Dobber Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Towards the end of the opening theme song, you see 2 silhoweted (sorry for my spelling) fighters fly past each other. 1 appears to be a VF-25 what is the other? Is it the VF-27? I've only seen up to ep. 6, still waiting for Shinsen Subs to sub the last 3 episodes they seem to be falling behind. Sorry if this has been discussed already but these threads are getting pretty massive and I may have missed it, so I thought I'd ask. Chris
papabear Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Towards the end of the opening theme song, you see 2 silhoweted (sorry for my spelling) fighters fly past each other. 1 appears to be a VF-25 what is the other? Is it the VF-27? I've only seen up to ep. 6, still waiting for Shinsen Subs to sub the last 3 episodes they seem to be falling behind. Sorry if this has been discussed already but these threads are getting pretty massive and I may have missed it, so I thought I'd ask. Chris A quick answer: yes.
Firefighter Destroid Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 Anyone wanna take a guess about the Firepower of the new Macross Quarter class? I'm not sure that thing's main rifle really destroys things. Sort of like space folds them mutilatedly to another dimension where they can never, ever come back from.
Firefighter Destroid Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 wolfx, I can't believe that you forgot Noboru Ishiguro, the chief director of the original Macross! I like the way Noboru Ishiguro directs. He puts a lot of goofy antics in the background scene. Like the Nue logo on the building in South Atalia that was smashed into. Where else can you see a fixed painting plead for its existence in a short moment? Or Shoji Kawamori being ignored while interviewing Minmay. It's sad this kind of comedy is absent nowadays.
Mellow Yellow Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Found this VF-25 transformation on 2chan. Pretty sure it's fan art. I still can't figure out if the VF-25 head pops up for battroid mode or if it's stationary and the chest and back parts just simply fold down to reveal it, hehe. Edited June 5, 2008 by Mellow Yellow
Kronnang Dunn Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Wow next you'll be claiming he animated the whole SDFM series by himself and found the cure for cancer at the same time... He's a good story teller and a great variable fighter designer with the added bonus that he can direct VF sequences better than anyone else...so far... He is hardly a god and some need to keep that in mind... Mmmh... I must admit I admire him a lot, but never EVER used the word "God". Never said he did the original Chō Jikū Yōsai Makurosu all by himself. So don't put words in my mouth. I like to create mechas myself and some of the worst things you can do to a designer is to question his design ideas and/or not give him the credit he deserves for what he created. I hardly believe there would be any Macross (Not the one we know at least) if it weren't for him, specially since he practically designed each and every variable fighter in the Official Macross Continuity. Again, the VF-25 is his and only HIS creation... Nobody else's. You all got to take that into account when implying things that descredit him as such... If he says the VF-25 is based in the VF-1 and the VF-19, I believe the man's word waaay above any type of fanboyish remarks and/or useless intrigue... *cheers on Zinknowshisstuff* Some seem to be speaking a little too generally here, so I'm not sure where the criticism is being directed. But I doubt most of us are questioning the designer himself when looking at the valkyrie, only explaining how we see it from our own perspective. Even if Shoji Kawamori said to me the VF-25 is more an homage to an F-14 than an Su-27, I'd demand he convince me... Read what I just said... Towards the end of the opening theme song, you see 2 silhoweted (sorry for my spelling) fighters fly past each other. 1 appears to be a VF-25 what is the other? Is it the VF-27? I've only seen up to ep. 6, still waiting for Shinsen Subs to sub the last 3 episodes they seem to be falling behind. Sorry if this has been discussed already but these threads are getting pretty massive and I may have missed it, so I thought I'd ask. Chris I guess that should go in the newbies Questions thread... Edited June 5, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn
Mr March Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) I know exactly what you're inferring and so does Zinjo. You're also painting everyone with the same brush, so I had no choice but to properly explain the reasons for my opinion. If you don't like the opinions you're reading, don't read them, but you've got no reason start namecalling, claim we don't know anything or imply we're trying to sabotage Kawamori's credibility just because you take everything Kawamori says as infallible. Edited June 5, 2008 by Mr March
Kronnang Dunn Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) I know exactly what you're inferring and so does Zinjo. If you don't like the opinions you're reading, don't read them, but you've got no reason start namecalling, claim we don't know anything or imply we're trying to sabotage Kawamori's credibility just because you take everything Kawamori says as infallible. Again putting words in my mouth. Never said that everything Kawamori says is infallible. I just can't figure out why would he give innacurate information about a design he created himself? As a mecha designer I find no logic in that... If he says the VF-25 is based in the VF-1 and the VF-19, I just trust him... plain and simple. Edited June 5, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn
Zinjo Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Mmmh... I must admit I admire him a lot, but never EVER used the word "God". Never said he did the original Chō Jikū Yōsai Makurosu all by himself. So don't put words in my mouth. I like to create mechas myself and some of the worst things you can do to a designer is to question his design ideas and/or not give him the credit he deserves for what he created. I hardly believe there would be any Macross (Not the one we know at least) if it weren't for him, specially since he practically designed each and every variable fighter in the Official Macross Continuity. Again, the VF-25 is his and only HIS creation... Nobody else's. You all got to take that into account when implying things that descredit him as such... I don't recall using quotes?? Keep in mind that SDFM required a large number of production staff and SK was NOT the general director or Supervising Director (like he has been recently). He didn't have the final say in how the show turned out, he was "Junior man" in the group, who created the universe (which was initially going to be a parody of giant robot shows), directed the variable fighter sequences and wrote the story outlines for the script writers. I take nothing away from his creativity, however he wasn't the top dog on SDFM, he even had to "share" directing credit for DYRL. His directorial debut (top creative dog) was on Mac Plus and that production wasn't even meant to be a Macross story when he wrote it. He had divorced himself from the franchise after DYRL to concentrate on other projects he had in mind. It wasn't until the only way he could get funding for his topgun fighter jock story was to turn it into a Macross story, and then BigWest would fund it. If he says the VF-25 is based in the VF-1 and the VF-19, I believe the man's word waaay above any type of fanboyish remarks and/or useless intrigue... Why does this sound like a conversation with Keith over Mac 7? The only difference is that Keith can be reasonable... Edited June 5, 2008 by Zinjo
Final Vegeta Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 If he says the VF-25 is based in the VF-1 and the VF-19, I believe the man's word waaay above any type of fanboyish remarks and/or useless intrigue... To be exact, Compendium words it as: He thinks the VF-25 resembles a slimmer VF-1 Valkyrie in Fighter mode, but transforms like a VF-19 Excalibur. Keyword here is resembles. Featuring the same swing wings design, I think all can agree on this. The part about VF-19's transformation is a bit tricky. I agree with Kawamori. This is taken from Macross Design Works (it wasn't me the one who scanned it, btw). In the earlier sketches of YF-19, Fighter's nose was folded down like it is in the VF-25. We add the upper chest transformation from the final YF-19/VF-19 design and we get the VF-25. Even codpiece flipping over to cover the crotch is similar (though in VF-25's case legs are attached to the codpiece). So yeah, the VF-25, as a design, is the evolution of the VF-19. (the earlier sketches also show how the YF-19 came from the VF-11) FV
Kronnang Dunn Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Keep in mind that SDFM required a large number of production staff and SK was NOT the general director or Supervising Director (like he has been recently). He didn't have the final say in how the show turned out, he was "Junior man" in the group, who created the universe (which was initially going to be a parody of giant robot shows), directed the variable fighter sequences and wrote the story outlines for the script writers. Notice how you never mention that he created the variable fighter designs for SDFM... (just an observation, hehe). I thought the thing in discussion here (the "MF mecha thread") was only the VF-25 design? Not the "General Director" or "Supervising Director" function in a Macross anime? What do those have to do with the design of the VFs I wonder? To be exact, Compendium words it as: He thinks the VF-25 resembles a slimmer VF-1 Valkyrie in Fighter mode, but transforms like a VF-19 Excalibur. Keyword here is resembles. Featuring the same swing wings design, I think all can agree on this. The part about VF-19's transformation is a bit tricky. I agree with Kawamori. This is taken from Macross Design Works (it wasn't me the one who scanned it, btw). In the earlier sketches of YF-19, Fighter's nose was folded down like it is in the VF-25. We add the upper chest transformation from the final YF-19/VF-19 design and we get the VF-25. Even codpiece flipping over to cover the crotch is similar (though in VF-25's case legs are attached to the codpiece). So yeah, the VF-25, as a design, is the evolution of the VF-19. (the earlier sketches also show how the YF-19 came from the VF-11) FV Thanks dude. Couldn't have said it better myself... Edited June 5, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn
Mr March Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 Kronnang If you're going to debate credibly with anyone here, I'd lose the "not my words" attempts. Your actions are speaking volumes as are the insults you're throwing. This is obviously a dead end discussion so I'm moving on. Zinjo LOL Let's not even go there Final Vegeta A good catch and I agree. The VF-25 does resemble a VF-1 in fighter mode; it just happens that in my opinion, it resembles other fighters (real and Macross) a helluva lot more
Kronnang Dunn Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Kronnang If you're going to debate credibly with anyone here, I'd lose the "not my words" attempts. Your actions are speaking volumes as are the insults you're throwing. This is obviously a dead end discussion so I'm moving on. Actions? Insults? Again, not my words... Final Vegeta A good catch and I agree. The VF-25 does resemble a VF-1 in fighter mode; it just happens that in my opinion, it resembles other fighters (real and Macross) a helluva lot more And still no mention of the VF-19... Edited June 5, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn
Zinjo Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Notice how you never mention that he created the variable fighter designs for SDFM... (just an observation, hehe). I thought the thing in discussion here (the "mecha thread") was only the VF-25 design? Not the "General Director" or "Supervising Director" function in a Macross anime? What do those have to do with the design of the VFs I wonder? Felt no need to repeat myself as others do.... You have elevated SK to a position of some sort of all mighty creator. A bit much for a talented designer/storyteller and now director. His designs are legendary, good and bad, however he isn't godlike. Ask any of those who don't like Zero or Mac 7. I thought we had a minimum age for these forums? Edited June 5, 2008 by Zinjo
Kronnang Dunn Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) To be exact, Compendium words it as: He thinks the VF-25 resembles a slimmer VF-1 Valkyrie in Fighter mode, but transforms like a VF-19 Excalibur. Keyword here is resembles. Featuring the same swing wings design, I think all can agree on this. The part about VF-19's transformation is a bit tricky. I agree with Kawamori. This is taken from Macross Design Works (it wasn't me the one who scanned it, btw). In the earlier sketches of YF-19, Fighter's nose was folded down like it is in the VF-25. We add the upper chest transformation from the final YF-19/VF-19 design and we get the VF-25. Even codpiece flipping over to cover the crotch is similar (though in VF-25's case legs are attached to the codpiece). So yeah, the VF-25, as a design, is the evolution of the VF-19. (the earlier sketches also show how the YF-19 came from the VF-11) FV Btw... another thing I find very similar between the VF-19/VF-25 is the shield/pin-point barrier design... Edited June 5, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn
Zinjo Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Btw... another thing I find very similar between the VF-19/VF-25 is the shield/pin-point barrier design... To take a quote from the Duke Togo book of law... What pinpoint barrier? We only se a shield and there is nothing to indicate the VF-25 has a PBB.... Edited June 5, 2008 by Zinjo
Kronnang Dunn Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) To take a quote from the Duke Togo book of law... What pinpoint barrier? We only se a shield and there is nothing to indicate the VF-25 has a PBB.... Like Michael would say... "Oooooooooh...*!", hehe... Let me correct that... I find the shield transformation design and placement very similar in both the VF-19 and the VF-25... (Happy now?) Btw... The VF-25's Knife goes in the shield, and the knife seems to have some type of energy shield... So is logical to assume the Knife itself is the pin-point barrier (PPB) generator. But this is just my own little personal opinion, hehehe... Edited June 5, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn
Final Vegeta Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 What pinpoint barrier? We only se a shield and there is nothing to indicate the VF-25 has a PBB.... I agree. Up to now all points to the conclusion that the VF-25 has no PPB, including the fact that they would have better been using it already. Maybe it will come as an upgrade later. Maybe Kawamori simply thought "Screw barriers, in Super Robot Wars 100% evasion is better!". Also no indications the knife works on the same principles of PPB, this is fan speculation up to now. FV
Zinjo Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 I agree. Up to now all points to the conclusion that the VF-25 has no PPB, including the fact that they would have better been using it already. Maybe it will come as an upgrade later. Maybe Kawamori simply thought "Screw barriers, in Super Robot Wars 100% evasion is better!". Also no indications the knife works on the same principles of PPB, this is fan speculation up to now. FV Yeah, more info on that knife is definitely on the top 10 things to find out about...
Mr March Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 Yeah, more info on that knife is definitely on the top 10 things to find out about... Just ignore the wall of ignorance defense Oh yeah, I too am dying to find out what that knife is. I am fearful though that it may be something simple that we've seen a hundred times before in sci-fi, like a vibro-blade or something. It would be nice if it were something else. I had a theory a while back that the knife was actually a variation on energy converting armor, but used the same principle for offense turning the knife into a super strong blade that could cut through almost anything. I hope it's something like that, because that's a really clever idea I think (if I do say so myself)
Master Dex Posted June 5, 2008 Posted June 5, 2008 Just ignore the wall of ignorance defense Oh yeah, I too am dying to find out what that knife is. I am fearful though that it may be something simple that we've seen a hundred times before in sci-fi, like a vibro-blade or something. It would be nice if it were something else. I had a theory a while back that the knife was actually a variation on energy converting armor, but used the same principle for offense turning the knife into a super strong blade that could cut through almost anything. I hope it's something like that, because that's a really clever idea I think (if I do say so myself) Hmm, I agree Mr March I like that idea, and it makes a lot of sense really. If so perhaps the reason we see a glow is because it's the same amount of power going into the knife that goes into the armor. The blade then could be even stronger than the armor of a valkyrie.
Morpheus Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 It glows because of anima spiritia ---Whacks d3v with mecha size guitar--- So based upon epi.10 and the remaining fact about VF-27, it is clear that only cyborg could piloted the VF-27, normal pilot even with an X-Gear would be "Gulded"
d3v Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 ---Whacks d3v with mecha size guitar--- Now if only that were animated back then...
Major Focker Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 please god, nooooo! i'm having enough problems as it is getting through M7. what with mecha carrying speaker boxes and disco lights from the shoulders...
aerocombatpilot Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 please god, nooooo! i'm having enough problems as it is getting through M7. what with mecha carrying speaker boxes and disco lights from the shoulders... Your not the ONLY one!
Master Dex Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 We all have trouble with M7 on the inside. After all we have speakers on Valkyries but sound can't exist in the vacuum of space, it's outrageous, I have to do something about it! But... there is nothing I can do, so I guess I just have to develop some suspended disbelief.
Major Focker Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 unless you have super dimensional purple crystals
d3v Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 We all have trouble with M7 on the inside. After all we have speakers on Valkyries but sound can't exist in the vacuum of space, it's outrageous, I have to do something about it! But... there is nothing I can do, so I guess I just have to develop some suspended disbelief. But it's not sound, it's "song energy" which for all intents and purposes is anima spiritia.
Final Vegeta Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I am fearful though that it may be something simple that we've seen a hundred times before in sci-fi, like a vibro-blade or something. It would be nice if it were something else. I had a theory a while back that the knife was actually a variation on energy converting armor, but used the same principle for offense turning the knife into a super strong blade that could cut through almost anything. That wouldn't explain the glow though. My pick is a heat blade, like in the original Gundam. FV
Kelsain Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 That wouldn't explain the glow though. My pick is a heat blade, like in the original Gundam. FV Could be superheated plasma confined within a magnetic field around the blade. That might explain the bright blue color and the "Shifty" appearance of the glow.
d3v Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) Taken from the news thread. While it's a bit fuzzy and not clear enough to actually nitpick over, there are a few noticeable details. -First, that's one long gun! However, that also makes me wonder how it'll affect the plane in an atmospheric environment. -Second, it seems that like the YV-21/VF-22, the intakes form part of the chest in battroid and not the legs. -Still no idea where the shield goes, although it may just be in the same place as in the VF-25, then again maybe not. -SV-52 style three toed feet, although, unlike that plane from Zero, the legs and feet in the VF-27 don't rotate 180 between battroid/gerwalk mode. -There's a bit of text down there with the words VF-22, anyone care to translate? Edited June 6, 2008 by d3v
Sulendil Ang Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Well, it said something about VF-27's shields on the fuselage and the limbs, but I'm not too sure about about the rest...
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