VM Tech Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) One of my greatest childhood memories is waking up an hour early each morning and watching Robotech and Transformers on the Sci Fi Channel before heading off to the bus stop for school. I didn't know much about the whole splicing and dicing that Harmony Gold was doing back then, but I knew I loved the Lynn Minmei, Rick Hunter, and Lisa Hayes stuff the best. The rest was just blah. Few years later, with the help of the Internet, I would discover this whole Macross being an independent anime series, and I would see people in chatrooms talking about how great Macross Plus was (released in 1995). Unfortunately, it wouldn't be until 2000 when an anime shop opened up nearby that I was able to rent and view the first Macross Plus OVA. I knew I wanted to see the rest, but that was all they had. So after a couple of months of saving up my allowance, I got Macross Plus the Movie (no way I was gonna save up for four VHS tapes). It was AWESOME. I loved it, and whoever I showed it to loved it also. Fast forward eight years. It is now 2008. High-speed Internet (such as my FIOS connection) is the norm, and video is readily available and pirated. Over the past eight years, I never bothered with Macross II or Macross 7 as anime was not as readily accessible back then, but I did watch a couple episodes of Macross Zero which I quickly bored with. Imagine my surprise when browsing a random forum a few days ago, I saw all of the Macross SDF episodes available for download. I was bored, and I wanted to see what the difference was between Robotech and Macross. I should have known better. I got sucked in and had to watch episode after episode. I finally stopped when I got bored around Episode 29 (the Zentraedi are starting to mass a force on post-apocalyptic Earth). I was surprised at how faithful Harmony Gold actually had been, and to be honest, I kind of missed the Robotech opening music. So I start browsing through the Internet some more, and I keep seeing this stuff about Macross: DYRL. Some people like it, some people don't like it. I look up a clip on YouTube, and it looks awesome. In fact, they are now wearing the UN Spacy uniforms that were worn in Macross Plus. Great! I love consistency. And I later did watch each OVA of Macross Plus separately and preferred the more streamlined movie version. I figured I may like a two hour version of Macross better than 36 long episodes. Oops. I downloaded Macross: DYRL and just watched the first thirty minutes of it before just skimming through the rest. WTF!?? I feel like DYRL is a completely different story altogether, just with the same characters. Now I understand why so many people dislike it. It's like an alternate reality. And what's with Minmei nude? Isn't she only 15???? It's left such a sour taste in my mouth, now I wonder if I should give Macross Frontier a try... Macross Zero bored me... And the clips I saw of Macross 7 just cracked me up with the guitars and vampires... And now DYRL has left me pretty confused.... Oh well, just venting. Edited May 12, 2008 by VM Tech
Gubaba Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 Um...no offense intended, but you're not going to get a whole lot of sympathy here.
fifbeat Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 I can see why VM Tech thought Macross 7 was goofy; and Macross Zero was a bore... But DYRL leaving a bad taste in your mouth? Ouch. DYRL is classic, man! It's like the cliff's notes version of the TV series with extra fine-tuning and some partial story changes, great music and in even more dramatic and heartfelt during some scenes... I have no intention of watching Macross Frontier. VM Tech, my advice to you: Watch DYRL again... maybe give it a shot 2 years from now. Watch it serious, with no expectations, and you might be surprised. And if you can, watch it on a DVD or something. There's something about watching DL'd stuff on a PC that just doesn't work with me.
Morpheus Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) First, welcome to MW VM Tech. DYRL is actually a movie set in Macross Universe (they even make a DYRL remake in Mac 7). So I can say the cast in DYRL is actors (not the real one since they probably are having fun with a blackhole at that moment). I fact, DYRL triggers many Minmay fans (like Basara) to introduce singing as a culture shock to stop a war/fighting. One song to end the war, this is portrayed clearly in one of Mac 7 movie: The Galaxy is Calling me. Edited May 12, 2008 by Morpheus
VM Tech Posted May 12, 2008 Author Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) Maybe after I forget about the Macross series and watch DYRL, it might be okay... I just feel like some of the more important aspects of the series were just completely overhauld, not just finetuned. For example... Ichijo and Minmei. I thought the tragic part about their relationship was that they met and bonded before their lives began to wander down separate and very different roads that pretty much killed the chances of them ending up together. Had Ichijo just remained a simple stunt pilot and Minmei just a student who works as a waitress, things would've turned out much different. And the reason Ichijo became a pilot was due to Minmei. Later, Ichijo collected Minmei's pictures because he was trying to keep his memories with her. In DYRL... Ichijo is already a pilot and Minmei is already a star, and the reason Ichijo has her pictures is because he's a fanboy. The humans being captured by the Zentraedi. In the series, I felt this was the defining moment that began a turning point in Ichijo and Hayase's relationship, from their kiss demonstration to when Hayase saves Ichijo from drowning. In DYRL, Kaifun and Minmei kiss and Ichijo is smacked by Hayase when he does it to run away from the Zentraedi. Roy Fokker's death. I don't know, this was just handled completely differently. For one thing, him dying in Claudia's room in a vain attempt to keep his promise to try her pineapple salad had a great impact in the series but obviously that doesn't happen here. Also, Ichijo in the series is all happy go lucky in the hospital thanks to Minmei's visit (arranged by Fokker) before he's suddenly hit with Fokker's death. Anyway, after I saw Fokker die, I knew this wasn't the Macross series I loved. So yeah, I'll definitely watch DYRL after the original series becomes a hazy memory again. Edited May 12, 2008 by VM Tech
fifbeat Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) You have some good points, man. You really do. In fact, I remember hating DYRL when I first watched it (and believe me, I was super obsessed with Robotech) for pretty much the same reasons you mention. Like i said, watch it again, with less expectations and no comparisons to the TV series, and you might find a really enjoyable masterpiece. All in all, I do prefer the TV series more (The "robotech" version, just because the music and the dubbing are top notch and it's what I remember from my childhood)... but the DYRL movie... there's something about it. It's more intense, real and dark. There a lot of special touches and detail in there... the TV series had a long time to play around with situations and character development; that's one of the perks of TV series vs. 90 minute movie... Don't skim through it. Watch it and pay attention. There are some beautiful scenes in there. (are you watching the dubbed or Japanese version w/english subs?) Edited May 12, 2008 by fifbeat
Duke Togo Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=140
Gubaba Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=140 I'm all for directing newbies to the Q&A thread, except...I don't see a question in VM Tech's posts.
Kronnang Dunn Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) Maybe after I forget about the Macross series and watch DYRL, it might be okay... First I should say that I like both Robotech & Macross... & I LOVED DYRL!!!! You should understand the origins of it all. First, DYRL is an animated movie that was released in 1984, a whole 2 years after the animated T.V. series, to capitalize in the commercial success of the TV series in Japan. Shoji Kawamori directed it when he was only 24 years old... At first it was a different take on the same concepts of the TV series... so they could fit more the movie format. Many designs from the TV series were revamped & or modified. The animation is much much better/more fluid & the art is waaay more detailed than that of the TV show. As for the nudity, actually the original Macross also had some in it... but it was censored in the West adaptation. The movie is more violent & graphic than the TV series, because it was aimed at a different, more mature audience. U see, the youngsters who watched the TV series were supposed to be older, you know? The DYRL movie didn't have just one antagonist like the TV series, but 2 factions: Meltrandis (giant alien women) & Zentradis (giant alien men). The film also introduced more information regarding the mysterious Protoculture... The true creators of all (Mankind, Meltrandis & Zentradis). Now, since many other series/OVAS have been released since then, the events in DYRL have been declared to occur in a movie inside a movie (DYRL is a movie made in the Macross universe) that re-tells the events of the T.V. series. Is kinda complex, but AFAIK is the official word from Kawamori himself... Edited May 12, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 One thing to admire about DYRL is that its still one of the best anime movies ever conceived. All of it was hand drawn. If any of you have taken animation classes, you know that it took a lot of hours just drawing each cel. What DYRL is, is a masterpiece. The animation is beautiful. The story is good. The character interaction is great. The music is excellent. Tenshi Enogu is one Minmay's best songs. It is different from the TV series, but if it wasn't there wouldn't be a point for it. The pace at which events occur is probably what upsets most viewers. Since its a movie and retelling, I think most fans of the TV series did not expect certain events to happen so quickly. Roy's death has more impact in this. Its much more dramatic. Rather than death due to combat wounds, this one is death with a sacrifice. Max and Milia's first encounter here is much more intense than in the TV series. Kakizaki's death is almost a joke in this one. Hikaru's killing of Bodolza is a great ending. When I was younger I kept thinking Hikaru's hair in that scene looked similar to Roy's, so I thought it was Hikaru getting revenge, not against Kaifun, but against the Zentraedi that started the war and resulted not only in the deaths of Roy, but much of the human population. The movie is more emotionally dramatic and has more of an impact than the series, in this sense it makes up for the events happening much more quickly.
Kronnang Dunn Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 I have no intention of watching Macross Frontier. BibibibibiBIBIBibibibiiiiiiiiIIIIIIGGGG MISTAKE!!!! (If u really liked DYRL, u should watch it)
Macross007 Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) One of my greatest childhood memories is waking up an hour early each morning and watching Robotech and Transformers on the Sci Fi Channel before heading off to the bus stop for school. I didn't know much about the whole splicing and dicing that Harmony Gold was doing back then, but I knew I loved the Lynn Minmei, Rick Hunter, and Lisa Hayes stuff the best. The rest was just blah. Few years later, with the help of the Internet, I would discover this whole Macross being an independent anime series, and I would see people in chatrooms talking about how great Macross Plus was (released in 1995). Unfortunately, it wouldn't be until 2000 when an anime shop opened up nearby that I was able to rent and view the first Macross Plus OVA. I knew I wanted to see the rest, but that was all they had. So after a couple of months of saving up my allowance, I got Macross Plus the Movie (no way I was gonna save up for four VHS tapes). It was AWESOME. I loved it, and whoever I showed it to loved it also. Fast forward eight years. It is now 2008. High-speed Internet (such as my FIOS connection) is the norm, and video is readily available and pirated. Over the past eight years, I never bothered with Macross II or Macross 7 as anime was not as readily accessible back then, but I did watch a couple episodes of Macross Zero which I quickly bored with. Imagine my surprise when browsing a random forum a few days ago, I saw all of the Macross SDF episodes available for download. I was bored, and I wanted to see what the difference was between Robotech and Macross. I should have known better. I got sucked in and had to watch episode after episode. I finally stopped when I got bored around Episode 29 (the Zentraedi are starting to mass a force on post-apocalyptic Earth). I was surprised at how faithful Harmony Gold actually had been, and to be honest, I kind of missed the Robotech opening music. So I start browsing through the Internet some more, and I keep seeing this stuff about Macross: DYRL. Some people like it, some people don't like it. I look up a clip on YouTube, and it looks awesome. In fact, they are now wearing the UN Spacy uniforms that were worn in Macross Plus. Great! I love consistency. And I later did watch each OVA of Macross Plus separately and preferred the more streamlined movie version. I figured I may like a two hour version of Macross better than 36 long episodes. Oops. I downloaded Macross: DYRL and just watched the first thirty minutes of it before just skimming through the rest. WTF!?? I feel like DYRL is a completely different story altogether, just with the same characters. Now I understand why so many people dislike it. It's like an alternate reality. And what's with Minmei nude? Isn't she only 15???? It's left such a sour taste in my mouth, now I wonder if I should give Macross Frontier a try... Macross Zero bored me... And the clips I saw of Macross 7 just cracked me up with the guitars and vampires... And now DYRL has left me pretty confused.... Oh well, just venting. Stop smoking drug kid. Many people dislike DYRL !?!?!? I want proofs kid. Edited May 12, 2008 by Macross007
fifbeat Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 Well, hook a brotha up! =) I need that and I need a drilled BP-8. Now. BibibibibiBIBIBibibibiiiiiiiiIIIIIIGGGG MISTAKE!!!! (If u really liked DYRL, u should watch it)
Holocause Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 The entire ending battle alone makes DYRL a winner. I can keep repeating that section on my Media player and never get sick of it.
Gubaba Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 Stop smoking drug kid. Many people dislike DYRL !?!?!? I want proofs kid. Yeah, that struck me, too. Let's see... Robotech = great, and faithful to the original Macross. SDF M = good, then boring. DYRL = boring and angering. M+ OVA = boring. M+ Movie = great. M7 = laughable. M0 = boring. Do we have a troll...? Maybe...?
fifbeat Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 The ending of DYRL makes me want to get a beer for some reason! =)
VM Tech Posted May 12, 2008 Author Posted May 12, 2008 Stop smoking drug kid. Many people dislike DYRL !?!?!? I want proofs kid. http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?&...e=show&st=0 Now quit being so condescending.
VM Tech Posted May 12, 2008 Author Posted May 12, 2008 Yeah, that struck me, too. Let's see... Robotech = great, and faithful to the original Macross. SDF M = good, then boring. DYRL = boring and angering. M+ OVA = boring. M+ Movie = great. M7 = laughable. M0 = boring. Do we have a troll...? Maybe...? Wow, I make a simple post about DYRL and suddenly I'm a troll. Let's see, how was Robotech so different from Macross? DYRL, M+ OVA, when did I say they were boring? Man, some people are so defensive for the weirdest reasons.
Mr March Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 I downloaded Macross: DYRL. It was AWESOME. I loved it! Yeah, DYRL? rocks. I'm glad you like it
justvinnie Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?&...e=show&st=0 Now quit being so condescending. To say that someone who prefers the series more than the movie must therefore hate the movie is illogical. I like the series more because the depth of story that a series can afford as compared to a 90 minute movie. That does't mean I don't like DYRL. I actually do, just not as much as the series. vinnie
Gubaba Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 Wow, I make a simple post about DYRL and suddenly I'm a troll. Let's see, how was Robotech so different from Macross? DYRL, M+ OVA, when did I say they were boring? Man, some people are so defensive for the weirdest reasons. Defensive? No. More like bemused. And I just assumed that if you watch the first half-hour of a movie and then skim through the rest, you probably find it...well, less than enthralling. Ditto if you prefer a "streamlined" version of a production. (And...just because more people prefer SDFM to DYRL, it doesn't mean they dislike the latter.) But please understand...a lot of Macrossworlders like ALL (or at least most) of the Macross productions over the years. A lot of us also have a rather dim view of Robotech. So when someone comes in praising Robotech and damning much of Macross, it makes me a little suspicious. If this isn't the case, I unreservedly apologize.
Sergorn Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 Let's see, how was Robotech so different from Macross? DYRL, M+ OVA, when did I say they were boring? Honestly while I can respect your opinions, even If I don't agree with them - the part about how HG remained faithful made me go... "WTF ?" First time I saw Macross I was surprised by how different it was to Robotech. But to make a few points, Macross is different to Robotech in : - Music ; it might sound liek a detail but it means the feel and the atmosphere is very different. Macross has a more melancolic and even contemplative feel, while Robotech has a more militaristic feel. - Charaterization : Some characters really feel different from their Robotech counterparts ; most of Minmay who is a adorable girl in Macross, and a bitching little brat in Robotech. The love triangle is handled way differently, Robotech have Rick having feeling for Lisa out of nowhere from the Mars episodes (with almost a big confession of love when she leave for Earth), while in Macross it only really happens AFTER the War. - Dialogues : a lot of them are just plains differents. That's all. - Naration : Macross has basically no narrative, Robotech always has a narratie every 5 secondes saying pointless stuff - Protocultre : to each is own, but having the first original cultre of the universe changed to basically... Veritech fuel kinda changes a whole lot of stuff about -everything- - The phisolophy behind it : Macross has Minmay sing the very touching and antimilitarist "Ai Wa nagereru" during the final battle, Robotech has her singing "We Will Win" a very militarist and patriotic song. This more than anything else pretty much summarize how Robotech basically betrays everything Macross has always stands for... Admitingly sure, the main plotline between the two series is pretty much the same - but as they say : the devil is in the details, when you get into the details you can really see how Robotech is pretty much the devil-ish corrupted version of Macross. -Sergorn
VM Tech Posted May 12, 2008 Author Posted May 12, 2008 Honestly while I can respect your opinions, even If I don't agree with them - the part about how HG remained faithful made me go... "WTF ?" First time I saw Macross I was surprised by how different it was to Robotech. But to make a few points, Macross is different to Robotech in : - Music ; it might sound liek a detail but it means the feel and the atmosphere is very different. Macross has a more melancolic and even contemplative feel, while Robotech has a more militaristic feel. - Charaterization : Some characters really feel different from their Robotech counterparts ; most of Minmay who is a adorable girl in Macross, and a bitching little brat in Robotech. The love triangle is handled way differently, Robotech have Rick having feeling for Lisa out of nowhere from the Mars episodes (with almost a big confession of love when she leave for Earth), while in Macross it only really happens AFTER the War. - Dialogues : a lot of them are just plains differents. That's all. - Naration : Macross has basically no narrative, Robotech always has a narratie every 5 secondes saying pointless stuff - Protocultre : to each is own, but having the first original cultre of the universe changed to basically... Veritech fuel kinda changes a whole lot of stuff about -everything- - The phisolophy behind it : Macross has Minmay sing the very touching and antimilitarist "Ai Wa nagereru" during the final battle, Robotech has her singing "We Will Win" a very militarist and patriotic song. This more than anything else pretty much summarize how Robotech basically betrays everything Macross has always stands for... Admitingly sure, the main plotline between the two series is pretty much the same - but as they say : the devil is in the details, when you get into the details you can really see how Robotech is pretty much the devil-ish corrupted version of Macross. -Sergorn I'm glad you posted this. The reason so many people demonize Robotech is because of the differences in the details. I haven't seen Robotech since I was in elementary school, but I can tell you this: Robotech was more faithful to Macross than DYRL is. So if so many people hate Robotech for being different from Macross, then you also know the reasons I did not bother to watch DYRL in its entierty.
Morpheus Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (wear cute troll suit) You guys are wrong, both Macross an Robotech are cheap ripoff from Space Gandam V, now thats quality.
Gubaba Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (wear cute troll suit) You guys are wrong, both Macross an Robotech are cheap ripoff from Space Gandam V, now thats quality. Quoted for Truth. Macross is, well, okay...but it doesn't have enough giant spiders or fat kids driving comic relief robots.
Macross007 Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?&...e=show&st=0 Now quit being so condescending. It's "Macross TV or DYRL?, Which is your favourite?", not "Macross TV or DYRL?, Which is your most hated Macross work between the two." For example, I love playing GTA IV more than Mass Effect, but that does mean I hate playing Mass Effect. NO !!! Same with a vast majority of Macross fans regarding SDF Macross and SDF Macross : DYRL. And I will stop being so condescending when I want to, kid. Edited May 12, 2008 by Macross007
Duke Togo Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 I'm confused. I need someone to explain to me why everyone is getting their panties in a twist.
Beltane70 Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (wear cute troll suit) You guys are wrong, both Macross an Robotech are cheap ripoff from Space Gandam V, now thats quality. I want what Morpheus is smoking!
treatment Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 I'm confused. I need someone to explain to me why everyone is getting their panties in a twist. It's a Sunday evening. Everyone's bored for some odd reason. Need a new shiny.
VM Tech Posted May 12, 2008 Author Posted May 12, 2008 It's "Macross TV or DYRL?, Which is your favourite?", not "Macross TV or DYRL?, Which is your most hated Macross work between the two." For example, I love playing GTA IV more than Mass Effect, but that does mean I hate playing Mass Effect. NO !!! Same with a vast majority of Macross fans regarding SDF Macross and SDF Macross : DYRL. And I will stop being so condescending when I want to. That's great. Except I never said anyone "hated" DYRL. And there's no point in arguing over semantics, the point of what I said was that there were obviously some people already who had issues compared to the series.
Macross007 Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 Robotech was more faithful to Macross than DYRL is. I bet you are using a really strong drug. At least, you are making people laugh. Keep entertaining people kid because you are great at it.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) Robotech was more faithful to Macross than DYRL is. No it wasn't. That's great. Except I never said anyone "hated" DYRL. And there's no point in arguing over semantics, the point of what I said was that there were obviously some people already who had issues compared to the series. Yeah but not most, just most in that poll, not most anime fans in general. Even in that thread, there wasn't that much difference in numbers so that was a poor source of evidence. Edited May 12, 2008 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0
Gubaba Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 It's a Sunday evening. Everyone's bored for some odd reason. Need a new shiny. Pretty much, yeah.
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