Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread II *Read 1st Post*

[Morpheus]

About the Macross Quarter Pounder:

Ok, its a medium scale ship at 400 m, but its heavily armed with beam cannons, destroids, missiles and a Macross Cannon (Heavy Quantum Reaction Cannon), and probably equipped with barrier system.

I wonder what kind of reactor it uses to power all of those heavy hitting guns. The Macross Cannon alone took less than 1 minute to became fully charged. Talking about the cannon itself, I think its a different Macross Cannon version compare with SDF-1 and New Macross.

BTW, Luca noticed a Fold reactor on the Vajra carrier, is this different with the power plant on UNS capships?

[Duke Togo]

BTW, Luca noticed a Fold reactor on the Vajra carrier, is this different with the power plant on UNS capships?

Yes. The mysterious purple stone!

[Kronnang Dunn]

Found this in 4Chan... Junya Ishikagi VAJRA designs... Now... take a look at the designs that haven't appeared in the show yet... will give u a heart attack... (specially the one that looks like certain enemy mecha from the old Macross series... a Protoculture connection?).

[Graham]

Renato started a thread about this already, where he posted full scans of the pages from 'Animation Note' magazine.

Rentato has already stated that these are only early draft designs and it is noted in the text that the Regult type mecha is not likely to be used in Frontier.

Graham

[Kronnang Dunn]

Renato started a thread about this already, where he posted full scans of the pages from 'Animation Note' magazine.

Rentato has already stated that these are only early draft designs and it is noted in the text that the Regult type mecha is not likely to be used in Frontier.

Graham

I hope it is eventually used... The design looks great and actually some more variety to the "enemy" forces would be more appealing. So far there have been only 3 types of Vajra units shown in Macross Frontier... The small yellow units, the large red ones and the carrier... (the Zentradi from the old Macross series had several types of units and most of them were shown since the first episodes...).

I just noticed something... Isn't Grace's necklace adorned with a pink rock (or Super Dimensional Resonance Crystal) at the tip? Just like Sheryl's earrings... Mr. Bilrer's ring... Luca's VF fold transmission device... the fold reactor inside the Vajra carrier... etc.,etc. Perhaps that's how Grace located Sheryl during episode 3.

Maybe Grace's necklace is a fold transmission device of some sort!!!! (I'm starting to believe that she could be associated with Mr. Bilrer somehow...).

I also am begining to think that perhaps Ranka is a cyborg and the thing protruding from her belly is another one of those pink gems...

Maybe the Super Dimensional Resonance Crystals resonate/activate with certain frequencies of music/sound (like the voice of Sheryl and Ranka, or even Brera's harmonica...).

Edited May 19, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Sorata]

I went ahead and screen capped that shot for you actually, it seems obvious here there is no wrap around.

It could be built into the helemt to save money or be similar to the in helmet HUD of the F-35 and not show a full see through view but just markers in any directions you look (like missile or enemy fighter markers). Or it may not just have one at all.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

WHERE EXACTLY..... *coff* *coff* does it say that the VF-27 is affiliated with NUNS?

WHERE EXACTLY.... *coff* *coff* did I say the PMC I was referring to was affiliated with NUNS/SMS? You are aware that there can be more than one PMC and that not all of them have to be affiliated with each other correct?

[Graham]

Hmm.......gotta study Luca's Ghosts in more detail and see if they are more than just cosmetically different to the NUNS Ghosts we saw in the Deculture edition.

Here's a couple of screen captures of Luca's Ghosts.

Don't have time to grab some pics of the NUNS Ghosts right now.

Graham

[Renato]

http://www.macrossf.com/mechanic/mecha10.html

Something I pointed out after that training episode was aired -- they are not Queadluun Raus, but Queadluun LEAs. I was ignored back then, though, so now I have a bit more evidence than just a Luca soundbyte.

(BTW the Q-Raus are usually written クァドラン・ロー, while the Lea types are クァドラン・レア so you can note the difference.)

PS -- I'm writing Lea instead of Rea just because a few of you said it was written with a "Lambda" in some magazine or other. It could very well just be romanized as Rea or something else entirely, we'll have to see the packaging on any kits that may come out I guess. But in any case this is the official name.

Edited May 19, 2008 by Renato

[Kronnang Dunn]

http://www.macrossf.com/mechanic/mecha10.html

Something I pointed out after that training episode was aired -- they are not Queadluun Raus, but Queadluun LEAs. I was ignored back then, though, so now I have a bit more evidence than just a Luca soundbyte.

(BTW the Q-Raus are usually written クァドラン・ロー, while the Lea types are クァドラン・レア so you can note the difference.)

Yes... Is official. Is Quaedluun-Rea...

Edited May 19, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[d3v]

Hmm.......gotta study Luca's Ghosts in more detail and see if they are more than just cosmetically different to the NUNS Ghosts we saw in the Deculture edition.

Here's a couple of screen captures of Luca's Ghosts.

Don't have time to grab some pics of the NUNS Ghosts right now.

Graham

The Ghosts SMS is using seem to have a bit more equipment attached to them as compared to the NUNS Ghosts.

[Fade Rathnik]

So I originally posted this in the ep 7 talk back but i think it might be better suited here.

After looking at the 27's over all shape and structure its quite obvious to me that the 25 and 27 are very close cousins if not siblings. They both have the same over all transformation, save for the wings which are folding rather than VG as they are on the 25. And there is something different going on with the shoulders behind the neck as I am not sure if that is the leading or trailing edge of the fuselage. I agree that each fighter is based of a different concept but from the same original design, likely result of being produced by two different Firms. But two firms using more or less the same structure thats kind of odd in the Macross world, then only to find out that the 25 is based of another fighter the 24 so now there are 3 fighters with the over all same structure. I wonder if we'll ever see the 24, I doubt it though.

This all reflects some interesting differences in the design and manufacture worlds of Macross. Unlike the real world, design firms are responsible only for designing their airframes, possibly building the prototypes but i doubt it. I'd say most if not all manufacture is handled by either the automated factory that they nicked back in 2011 or the automated factories humans have sense built. As was demonstrated in m7. So design firms are payed some form of license fee for each copy produced. This changes the whole logic of how a firm would operate, and if you think about it offers a perfect explanation for the 17 vrs 171.

GG(General Galaxy) desgned the 17 as a special forces fighter from the outset, there for likely made the license price higher to pay for the R&D cost in developing the airframe. Then went on to work on the 21. Fast forward one and a half decades, the 11 is likely a reservist and planetary garrison fighter and the 19 is serving as the primary fighter but showing its age. Of course with the 22 as special forces, but also showing its age.

Honestly as good as the 19 is she probably wasn't the best space fighter or rather she was always too much at home in an atmosphere to spend to much time in space. So someone, likely Shinshi is developing the 24 as a replacment for the 19. The UN changes and becoms the NUN, this likely killing the project. So some nut a GG goes, 'well the research on the 17 is already paid, why not just make the design more suitable to mass production and use and offer it as a primarily space fighter' hence the 171 is born as a cheap stopgap, new governments love those.

Which leaves the 19s getting reasigned to the core systems where its excellent atmospheric maneuverability would pay off. The 171 on carriers assigned to colony fleets. The 24 program to replace the 19 as the standard fighter being reworked as the 25 with the new government, likely creating the flexability that the 25 is now renowned for. And the 22 apparently being quietly replaced by the 27.

[Alastar]

But its been 50 years and we dont know what happend to the VF-19 design or its history since M7. I read somewhere they are taking the focuses of the designs off stealth. So i would think that the VF-25 is a all over new design down to the transformation system along with its armor weapon package. Setting it apart from the older VF's of the past.

[wolfx]

Are the protrusions on the VF-25 wingroots confirmed to be beam weapons? Some members noticed they were fired in ep 7 when Alto fired them to breach the hull, but i'm not that convinced. Animation error?

The "beams" were indistinguishable from the gunpod fire.

[Graham]

Are the protrusions on the VF-25 wingroots confirmed to be beam weapons? Some members noticed they were fired in ep 7 when Alto fired them to breach the hull, but i'm not that convinced. Animation error?

The "beams" were indistinguishable from the gunpod fire.

The beam guns are on the hips in battroid and in the wing roots in fighter mode. They ar not the mid-wing protrusions.

Yes, you can distiguish between them and the gunpod fire, if you watch in slow motion.

Graham

[wolfx]

forgive me if i do not know what are "wing roots" but i'm guessing its the thingy where the SV-51 had its gattling guns?

[Beltane70]

The "wing root" is the area of an aircraft where the wings meet the body of the aircraft.

[Graham]

forgive me if i do not know what are "wing roots" but i'm guessing its the thingy where the SV-51 had its gattling guns?

Wing root guns marked in red on the attached picture.

In Battroid mode, they are on the hips.

Graham

[wolfx]

Wing root guns marked in red on the attached picture.

In Battroid mode, they are on the hips.

Graham

Ok....that's where i'm thinking.

So next question is why are ppl sure those are beam cannons when traditionally they are supposed to house vulcans?

[azrael]

So next question is why are ppl sure those are beam cannons when traditionally they are supposed to house vulcans?

I am not sure those shots were from the beam cannons. The spread of rounds from Alto's gunpod corresponds to him being hit and readjusting his flight path. His wing was hit and that knocked him slightly off. Alto was still firing as his wing was hit so I'm not sure any shots came from the beam cannons.

[info600]

I am not sure those shots were from the beam cannons. The spread of rounds from Alto's gunpod corresponds to him being hit and readjusting his flight path. His wing was hit and that knocked him slightly off. Alto was still firing as his wing was hit so I'm not sure any shots came from the beam cannons.

i have to agree here, the shots that i saw were the color of the gunpod fire.

besides, we haven't seen the beam cannons being fired (yet)

Edited May 20, 2008 by info600

[Graham]

I am not sure those shots were from the beam cannons. The spread of rounds from Alto's gunpod corresponds to him being hit and readjusting his flight path. His wing was hit and that knocked him slightly off. Alto was still firing as his wing was hit so I'm not sure any shots came from the beam cannons.

I'm going by these screen shots, which seem to show two separate streams of fire, from the left and right side of the plane and also muzzle flash from what looks like the wing root area.

Graham

[wolfx]

Nice catch. But still don't look like beams to me.

[Graham]

Yeah, I agree, they don't really look like beams, but they do seem to be firing from the wing rots IMO.

Graham

[azrael]

Yeah, I agree, they don't really look like beams, but they do seem to be firing from the wing rots IMO.

It's probably muzzle flash from the gunpod. The spread on the gunpod rounds really does correspond to how his VF was hit.

[Zinjo]

The only beam cannons I know of are on the Armor Pack. The rest seem like conventional munitions to me.

[Zinjo]

As for Fade Rathnik's disertation. One point to keep in mind, that the VF-19 came in 4 variants. The VF-19A, VF-19F, VF-19S and the VF-19P (excluding the Kai as it isn't a production variant). The F & S were both space optimized, hence the fixed, shorter wings.

As for the VF-171, it is entirely possible that changes in political climate could have necessitated a need for a cheap, quickly produced fighter to replace an either aging or possibly reduced number of 19s in service. The VF-25 definitely isn't using a bleeding edge spaceframe design as in previous models, but more a utilitarian design augmented with bolt on, mission specific combat packs. It's advances are more internal and mechanical, rather than aesthetic.

[Master Dex]

As for Fade Rathnik's disertation. One point to keep in mind, that the VF-19 came in 4 variants. The VF-19A, VF-19F, VF-19S and the VF-19P (excluding the Kai as it isn't a production variant). The F & S were both space optimized, hence the fixed, shorter wings.

As for the VF-171, it is entirely possible that changes in political climate could have necessitated a need for a cheap, quickly produced fighter to replace an either aging or possibly reduced number of 19s in service. The VF-25 definitely isn't using a bleeding edge spaceframe design as in previous models, but more a utilitarian design augmented with bolt on, mission specific combat packs. It's advances are more internal and mechanical, rather than aesthetic.

Well it seems that this topic about the VF-19 vs the VF-171 will never die, but it seems there is always someone who didn't see the other debates on it. I am personally done, myself believing the 19 to be in service elsewhere as aging hardware, and the 171 being the cheap stopgap. Whether 25 was meant to replace the 19 or it's competing with the 27 or that is all just speculation now. There, the paraphrased version of what most people seem to think, and my belief on it as well.

Edit: Yay, I am no longer Cannon Fodder... so now I must go swab the deck on a old carrier ship design... why do I have the feeling that's no better?

Edited May 20, 2008 by Master Dex

[ChronoReverse]

But why would the 17's space-frame be better for a stopgap than the 19?

The 17 had an unusual shape and was also passive-stealth designed. Furthermore, it was a special forces craft.

Meanwhile, the 19 was a more traditional design (albeit swept-forward, but that doesn't matter much in space) and didn't have that many fancy tricks up its sleeves (especially compared to the 21). I would've thought it'd be easier to strip the expensive components out of the 19 than the 17.

Edited May 20, 2008 by ChronoReverse

[Mark Nguyen]

Remember though, in Macross Plus Millard described that project Super Nova fighter to be flying deep-range tactical missions, surgical strikes, hostage rescue, etc. This implies smaller numbers of independent fighters in the first place. While this seems anomolous for a "main fighter", remember that the new F-22s for the USAF are considered the premier fighter in the USAF - despite being far fewer in number than the F-15s it is replacing, and the F-16s that it will complement. The logic is that the F-22 is simply so far superior to anything else out there, that you don't NEED hundreds of planes to maintain air superiority in the post Cold War political climate.

Therefore, my view is that the 19 is (or was) indeed the front-line fighter in the UN Spacy and arguably for NUNS as well, BUT ONLY FOR CERTAIN JOBS. It was only ever produced in limited numbers to do just what Super Nova wanted. If a UNS or NUNS fleet was ever pressed into full-scale war, even then you wouldn't see multiple squadrons fly out from the decks of your typical Guantanamo class carrier. You would continue to see the venerable VF-11 and then the VF-171 head out, while the smaller number of VF-19s and VF-22s would do all the FUN stuff like blow up an enemy base, cut off supply lines, assasinate the rogue Zentradi commander, etc.

In the US Navy (the closest analog to the Spacy's mobile fleets), in the broad strokes you had two major kinds of aircraft through to the 1990s: attack and defense. The attack craft would do out and do just that against ground targets, while the defense planes (the fighters) would defend those craft and the mother ship. Attack planes evolved into a strike role that could do both (A-7 Corsairs traded in for F/A-18 Hornets), while the defense planes adapted into attacking ground targets (F-4s carrying bombs, F-14D "Bombcat" variants, etc.). Ulimately, the Navy ended up with just one plane that can do any job (the F/A-18E and F Super Hornet) performing almost as well as the more mission specific predecessors but at a lower operating cost that justifies ditching the older planes instead of building more or better designs. The Navy is now operating just two varieties of Hornets for attack and defense on their carriers (C/D and E/F, with the former eventually slated to be replaced by the F-35C). Even the EA-6B Prowler EW planes are being replaced by an EW variant of the Super Hornet, the F-18G Growler.

I think this is why we ended up with the VF-171, to become NUNS' go-to fighter for any use. The VF-19s may still be around, but not in numbers large enough to be a major visible force, and some fleets (like Frontier) won't even bother to have them in their garrison.

Mark

[Mr March]

The only beam cannons I know of are on the Armor Pack. The rest seem like conventional munitions to me.

The Macross Compendium describes the VF-25 Messiah as having beam cannons.

Its offensive weapons include a gatling gun, beam cannons, laser guns in the head unit, and a close-combat knife in its shield

Since all other weapons on the VF-25 Messiah have been accounted for (the gatling gun is in the new style gun pod, the laser cannons are on the head unit) the beam guns would have to be those two weapons on the outside of the intakes/hips. It also makes sense the VF-25 would have beam cannons if it is supposed to be comparable to the VF-19/VF-22 in terms of combat performance (both of which have beam weapons). And lastly, the VF-25 beam guns are in almost the exact same place as they are on the VF-19 (wing root tips) and the VF-22 (mounted farther rearward but firing over the same angle).

[Morpheus]

(Raises hand) Question, is the Super pack equipped with a beam cannon as well or micro missile launchers? As I recall during the opening I saw two red beam coming from the Super pack.

[Master Dex]

I don't know if the Super pack has any additional beam cannons aside from the wing root beam cannons on the VF-25.

Although no VF-25 w/ super pack has been seen firing any micro missiles or such like the ones form the armored pack, I believe it has the chest and shoulder missile packs, but obviously not the leg ones as the armor is different. It is also possible there are less missiles in the super packs chest and shoulders compared to the armored pack. This is all excluding the missiles the VF-25 supposedly carries as standard (even if we can't decide where it's hiding it's missiles).

[grss1982]

I don't know if the Super pack has any additional beam cannons aside from the wing root beam cannons on the VF-25.

Although no VF-25 w/ super pack has been seen firing any micro missiles or such like the ones form the armored pack, I believe it has the chest and shoulder missile packs, but obviously not the leg ones as the armor is different. It is also possible there are less missiles in the super packs chest and shoulders compared to the armored pack. This is all excluding the missiles the VF-25 supposedly carries as standard (even if we can't decide where it's hiding it's missiles).

IIRC, Alto's VF-25 did fire some missles in episode 7 with his SUper Pack still attached. So I guess there are some missles in the Super Pack, yes?

EDIT: Took a screenshot of the VF-25, and it does seem like the Super Pack has missles: (Click Thumbnail bellow for bigger pic.)

BTW, this pic was taken at 14:48 of AiA-IZ's sub of Episode 7.

Edited May 21, 2008 by grss1982

[Master Dex]

IIRC, Alto's VF-25 did fire some missles in episode 7 with his armor pack still attached. So I guess there are some missles in the Super Pack, yes?

Either that or they are standard missiles from the VF-25 itself, but again, no one really knows where Messiah is hiding its missiles.