David Hingtgen Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 I assume that due to anime magic (as in, you can easily control a full battroid well enough to make it play the piano while standing on one foot using little more than current airplane controls) having a WSO etc to operate radar/weapons would be unnecessary.
RedWolf Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 I wonder ... How long do you guys suppose the Global is? 1,200 meters like the original Macross or 1,620 meters as with the SDF-2's original production plan?
ChronoReverse Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 (edited) Anyone else notice that little trick Brera used to get awayafter Alto got behind him? It had that weird pink trail thingy while it almost "teleported" into position (cobra?) at around 19:14. This isn't like inertial vectoring nor it is merely overwhelming vernier power. Anyone have any guesses? Edited July 5, 2008 by ChronoReverse
Final Vegeta Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 Anyone else notice that little trick Brera used to get awayafter Alto got behind him? It had that weird pink trail thingy while it almost "teleported" into position (cobra?) at around 19:14. This isn't like inertial vectoring nor it is merely overwhelming vernier power. Anyone have any guesses? Bunshin. Also called Afterimage. Very common in Super Robot Wars FV
Master Dex Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 I just noticed that the gunpod is stored way forward of where the arms are in fighter mode on the VF-25. At 18:25 of episode 13, when Alto transforms from gerwalk to fighter and tries to evade Brera's VF-27, we see the underside. It looks like it's stored where the head on the VF-1 would be. Considering how long the nose section of the VF-25 is, it doesn't seem to be a problem of being too far forward. That is a good catch actually. Some have been theorizing the gunpod isn't stored on the VF-25's arms because in ep.12 we see Mikhails gunpod attached to the underside in gerwalk mode. Further evidence that the gunpods don't attach the arms is how Alto stored his gunpod on his battroid's leg when he went to stab Temjin.
hobbes221 Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 I assume that due to anime magic (as in, you can easily control a full battroid well enough to make it play the piano while standing on one foot using little more than current airplane controls) having a WSO etc to operate radar/weapons would be unnecessary. Maybe, but then who would tell you that they think it's a bad idea to buzz the tower?
Zinjo Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 I wonder ... How long do you guys suppose the Global is? 1,200 meters like the original Macross or 1,620 meters as with the SDF-2's original production plan? My guess would be 1620 since the Macross was limited by the size of the ASS-1 which it was a humanized restoration of.
ron5864 Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 The VF-25 must be made of Gundanium alloy. It plowed a small patch of Gallia4 and can still fly.
badboy00z Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 The VF-25 must be made of Gundanium alloy. It plowed a small patch of Gallia4 and can still fly. Well the VF-1 smashed into concrete and can still fly...ECA FTW.
Chief Guld Goa Bowman Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 How does Klan, the other members of Pixie Squadron or Themjin control the Queadluuns. I know the control system has wires connected to the fingers, but exactly how does that work?
Mr March Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 The VF-25 must be made of Gundanium alloy. It plowed a small patch of Gallia4 and can still fly. The Valkyries have been regularly plowing into city blocks (VF-1D in SDF Macross), ramming through bridges (VF-1A in DYRL), crashing into the ground (VT-1 in DYRL), dragging on canyon floors (VF-11B in Macross Plus) and now belly flopping on the turf (VF-25F in Macross Frontier) yet continue to operate afterward. I think it's pretty consistent series-wide It also seems incredibly difficult to stop a Valkyrie short of completely destroying it. The transformation systems continue to function even with limbs missing and it seems a Valkyrie can still function even when it loses half it's power through a destroyed leg. No doubt the energy converting armor is a significant factor in the durability of the Valkyries, but collisions like those in the anime would place extreme stress on both the internal frame and machinery. It's clear the Valkyries are the pinnacle of robust, reliable military hardware, a doubly impressive feat of engineering considering how complex it would be to build a transforming aerospace fighter craft in comparison to any other, far simpler vehicle.
VF5SS Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 Don't forget the YF-21 busting though a building just to get a sneak attack.
Sumdumgai Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 Not only busting through a building but having little visible damage from doing so (can't remember if the fixed head laser was busted or not). I'm glad that the VF-25 didn't carry over the fixed head laser from the YF-21/VF-22, that has to be the weakest weapon system on the 21/22.
Master Dex Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 Don't forget the YF-21 busting though a building just to get a sneak attack. That was intentional rather than crashing into something so the 21 had more control of its breaking through stuff, less damage is likely in that case regardless of the fact the ECS seems to do a superb job at protecting the valk.
Sumdumgai Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 I just realized something else after going back and watching through previous episodes. The gunpod isn't always mounted in the same place. In episode 4 and 7 the gunpod is mounted in the traditional area for valkyries (under the arms), with the gunpod butt resting just under the end of the shield. In episode 12 the gunpods are mounted more forward on the VF-25 and can still be stowed under the body in gerwalk (not possible on the VF-1, VF-11, and 19-series) at some points. When Temjin is chasing after Alto in the Q-rea, the gunpod is mounted under the arms again. Then in episode 13 the gunpod is stored forward of the arms again, during the dogfight with Brera at the end of the episode. Looks like there's two areas the gunpod can be mounted in fighter mode. The hands stay out in fighter mode like on the VF-0, you can see the fingers on the underside of the VF-25 in episode 12 just after Alto flies away from Temjin who began shooting his rifle at him.
Mr March Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 Not only busting through a building but having little visible damage from doing so (can't remember if the fixed head laser was busted or not). I'm glad that the VF-25 didn't carry over the fixed head laser from the YF-21/VF-22, that has to be the weakest weapon system on the 21/22. Given that this is the Macross World forums (hehehe), I'm assuming "weakest weapon system" means "it looks weak and fragile for gun", because the single head cannon on the VF-22 Sturmvogel II is actually one of the more powerful guns on the Valkyrie. It's specifically described as a fixed high-powered converging energy cannon.
Sumdumgai Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) Given that this is the Macross World forums (hehehe), I'm assuming "weakest weapon system" means "it looks weak and fragile for gun", because the single head cannon on the VF-22 Sturmvogel II is actually one of the more powerful guns on the Valkyrie. It's specifically described as a fixed high-powered converging energy cannon. Well "weakest weapon system" was meant with the meaning of "most difficult to use", since in order to aim it the pilot would have to move the valkyrie around to line up the target, as opposed to the VF-11 and YF/VF-19 which could swivel the barrel about to aim without having to move the valkyrie. I certainly didn't mean that it didn't have punch. Although to be honest I think all the head lasers look fragile. Hell the YF-19 had its head laser broken off during the battle with Guld. I also finally put my finger on what was nagging in my mind about the Ex-Gear rifle that's included in the VF-25. Its shape reminds me of the HK G11 experimental rifle that used caseless ammunition. It has that box-like look to it, except that the Ex-Gear rifle is longer. Edited July 7, 2008 by Sumdumgai
Mr March Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) Given the head cannon is a converging energy cannon, I think it very likely the weapon can fire off-axis. Max's VF-22S converging energy cannons were shown to fire with variable axis in fighter mode and it sure looks like the YF-19 and the VF-25 head cannons can do the same. Besides, angle of fire seems to bear little upon how much the cannon is used. Macross is notorious for glorifying the gun pod at the expense of almost all the other Valkyrie weapons. The head cannons are arguably the easiest to use, most accurate weapon on most Valkyries, capable of damaging any other mecha (SDFM, DYRL, M0), but they are ignored even when pointing forward and mounted in a movable turret As for damage, that's drama and necessity of the action. An animator wanted to depict a damaged Valkyrie and the easiest way is to snap off an extremity; it's not because the animators felt it important for the audience to be aware that head cannons are weak. The YF-21's arm snapped off to serve plot and show the YF-19 had a superior weight and leverage advantage, not because the animators want us to believe the YF-21 has weak arms. Edited July 7, 2008 by Mr March
grss1982 Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 The Valkyries have been regularly plowing into city blocks (VF-1D in SDF Macross), ramming through bridges (VF-1A in DYRL), crashing into the ground (VT-1 in DYRL), dragging on canyon floors (VF-11B in Macross Plus) and now belly flopping on the turf (VF-25F in Macross Frontier) yet continue to operate afterward. I think it's pretty consistent series-wide It also seems incredibly difficult to stop a Valkyrie short of completely destroying it. The transformation systems continue to function even with limbs missing and it seems a Valkyrie can still function even when it loses half it's power through a destroyed leg. No doubt the energy converting armor is a significant factor in the durability of the Valkyries, but collisions like those in the anime would place extreme stress on both the internal frame and machinery. It's clear the Valkyries are the pinnacle of robust, reliable military hardware, a doubly impressive feat of engineering considering how complex it would be to build a transforming aerospace fighter craft in comparison to any other, far simpler vehicle. Don't forget the YF-19 plowing through the dirt in battroid mode. For a while I even thought the nose of the fighter was ruined with that stunt by Isamu.
Mr March Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 LOL And how many times was the YF-21 thrown upon it's back in Battroid mode, but the 3-dimensional thrust vectoring nozzle vanes didn't have a scratch. All the Valkyries take a beating and keep on ticking.
d3v Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 Reactive Armor. FTW! Actually, reactive armor would detonate on impact.
Morpheus Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 Actually, reactive armor would detonate on impact. it supposed to be 'Energy Converting Armor FTW' I proposed new design for ghost/valk series: YF-30 WoodPecker, fuselage is reinforced ECA with barrier shielding, no wings, in fact the entire craft is shaped like a missile. Ramming enemy vessel at full speed will be it main attack method The attack name is "Guld Maneuver 101".
d3v Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) it supposed to be 'Energy Converting Armor FTW' I proposed new design for ghost/valk series: YF-30 WoodPecker, fuselage is reinforced ECA with barrier shielding, no wings, in fact the entire craft is shaped like a missile. Ramming enemy vessel at full speed will be it main attack method The attack name is "Guld Maneuver 101". Seems more like a reusable surface-to-air missile to me. Might as well add speakers and a sound booster in case you encounter an enemy that only be defeated by the power of song. Edited July 7, 2008 by d3v
Kronnang Dunn Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 it supposed to be 'Energy Converting Armor FTW' I proposed new design for ghost/valk series: YF-30 WoodPecker, fuselage is reinforced ECA with barrier shielding, no wings, in fact the entire craft is shaped like a missile. Ramming enemy vessel at full speed will be it main attack method The attack name is "Guld Maneuver 101". I propose the VF-30 "Avenger"...
d3v Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) I propose the VF-30 "Avenger"... Alas, due to it's high cost, it'll only get deployed in limited quantities, with one of the first going to a virturoid AI idol singer who wants to spread of the power of its song to our enemies. Edited July 7, 2008 by d3v
Kronnang Dunn Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) Alas, due to it's high cost, it'll only get deployed in limited quantities, with one of the first going to a virturoid AI idol singer who wants to spread of the power of its song to our enemies. Yeah, new "BANSHEE" Sound Booster all the way baby!!! Btw... I don't know if anyone has noticed this before, but it seems the Vajra Queen has 2 BFGs... Edited July 7, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn
Bowen Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 Yeah, I noticed that as well Due to her humongous size they don't look so 'big' (at least relatively) as the one on the red lobster though ^^
kalvasflam Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 Probably talked about before, but isn't it interesting that the VF-27 main gun seem to operate in two modes, either it fires a concentrated beam or uses what look like bullets. This was very noticeable both in ep 13 and ep 9 I thought. I wonder if the gun itself actually have two magazines or if the scatter beam are actually just smaller pulses of energy. Besides that the armament of the VF-27 is also quite unique, looks like at least two sets of additional guns mounted on the outboard engines, micro-missiles stored internally. I wonder how many units there are actually, so far we've seen about three of those planes, where are the others I wonder?
d3v Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 Probably talked about before, but isn't it interesting that the VF-27 main gun seem to operate in two modes, either it fires a concentrated beam or uses what look like bullets. This was very noticeable both in ep 13 and ep 9 I thought. I wonder if the gun itself actually have two magazines or if the scatter beam are actually just smaller pulses of energy. Besides that the armament of the VF-27 is also quite unique, looks like at least two sets of additional guns mounted on the outboard engines, micro-missiles stored internally. I wonder how many units there are actually, so far we've seen about three of those planes, where are the others I wonder? I'm leaning more towards the gun being able to fire in both pulse and BFG mode.
VF-25 Messiah Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 I'm leaning more towards the gun being able to fire in both pulse and BFG mode. Definatly two modes. The barrel is closed when firing in rapid fire, but 'opens up' with energy charging between the two halves of it before firing in BFG mode, kind of like the BFG's of capital ships in SDF:M.
Mr March Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 The VF-27 gun definitely comes across as a converging energy beam cannon in both firing modes; one lower powered, rapid-fire mode for anti-fighter combat and a slow firing, high-energy mode for anti-ship combat. The forward guns on the outboard engines of the VF-27 remind me of the large beam guns on the VF-4 Lightning III. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the VF-27 was armed with only beam weapons and lasers.
Sumdumgai Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 Mr. March you hit it dead on. I also immediately thought of the VF-4 when the forward guns on the outboard engines of the VF-27 came out.
kalvasflam Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 One other interesting thing, was it just me, or did the PPB knife from the VF-27 look quite a bit larger than the puny knife on the VF-25
taksraven Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 One other interesting thing, was it just me, or did the PPB knife from the VF-27 look quite a bit larger than the puny knife on the VF-25 I think you will find thats a PPB retractable sword as opposed to a knife. Same concept weapon that Brera used to halve the Hydra. Taksraven (ps, don't say that its PPB, just because its green, glows, and easily slices through the enemy some people don't think its a PPB)
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