Animation Quality of Macross Frontier

[wolfx]

After watching the raw of ep 7, i have to say that the 2D still isn't up to notch. Ep 8 preview....omfg. Eye cancer for the lack of a better term.

*whine whine sulk sulk*

Not gonna elaborate.

Edited May 16, 2008 by wolfx

[mike_s_6]

I don't want to see the next episode...

[bsu legato]

May I be the first to coin the phrase Rankabump ?

[Westlo]

The quality is not that spectacular in Seirei no Moribito, the amount of drawn frames is still very low and the colors plain, boring, dark, pastel, and flat...(CG color fill tool) despite the proportions and style looking nice. For quality animation with detail, depth, ridiculous amounts of dynamic shading, and many smooth frames, you have to go back to the pre-CG era where they still drew and hand-painted cells.

Eh Seirei no Moribito and nearly everything else is still hand drawn... the difference between now and before is digital painting compared to hand painted cells... and digital painting has many advantages over hand painted cells.. youtube Studio 4Cs (when the hell is Detroit Metal City going to premiere!!) work to see some of them... here check out the Kung Fu Love demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yMrOcaDZJM

[bsu legato]

Eh Seirei no Moribito and nearly everything else is still hand drawn... the difference between now and before is digital painting compared to hand painted cells... and digital painting has many advantages over hand painted cells.. youtube Studio 4Cs (when the hell is Detroit Metal City going to premiere!!) work to see some of them... here check out the Kung Fu Love demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yMrOcaDZJM

Dude, don't even bother trying to discuss this "CG issue" with them in any rational way. The more I hear bitching about it, the more I realize how little they actually understand. Around these parts, CG (and can you even call computer painting of hand drawn cells "CG"? ) has become a shorthand on these board for some of the laziest yet most vitriolic bitching and moaning this side of the internet.

[wolfx]

Not sure what comickaze was going on about either. There was little CG in SnM. The ones that i can remember were the renderings of those monsters.

[aerocombatpilot]

This is the first time I have ever done this, so please go "easy" on me. As far as the quality of the animation in Macross Frontier goes, I can't really complain about it. The cg looks great, and animation is pretty good. I think the people who are complaining about the quality, need to go back and look at the original Macross, and Macross 7. Do you remember the first two episodes of Macross? The quality of the animation was great. The mecha and the characters looked wonderful.

BUT, do you remember episode 3?!! The characters looked horrible and the mecha was just an eye sore. The quality picked up in episodes 4,5,and 6 however there were episodes that were hard to behold. And as far as macross 7, in my opinion the quality was NEVER there!! I think we can expect Macross Frontier to encounter the same quality up's and down's as the original Macross, which is not a bad thing considering how good it still is.

[SuperHobo]

I've been watching anime for about 12 years now and too me Frontier looks just fine within the 2D department and CG department. Sure you'll have a few lapses in animation from time to time, but hey its a TV series and not every episode will look like a Masterpiece of epic proportions. I think in general people have become overly critical about any little inconsistency they find in life. Personally I would never really rant about animation quality and detailing unless it looked like that shin-chan eye bleeder from Satan's ass. Lets enjoy the show for the show, Frontier is already loaded with beautiful eye candy and I hope there's more to come. Seven episodes in I'm happy so far and lets hope the animation could go to an even higher extent ( as well as the plot and writing) for future episodes. Peace!

[Gubaba]

This is the first time I have ever done this, so please go "easy" on me. As far as the quality of the animation in Macross Frontier goes, I can't really complain about it. The cg looks great, and animation is pretty good. I think the people who are complaining about the quality, need to go back and look at the original Macross, and Macross 7. Do you remember the first two episodes of Macross? The quality of the animation was great. The mecha and the characters looked wonderful.

BUT, do you remember episode 3?!! The characters looked horrible and the mecha was just an eye sore. The quality picked up in episodes 4,5,and 6 however there were episodes that were hard to behold. And as far as macross 7, in my opinion the quality was NEVER there!! I think we can expect Macross Frontier to encounter the same quality up's and down's as the original Macross, which is not a bad thing considering how good it still is.

I've been watching anime for about 12 years now and too me Frontier looks just fine within the 2D department and CG department. Sure you'll have a few lapses in animation from time to time, but hey its a TV series and not every episode will look like a Masterpiece of epic proportions. I think in general people have become overly critical about any little inconsistency they find in life. Personally I would never really rant about animation quality and detailing unless it looked like that shin-chan eye bleeder from Satan's ass. Lets enjoy the show for the show, Frontier is already loaded with beautiful eye candy and I hope there's more to come. Seven episodes in I'm happy so far and lets hope the animation could go to an even higher extent ( as well as the plot and writing) for future episodes. Peace!

Thank God for sanity!

(Except, I would take issue with aerocombatpilot and say that M7 did have some good animation...it's just that it got recycled episode after episode...)

[Westlo]

Around these parts, CG (and can you even call computer painting of hand drawn cells "CG"? )

Ah one of these places hey... rose tinted glasses are standard issue I guess when looking back at past stuff? Slayers TV > Moribito because hand painted cels are better than digital color ones right! And no you can't call digital painting cg.

[chrono]

And no you can't call digital painting cg.

CG is Computer Generated and ALL digital work IS cg. Plenty of positive uses, just a continuing lack of time, money, and talent to be of use. Especially today when not even CG work is fast or cheap enough.

[Phil K]

Didn't wolfx cite Gundam 00 as an example as a recent series with no animation flubs at all? I'm not even going to bring up the last episode of the season cause that would be too easy.

[Westlo]

Did Wolfx say that? lol!? Did he somehow miss the Sunrise animation team going on a holiday in episode 8? Also the 2d character animation in Gundam 00 was never at a high level in the first place, nowhere near the stuff you see in Frontier 01 and 04 or Seirei no Moribito or Soul Eater.

CG is Computer Generated and ALL digital work IS cg. Plenty of positive uses, just a continuing lack of time, money, and talent to be of use. Especially today when not even CG work is fast or cheap enough.

Oh come on, technically you're right but when people refer to CG they are talking about stuff like

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Macr...0Large%2003.jpg

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/To%2...0Large%2033.jpg

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Drag...0Large%2014.jpg

not stuff like

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Macr...0Large%2019.jpg

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/To%2...0Large%2038.jpg

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Drag...0Large%2035.jpg

If it's still hand drawn and animated I really can't call it CG even if it's digitally painted.

[wolfx]

Didn't wolfx cite Gundam 00 as an example as a recent series with no animation flubs at all? I'm not even going to bring up the last episode of the season cause that would be too easy.

At least i didn't noticed them as easily as i did with Frontier.

Final episode will be this right?

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2008/03/29/gundam-00-25/

But i definately missed that one scene you attached. Was it like 1 split second frame out of the whole series as compared to entire episodes of Frontier?

Did Wolfx say that? lol!? Did he somehow miss the Sunrise animation team going on a holiday in episode 8? Also the 2d character animation in Gundam 00 was never at a high level in the first place, nowhere near the stuff you see in Frontier 01 and 04 or Seirei no Moribito or Soul Eater.

This episode?

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2007/11/24/gundam-00-08/

Don't see anything wrong with it at all....unless its all the "00" that is distracting me.

Anyway i rather settle for "low level" over an entire series rather than "crap levels" in between overly good levels any day. Over here we have a saying, it takes just a drop of dye to spoil a bucket of milk.

[wolfx]

Art went down the drain for ep8. Can't comment on animation yet since the live i streaming i watched was choppy.

And to the fanboys who think it is just a different art style.... don't delude yourselves.

or Sheryl will punish you.

[StrangeWill]

As much as I'm anxious to find out the final results from the animation side. You can't really make a judgment on a low-resolution stream as far as draw quality. Shows a heavy bias. I'm not saying it can't be bad, actually from all the talk I'm expecting it, but at least get some valid media first.

Dude, don't even bother trying to discuss this "CG issue" with them in any rational way. The more I hear bitching about it, the more I realize how little they actually understand. Around these parts, CG (and can you even call computer painting of hand drawn cells "CG"? ) has become a shorthand on these board for some of the laziest yet most vitriolic bitching and moaning this side of the internet.

Can you call a VF-1 an airplane?

It's a hybrid IMHO, part CG part not. Personally I think CG should be used, it can apply algorithms that would take ages to do for a human by hand, and do it at a better quality.

Edited May 22, 2008 by StrangeWill

[Phil K]

I think wolfx must have been drinking a lot of Gundam koolaid if he missed stuff like this during the FINAL CLIMATIC episode of Gundam 00. Not a filler episode, not even a filler scene, quite obviously the MOST IMPORTANT scene in the whole series.

Is this a shot from Gundam 0079 animated in 1979 or Gundam 00 animated in 2008? Can't really tell!

Someone give the poor Alvaroon some Viagra, the animators gave its guns erectile dysfunction.

Look at all the drawing detail.

Return of Gundam 0079

Now, let me get this off my chest. Does it suck that Frontier's animation quality is fluctuating a bit. Yes, yes it does. I'm not defending the fact that Frontier has bad animation. What I'm trying to say that practically every anime series with an average budget fluctuates during its run. Frontier airs at 2AM in the morning, it's obviously going to try to cut some corners to come under budget compared to Seirei no Moribito, which is high profile and airing during Prime Time. It's just shitty that people who don't understand the art behind animation and the business of the industry whine and moan. As I said in another thread, you draw 36000 pictures in a week and come back, and maybe we can take your whining seriously.

The animation will most likely be corrected for the video release. That's pretty much been the standard in the industry for the past half decade. Pay for the DVDs and get the corrected shots if it annoys you so much.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Phil K

[Westlo]

Gundam 00 is quality, this scene kills anything in Frontier.

http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap28292hz9.png

[Macross007]

Gundam 00 is quality, this scene kills anything in Frontier.

http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap28292hz9.png

My eyes, my eyes ...

[Tobi54]

Gundam 00 is quality, this scene kills anything in Frontier.

http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap28292hz9.png

LOL

[Tobi54]

Now, let me get this off my chest. Does it suck that Frontier's animation quality is fluctuating a bit. Yes, yes it does. I'm not defending the fact that Frontier has bad animation. What I'm trying to say that practically every anime series with an average budget fluctuates during its run. Frontier airs at 2AM in the morning, it's obviously going to try to cut some corners to come under budget compared to Seirei no Moribito, which is high profile and airing during Prime Time. It's just shitty that people who don't understand the art behind animation and the business of the industry whine and moan. As I said in another thread, you draw 36000 pictures in a week and come back, and maybe we can take your whining seriously.

The animation will most likely be corrected for the video release. That's pretty much been the standard in the industry for the past half decade. Pay for the DVDs and get the corrected shots if it annoys you so much.

I completely agree with you, and understand what they are doing with the budget they have, also I couldn't be happier with the balance that they have achieved so far when it comes to all the elements put together, but I also still think that pointing something out and discussing it is getting confused with whining for the sake of whining. Believe me, when the Blu-Rays comes out, I'll be more than happy to spend my money on them, I may not be as active as other posters on the board, but I'm sure you'll find plenty of praise from me on each of the episode threads. I've loved every episode so far, but it also happens that I enjoy discussing the production of the show, at the end of the day it doesn't matter if one shot looked better than the other, what matters is that the show is kicking a$$ (so far), but just like people think that some are over-reacting by "whinning", I think some others are acting overly defensive over something that doesn't need to be defended.

[ComicKaze]

I just downloaded episode 8 of Frontier.

Oh my word, it's beyond dreadful this team, right from the first scene when Ranka burst out the carrots. It looks like it was animated in China.

Edited May 23, 2008 by ComicKaze

[Macross007]

I just downloaded episode 8 of Frontier.

Oh my word, it's beyond dreadful this team, right from the first scene when Ranka burst out the carrots. It looks like it was animated in China.

ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL MY EYES DUDE !?!?!?

[Tobi54]

This episode made me really sad, I can deal with quality drops due to budget, but in this episode they took way too many liberties with the character design, one thing is for the art to lack detail, and one thing is for it to look different from the original designs. On the bright side, looks like Satelight is still handling all the backgrounds in-house, they still look completely gorgeous, especially some of the shots towards the end of the episode.

[ComicKaze]

BTW, the next week looks like the high quality animation team is back. Yahooooo!

[Tobi54]

BTW, the next week looks like the high quality animation team is back. Yahooooo!

^

[ComicKaze]

Dude, don't even bother trying to discuss this "CG issue" with them in any rational way. The more I hear bitching about it, the more I realize how little they actually understand. Around these parts, CG (and can you even call computer painting of hand drawn cells "CG"? ) has become a shorthand on these board for some of the laziest yet most vitriolic bitching and moaning this side of the internet.

CG is 2D art that has been colored or enhanced by computer. It's the proper term in Japan for any anime, games, art, etc. done like that.

[Graham]

Just my two cents.

The mecha drawing, animation and choreography in Frontier is gorgeous IMO and beats any other mecha anime ever, IMO. Only some mecha scenes from Zero, Plus DYRL or original BGC come close or equal it IMO. However, the Frontier mecha animation has been consistently brilliant so far every single time the mecha have had screen time. IMO, no Gundam show can touch this on mecha animation quality.

Backgrounds in Frontier have also been simply stunning, absolutely beautiful and easily surpass the background art of pretty much any other anime I can think of.

I love the character designs in Frontier and generally the character drawing and animation have been of a high quality, although with noticable dips in quality in the actual character drawings in certain scenes, mainly in those episodes where the character animation duties have been farmed out to other studios.

Graham

[nemesis_trooper]

I just downloaded episode 8 of Frontier.

Oh my word, it's beyond dreadful this team, right from the first scene when Ranka burst out the carrots. It looks like it was animated in China.

Still waiting for the sub...but this "carrot" screen grab is depressing! This may be the first time I vote a negative on the polls

off-topic - Anybody have any idea how soon the blu rays (coming out eventually) will come out in the US after Japan (with subs probably)? Factoring that into my decision whether to buy a PS3 or not...

[Tobi54]

Just my two cents.

The mecha drawing, animation and choreography in Frontier is gorgeous IMO and beats any other mecha anime ever, IMO. Only some mecha scenes from Zero, Plus DYRL or original BGC come close or equal it IMO. However, the Frontier mecha animation has been consistently brilliant so far every single time the mecha have had screen time. IMO, no Gundam show can touch this on mecha animation quality.

Backgrounds in Frontier have also been simply stunning, absolutely beautiful and easily surpass the background art of pretty much any other anime I can think of.

I love the character designs in Frontier and generally the character drawing and animation have been of a high quality, although with noticable dips in quality in the actual character drawings in certain scenes, mainly in those episodes where the character animation duties have been farmed out to other studios.

Graham

Nice summary, I agree on most of it, the only thing I disagree on is on the fight choreography, I still don't think it's on the same level as Itano's work on Zero, pretty damn close, but not there yet we're still only on episode 8 though, so there's plenty of time.

As for the actual mecha work, Satelight is raising the bar, period.

[Tobi54]

Still waiting for the sub...but this "carrot" screen grab is depressing! This may be the first time I vote a negative on the polls

off-topic - Anybody have any idea how soon the blu rays (coming out eventually) will come out in the US after Japan (with subs probably)? Factoring that into my decision whether to buy a PS3 or not...

I never let my opinion on the animation/quality of the episode get in the way of me liking or disliking the show, I don't mean to tell anyone what to do, but I dont think people should be voting negative on an episode because the animation took a hit.

As for the Blu-Rays, who knows really, they havent announced a US release, and the Japanese releases don't have english subs as far as we know, they didn't mention subs on the press release, so it's safe for us to assume they wont have any, we can always hope though. PS3? get it, it's the best over-all Blu-Ray player on the market, and at that price point is a no-brainer really (plus you can play games! lol).

[Westlo]

CG is 2D art that has been colored or enhanced by computer. It's the proper term in Japan for any anime, games, art, etc. done like that.

No that's called digital painting, you don't call hand drawn and animated stuff cg, get a clue please.

[wolfx]

I think wolfx must have been drinking a lot of Gundam koolaid if he missed stuff like this during the FINAL CLIMATIC episode of Gundam 00. Not a filler episode, not even a filler scene, quite obviously the MOST IMPORTANT scene in the whole series.

<snip>

okok i get your point. 00 isn't perfect.

I definately missed those "bad frames" during the frantic action and they are few in between compared to "zomg whole episode art weirded". If you looked in the 00 thread , i don't think anybody pointed out the art problems either since it mostly went unnoticed so i don't think it was just me.

But ANYWAY I rather we concentrate on the animation quality of Macross Frontier though rather than....b*tching that "00 does it too so Frontier is licensed to do it as well"

Now, let me get this off my chest. Does it suck that Frontier's animation quality is fluctuating a bit. Yes, yes it does. I'm not defending the fact that Frontier has bad animation. What I'm trying to say that practically every anime series with an average budget fluctuates during its run. Frontier airs at 2AM in the morning, it's obviously going to try to cut some corners to come under budget compared to Seirei no Moribito, which is high profile and airing during Prime Time. It's just shitty that people who don't understand the art behind animation and the business of the industry whine and moan. As I said in another thread, you draw 36000 pictures in a week and come back, and maybe we can take your whining seriously.

The animation will most likely be corrected for the video release. That's pretty much been the standard in the industry for the past half decade. Pay for the DVDs and get the corrected shots if it annoys you so much.

Maybe you want to prove that you know the animation and the business of the industry better than most of us because AFAIK, a person doesn't draw 36000 pictures in just 1 week. Maybe i misinterpreted you, but did you honestly think people draw episode frames each week prior to the broadcast week? You do know that at the point of broadcast, more than half the episodes have been drawn/edited and ready to be aired right?

Gundam 00 is quality, this scene kills anything in Frontier.

http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap28292hz9.png

Urgh....again went unnoticed.

No that's called digital painting, you don't call hand drawn and animated stuff cg, get a clue please.

I guess this is just a cultural/industry misuse of the word. Japanese bishoujo games have been using the term CG for their still frames because traditionally they were drawn on computers (the pixelated porn games) and the CG term coined then was brought forward till today. Go to any eroge site and you'll see the word "CG" being used for you to sample the porny goodness of the games they are advertising.

But i think for us english speakers, westlo's definition is more accurate. In fact maybe we should call it CGI (Computer Generated Image) to stop the confusion.

[aerocombatpilot]

I just saw episode 8, and for the life of me I can't understand what people want?!! If you think the animation is "bad" in

Macross Frontier go back and look at Macross 7!! Has it been that long? Have you forgotten basara's fire red YF-19 TRANSFORMATION, which was used over and over and over again?! Have you forgotten the "cannon fodder" scenes, or the way the characters looked even though they were rough designed by Hal himself?!! Believe me, even the worst episode

episode of MacrossF (which I would say is number 6), is an improvement over Macross 7!

[Graham]

While it's certainly true there was an overusage of recyled footage in Macross 7, epcecially for the stock transformation scenes and many of the combat scenes, I didn't find the overall animation quality bad at all.

I thought the character drawings and animation was pretty good and consistent throught the run of the show. There were no episodes that I can recall were there was a noticable drop in animation quality.

Note how Frontier neatly sidesteps the issue of recyling transformation scenes, by having ultra fast transformation for the VF-25.

The main thing I didn't like about Macross 7 was the somewhat washed out looking and mainly pastel colour pallet they chose to use. That was an artistic choice on the part of the production team, not a quality issue.

Graham