Animation Quality of Macross Frontier

[Morpheus]

Preparing animation quality beating stick for episode 8, who wants one

[treatment]

just some fodder for Wolfx...

an ep7 character-snapshot from Random Curiosity:

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Macr...0Large%2006.jpg

cute, but something is quite misproportioned in there.

[Westlo]

Well, episode 7 was back to the status quo, and it looks like 8 will be the same, as well. No complaints here.

8 looks horrible actually... worst than 6.

[MisaForever]

8 looks horrible actually... worst than 6.

And it doesn't matter.

[Tobi54]

ZOMG WE HAVE AN INTRUDER IN THE THREAD!!!!!11!1!one!

[MisaForever]

WHERE??!!!

[wolfx]

If you guys wanna troll, go back to your precious ep 7 thread.

just some fodder for Wolfx...

an ep7 character-snapshot from Random Curiosity:

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Macr...0Large%2006.jpg

cute, but something is quite misproportioned in there.

Wow....Sheryl lost her all natural mammaries. Maybe she's not so natural after all?

Anyway i prefer this shot u posted and trolled in the ep 7 thread.

And just to be consistent:

[DestroidDefender]

just some fodder for Wolfx...

an ep7 character-snapshot from Random Curiosity:

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Macr...0Large%2006.jpg

cute, but something is quite misproportioned in there.

I take it that's supposed to be Sheryl? That is pretty poor off-model rendering. Head too big, torso too thin, hips like a boy. It looks like Sami (from SDFM) 's head stuck on Alto's body!

It not a deal breaker for me - I've liked everything up until now.

Edited May 16, 2008 by DestroidDefender

[treatment]

If you guys wanna troll, go back to your precious ep 7 thread.

Wow....Sheryl lost her all natural mammaries. Maybe she's not so natural after all?

Anyway i prefer this shot u posted and trolled in the ep 7 thread.

And just to be consistent:

uhh, dude, you're the only one who trolled into that thread. If you weren't trolling, you would know that it wasn't even me who originally posted the Ranka-pic in that thread. See here:

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?show...st&p=595174

DUHH!!!

btw, you should be grateful that we're spotting some stuff for you to whine on.

Edited May 16, 2008 by treatment

[Save]

You guys that complain are spoiled. I don't mean it in a Mac F comparison quality to another animation. I mean it in that fact that Macross is one of the most off the radar and least cared about in the young to early 20's Japanese anime demographic in Japan. If you are outside of Japan the fact is you just don't count. For a TV series Mac F surpasses just about every current series at this time, and it is a miracle and a half that we are getting a show of this quality at all. Most of you guys don't have a real clue of what goes into an anime production. I don't care how many websites you read about production in Japan or the lame second hand information anime production books you picked up at Borders. You have not got a single clue.

Alto, Ranka, and Sheryl get the majority of screen time, so if you expect Satalite to draw them OVA or Movie quality in every frame you are an idiot.

On a positive note, Mac F is gaining interest with viewers.

From what I've read on most Non-Japanese blogs they either hate or don't think much of the opening song. Well in Japan Triangle has been in the Top ten charts since it was released. This is in the regular charts not the anime sound track charts, I mean the real deal. First it came in #2 and is currently in at #7.

Younger views have started Mac F, and it isn't because of the great 3DCG or 2D animation. The younger audience just love the dynamic of the characters and their interaction with each other. Characters are the key to a successful anime these days quality some time comes second or even third, want proof watch Lucky Star. It's all character interaction and it's was a pretty big hit last year and is still very popular.

Oh well go ahead and complain about Mac F, since downloading it nor do your opinions actually count toward whether the animation quality stays the same or drops.

[Morpheus]

Ok, I got some CG critics here.

All the CG (like ships, battles, etc) are well mixed with 2D animation. But whats with the asteroids and the pitch black background? They are supposed to be near the center of the galaxy where population of star are rich. My guess is they used asteroid as "greebles" to fill the CG scene since its simple enough. So basically they sacrifice a rich background (like stars, other valk action) for faster production to meet the TV series deadline. In every CG scene I can only counted up to 4-6 unit animated while the background is either pitch black or filled with asteroid greeble. I quess the CG animator need to learn more about CG lighting technique in space. The flak barrage from the ships is fine, but IMHO they used that to fill the empty background with flak and bolt.

(folds away)

[mike_s_6]

There are at least 3 countries animating this thing and that's probably what's causing the inconsistencies. Hey, can't there be a Japanese Quality Auditor in the other countries, even just one for each country?!

I also cringed at that shot of Sheryl, she's got skinny hips, and that's not how it looked before. Her breasts also look deflated. Or perhaps her head is just too big. Yes, that's it, the head is too big, it's almost past her shoulders. I mean, just look at the size of that head!

[Westlo]

For a TV series Mac F surpasses just about every current series at this time, and it is a miracle and a half that we are getting a show of this quality at all.

You haven't seen Seirei no Moribito?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FORDb8i_W6I

I don't have to say youtube doesn't do it justice do I? There's one scene in episode 19 where they zoom way out from the characters and let their movements tell you what they are saying, no dialogue used at all. that's how good this show is.

I do agree that people bitching about Frontier being average is stupid.. but Frontier isn't near the best for 2d animation.. it's way better than average of course though.. though episode 8 looks to bring it down a notch or two overall...

Edited May 16, 2008 by Westlo

[Tobi54]

You guys that complain are spoiled. I don't mean it in a Mac F comparison quality to another animation. I mean it in that fact that Macross is one of the most off the radar and least cared about in the young to early 20's Japanese anime demographic in Japan. If you are outside of Japan the fact is you just don't count. For a TV series Mac F surpasses just about every current series at this time, and it is a miracle and a half that we are getting a show of this quality at all. Most of you guys don't have a real clue of what goes into an anime production. I don't care how many websites you read about production in Japan or the lame second hand information anime production books you picked up at Borders. You have not got a single clue.

Alto, Ranka, and Sheryl get the majority of screen time, so if you expect Satalite to draw them OVA or Movie quality in every frame you are an idiot.

On a positive note, Mac F is gaining interest with viewers.

From what I've read on most Non-Japanese blogs they either hate or don't think much of the opening song. Well in Japan Triangle has been in the Top ten charts since it was released. This is in the regular charts not the anime sound track charts, I mean the real deal. First it came in #2 and is currently in at #7.

Younger views have started Mac F, and it isn't because of the great 3DCG or 2D animation. The younger audience just love the dynamic of the characters and their interaction with each other. Characters are the key to a successful anime these days quality some time comes second or even third, want proof watch Lucky Star. It's all character interaction and it's was a pretty big hit last year and is still very popular.

Oh well go ahead and complain about Mac F, since downloading it nor do your opinions actually count toward whether the animation quality stays the same or drops.

I love your attitude, since what we think doesn't matter, why are you wasting your time with us? I'm gonna say this again, if you're not here to discuss the topic of the thread MOVE ALONG, if it bothers you that much, start a thread just to bash the people discussing here, I don't understand why people get so defensive about it to begin with, fanboy blindness is tough to deal with I guess.

[Tobi54]

You haven't seen Seirei no Moribito?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FORDb8i_W6I

I don't have to say youtube doesn't do it justice do I? There's one scene in episode 19 where they zoom way out from the characters and let their movements tell you what they are saying, no dialogue used at all. that's how good this show is.

I do agree that people bitching about Frontier being average is stupid.. but Frontier isn't near the best for 2d animation.. it's way better than average of course though.. though episode 8 looks to bring it down a notch or two overall...

I agree, Frontier is nowhere near average IMO.

[Mr March]

Save

Not exactly the most diplomatic way to make a point, but then again who am I to talk? I will say this, you're my kind of bastard

I'm glad to hear that Macross in Japan is back in the public eye again and attracting attention. It deserves it. This series so far has been seven episodes of non-stop anime ownage. THe music is great, the action is great, the characters are great and the story keeps me begging for more. This IS Macross and it's great to be back, animation quality debates and all

[Tobi54]

Save

Not exactly the most diplomatic way to make a point, but then again who am I to talk? I will say this, you're my kind of bastard

I'm glad to hear that Macross in Japan is back in the public eye again and attracting attention. It deserves it. This series so far has been seven episodes of non-stop anime ownage. THe music is great, the action is great, the characters are great and the story keeps me begging for more. This IS Macross and it's great to be back, animation quality debates and all

Of course, I think anyone that visits this boards is more than happy on how well MacF is doing on all facets, whether is music, ratings, etc. I think the problem is that people confuse this discussion and think we're "hating" on it, and feel the need to defend something they like, but it's really not needed because we're really far from doing that, some criticism may be harder than others, but the point of this thread is to exchange different types of views and opinions, not too "hate" on MacF.

I think some people may be getting ahead of themselves about ep8, yet we still have a whole week to praise ep7

[Tobi54]

Ok, I got some CG critics here.

All the CG (like ships, battles, etc) are well mixed with 2D animation. But whats with the asteroids and the pitch black background? They are supposed to be near the center of the galaxy where population of star are rich. My guess is they used asteroid as "greebles" to fill the CG scene since its simple enough. So basically they sacrifice a rich background (like stars, other valk action) for faster production to meet the TV series deadline. In every CG scene I can only counted up to 4-6 unit animated while the background is either pitch black or filled with asteroid greeble. I quess the CG animator need to learn more about CG lighting technique in space. The flak barrage from the ships is fine, but IMHO they used that to fill the empty background with flak and bolt.

(folds away)

The use of asteroids is the same as the use of clouds in Zero, you need something relatively static to put as a background agaist the VF's to convey a sense of speed for the viewer, imagine watching the VF's flying full speed against an empty background, no matter how fast they were going your eyes couldn't really tell the difference between fast or slow, since there's nothing to compare it to. Of course this is not the only thing they use to show speed, but it's one.

[Save]

I love your attitude, since what we think doesn't matter, why are you wasting your time with us? I'm gonna say this again, if you're not here to discuss the topic of the thread MOVE ALONG, if it bothers you that much, start a thread just to bash the people discussing here, I don't understand why people get so defensive about it to begin with, fanboy blindness is tough to deal with I guess.

The answer to your question is........ because I'm a member and what I posted does have to do with this discussion topic. My contribution to the tread had not one question just pointed out the reasons why to what people are bothered about. I'm not bothered as I'm just a fan as well, but for every Yin there is a Yang, it just that Yin hates it when the Yang speaks or in this case Posted back. If you took it as a bash you took it wrong, it's just the facts man just the facts.

Westlo,

Seirei no Moribito yep seen it Production IG, with a prime time TV slot, backed by a major Japanese TV station, opening animation by hugely popular Japanese music group L'Arc~en~Ciel. Of course it's going to look good, not really sure if it would actually have the legs to hold up on its own out side of Japan.

Westlo,

Rock on!!

Edited May 16, 2008 by Save

[wolfx]

uhh, dude, you're the only one who trolled into that thread. If you weren't trolling, you would know that it wasn't even me who originally posted the Ranka-pic in that thread. See here:

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?show...st&p=595174

DUHH!!!

btw, you should be grateful that we're spotting some stuff for you to whine on.

As far as I was concerned, you were the one pointing it to me thus trolling since i missed azrael's post.

"I'm only half-joking since I haven't seen it, yet. but just going by this shot http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=02ba6.jpg

I'm waiting for anyone to justify how "pretty" it is against the other previous episodes. Maybe wolfx will do a zoomed-in thingy again"

DUH!

You guys that complain are spoiled. I don't mean it in a Mac F comparison quality to another animation. I mean it in that fact that Macross is one of the most off the radar and least cared about in the young to early 20's Japanese anime demographic in Japan. If you are outside of Japan the fact is you just don't count. For a TV series Mac F surpasses just about every current series at this time, and it is a miracle and a half that we are getting a show of this quality at all. Most of you guys don't have a real clue of what goes into an anime production. I don't care how many websites you read about production in Japan or the lame second hand information anime production books you picked up at Borders. You have not got a single clue.

I think some of us here have watched enough anime to make a proper distinction between good and bad art/animation. Knowing the technicalities behind it and telling ppl "you don't know nothing" is just a way of justifying mistakes and appear to be a jerk at the same time. I don't have to know that it takes 500 camera angles to shoot a scene in The Matrix. But I know those scenes were just plain awesome. Same can be said if can identify a quality stink.

Fact is viewers shouldn't even care about these things.

Alto, Ranka, and Sheryl get the majority of screen time, so if you expect Satalite to draw them OVA or Movie quality in every frame you are an idiot.

To quote Westlo, go watch Seirei No Moribito as a prime good example of a TV series done in remarkable quality. It is an adaptation of a little known novel outside of Japan and look at the treatment they gave it. So citing Macross as "ppl dun care about it" as an excuse is inexcusable.

Of course we're not expecting Frontier to be OVA/Movie quality here or even be on par with SnM since that has exceptionally good production values. But at the very least stay consistent and don't look like crap in certain episodes. Hell , even Aquarion also done by Satelight, had less obviously stinker episodes.

On a positive note, Mac F is gaining interest with viewers.

From what I've read on most Non-Japanese blogs they either hate or don't think much of the opening song. Well in Japan Triangle has been in the Top ten charts since it was released. This is in the regular charts not the anime sound track charts, I mean the real deal. First it came in #2 and is currently in at #7.

Younger views have started Mac F, and it isn't because of the great 3DCG or 2D animation. The younger audience just love the dynamic of the characters and their interaction with each other. Characters are the key to a successful anime these days quality some time comes second or even third, want proof watch Lucky Star. It's all character interaction and it's was a pretty big hit last year and is still very popular.

Japanese forums are also whining about the animation so we're not alone. And they definately have more influence on anime production there than we do, as example, the Gurren Lagann debacle.

And i don't think it wise to bring Lucky Star as a comparison to Frontier as i personally think LS was made popular due to Kyoto Animation and the Haruhi craze which had yet to die off. I think LS's appeal in general is the MOE and otaku-centric jokes rather than the interaction.

Oh well go ahead and complain about Mac F, since downloading it nor do your opinions actually count toward whether the animation quality stays the same or drops.

That's uncalled for. This forum is here for discussion and we're doing just that. Sure we don't effect anything in terms of the production of the anime, but neither does ANYONE else in this forum.

You haven't seen Seirei no Moribito?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FORDb8i_W6I

I don't have to say youtube doesn't do it justice do I? There's one scene in episode 19 where they zoom way out from the characters and let their movements tell you what they are saying, no dialogue used at all. that's how good this show is.

I do agree that people bitching about Frontier being average is stupid.. but Frontier isn't near the best for 2d animation.. it's way better than average of course though.. though episode 8 looks to bring it down a notch or two overall...

SnM is awesome. I'll leave it at that.

But please don't call anyone stupid. Everyone has a POV and I can see all sides to this debacle.

Camp 1: (Fighter mode)

Hardcore Macross fans. Only watched Macross, not much of other anime. Animation hiccups are a non-issue to them. Zooms straight ahead.

Camp 2: (Gerwalk mode)

Anime fans, also a Macross fan. Watched buncha anime, and able to discern between good and bad animation. Animation quality irks them slightly. Balance between the 2 camps.

Camp 3: (Battroid mode)

Hard to please: The original Macrosses are the best. Frontier has many problems etc. Sheer energy conversion armour baybeh. Bitch bitch bitch.

[Gubaba]

Camp 1: (Fighter mode)

Hardcore Macross fans. Only watched Macross, not much of other anime. Animation hiccups are a non-issue to them. Zooms straight ahead.

Camp 2: (Gerwalk mode)

Anime fans, also a Macross fan. Watched buncha anime, and able to discern between good and bad animation. Animation quality irks them slightly. Balance between the 2 camps.

Camp 3: (Battroid mode)

Hard to please: The original Macrosses are the best. Frontier has many problems etc. Sheer energy conversion armour baybeh. Bitch bitch bitch.

Well...I watch a lot of anime (not necessarily NEW anime, though), and I'm also a macross fan...but the animation quirks are a non-issue to me...so what am I? A Gerwalk with just the legs down...?

[Save]

To quote Westlo, go watch Seirei No Moribito as a prime good example of a TV series done in remarkable quality. It is an adaptation of a little known novel outside of Japan and look at the treatment they gave it. So citing Macross as "ppl dun care about it" as an excuse is inexcusable.

Of course we're not expecting Frontier to be OVA/Movie quality here or even be on par with SnM since that has exceptionally good production values. But at the very least stay consistent and don't look like crap in certain episodes. Hell , even Aquarion also done by Satelight, had less obviously stinker episodes.

No actually it is true about that the demographic I specifically said I did not just say a generalization like "ppl dun care about it". Yeah Paprika was a little known novel too, but it would be something new in terms of anime so it is easier to get funding for something new than for something that has be remade a few times with less than Gundam or GITS returns. The Megazone 23 prequal was killed due to that same reason. Reason being it's old and nobody cares about old or non-Moe anime. <----- Not my words they came from the Director of Megazone 23 translated of course.

Seeming Aquarion has had it's full run, movie and is a hug hit with Japanese Fujoushi I couldn't realistically line it up side by side to Mac F's 7 episodes.

Japanese forums are also whining about the animation so we're not alone. And they definately have more influence on anime production there than we do, as example, the Gurren Lagann debacle.

And i don't think it wise to bring Lucky Star as a comparison to Frontier as i personally think LS was made popular due to Kyoto Animation and the Haruhi craze which had yet to die off. I think LS's appeal in general is the MOE and otaku-centric jokes rather than the interaction.

Don't follow Gurren Lagann unable to retort, but Yoko is hot! It is just as fair as a comparison as Seirei No Moribito, which is also not as popular as LS.

That's uncalled for. This forum is here for discussion and we're doing just that. Sure we don't effect anything in terms of the production of the anime, but neither does ANYONE else in this forum.

Sorry if you find that to be a bit hard, but it is the fact. Goes for me too since I'm no longer living in the US and have to uses the same means to complain about the stuff that is coming from home. Read the Terminator TV thread you see what I mean.

SnM is awesome. I'll leave it at that.

But please don't call anyone stupid. Everyone has a POV and I can see all sides to this debacle.

Camp 1: (Fighter mode)

Hardcore Macross fans. Only watched Macross, not much of other anime. Animation hiccups are a non-issue to them. Zooms straight ahead.

Camp 2: (Gerwalk mode)

Anime fans, also a Macross fan. Watched buncha anime, and able to discern between good and bad animation. Animation quality irks them slightly. Balance between the 2 camps.

Camp 3: (Battroid mode)

Hard to please: The original Macrosses are the best. Frontier has many problems etc. Sheer energy conversion armour baybeh. Bitch bitch bitch.

SnM not my cup of tea but a good looking not my cup of tea at that.

About the "idiot" thing in my post. Just came from writing a reason not really and attack on anybody or bash just came out in the writing. GOMEN to anybody if you took it the wrong way. Should have used a better analogy.

Guess I'm not in a VF class Camp.

Maybe I'm in:

Camp 4: (cruiser frotress mode)

Camp 5: (battle fortress mode)

I'm joking now. I not a basher I've been bashed and never bash willfully. I love you all !!!!

Edited May 16, 2008 by Save

[wolfx]

Well...I watch a lot of anime (not necessarily NEW anime, though), and I'm also a macross fan...but the animation quirks are a non-issue to me...so what am I? A Gerwalk with just the legs down...?

Bingo.

Oh and you lost your cancer pod too.

[Gubaba]

Bingo.

Oh and you lost your cancer pod too.

Maybe...but I can make a circle with my head lasers! Useful for saving girls in Alaska!

[eugimon]

you forgot "destroid camp"

People who think they know something about animation, but actually have no clue as to what they're talking about.

[ackem]

8 looks horrible actually... worst than 6.

I haven't been bothered at all by any of the animation snafus that people have been sniping about, but 8 looks so horrible that even I can't refrain from commenting about how bad it is. Check out the official site's preview pictures, I have no words to describe how I feel about that third picture of Alto and Sheryl. I'm sure I'll still enjoy the episode, but still...

Edited May 16, 2008 by ackem

[ComicKaze]

Episode 7 reuses concert footage from the DeCulture edition of the first episode. It's remixed though and CG'd up and looks good.

Edited May 16, 2008 by ComicKaze

[Gubaba]

I haven't been bothered at all by any of the animation snafus that people have been sniping about, but 8 looks so horrible that even I can't refrain from commenting about how bad it is. Check out the official site's preview pictures, I have no words to describe how I feel about that third picture of Alto and Sheryl. I'm sure I'll still enjoy the episode, but still...

Alto looks okay...but Sheryl looks like some kind of nocturnal tree-dwelling creature...

[ComicKaze]

You haven't seen Seirei no Moribito?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FORDb8i_W6I

I don't have to say youtube doesn't do it justice do I? There's one scene in episode 19 where they zoom way out from the characters and let their movements tell you what they are saying, no dialogue used at all. that's how good this show is.

I do agree that people bitching about Frontier being average is stupid.. but Frontier isn't near the best for 2d animation.. it's way better than average of course though.. though episode 8 looks to bring it down a notch or two overall...

The quality is not that spectacular in Seirei no Moribito, the amount of drawn frames is still very low and the colors plain, boring, dark, pastel, and flat...(CG color fill tool) despite the proportions and style looking nice. For quality animation with detail, depth, ridiculous amounts of dynamic shading, and many smooth frames, you have to go back to the pre-CG era where they still drew and hand-painted cells.

Edited May 16, 2008 by ComicKaze

[ComicKaze]

Link to official site with preview shots of this supposedly horribly animated ep 8?

[Gubaba]

Link to official site with preview shots of this supposedly horribly animated ep 8?

http://macrossf.com/story/story_list.html

[00X]

But whats with the asteroids and the pitch black background?

The backgrounds actually have stars and nebulae and poo in them. What's up with them being pitchblack is crappy screen brightness, I'd say.

Check out the official site's preview pictures, I have no words to describe how I feel about that third picture of Alto and Sheryl. I'm sure I'll still enjoy the episode, but still...

It isn't really Sheryl in that picture. It's Lanka daydreaming she's Sheryl and that Alto saved her in the Ep1 concert accident.

That's what I choose to believe. Because I have to.

[ComicKaze]

The backgrounds actually have stars and nebulae and poo in them. What's up with them being pitchblack is crappy screen brightness, I'd say.

It isn't really Sheryl in that picture. It's Lanka daydreaming she's Sheryl and that Alto saved her in the Ep1 concert accident.

That's what I choose to believe. Because I have to.

OMG!!! The sun is so bright that Sheyrl's nose started to melt off and slide down her face!!!

[dreamweaver13]

Are you guys BLIND? that's not Sheryl!! That's an inflatable Sheryl Nome edition sex doll! jeez.

Eventually, alto was no longer satisfied with just a frickin earring in his cockpit.

[chrono]

Ahhh....there's a very fine line between "style" and art quality. You raised a good example citing Noein as an example. Noein had its own art style, which was consistent since EPISODE 1. It didn't pretend to be a high budget sci-fi show. It didn't hide that its budget was lower than most anime series of that time. It was just Noien, and people appreciated it for that. Remember the pencil sketch episode? I won't consider that an art degradation but probably there due to artistic reasons (and MAYBE budgetary concerns?)

The art in NOEIN had issues as fast as the second episode. The quality jumps and fluxs through it and well before & by ep 10 was showing a lack of quality. As for it's art style it was the manga author's style. Not a budgetary or for artistic reasons. Strain was slightly more consistent, but like all anime it suffered as well.

Consistence is a myth in art and anime.

but Sheryl looks like some kind of nocturnal tree-dwelling creature...

BAWHAHAHAHA!!