Morpheus Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Since it seems that there are no internal launchers on the legs at least (unless they're there and someone could edit the scan to point out where they are) I'm wondering if the VF-25 is dependent on it's FAST Packs for most of its weaponry. Then where did Gilliam got missiles when he jettisoned his FP in epi.1? He attack the Vajra in the city with at least 2 medium missiles.
Major Focker Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) Shattering only depends upon the structure of the material. I thought that even something as strong a titanium will shatter under sufficient stress. Perhaps the Valkyries do just use high-strength glass or high-impact plastic for the canopy, but the ECA would mean the canopy is a lot tougher. It's either that or a "super material", otherwise Hikaru would have been paste when he dove through that metal bridge and Isamu would have made a nice rug after his canopy-first drag along the canyon floor speaking of shattering, did anybody else notice that when the VF-27 lost its leg in ep9, it looked more like it shattered than got blown off? shattering is usually associated with materials of crystalline or lattice structures. they can be very strong (eg. diamonds) while being light, but when they reach their limit they fail catastrophically by shattering (rather than bending or breaking, and usually in whole sections rather than just at the stress point). pretty sure crystalline materials have high compressive strength, but can't recall whether it was their weakness in tensile or shear strength which limits their applicability as a building material. in any case, i was wondering if overtech solved this and are using them on VF armor, well at least for the VF-27. could explain the exceptional acceleration of the purple fighter. Edited June 25, 2008 by Major Focker
grss1982 Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Going on the talk about the cockpit in Battroid mode, I will point out the the lower fuselage piece in addition to the ECA does a decent job of protecting the cockpit as seen in ep.7 when a yellow Vajra gives him a full power shot right in the back of his battroid and save for vaporizing what was left of his already damaged wings the back piece was still intact and covering the cockpit which we see a few seconds later looks fine and not cracked or anything (until Alto ejects and the whole fighter blows up but that is irrelevant). I've also always wondered if cockpit canopies in Macross still use traditional glass or some type of strengthened plastic or what not. I believe I've seen instances of a cockpit canopy being shattered although I can't think of one off the top of my head (I don't count Gilliam's fighter in ep.1 and 2 since he ejected and I think that blew off part of the canopy as a standard feature and that is why Alto was later flying it sans canopy piece). Something I thought about is whether or not the idea of transparent metals ever came to mind for use as such canopies and whether or not they have been developed in the Macross universe yet or at all. In today's technology transparent metals are still just an idea but one worth a lot of merit. It is hard enough making glass that can withstand the vacuum of space, but one as big as the cockpit canopies we see would have to be some really think glass. If it is some type of strengthened plastic then that might be different though. However if they have developed transparent metals then the canopy could be metal for all we know, just transparent. I have my doubts though that this has actually been done in the Macross universe though, but it makes sense. You mean this:
Master Dex Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 You mean this: Indeed the back section of the fuselage is still there, just no wings anymore, but they were already messed up anyway. Point is, cockpit was still fine. Then where did Gilliam got missiles when he jettisoned his FP in epi.1? He attack the Vajra in the city with at least 2 medium missiles. Plot device Morpheus, plot device.
Zinjo Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) Shattering only depends upon the structure of the material. I thought that even something as strong a titanium will shatter under sufficient stress. Perhaps the Valkyries do just use high-strength glass or high-impact plastic for the canopy, but the ECA would mean the canopy is a lot tougher. It's either that or a "super material", otherwise Hikaru would have been paste when he dove through that metal bridge and Isamu would have made a nice rug after his canopy-first drag along the canyon floor When considering traditional materials like glass and plastic, weight becomes a factor. High density glass is heavy and warps the perception of the pilot's view, similar to what would happen with a high impact plastic, though weight is not as much of an issue with plastic (although somewhat). A canopy of modern day thickness (1.25") made out of aluminum oxynitride would have at least 4 times the strength of glass and 1.5 times stronger than current polycarbonate plastics with far less flexibility issues, superior abrasion resistance with a melting temp nearly 10 times higher than that of polycarbonates. Couple that with a possibility that an ECA requires metallic surfaces to conduct it's current through.... To me that spells an ideal material for a trans atmospheric fighter craft. It isn't indestructable and would certainly be far more durable with the assistance of ECA, however just like a poly canopy, it can be shattered with sufficient force applied. Edited June 25, 2008 by Zinjo
d3v Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Indeed the back section of the fuselage is still there, just no wings anymore, but they were already messed up anyway. Point is, cockpit was still fine. The wings were still there, they had just temporarily gotten out of phase with this reality forming an invisible reality distortion that shielded Alto's back. You can see they clearly went back in phase when he transformed into gerwalk mode.
Morpheus Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Plot device Morpheus, plot device. Is that a new device for the VF-25? Where is this device located? Leg, arms? j/k
d3v Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Is that a new device for the VF-25? Where is this device located? Leg, arms? j/k Right next to the plot armor generator.
Kronnang Dunn Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) Noticed something in the Macross M3 game... A UNSpacy carrier has markings similar to some found in the VF-27... (Another connection to Galaxy NUNS...?). Also, there are some kind of berserk UNSpacy insectoid biological weapons that reminded me of the VAJRA a lot... Edited June 25, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn
d3v Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) With all the markings on the VF-27, I'm still trying to see if they've hidden one that spells out a certain three letter word last seen on a VF-1 in SDFM. Edited June 25, 2008 by d3v
Zinjo Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Noticed something in the Macross M3 game... A UNSpacy carrier has markings similar to some found in the VF-27... (Another connection to Galaxy NUNS...?). Also, there are some kind of berserk UNSpacy insectoid biological weapons that reminded me of the VAJRA a lot... Screenshot?
d3v Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 So I see that even then, those bugs were going after the lolis.
Final Vegeta Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 But VF do get hit in the back as well and if you look at the line art, the cockpit is left unprotected from the bottom and the rear fuselage is the only thing that covers the cockpit. Tanks have less armor on the sides, on the back and on the top. This is not because who designed them thought they absolutely weren't going to be hit in places other than the front. If you are worrying about not having enough protection on the back it means you are doing something wrong on the tactical level. Usually you don't charge enemy backwards. Also it should be noted that the torso is bigger and less mobile than other parts of a body, so it is the place more likely to be hit. The combination of not in front + not in the torso is a good defensive one. You say the rear fuselage is the only thing that covers the cockpit; well, in some VFs the heatshield is the only thing the covers the cockpit, and they don't look that much tougher than a fuselage. FV
Zinjo Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 One thing that has been established in this series is that for a cap ship to get a "Macross" designation, it must be capable of transformation. That being said, what part of the Galaxy will transform? Does it have a Macross New Carrier or does it have something else?
Aero of Steel Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Yeah. Sorry if I was lazy, but I was in a hurry. FV Do you got the VF 27 art designs?
Master Dex Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 The 27's transformation is nearly identical to the 25 from what I've seen. The wings are the main difference.
Final Vegeta Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Do you got the VF 27 art designs? Nope. Nobody still did it. Have some Queadluun-Rea fan art instead. FV
Zinjo Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Nope. Nobody still did it. Have some Queadluun-Rea fan art instead. FV NICE! Keep em coming...
d3v Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Nope. Nobody still did it. Have some Queadluun-Rea fan art instead. FV Nice, although, if I have to nitpick, the arm cannons seem to be the shorter ones from the Q-Rau.
Morpheus Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 One thing that has been established in this series is that for a cap ship to get a "Macross" designation, it must be capable of transformation. That being said, what part of the Galaxy will transform? Does it have a Macross New Carrier or does it have something else? Makes me wonder as well, Macross Galaxy is a totally different class with the rest of the New Macross Colony Ship, so whether it have a dedicated battle section or the entire ship is capable of transforming is unknown. Another thing that a ship is given Macross Designation: Capable to transform and have the BFG Macross Cannon.
Master Dex Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 (edited) Another thing that a ship is given Macross Designation: Capable to transform and have the BFG Macross Cannon. I'm just going to point out for grammer's sake that that was redundant, the G wasn't necessary as you said cannon only two words later. However one can have fun with redundancy if one knows how to have fun with redundancy. Edited June 26, 2008 by Master Dex
kalvasflam Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Slightly off tech topic, but what exactly is the rough composition of a Macross immigration fleet? I seem to recall that the fleet itself looks a little bit like a BSG fleet, with more warships, but also ships for entertainment, manufacturing, farming, etc. But don't remember if Mac 7 really put out the composition.
azrael Posted June 26, 2008 Author Posted June 26, 2008 Slightly off tech topic, but what exactly is the rough composition of a Macross immigration fleet? I seem to recall that the fleet itself looks a little bit like a BSG fleet, with more warships, but also ships for entertainment, manufacturing, farming, etc. But don't remember if Mac 7 really put out the composition. It seems to vary from fleet to fleet. M7 used separate ships for certain functions (entertainment, agriculture, military, etc) plus warships. M5 kinda followed the same scheme. We never got a good look at MG but it looked the same as MF. MF comprised of 1 City ship with interlinking Island modules serving all the functions of manufacturing, agriculture, etc. Plus they're all surrounded by military vessels. But they all seem to have a ship or module dedicated to manufacturing, one for amusement, one for agriculture, etc.
Zinjo Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Slightly off tech topic, but what exactly is the rough composition of a Macross immigration fleet? I seem to recall that the fleet itself looks a little bit like a BSG fleet, with more warships, but also ships for entertainment, manufacturing, farming, etc. But don't remember if Mac 7 really put out the composition. Well it depends on the fleet. Mac 7 fleet had separate task specific ships, whereas the Frontier appears to house those industries aboard the various island ships. Both have defensive fleets accompanying them.
kalvasflam Posted June 26, 2008 Posted June 26, 2008 Well it depends on the fleet. Mac 7 fleet had separate task specific ships, whereas the Frontier appears to house those industries aboard the various island ships. Both have defensive fleets accompanying them. Well, that's true, it'll be interesting to see Frontier fleet composition. I don't actually recall seeing non-escorts around frontier, but that doesn't mean much so far.
Alastar Posted June 27, 2008 Posted June 27, 2008 Well, that's true, it'll be interesting to see Frontier fleet composition. I don't actually recall seeing non-escorts around frontier, but that doesn't mean much so far. Well the Hollywood, Rivira class and other Colonial entertainment ships have yet to be seen. Or they might have been phased out. Only future episodes will tell. but since it looks like they have the external living modules that stretch light years behind the fleet. who knows what else they have in the Macross F fleet.
Mr March Posted June 27, 2008 Posted June 27, 2008 I think it's doubtful that the old specialized ships of the 37th fleet are part of the Macross Frontier fleet. None of those ships have appeared yet in the Macross Frontier fleet and there has been ample opportunity to feature them. Sheryl's concerts, Alto's training, Ranka's rising stardom, the Vajra analysis, and so forth. All these activities that could have taken place aboard a Hollywood, a West Point Class or Riviera or Einstein (respectively) have instead happened aboard either Island 1/2/3, which seems to suggest Zincredible's theory is likely accurate.
d3v Posted June 27, 2008 Posted June 27, 2008 Well the Hollywood, Rivira class and other Colonial entertainment ships have yet to be seen. Or they might have been phased out. Only future episodes will tell. but since it looks like they have the external living modules that stretch light years behind the fleet. who knows what else they have in the Macross F fleet. Well as you pointed out to me some time ago, the Frontier is bigger than City 7, so it's highly probably that alot of the functions of the other ships are now done in Island 1 and it's connecting "islands."
Morpheus Posted June 27, 2008 Posted June 27, 2008 Well as you pointed out to me some time ago, the Frontier is bigger than City 7, so it's highly probably that alot of the functions of the other ships are now done in Island 1 and it's connecting "islands." Frontier fleet is like Island 1 connected with several Island to form one gigantic "archipelago" colony . I also wondered about which island is used for heavy factory (manufacturing ships and VF). And I also noticed that the day/night cycle is still controlled by Island 1 dome, so I wonder if this is also for the rest of the island or they have a dedicated day/night cycle system. Another question: This is about colony ships, in UC Gundam the colony is using mirror reflection to "power" the colony life, giving day/night cycle, the sunlight is also crucial for the solar energy needed for life cycle. In Macross universe, we see that day/night cycle is controlled by the colony dome holographic projector including producing a holographic sun, the question is whether the system also capable of generating solar power as well? Now I need to excuse myself, need to dig up several grave for the catgirls that I just slaughtered
Chief Guld Goa Bowman Posted June 27, 2008 Posted June 27, 2008 In episode 9 flashback of Michaels sister shooting her ex, the VF-171 use the same sniper or a similar one as the VF-25. I'm wondering were it is stored, since its based on the vf-17 design maybe the sniper is stored in the leg/engine unit. Maybe the sniper folds like the nightmares gun pod or it can seperate and reattachment.
d3v Posted June 27, 2008 Posted June 27, 2008 In episode 9 flashback of Michaels sister shooting her ex, the VF-171 use the same sniper or a similar one as the VF-25. I'm wondering were it is stored, since its based on the vf-17 design maybe the sniper is stored in the leg/engine unit. Maybe the sniper folds like the nightmares gun pod or it can seperate and reattachment. Probably externally (the 171s are usually seen carrying more external weaponry than the 17s anyway). The only way they can fit it into the leg is if they've somehow managed to master storing stuff in sub-space.
Selic Posted June 27, 2008 Posted June 27, 2008 Probably externally (the 171s are usually seen carrying more external weaponry than the 17s anyway). The only way they can fit it into the leg is if they've somehow managed to master storing stuff in sub-space. Perhaps it can break into two pieces. The 17 did have space in both legs and usually carried more ammo or the beam adapter in the other one.
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