Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread II *Read 1st Post*

[Graham]

Well, with rogue Zentradi always being a threat, I bet every fleet has at least 1 set of speakers for a Minmei attack...

Makes sense to me.

To be honest, I'm surprised at least 1 Jamming Bird type squadron per coloney fleet isn't standard.

Graham

[Zinjo]

Makes sense to me.

To be honest, I'm surprised at least 1 Jamming Bird type squadron per coloney fleet isn't standard.

Graham

Well the Jamming Birds were largely ineffective.

However, having a set of speaker pods is reasonable...

[ChronoReverse]

They're largely ineffective against Protodelvin but they'd almost certainly be useful against rogue Zentraidi.

[Garou Kuroryuu]

I seem to be alone on this one, but I really hated the speaker-pod thing on Michel's VF. Was about to puke when I saw the VF-25 descending with those speakers under the wings, lights flashing and all that.

It looked like Michel's VF-25 just got out of West Coast Customs "Pimp my ride" style ¬¬U

[d3v]

I seem to be alone on this one, but I really hated the speaker-pod thing on Michel's VF. Was about to puke when I saw the VF-25 descending with those speakers under the wings, lights flashing and all that.

It looked like Michel's VF-25 just got out of West Coast Customs "Pimp my ride" style ¬¬U

Meh, they should've used a Proper Sound booster so that Ranka could project Song Energy.

[Garou Kuroryuu]

Meh, they should've used a Proper Sound booster so that Ranka could project Song Energy.

I don't think that would have made me happier either.

I find the the whole "sound force/energy" concept on Valkyries (speaker rounds/missiles/pods, guitar control sticks and such) childish and silly. That's the main reason why I haven't watched M7. They go beyond my suspension of disbelief capability.

[IAD]

Yeah, pretty much the same reaction here.... "UHG! Speakers! With lights!"

I wouldn't have minded so much if they were a little smaller, and mounted in fairings, with four-petal 'ports' that open on the front...

And maybe only two of them.

And no lights.

(Picky enough? )

~Luke

[David Hingtgen]

Whoa, wait... It has vertical stabilizers! ("Rudders", see attached.) Again, pretty small for a plane that big, and quite close to the presumed center of gravity, so they don't have a large moment arm at all... That being the case, in real life, they wouldn't be all that effective.

~Luke

??? Looks very SR-71-ish with regards to the v.stabs to me, and the SR-71's are quite effective---they're slab surfaces, with a HUGE range of movement.

[IAD]

But I would estimate the center-of-gravity on the -27 is similar to that of the SV-51, which would put it right at the LE of the wing root. (This is balanced for stable, non-computer-augumented flight, so it could be even futher back, as per the F-16.) This places the fins quite close to the CG, and thus, with little leverage, I doubt they would be very powerful.

The SR-71, with its long nose strakes, balances much further forwards, (well ahead of the 'wing' as I recall) resulting in a significantly longer moment arm.

~Luke

Edited July 3, 2008 by IAD

[badboy00z]

IAD are you working on any new projects?

[hobbes221]

and I suppose SMS has special atmosphere reentry resistant compatible speaker pods lying around in their hangar just for the sake of it?? ahahaha

Since we didn't see the reentry they could have had some kind of covers that blew off once he was in the atmosphere.

[Duke Togo]

For the record, the The Megaroad-03 SDF-4 was launched in 2014 (according to the Compendium).

[Morpheus]

For the record, the The Megaroad-03 SDF-4 was launched in 2014 (according to the Compendium).

You mean SDF-4 Izumo?

(hides...)

Alto finally use his AA laser gun against Brera during the dogfight and Brera is about to use his wing booster cannon when Grace call him off. Not to mention epi.13 confirm that VF-27 does indeed have a retractable knife on the left arm.Another hint is that both VF-25 and VF-27 doesn't have internal missile launcher, probably

Edited July 4, 2008 by Morpheus

[d3v]

You mean SDF-4 Izumo?

(hides...)

Don't you mean Liberator?

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone brought that up.

Edited July 4, 2008 by d3v

[hobbes221]

OK so episode 12 has been out for days, but I have'nt seen anyone raise eyebrows at Alto's VF-25 suddenly having a backseat? Magic??? Even Mikhail's VF had a fracking backseat.

I mean check this out:

No silhoutte of backseat seen:

http://i27.tinypic.com/301kdv8.jpg

Backseat later on in episode:

http://i27.tinypic.com/5we4qp.jpg

NOTE: if viewed from the side you should theoritically see the silhoutte of the backseat.

I mean what's up with that.

BTW, pics were taken from Random Curiosity.

Looking over the 25 I think that it was designed from the start with the second seat in there for a few reasons that I could think of. One, with the way that a VF has to break and fold to go from fighter to battroid the space for the second seat would have to be there in the first place or else you would have a great design for a single seat Valkyrie, hand it over to NUNS guys and they come back and say 'great! we love it, btw where is the two seat model?'. oops back to the drawing board. Two, a look at fighters today show a lot of two seater are being made in order to handle the work load (makes me think that the RVF-25 should have a backseater in it). Three, having the second seat always there makes the 25 useful for search and rescue work out in space, and as to why Alto didn't use it when he rescued Luca it could be just that there was no time or the space of the second seat was taken up by added avionics for ether the dorsal radome, ventral ELINT fin, or for drone control.

Oh and as for not seeing the back seat it could just be folded down and out of the way, so that you would just be seeing the back of seat in the first sceens.

Edited July 4, 2008 by hobbes221

[Chief Guld Goa Bowman]

You mean SDF-4 Izumo?

(hides...)

Alto finally use his AA laser gun against Brera during the dogfight and Brera is about to use his wing booster cannon when Grace call him off. Not to mention epi.13 confirm that VF-27 does indeed have a retractable knife on the left arm.Another hint is that both VF-25 and VF-27 doesn't have internal missile launcher, probably

The VF-27 does have internal missiles launchers on the wing mounted engines, the exit ports are on the outside of the engines.

[d3v]

...as to why Alto didn't use it when he rescued Luca it could be just that there was no time or the space of the second seat was taken up by added avionics for ether the dorsal radome, ventral ELINT fin, or for drone control.

Or, the rear seat simply wasn't designed to take an Ex-Gear.

[Chief Guld Goa Bowman]

Does the VF-27 cockpit actually have a virtual reality imaging system similar to the YF-19/VF-19 wrap around imaging system or does Brera use his implants like Grace to display the VR system?

[Shun]

Looking over the 25 I think that it was designed from the start with the second seat in there for a few reasons that I could think of. One, with the way that a VF has to break and fold to go from fighter to battroid the space for the second seat would have to be there in the first place or else you would have a great design for a single seat Valkyrie, hand it over to NUNS guys and they come back and say 'great! we love it, btw where is the two seat model?'. oops back to the drawing board. Two, a look at fighters today show a lot of two seater are being made in order to handle the work load (makes me think that the RVF-25 should have a backseater in it). Three, having the second seat always there makes the 25 useful for search and rescue work out in space, and as to why Alto didn't use it when he rescued Luca it could be just that there was no time or the space of the second seat was taken up by added avionics for ether the dorsal radome, ventral ELINT fin, or for drone control.

Oh and as for not seeing the back seat it could just be folded down and out of the way, so that you would just be seeing the back of seat in the first sceens.

yeah the the back seat is probably folded down.

also since the vf-25 is still a prototype, 2 seats are probably meant for training as seen in the latest episode 13 - Sheryl having duplicate control sticks in the back seat.

Or, the rear seat simply wasn't designed to take an Ex-Gear.

yup, noticed that the back seat didn't have an Ex-Gear.

Does the VF-27 cockpit actually have a virtual reality imaging system similar to the YF-19/VF-19 wrap around imaging system or does Brera use his implants like Grace to display the VR system?

Good point - could be either one.

but in ep 13, when vf-27's gun was shot, there was a momentary lapse in the imagery suggesting that it is due to damage or shock to the vf-27... so i guess it's the vf-27's VR system.

[Chief Guld Goa Bowman]

yeah the the back seat is probably folded down.

also since the vf-25 is still a prototype, 2 seats are probably meant for training as seen in the latest episode 13 - Sheryl having duplicate control sticks in the back seat.

yup, noticed that the back seat didn't have an Ex-Gear.

Good point - could be either one.

but in ep 13, when vf-27's gun was shot, there was a momentary lapse in the imagery suggesting that it is due to damage or shock to the vf-27... so i guess it's the vf-27's VR system.

Maybe the VF-27 does use a virtual reality imaging system, then I guess Brera use his implants to control the valkryie like Guld used the BCS to operate the YF-21.

[LordDremen]

Maybe the VF-27 does use a virtual reality imaging system, then I guess Brera use his implants to control the valkryie like Guld used the BCS to operate the YF-21.

I think due to the implants most of the imaging system is shunted into Brera's mind similar to the way cyborgs control technology and communicate through networks in Ghost in the shell SAC, also it must have it's root in the BCS system that was shelved after Guld(you, lol) maned up and did what was needed, it's only natural that a technology based colony fleet would dig up tech that was similar to it's needed goals.

[Roy Focker]

I gotta ask why would anybody want their body cut up a replaced with cyborg parts?

Sure the Zentradi had such parts in their bodies but for someone raised in human culture wouldn't they avoid it? It gives special abilities and it better then being disabled. I can't see people willing go through such operations.

[SymphonicRain]

As for why Brera turned up as a cyborg, its quite easy to guess that it was probably the only way to save him due to possible mortal injuries from the incident.

As for Grace, assuming she was a human, it gives you the strength, power, versality of Major Motoko. Very useful for covert and military operations. Of course, I pretty much doubt the Galaxy will allow all of their citizens to have access to equipments and parts Grace uses.

Now, as for people, who knows. Maybe it gives them better and efficient way to communicate. Easier to surf the network, listen to music, watch movies without annoying the guy beside you. It might give people better lifespan since they may avoid certain diseases or organ failure as well as better resistance and durability to their bodies resulting in high mortality rate.

Edited July 5, 2008 by SymphonicRain

[RedWolf]

I gotta ask why would anybody want their body cut up a replaced with cyborg parts?

Sure the Zentradi had such parts in their bodies but for someone raised in human culture wouldn't they avoid it? It gives special abilities and it better then being disabled. I can't see people willing go through such operations.

Unless one wants longevity or immortality.

A full blooded human's lifespan is nothing compared to a Zentradi.

Now the Grace we now know could be just an AI.

But as we've seen with Sharon Apple there needs to be a human personality template as fully sentient AI has not been achieved without one in 2040.

So there could have been a real Grace O'Connor we just don't know if her real body is still alive.

The case may also apply to Brera Stern.

From what we know from Macross Plus there have been attemps at AI with emotion chips but that was a failure due to the self preservation mentality and irrationality of AI.

Given that the BCS, the AI emotion interface and the Mind System (Macross 7 Trash) were deemed too dangerous I see why in such places as Frontier cybernetics is banned.

[Master Dex]

I gotta ask why would anybody want their body cut up a replaced with cyborg parts?

Sure the Zentradi had such parts in their bodies but for someone raised in human culture wouldn't they avoid it? It gives special abilities and it better then being disabled. I can't see people willing go through such operations.

Depends on what you want or your reasoning. I have nothing against being cybernetically or even genetically augmented. As those fields of research grow and someday such things be come available, I can see myself willing to have a few computer chips installed in my brain for various purposes. However I don't think I'll be wanting mechanical limbs except for the scenario if I were to lose one of my existing limbs in an accident.

[d3v]

also since the vf-25 is still a prototype, 2 seats are probably meant for training as seen in the latest episode 13 - Sheryl having duplicate control sticks in the back seat.

I believe it's already furhter along than the prototype phase since it's already undergoing combat trials.

[azrael]

Depends on what you want or your reasoning. I have nothing against being cybernetically or even genetically augmented. As those fields of research grow and someday such things be come available, I can see myself willing to have a few computer chips installed in my brain for various purposes. However I don't think I'll be wanting mechanical limbs except for the scenario if I were to lose one of my existing limbs in an accident.

Ghost in the Shell used fairly logical reasons; the body was FUBARed, replacement limbs, black market enhancements and the lot. Brera's body could have been FUBARed. But Grace? This is just one of those unanswered questions at the moment.

[grss1982]

Speaking of Ex-Gears, I just realized there was a lot of Ex-Gear Love in this episode.

http://i30.tinypic.com/33lyumg.png

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5538/97646265dr5.png

http://i31.tinypic.com/1zd0rwh.png

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/2128/94728810gc0.png

But could someone tell me why they remind me vaguely of Robotech???

Yes, I saw Robotech, but only the Macross part, the rest I only saw some snippets of it in the Intarnetz and some old VHS tapes.

BTW I'm just curious is it feasible to use Ex-Gears as powered armor for miclone infantry?

Edited July 5, 2008 by grss1982

[Sumdumgai]

I just noticed that the gunpod is stored way forward of where the arms are in fighter mode on the VF-25. At 18:25 of episode 13, when Alto transforms from gerwalk to fighter and tries to evade Brera's VF-27, we see the underside. It looks like it's stored where the head on the VF-1 would be. Considering how long the nose section of the VF-25 is, it doesn't seem to be a problem of being too far forward.

I don't see why it wouldn't be feasible to use Ex-Gears as powered armor for miclone infantry. Something that protects the user more and has better weaponry, like a miclone sized Q-rau/Q-rea, Nj-Ger, or even regults would be better for mechanized infantry.

In one of the other threads someone brought up the point of the VF-25 being an optional 2-seater that doesn't have an Ex-Gear for a co-pilot.

When Mihail brought Ranka, it's not like we know her to have any experience in using an Ex-Gear so he might not have brought one for her to use. Same for Alto and his VF-25. It looks like he was able to set up a co-pilot seat, but didn't have any spare Ex-Gears stored with it. While Sheryl has used an ex-gear and may have had training since that episode, it's not like one seemed to be available for her to use while going with Mihail.

Maybe the co-pilot can be equipped with an Ex-Gear if one is available.

Edited July 5, 2008 by Sumdumgai

[hobbes221]

In one of the other threads someone brought up the point of the VF-25 being an optional 2-seater that doesn't have an Ex-Gear for a co-pilot.

When Mihail brought Ranka, it's not like we know her to have any experience in using an Ex-Gear so he might not have brought one for her to use. Same for Alto and his VF-25. It looks like he was able to set up a co-pilot seat, but didn't have any spare Ex-Gears stored with it. While Sheryl has used an ex-gear and may have had training since that episode, it's not like one seemed to be available for her to use while going with Mihail.

Maybe the co-pilot can be equipped with an Ex-Gear if one is available.

Good point, with Ranka in the back seat as someone who has no training in an Ex-Gear it would be a problem if she needed to eject for the VF only to find herself now falling through the sky in something that she could not control as to just having a ejection seat with a 'chute.

Edited July 5, 2008 by hobbes221

[Kai]

Yeah, that 2 seat discussion would have been more appropriate for this topic. Someone mentioned it and it seems logical for a multi role fighter. Multi role versions of aircraft like the Rafale and Flankers have a GIB to handle the weapons etc. So why not a 2 seat multi role valk? Maybe not as glamorous as a single seat but potentially more capable and an extra pair of eyes must be useful. Since the Ex gear doesn´t seem to act like a g-suit and I think only funtions as a suit when out of the aircraft, do away with it , free up space and stick a WSO in the back.

And the image of Ranka in Ex gear cracks me up.

Edited July 5, 2008 by Kai

[hobbes221]

Does the VF-27 cockpit actually have a virtual reality imaging system similar to the YF-19/VF-19 wrap around imaging system or does Brera use his implants like Grace to display the VR system?

Right now after having seen ep 13 I am leaning towards Brera using his implants as oppose to a wrap around system due to the fact that when his gun pod was destroyed there was that moment when the display fuzzed out and you could see that he had on a flight helmet. i can't think of a reason that a wrap around imaging system would remove the helmet from sight.

[Mr March]

Speaking of Ex-Gears, I just realized there was a lot of Ex-Gear Love in this episode.

There's plenty to love.

I really enjoy watching the new EX-Gear system. I also like how the creators have continued to use the EX-Gear throughout the series. Sometimes in lesser shows, stuff like that will be shown once and then forgotten. But Macross Frontier is doing a good job remaining focused and using their own creations intelligently. I'm not reminded of Robotech in any way, other than in the most vague terms that Mospeada and Frontier both feature powered armors. The EX-Gear is it's own creation and I don't see anymore similarity between the two than I do between Macross itself, Iron Man, Aliens, Halo, Fallout, Star Wars, etc.

I also noticed that the head unit laser cannons on the VF-25 Messiah got some love while in Fighter mode. Alto uses the guns to fire rearward upon Brera's VF-27 during their dogfight. It was really cool to see those guns in action.

[grss1982]

There's plenty to love.

I really enjoy watching the new EX-Gear system. I also like how the creators have continued to use the EX-Gear throughout the series. Sometimes in lesser shows, stuff like that will be shown once and then forgotten. But Macross Frontier is doing a good job remaining focused and using their own creations intelligently. I'm not reminded of Robotech in any way, other than in the most vague terms that Mospeada and Frontier both feature powered armors. The EX-Gear is it's own creation and I don't see anymore similarity between the two than I do between Macross itself, Iron Man, Aliens, Halo, Fallout, Star Wars, etc.

I also noticed that the head unit laser cannons on the VF-25 Messiah got some love while in Fighter mode. Alto uses the guns to fire rearward upon Brera's VF-27 during their dogfight. It was really cool to see those guns in action.

Smells of Macross Plus Homage.

[d3v]

In one of the other threads someone brought up the point of the VF-25 being an optional 2-seater that doesn't have an Ex-Gear for a co-pilot.

When Mihail brought Ranka, it's not like we know her to have any experience in using an Ex-Gear so he might not have brought one for her to use. Same for Alto and his VF-25. It looks like he was able to set up a co-pilot seat, but didn't have any spare Ex-Gears stored with it. While Sheryl has used an ex-gear and may have had training since that episode, it's not like one seemed to be available for her to use while going with Mihail.

Maybe the co-pilot can be equipped with an Ex-Gear if one is available.

The only problem is that the space in the back seems too small to fit an Ex-gear. Also, the Ex-gear used by the VF-25 seems to be built into the seat itself.