wolfx Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 meh, some of those 'copies' are really stretching... and some of the 'origin' pieces I've heard before... some of it is very similar, like the tom waits stuff. I wonder though, given how incestuous western music is... again, please see hans zimmer, john williams, all rap stars, nearly all metal, nearly all R&B, pop, trance, drum and bass... I wonder how much of this is driven by good old fashion jealousy? I think most of the songs on the roll there were pretty darn blatant, even to the point of vocals. The Bad Dog No Biscuits one came to mind where the vocalist recites some country names. (or was it Mushroom Samba) I'm not sure why this comes as a surprise to some. Yoko Kanno is primarily a music producer much in the same way as the likes of Paul Oakenfold. It is Yoko Kanno's ear for building new music from existing arrangements that makes her amazing. She is known as much for her skill at fusing her own musical sensibilities into a wide variety of other genres as she is for her own original tracks. It may be overstating her resume somewhat, but Yoko Kanno is very much like other virtuoso producers such as Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois. Kanno is fantastic and deserves her credit in my opinion. Similar chord progressions and arrangements have been around for sometime. But those music in the vid seemed like a direct copy-pasta. And like i mentioned above, even to the point of vocals! I thought that Yoko Kanno composed all those music herself but it doesn't seem to be the case so i dunno why everyone says "this is ok and normal" but to me it feels like a big slap in the face. Or maybe i'm just being melodramatic. Those 3 vids are like less than 1% of her total work.... I'm not sure how many % of her work....but these are some high profile works like Bebop, Wolf's Rain and GITS SAC. A website compiling the list of the stuff. http://yokokanno.ojaru.jp/ And seems this was old common knowledge. http://www.fictionjunction.be/2006/10/20/t...out-yoko-kanno/
eugimon Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) like usual, you're being melodramatic honestly, I don't get the hate. The only thing I can imagine is that people though yoko kanno was some sort of uber genius who can churn out CD after CD of varied music ranging from jazz, experimental, classical, drum and bass, electronica, blue grass, folk (western and japanese)... am I missing anything? Again.. i really don't see her doing anything that different from other composers. I agree it would be nice if she cited sources that she/they draw from. Edited June 6, 2008 by eugimon
Mr March Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) Similar chord progressions and arrangements have been around for sometime. But those music in the vid seemed like a direct copy-pasta. And like i mentioned above, even to the point of vocals! I thought that Yoko Kanno composed all those music herself but it doesn't seem to be the case so i dunno why everyone says "this is ok and normal" but to me it feels like a big slap in the face. Or maybe i'm just being melodramatic. I don't think you're being melodramatic. You might be feeling Kanno has feet of clay, but like I said, that's going overboard. Covers happen all the time. I'm not defending or making excuses for the practice, only offering some perspective. I certainly don't believe Kanno's entire body of work should be somehow dismissed because she covered a few songs. I've listened to a lot of Kanno's music and I can honestly say most of it is original, at least to me. I do listen to Lunatic Calm and I recognized the connection to Touching the Sky (which I believe I've mentioned before) but big deal. Look at tunes like Feeling Good, or Helter Skelter or All Along The Watchtower. Is it only safe to cover a song if it's already been done at least a dozen times before? If Kanno's entire body of work, or a significant portion of it, were blatantly lifted without any musical reinvention, then I'd be the first to bash her. As is, she's awesome Edited June 6, 2008 by Mr March
Gubaba Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I think the rip-offs are kind of fun...it's like getting an in-joke when you realize, for example, that "Ask DNA" is based on "Where It's At" or "Call Me Call Me" is the spitting image of "Bittersweet Symphony." Hell, it's one of the main reasons I love Puffy (Amiyumi, not the rapper) so much...each one of the early singles is finely honed from pieces of other songs. It's a quick way to make an instant bond with a song, and adds a certain appealling bratiness to the proceedings.
stray Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 At least she's not P.Diddy. Switching gears, something about the 3 (Sheryl on stage) songs just felt... overproduced. Don't be late is solid, but Fanclub Night just does not do it for me... I think it's that drum kick. I dunno. The breakdowns on that and What 'bout my Star just bother me somehow. I think the drums are just borderline happy hardcore or something. Sadly I don't know if anything good has ever come out of Japan with a 4 on the floor beat. I can't take anything away from May'n though, and Infinity and Diamond Crevasse are still awesome in extended form.
Gubaba Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 At least she's not P.Diddy. Switching gears, something about the 3 (Sheryl on stage) songs just felt... overproduced. Don't be late is solid, but Fanclub Night just does not do it for me... I think it's that drum kick. I dunno. The breakdowns on that and What 'bout my Star just bother me somehow. I think the drums are just borderline happy hardcore or something. Sadly I don't know if anything good has ever come out of Japan with a 4 on the floor beat. I can't take anything away from May'n though, and Infinity and Diamond Crevasse are still awesome in extended form. My only problem with the "Sheryl On Stage" tracks is the same problem I had with Fire Bomber...they don't sound like live recordings. I think the songs themselves are fabulous, but would it really be so tough to put some concert hall ambiance, echo, and distortion on the tracks?
Major Focker Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Mr. March you weren't by any chance pertaining to DMB and All Along the Watchtower? i'm curious to know where it was inspired from or what was inspired by it. i enjoyed the 3 comparison vids, and while i did find a couple of the songs (particularly mushroom) were too close for my own personal comfort, that didn't stop me from being more amazed at the vastness of the musical ground kanno has covered (pardon the pun), and how she built from them. in many cases i've ended up preferring her work to the inspiration sources, as oft times she made them so much richer. the drums in Cyberbird being a good example. now i'm off hunting down the "source" songs in the vids. if there is one thing that's undeniable, it's that kanno has good tastes
Mr March Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 All Along The Watchtower was originally a Bob Dylan song and has since his time become a rock staple. It's been covered by numerous bands including Jimi Hendrix and Dave Matthews. Though some fans opinions may vary, I really like the U2 cover of Watchtower
Major Focker Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 thanks mr. march. now i do seem to recall i had a U2 B-sides album. hope it's there.
wolfx Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I don't think you're being melodramatic. You might be feeling Kanno has feet of clay, but like I said, that's going overboard. Covers happen all the time. I'm not defending or making excuses for the practice, only offering some perspective. I certainly don't believe Kanno's entire body of work should be somehow dismissed because she covered a few songs. I've listened to a lot of Kanno's music and I can honestly say most of it is original, at least to me. I do listen to Lunatic Calm and I recognized the connection to Touching the Sky (which I believe I've mentioned before) but big deal. Look at tunes like Feeling Good, or Helter Skelter or All Along The Watchtower. Is it only safe to cover a song if it's already been done at least a dozen times before? If Kanno's entire body of work, or a significant portion of it, were blatantly lifted without any musical reinvention, then I'd be the first to bash her. As is, she's awesome I think there's a difference between covers and a ripoff. Covers retain name of song being covered or at least credits the original song to the original composer/singer/publisher. Kanno didn't credit any of them it would seem but someone mentioned this doesn't require a lawsuit as there were slight changes in the music thus it wasn't plagiarism? About a few years back a bunch of anime fans noticed that a Taiwanese singer used the exact same tune from Tori No Uta from "AIR" , a game cum anime's opening sequence. The Taiwanese singer was contacted by Visual Arts Key and he immediately apologised (citing he didn't write the song thus not know it was plagiarised) and removed the song from the album. I think if people really wanted to pursue the case against Kanno, they'd have one. Or maybe she has a strong backing.
d3v Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) All Along The Watchtower was originally a Bob Dylan song and has since his time become a rock staple. It's been covered by numerous bands including Jimi Hendrix and Dave Matthews. Though some fans opinions may vary, I really like the U2 cover of Watchtower If I recall correctly, Dylan was so enamored with Hendrix's arrangement of it that, ever since Jimi died , he usually performs that version live as a form of tribute. Lately however, whenever I hear "Watchtower," BSG comes to mind. Edited June 6, 2008 by d3v
eugimon Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I think there's a difference between covers and a ripoff. Covers retain name of song being covered or at least credits the original song to the original composer/singer/publisher. Kanno didn't credit any of them it would seem but someone mentioned this doesn't require a lawsuit as there were slight changes in the music thus it wasn't plagiarism? About a few years back a bunch of anime fans noticed that a Taiwanese singer used the exact same tune from Tori No Uta from "AIR" , a game cum anime's opening sequence. The Taiwanese singer was contacted by Visual Arts Key and he immediately apologised (citing he didn't write the song thus not know it was plagiarised) and removed the song from the album. I think if people really wanted to pursue the case against Kanno, they'd have one. Or maybe she has a strong backing. but none of those tracks are exactly the same. Most of the time there's only similarities but nothing that's even as close as the infamous vanilla ice/david bowie lawsuit. Besides, if you listen to entire track she deviates from the source material
Westlo Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 At least she's not P.Diddy. You do know that P.Diddy pays the original artists or copyright holders when his "hitmen" (beat makers) sample stuff? And the original samples are mentioned in the booklets?
Westlo Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Oh yeah 2nd day sales for the OST stay pretty close to the first days which is a good sign. Day 2 #3 9235 copies sold. May'n single has been #26 and #24 on the daily charts the last two days... has slipped a lot but that should be expected when both her songs are on the OST.
stray Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 You do know that P.Diddy pays the original artists or copyright holders when his "hitmen" (beat makers) sample stuff? And the original samples are mentioned in the booklets? I was moreso going for the aspect that aside from the bass brought up in the mix and the new vocal track it's... the same song. Regardless I was a club kid and a digital musician so whether Kanno is a remixer or not I can live with; remixes, homages, samples, arrangements, etc. don't = bad per se. Unless, IMO, it's brought to the table without like... any creative influence. I dunno. I can't fault the woman, although some of it is really kind of borderline.
Gubaba Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) Regardless I was a club kid and a digital musician so whether Kanno is a remixer or not I can live with; remixes, homages, samples, arrangements, etc. don't = bad per se. Unless, IMO, it's brought to the table without like... any creative influence. I dunno. I can't fault the woman, although some of it is really kind of borderline. It's a truism, man...all artists borrow, but great artists steal. Edited June 6, 2008 by Gubaba
Morpheus Posted June 6, 2008 Author Posted June 6, 2008 Anyone know whether the song Sheryl write on her panty...I mean Meltran panty will came out later?
Gubaba Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Anyone know whether the song Sheryl write on her panty...I mean Meltran panty will came out later? Do you think they would throw that scene in there if it weren't going to come up later...? I imagine it will be unveiled with a great deal of fanfare sometime down the road.
Westlo Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Do you think they would throw that scene in there if it weren't going to come up later...? I imagine it will be unveiled with a great deal of fanfare sometime down the road. My guess is that Alto is with (or closer) Ranka at the time the song is premiered and the lyrics remind him of the events that took place star date and everything else about Sheryl.
Major Focker Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 My guess is that Alto is with (or closer) Ranka at the time the song is premiered and the lyrics remind him of the events that took place star date and everything else about Sheryl. indeed, that could very well happen. i wonder if it will be of happy times yet have a melancholic tune. now, when this single comes out in the real world, i wonder what freebies they'll throw in?
MisaForever Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Can or has anyone translated the vocal songs into full english? I'm curious as to how much sense the lyrics actually make.
Daigoro Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) ... I think it's you who sounds as if of a younger mindset... Kids today...!! Only joking Would you believe I'm 43? When I first learned computer programming in high school, we used PUNCH CARDS and sent those cards to another school with a minicomputer! I just happen to be happy to adopt new technology. First started using mp3's back in 1994 when I got my first PC (I'd had Commodore machines before). I bought my first portable mp3 player, the Diamond Rio PMP-300, way back in 1999! That came with a whopping 32 megaBYTES of memory... Hard copies FTW. That's why I always go lossless. Huh? Did you mean to say "Lossless for the win, that's why I always go hard copy"? Either way it makes no sense, since you can play lossless files off of a hard drive, either on your computer with a decent sound card, or from a portable mp3 player with a line-out. Nowadays there are several brands of portables that support FLAC. Even if they don't support it natively, you can install the open source firmware Rockbox, which supports a whole crapload of codecs, both lossless and lossy, from OGG to APE to FLAC: http://www.rockbox.org/ Most people won't have a need for it, but if you want certain features that your player normally doesn't have (like supporting drag and drop through Windows, gapless playback, five band graphic equalizer, etc.), it is a godsend. I was using my iRiver H340 portable player (hard drive upgraded to 60 gigs) with Rockbox, hooked up through its line-out to a speaker system. Now that I have an extra computer, I usually use my laptop instead, with a Creative Labs Audigy 2Zs Notebook card in it. Either way, I can have my entire music collection hooked up to my speakers. No fumbling for plastic disks. But seriously, I think 99.99% of people can't tell the difference between lossless and a WELL-ENCODED mp3. Try a blind listening test and see if you can really tell the difference between lossless and the same track encoded with LAME -V0, not something encoded with iTunes. For my portable player, I usually just use V2, which is plenty fine for IEM or headphone use. (Using Shure SE320s.) Edited June 6, 2008 by Daigoro
Major Focker Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 mostly true. i use EAC and LAME -V0 for mp3 encodes. through headphones, hard to distinguish. but running it through hi-fi speakers, the odds improve depending on the song.
MisaForever Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 So, to make a CD out of FLAC files, do you have to convert them to WAV first?
Major Focker Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 So, to make a CD out of FLAC files, do you have to convert them to WAV first? nero can burn flac to CD. there are other freeware that can do it as well but i'm no longer updated on those. http://www.simplehelp.net/2006/09/26/how-t...n-windows/#nero
Heron Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 nero can burn flac to CD. there are other freeware that can do it as well but i'm no longer updated on those. http://www.simplehelp.net/2006/09/26/how-t...n-windows/#nero To use Nero, dontcha have to use the Megapack plugin?
MisaForever Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 nero can burn flac to CD. there are other freeware that can do it as well but i'm no longer updated on those. http://www.simplehelp.net/2006/09/26/how-t...n-windows/#nero OOHHH!! Thanks
MisaForever Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 To use Nero, dontcha have to use the Megapack plugin? *notes that*
Drahken Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 You can use Winamp to output a .wav then write it that way also.
ma2ha3 Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Ok, I'll figure it out. Thanks i am using mac and i cannot use winamp to convert to wav because vmware fusion emulate sound card, but winamp want the real macoy basically, wv files kill the mac user so does all those program like keyhole, kill the mac user basically run a xp/vista system or lots of program will fail in the mac.
MisaForever Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I'm guessing if I wanted to print the booklet to the soundtrack, I should do it secretly and not at a Kinko's? hrm..... I don't have a color printer.
Heron Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I'm guessing if I wanted to print the booklet to the soundtrack, I should do it secretly and not at a Kinko's? hrm..... I don't have a color printer. OR. You could order from CDJapan, just like me!
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