Animation Quality of Macross Frontier

[Zinjo]

OK, all of you out of the episode thread, NOW!!!!

[miriya]

I love the animation quality in Frontier. So far it is totally amazing and beyond what I had imagined. The only thing that would mention, which I know has been mentioned already, is that in episode 06 Sheryll's mouth is animated strangely a few times and her face changes shape. But as a whole, I am really happy with the animation in Frontier.

[Westlo]

The 2d animation aside from episode 6 (which was outsourced to a Filipino company.. and it still wasn't as bad as say RahXephon 21...) has been consistently great, even in episode 4 which had very rough and inconsistent character designs the actual movement was still high quality. Anyone who considers this is average has no fing clue about what they are talking about.... average 2d animation does not animate stuff as well as Sheryl concert, Ranka's Nyan Nyan dance and movement through the forest, Alto's hair styling in episode 4, the amount of movement in the Nyan Nyan shop as Klan chases Michael, the movement of Sheryl and Alto as they embarrassingly brake apart hands after running onto the train in episode 5. Average is stuff like Amatsuki, To Love Ru & Kamen no Maid Guy... Frontier is far better than them though it's not in the same class as Seirei no Moribito and Soul Eater... but you can say the same for 99.5% of shows released this decade...

The CG is probably the best looking CG used for a tv series, nothing else really comes close and only OVAs and movies beat this. The backgrounds have been stunning, I really liked this one from episode 6...

http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13890220qv1.jpg

Episode 5 had some really nice background work as well as it showcased Frontier to Sheryl and us viewers, the city backgrounds were just amazing as was the beautiful countryside.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Westlo

[ComicKaze]

Looks like someone has taken it upon themselves to segregate the animation talk from the actual episodes discussion. I don't think this is a good idea, it'll just draw more attention to it.

I've said before, the quality will go up and down as they allocate their budget to which episodes need the most CG/music or whichever ones are most eventful. Don't worry, things will get better for the important bits.

To be honest, I haven't liked animation much since this new style debuted. It's great for CG backgrounds but CG on characters and mecha is just not my cup of tea at all. It just looks so lazy. Okay, we'll use the "fill tool", now we'll use the "brush tool" to add some highlights. There's no more depth of the crazy 1980's shading that went into the pre-painting process of cell design. Modern artists seem to have lost that talent complete.y

Edited May 14, 2008 by ComicKaze

[Duke Togo]

Episodes 1-5 show fairly average 2D animation. Not bad, but not outstanding. Its perfectly fine. Episode 6 was horrible, and we should all hope this drop in quality is only temporary.

[Westlo]

Episodes 1-5 show fairly average 2D animation. Not bad, but not outstanding. Its perfectly fine. Episode 6 was horrible, and we should all hope this drop in quality is only temporary.

You're clueless, no diss but fact.

[eugimon]

I think a lot of people are confusing style with quality, at least as far as episode 4 goes. Episode 4 had a LOT of character movement but the style was loose and at times, almost sketchy. There have been other shows which used this method when animating lots of movment, most recent would be naruto (naruto versus sasuke at the end of the 1st part of show comes to mind) but also in Escaflowne.. particularly in the Movie when Van is fighting the other armor in the middle of the city.

I agree that episode 6 was pretty bad. The animators had a hard time drawing people in profile or even in 3/4 view and anything but the simplist of character animation was either botched or rushed with several frames of movement abruptly left out.

[ComicKaze]

Episodes 1-5 show fairly average 2D animation. Not bad, but not outstanding. Its perfectly fine. Episode 6 was horrible, and we should all hope this drop in quality is only temporary.

Again, episode 4 was as bad as episode 6. I don't know how you can not see that a totally different animation team did 4 as the one that did 5?

Edited May 14, 2008 by ComicKaze

[Westlo]

The actual animation in 4 is better than most scenes from 1-3 & 5, it's the art you have a problem with... it's intentional though.. look at Noein.

I think a lot of people are confusing style with quality, at least as far as episode 4 goes. Episode 4 had a LOT of character movement but the style was loose and at times, almost sketchy. There have been other shows which used this method when animating lots of movment, most recent would be naruto (naruto versus sasuke at the end of the 1st part of show comes to mind) but also in Escaflowne.. particularly in the Movie when Van is fighting the other armor in the middle of the city.

Noein another show by Studio Satelight is full of episodes animated in that style, I wouldn't haveit any other way for that series.. episode 12 is amazing... and yes I remember some people were saying that the Naruto Vs Sasuke fight had bad animation... clueless/ignorant those people... look up what "sakuga" is please...

Edited May 14, 2008 by Westlo

[Mr March]

This thread strengthened the soul of...Zinjo!

[eugimon]

Again, episode 4 was as bad as episode 6. I don't know how you can not see that a totally different animation team did 4 as the one that did 5?

you're mad... The animation in episode 4 was pretty good. Look at the level of detail in Sheryl or Nanase's hair and compare that to ep 6, they are WORLDS apart. Look at how the characters move.. just for instance, after sheryl trips alto, look at the little sidestep she does to step in behind him, the manilla team could not have pulled off that level of character animation. You're looking at the style, which if you don't like is fine, and saying that the quality is bad and that's just false.

Episode 6 had less detail, less character animation and dropped frames, episode 4 had none of that.

[Duke Togo]

I'm clueless, its a fact.

Indeed

[Tobi54]

The art quality of the characters definetly took a hit on EP4, the intro to the miss macross contest, the exchange with Klan Klan after the battle on the dock, and a few of the shots inside Nyan Nyan specifically. I'm going to let you guys go over the difference in animation, but the change in detail of the art is there.

[dreamweaver13]

The 2d animation aside from episode 6 (which was outsourced to a Filipino company.. and it still wasn't as bad as say RahXephon 21...) has been consistently great, even in episode 4 which had very rough and inconsistent character designs the actual movement was still high quality. Anyone who considers this is average has no fing clue about what they are talking about.... average 2d animation does not animate stuff as well as Sheryl concert, Ranka's Nyan Nyan dance and movement through the forest, Alto's hair styling in episode 4, the amount of movement in the Nyan Nyan shop as Klan chases Michael, the movement of Sheryl and Alto as they embarrassingly brake apart hands after running onto the train in episode 5. Average is stuff like Amatsuki, To Love Ru & Kamen no Maid Guy... Frontier is far better than them though it's not in the same class as Seirei no Moribito and Soul Eater... but you can say the same for 99.5% of shows released this decade...

The CG is probably the best looking CG used for a tv series, nothing else really comes close and only OVAs and movies beat this. The backgrounds have been stunning, I really liked this one from episode 6...

http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13890220qv1.jpg

Episode 5 had some really nice background work as well as it showcased Frontier to Sheryl and us viewers, the city backgrounds were just amazing as was the beautiful countryside.

gasp. 2d animation was outsourced to a fil company?? w/c company? i'll find those guys, give them a beer, and say... "do your best! do your best!"

[dreamweaver13]

personally, i don't find fault in the animation. My test is that if on first viewing (meaning no screencaps first, ok?) i don't find anything wrong with the animation, then i enjoy it. and on first viewing, i am enjoing the quality of the series so far.

but for those who have problems with the animation, so far have there been any complaints regarding the animation quality of mecha action? just wondering. since this is a TV show (and not an OAV) maybe the limited budget forced the producers to be consistent with mecha animation more than the rest of the show? Coz if you don't find anything wrong with the mecha, but find fault in character animation, then maybe that's just the reality of budget constraints.

[Morpheus]

Well, I'm not complaining about the animation quality, I started to realize the drop in animation quality after I read the discussions thread . So they got 2-3 different 2D animation studio doing it which may explain the difference in animation quality, so my guess is the CGI scenes are all done by Satelight.

I just hope they improve the animation quality for DVD/Blue-ray or whatever, but for the TV series currently on air, I don't care (as long they didn't draw it like Crayon Shinchan).

[lord_breetai]

Because no one has posted it yet.

The animation quality is obviously inferior to the award winning masterpiece Robotech the Shadow Chronicles.

[Tobi54]

Because no one has posted it yet.

The animation quality is obviously inferior to the award winning masterpiece Robotech the Shadow Chronicles.

That clearly goes without saying!

[Morpheus]

Because no one has posted it yet.

The animation quality is obviously inferior to the award winning masterpiece Robotech the Shadow Chronicles.

Stretch Shadow Chronicle into 26 episode and we probably got the same quality or maybe worse .

[valk1j]

Stretch Shadow Chronicle into 26 episode and we probably got the same quality or maybe worse .

If you stretched Shadow Chronicles to 26 episodes it would be stick figures with big breasts and flashing lights.

[wolfx]

The actual animation in 4 is better than most scenes from 1-3 & 5, it's the art you have a problem with... it's intentional though.. look at Noein.

Noein another show by Studio Satelight is full of episodes animated in that style, I wouldn't haveit any other way for that series.. episode 12 is amazing... and yes I remember some people were saying that the Naruto Vs Sasuke fight had bad animation... clueless/ignorant those people... look up what "sakuga" is please...

Episode 4 had various bad parts but it wasn't the whole episode that was bad. Ep 6 was just...whole episode, so i think that's the difference.

Ahhh....there's a very fine line between "style" and art quality. You raised a good example citing Noein as an example. Noein had its own art style, which was consistent since EPISODE 1. It didn't pretend to be a high budget sci-fi show. It didn't hide that its budget was lower than most anime series of that time. It was just Noien, and people appreciated it for that. Remember the pencil sketch episode? I won't consider that an art degradation but probably there due to artistic reasons (and MAYBE budgetary concerns?)

Frontier is different. Deculture edition blew us away with amazing art , visuals, and music. After the initial euphoria, some of us , me included , were concerned if they could keep this quality throughout the show. Sadly, it seems our worst fears are starting to materialise. They can't. The art is DEFINATELY degrading and the frames per second for animation is also dropping.

One thing that bothers me is Sheryl's hair. Her hair is losing detail on each new episode. The colours become mixed strangely as if its some kinda milkshake mixed with vomit. The official colour for her hair is "Strawberry Blonde" whatever that means, but its not the 1s time anime has such a hair colour. I refer you to Pani Poni Dash.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&...+dash&gbv=2

The hair in that show is amazing....check out the colours, nicely layered and rendered, and the animation of the hair is as if its really hair very unlike various episodes of Frontier where Sheryl's hair seems to be just a blob of vomit. I haven't mentioned this in any threads since i'm sure to rile up the emotions of sheryl fanbois.

Average is stuff like Amatsuki, To Love Ru & Kamen no Maid Guy... Frontier is far better than them though it's not in the same class as Seirei no Moribito and Soul Eater... but you can say the same for 99.5% of shows released this decade...

I agree those are average. Problem is , Frontier is dipping below average right now, at least to me. Even Kamen No Maid Guy and To Love Ru has consistent art. I'm less forgiving than Togo to say that Frontier is average. Remember those anime that were made for the sake of promoting the adult games like Crescent Moon and how the animators didn't bother to make the characters look consistent? That's what i'm seeing with the bad episodes of Frontier. Frontier's art and animation right now is as variable as a valkyrie. The recent Golgo 13 definately has very limited budget and this was obvious since ep 1, but at least its consistent. I think fans are more forgiving if shown a lump of coal that turns into gold, rather than a piece of gold that turns into coal then sh*t, then back to gold.

personally, i don't find fault in the animation. My test is that if on first viewing (meaning no screencaps first, ok?) i don't find anything wrong with the animation, then i enjoy it. and on first viewing, i am enjoing the quality of the series so far.

but for those who have problems with the animation, so far have there been any complaints regarding the animation quality of mecha action? just wondering. since this is a TV show (and not an OAV) maybe the limited budget forced the producers to be consistent with mecha animation more than the rest of the show? Coz if you don't find anything wrong with the mecha, but find fault in character animation, then maybe that's just the reality of budget constraints.

I have absolutely no complaints about the 3D CG. It would seem that Frontier is indeed concentrating in those more than the character 2D art. Reality of budget constraints or not, fact is, there is something terribly wrong with the 2D. People who don't notice it either are infected by fanboy blindness, or just trolling the forums.

[wolfx]

The actual animation in 4 is better than most scenes from 1-3 & 5, it's the art you have a problem with... it's intentional though.. look at Noein.

Noein another show by Studio Satelight is full of episodes animated in that style, I wouldn't haveit any other way for that series.. episode 12 is amazing... and yes I remember some people were saying that the Naruto Vs Sasuke fight had bad animation... clueless/ignorant those people... look up what "sakuga" is please...

I do not agree with this statement.

Noein is a whole different ball game where the characters are made in that style throughout the series. The intention is for low budgets or artistic reasons or both, we won't go into it. (I personally think its both)

I'm 100% sure Frontier isn't intended to have that art "style". Hell it doesn't even start with that "style" in eps 1-2.

[Vifam7]

Perhaps they're just paying another homage to the original series?

[Tobi54]

Closing shot of Sheryl, episode 2:

Closing shot of Sheryl, episode 4:

[Tobi54]

This is what I call the WTF shot, I actually went WTF while watching this episode for the first time, take a peek at the glass on the table, that's pretty fugly

[Kronnang Dunn]

Episodes 1-5 show fairly average 2D animation. Not bad, but not outstanding. Its perfectly fine. Episode 6 was horrible, and we should all hope this drop in quality is only temporary.

Mmmh... After the Milia vs Max knife fight in the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross... Anything is hella good to me, hehe... The good thing about episode 6 is that the so-called "horrible" animation was somehow compensated by a good plot. My own personal opinion...

This is what I call the WTF shot, I actually went WTF while watching this episode for the first time, take a peek at the glass on the table, that's pretty fugly

That's what I call a WTF opinion... (& a WTF sight!!!). Seriously... I didn't even noticed the glass in that scene. However... The way Alto makes the paper plane was SUPERB...

Actually I'm happy to see some "low" quality animation now... since it may indicate that they are going to produce many more episodes than originally planned, hehe...

Edited May 15, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Gubaba]

You're ALL morons. The animation in Frontier sucks. All of it. No exceptions.

Not only is the multi-million-selling Shadow Chronicles in a different class entirely, but Macross Froniter doesn't even come close to the high standard of quality set by Robotech II: The Sentinels (and bettered by Robotech 3000).

I tried to watch the so-called "Deculture" edition, and thought the character art was so sloppy that Alto-whatsisname was going to start crying, "My spoon is too big!"

[eugimon]

Well, I'm not complaining about the animation quality, I started to realize the drop in animation quality after I read the discussions thread . So they got 2-3 different 2D animation studio doing it which may explain the difference in animation quality, so my guess is the CGI scenes are all done by Satelight.

I just hope they improve the animation quality for DVD/Blue-ray or whatever, but for the TV series currently on air, I don't care (as long they didn't draw it like Crayon Shinchan).

3 teams seems very normal to me. You have the regular guys, the C team which is usually an overseas farm and then the A team for important episodes. Naruto and Bleach definitely follow that model.

[eugimon]

Closing shot of Sheryl, episode 2:

Closing shot of Sheryl, episode 4:

What's the point of that? The first shot is a 3/4 profile with lighting to the side, the 2nd had a strong light source from the back. Of course details are going to be washed out. Go try it for yourself, have a friend stand with his back to the morning sun and then try looking up at his face and see how much you can make out.

[wolfx]

You're ALL morons. The animation in Frontier sucks. All of it. No exceptions.

Not only is the multi-million-selling Shadow Chronicles in a different class entirely, but Macross Froniter doesn't even come close to the high standard of quality set by Robotech II: The Sentinels (and bettered by Robotech 3000).

I tried to watch the so-called "Deculture" edition, and thought the character art was so sloppy that Alto-whatsisname was going to start crying, "My spoon is too big!"

Can't agree more. At least Shadow Chronicles...the 2D was awesome....Marlene's boobs were so real....and Rick Hunter's beard...check out that detail compared to the vomit on Sheryl's hair!

[raymond]

Closing shot of Sheryl, episode 2:

Closing shot of Sheryl, episode 4:

Sheryl is french! Look at that mustache! Er, are those supposed to be her lips?

[dreamweaver13]

Can't agree more. At least Shadow Chronicles...the 2D was awesome....Marlene's boobs were so real....and Rick Hunter's beard...check out that detail compared to the vomit on Sheryl's hair!

now i really cannot tell if you're being sarcastic or serious...

[eugimon]

now i really cannot tell if you're being sarcastic or serious...

given how he thinks some of the GitS shots I posted up looked "just fine" I think he's serious...

[wolfx]

given how he thinks some of the GitS shots I posted up looked "just fine" I think he's serious...

Maybe now that we have our own topic, we could restart that train of thought?

Like what did u think was bad with those screenshots?

or maybe i'm gonna regret this.

[eugimon]

Maybe now that we have our own topic, we could restart that train of thought?

Like what did u think was bad with those screenshots?

or maybe i'm gonna regret this.

we're both going to regret it. but those profile shots were hideous. badly drawn face, lacking detail. The major avatar looks like it was taken right out of robotech: SC and that last one is just plain wonky. Her face is akwardly drawn and looks completely flat and her left boob looks like it's hanging down near her belly button.