'm not necessarily wrong