Macross Frontier Episode 6 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[raymond]

So is Alto a common Japanese name or is it a Spanish name that was given to him? Since Alto means high in Spanish, as in flying high.

Given his family name Saotome, I'd say its Japanese. Probably a reference to Ranma Saotome of the Ranma 1/2 manga and anime where the titular character would change back and forth from being a male and a female depending on the temperature of the water splashed on him/her.

[taksraven]

If you watched it again, you realize that both Luca and Michael are zooming on the same thing.

Can you blame them??

[Graham]

please SK show us some VF-171 Battroid and Gerwalk pr0n for crying out loud. .

The manga actually has much more VF-171 porn than the anime, especially chapters 1 & 5. Quite a lot of Battroid mode.

Graham

[eugimon]

OT, but...

hmm.

I already destroyed my copies of the broadcast/fansubs, but how about this quick one that actually got included into the actual dvd-version itself:

Iirc, there were a number of misdrawings and stuff in both GitS-SAC's 1st-Gig and 2nd-Gig during the broadcast-run that were eventually mostly cleaned-up/improved in the dvd-version. Guess the one I attached didn't get improved on.

As such, quite a number of us here already stated that Frontier's stuff ain't really that bad for a broadcast-version of an anime, so try not to get your collective panties in a bunch.

Thanks for posting that up... I fully expect the MF haters to jump all over that and talk about what a wonderfully drawn scene that was full of quality animation and detail. lol.

[darkrealmbahamut]

maybe the galaxy fleet use vf-19's and 22's as their fighters.

But remember what Mikhail said that military spend is on an extreme budget. Maybe they shifted to production of the VF-25 because they figured out how to be more cost affective.

[wolfx]

OT, but...

hmm.

I already destroyed my copies of the broadcast/fansubs, but how about this quick one that actually got included into the actual dvd-version itself:

Iirc, there were a number of misdrawings and stuff in both GitS-SAC's 1st-Gig and 2nd-Gig during the broadcast-run that were eventually mostly cleaned-up/improved in the dvd-version. Guess the one I attached didn't get improved on.

Trying abit hard aren't we?

VS

Need I say more?

As such, quite a number of us here already stated that Frontier's stuff ain't really that bad for a broadcast-version of an anime, so try not to get your collective panties in a bunch.

If it ain't bad, would i be whining now?

Forgive me for being frank, but i think its the effects of "fanboy blindness".

[Gubaba]

So is Alto a common Japanese name or is it a Spanish name that was given to him? Since Alto means high in Spanish, as in flying high.

Given his family name Saotome, I'd say its Japanese. Probably a reference to Ranma Saotome of the Ranma 1/2 manga and anime where the titular character would change back and forth from being a male and a female depending on the temperature of the water splashed on him/her.

You're not far off..."Saotome" means "Maiden" in Japanese, and, yes, Alto means "high" in Spanish...but I think when the creators christened him, they were probably thinking of it in the opera sense...a woman who sings with a low voice.

So no matter how you look at it, the Princess just can't catch a break...

[eugimon]

I looked back and wolfX is right, SAC had consistent and beautiful animation... except for these:

[wolfx]

You're not far off..."Saotome" means "Maiden" in Japanese, and, yes, Alto means "high" in Spanish...but I think when the creators christened him, they were probably thinking of it in the opera sense...a woman who sings with a low voice.

So no matter how you look at it, the Princess just can't catch a break...

Saotome? Really? Wasn't "otome" maiden in Japanese?

[Graham]

Without knowing more about the current political and economic situation in the Macross universe, it's really difficult to speculate why the Frontier fleet NUNS forces are using the VF-171 and not a version of the VF-19 or VF-22.

It may well be that the VF-19 and VF-22 are still in service on some other planets/bases/fleets.

I would imagine the VF-171 is cheaper to produce than either the VF-19 or VF-22. It's been stated that the VF-171 is also an easy Valk to fly.

Possibly individual colony fleets have some latitude in choosing what VFs to arm their fleet military with and the VF-171 offered acceptable performance, at a more reasonable cost than the competition.

It's been stated that the VF-171 entered service in 2058. I'm intensly curious to know what Valk they had prior to the VF-171. I can't see the aging VF-11 as still being in service, unless perhaps they had a Version of the VF-11MAXL. I also can't see the Frontier NUNS as having had the VF-19 and then downgrading to the VF-171.

Graham

[wolfx]

I looked back and wolfX is right, SAC had consistent and beautiful animation... except for these:

Ouch, sarcasm . But seriously apart from the 1st image, the rest look fine to me.

[treatment]

... shenanigans ...

roflmao!

dude, if there's anyone here "trying hard" and/or having "fanboy blindness", it will be just you.

And yes, you are just whining for the sake of whining.

[RichterX]

Wouldn't allowing military groups and colonies have VF-19s and VF-22s be a huge risk? The YF-19 and YF-21 were able to evade Earth's defense satellites and as well in VFX-2 assuming the events are canon Gilliam and Aegis were able to also sneak through Earth's defenses.

[wolfx]

About the VF-171 vs VF-19, is there a possiblity that NUNS and UNS are not one in the same and there may be split governments? Its not too far fetched to think that an interstellar race be governed by more than just one almighty government. Perhaps after the events of VF-X2, the "rebels" formed the NUNs while the UNS loses some support but is still around?

[Morpheus]

Without knowing more about the current political and economic situation in the Macross universe, it's really difficult to speculate why the Frontier fleet NUNS forces are using the VF-171 and not a version of the VF-19 or VF-22.

It may well be that the VF-19 and VF-22 are still in service on some other planets/bases/fleets.

I would imagine the VF-171 is cheaper to produce than either the VF-19 or VF-22. It's been stated that the VF-171 is also an easy Valk to fly.

Possibly individual colony fleets have some latitude in choosing what VFs to arm their fleet military with and the VF-171 offered acceptable performance, at a more reasonable cost than the competition.

It's been stated that the VF-171 entered service in 2058. I'm intensly curious to know what Valk they had prior to the VF-171. I can't see the aging VF-11 as still being in service, unless perhaps they had a Version of the VF-11MAXL. I also can't see the Frontier NUNS as having had the VF-19 and then downgrading to the VF-171.

Graham

NUNS are definitely on a budget there if they are forced to downgrade from VF-19 to VF-171. But at least they got several squadron of Ghost (cheaper than VF-19?). SMS seems to use the latest model (Macross type ship, Konig Monster, VF-25) so if the VF-19/22 are to make a cameo, they probably came from SMS hangar.

[wolfx]

....da dur....

No, you.

[treatment]

No, you.

The Shosa would like to thank you for your "fanboy blindness" support:

oh. just to keep this on-topic, here's your zoomed-in Ranka-pic again.

Edited May 14, 2008 by treatment

[Graham]

Guys, enough with the GiTS screen shots already!

Start a GiTS thread in the othe anime forum if you really want to continue with this, please.

Graham

[Gubaba]

Saotome? Really? Wasn't "otome" maiden in Japanese?

Yeah...Sa-Otome. It wasn't in my regular Japanese-to-English dictionary, but my big-ass Kanji dictionary had it. The "sa" here usually means "Fast," but in this case (according to said big-ass dictionary), it means "young and supple."

[treatment]

Guys, enough with the GiTS screen shots already!

Start a GiTS thread in the othe anime forum if you really want to continue with this, please.

Graham

sorry, dude.

just trying to keep stuff in perspective before another one whines in here again about Frontier's animation and/or designs compared against other anime.

[wolfx]

The Shosa would like to thank you for your "fanboy blindness" support:

Ranka says:

"I'm so pretty compared to Motoko. Thanks, fanbois."

sorry, dude.

just trying to keep stuff in perspective before another one whines in here again about Frontier's animation and/or designs compared against other anime.

Ranka says :

"O' RLY?"

Ranka thinks you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Noyhauser]

Without knowing more about the current political and economic situation in the Macross universe, it's really difficult to speculate why the Frontier fleet NUNS forces are using the VF-171 and not a version of the VF-19 or VF-22.

It may well be that the VF-19 and VF-22 are still in service on some other planets/bases/fleets.

I would imagine the VF-171 is cheaper to produce than either the VF-19 or VF-22. It's been stated that the VF-171 is also an easy Valk to fly.

Possibly individual colony fleets have some latitude in choosing what VFs to arm their fleet military with and the VF-171 offered acceptable performance, at a more reasonable cost than the competition.

It's been stated that the VF-171 entered service in 2058. I'm intensly curious to know what Valk they had prior to the VF-171. I can't see the aging VF-11 as still being in service, unless perhaps they had a Version of the VF-11MAXL. I also can't see the Frontier NUNS as having had the VF-19 and then downgrading to the VF-171.

Graham

Actually I can see them persisting with the VF-11s until recently. The fighter was good enough against the Zentradi remnants, which is the main opponent (N)UNS would expect to face. We see a wide array of fighters throughout the universe; Zolans use VF-5000s, the VA-14 was used by Macross 5's fleet and VF-X2 suggests the VF-1 Plus is a common fighter design throughout the UNS.

As an aside (and not to toot my own horn too much), its weird now to hear all of you talk about the economics of Macross fighters as if its sorta canon.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Noyhauser

[dreamweaver13]

You're not far off..."Saotome" means "Maiden" in Japanese, and, yes, Alto means "high" in Spanish...but I think when the creators christened him, they were probably thinking of it in the opera sense...a woman who sings with a low voice.

So no matter how you look at it, the Princess just can't catch a break...

i wouldn't be surprised if the creators considered all of that in coming up with the name alto. just like speed racer's mifune go, whose name is a wordplay on the jap for number 5 (the car's number) and the english word "go". So alto could refer to both the voice (symbolizing his old career path) and the spanish word for high (hence, his obsession with how high in the sky he can go).

[USCOLMRNE]

Actually I can see them persisting with the VF-11s until recently. The fighter was good enough against the Zentradi remnants, which is the main opponent (N)UNS would expect to face. We see a wide array of fighters throughout the universe; Zolans use VF-5000s, the VA-14 was used by Macross 5's fleet and VF-X2 suggests the VF-1 Plus is a common fighter design throughout the UNS.

As an aside (and not to toot my own horn too much), its weird now to hear all of you talk about the economics of Macross fighters as if its sorta canon.

VF-11 was awsome. I was hoping to see some VF-11s in combat. But yeah I cant wait to hear why the VF-171 was chosen rather than the VF-19. I am guessing a polititian screwed over Shinsei Industries and went with General Galaxy instead. like how Chenney screwed Northrop Grumman and went with Boeing.

I am not sure if anyone else has noticed it. But doesnt Macross Quarter head look like the VF-17S head???

Edited May 14, 2008 by USCOLMRNE

[Sorata]

About the VF-171 vs VF-19, is there a possiblity that NUNS and UNS are not one in the same and there may be split governments? Its not too far fetched to think that an interstellar race be governed by more than just one almighty government. Perhaps after the events of VF-X2, the "rebels" formed the NUNs while the UNS loses some support but is still around?

I have VF-X2 and have played through it numerous times with all endings. It was my understanding that the UN Spacy didnt turn evil, instead it was just your high ranking Commanding Officer who had his own motives to disrupt UN Spacy. You were dispatched to combat a terrorist group at the start of the game that was targeting UN Spacy after numerous battles and the suppossed death of your Flight Leader you learn he has joined what you believed were the bad guys (note from what it appears in the game the terrorist you had been fighting up till the "death of your flight leader were true terrorist but your Flight lead joins another group of "bad guys" (another terrorist group that has only target the Corrupted UN Spacy individuals not everyone like the original terrorist group which is made up of the critical path corporation who invented the missile jamming system that is later installed in Macross 13, that are in league with the corrupt UN Spacy men) who is lead by a Meltrandi that are labeled terrorist but arent. The correct ending to the game is you join the "terrorist" that you flight lead had joined and along with your wingman and fight the critical path corporation and the corrupt High Command UN official who turns out to be your commander, in the end with the help from your "terrorist" meltrandi friend and your old wingman you defeat the Corrupt UN official in the stolen and missile jamming equpiped Macross 13 and the critical path corporation.

this link will point you to a very rough walkthrough of the game but be warned it contains numerous errors like stating the SDF 1 is the enemy vessel when it was really the Macross 13 etc. http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197819/5120

NUNS may just be named that way to restore faith in UN Spacy after cleaning out the house of anti UN traitors or it man just be a name change that the UN Spacy felt they needed due to roles changing or the new era that they lve in now compaired to the state of UN Spacy in Spacy War one and pre New Macross Colony Fleets era of tech and time, like how the Army Air Core became the US Air Force but more than likely its Bandai needing the change for some reason though

By the way MR MARCH hows the game section coming?

EDIT By the way the VF-1X design was just a way to add the VF-1 to the game and make the old design relevant though system upgrades when compaired to the standard fighter of the times the VF-11 which is given to you at the start without making it to weak to the VF-11 as a non upgraded VF-1 would be it is also a good way to extend the life of the mass produced easily available and cheap VF-1 for colonys on a budget and terrorist who use the VF-1 to fight you without giving them a ton of stolen VF-11 and and to add to the Enemy Zentraedi equipment you battle as the terrorist would have little access to VF-17, 19 and 22 craft as evident in the game except where they would be expected like in the hands of the critical path corporation who has connections and government contracts and traitors who were issued them by the UN who didnt know who they truely where at heart.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Sorata

[Tobi54]

With all due respect to everyone, I don't think this is an issue that requires the hammer to come down. The discussion of animation quality, however annoying to some, is maintaining a relatively civil level of debate. There's simply no need to start moderating the hell out everything. There is already a rather uncomfortable level of moderation , but I'm going to write that off to the fact that it's a busy time for Macross World and all that baggage.

Moral of the story: discuss what you want and allow others to do the same. When something truly gets out of hand, believe me, we'll all know it

I couldn't have said it better myself, I agree with you 100% but it looks like little by little the discussion is focusing more on the people discussing it, rather than the actual topic, in other words, it's getting somewhat personal, I'd hate to see a topic worth discussing go down the drain due to this, passing judgement on people and naming-calling due to difference of opinion is un-called for, and should really be avoided in order to keep the discussion civil.

[Elektrix]

I really don't think the GitS:SAC comparisons are fair; if I recall, wasn't it like one of the most expensive and highest budgeted anime TV series ever? I remember Production IG using it as a showcase really for what they were capable of, and giving episodes extraordinary budgets compared to typical TV series.

[Duke Togo]

I never said the animation was on a downward trend, in fact I'm pointing out that the animation will go up and down contrary to what you guys think about ep 1-5 and then 6. The animation in ep 4 was the same or worse than ep 6.

Then the episode 4 you downloaded must be entirely different than the one I did.

As for the posts calling for a separate thread to discuss animation issues, well, I just think that's silly. What we saw in episode 6 may be an isolated case. We may only see it for an episode or two, we might not see this problem again for the rest of the series. The discussion is totally on topic, as we are discussing the art and animation of episode 6.

[Duke Togo]

About the VF-171 vs VF-19, is there a possiblity that NUNS and UNS are not one in the same and there may be split governments? Its not too far fetched to think that an interstellar race be governed by more than just one almighty government. Perhaps after the events of VF-X2, the "rebels" formed the NUNs while the UNS loses some support but is still around?

Except the Frontier is from Earth and is flying the NUNS flag.

[wolfx]

Except the Frontier is from Earth and is flying the NUNS flag.

Think of colonies as countries...only mobile. I'm sure govt. changes are possible enroute. *shrug*

Dunno.

Sorata: wow....that's a mouthful and a tad confusing. But yeah i think i sorta get the plot of VF-X2 now.

[Duke Togo]

Think of colonies as countries...only mobile. I'm sure govt. changes are possible enroute. *shrug*

Dunno.

Ok, UNS ships, you can go home now, the NUNS ships are going to escort us instead?

[Vinnie]

VF-11 was awsome. I was hoping to see some VF-11s in combat. But yeah I cant wait to hear why the VF-171 was chosen rather than the VF-19. I am guessing a polititian screwed over Shinsei Industries and went with General Galaxy instead. like how Chenney screwed Northrop Grumman and went with Boeing.

The VF-11 was junk. It was a low cost, easily mass produceable fighter with some kickin engines. It looked neat, and Isamu sure gave it a good rep in M+ OVA 1. I think the VF-11 in addition of low-cost to manufacture was also probably relatively low-cost in terms of maintenance. Not too many complex or real proprietary systems.

The VF-4 that it replaced was a superior fighter, just old, and probably a maintenance hog. It had a lot of legacy systems from the VF-1 (verniers, avionics, etc) and systems that were just unique to the fighter design (beam cannons, missiles.) Probably very much like the F-14 towards the end of its service: outclassed in many respects by more modern aircraft, a maintainers nightmare, but still the best dogfighter ever.

Lightning fanboyism aside. Some other contemporaries of the VF-11 that are better fighters than the Thud include the VF-14 and the VF-9.

Speaking of the VF-9, I'd equate the VF-25 to the VF-9 in terms of performance compared to peers and mission/purpose more than a main UNS fighter. Right now only a special ops unit / colony has purchased it. I don't recall seeing that this is the next gen NUNS VF.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the issue of modularity where the VF-11 also wins out. A VF-4 is basically taking a FAST Pack on every mission whether or not you want more or less kit. The VF-11 on the other hand can be customized for a variety of roles and threat levels.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Vinnie

[Phil K]

The VF-4 that it replaced was a superior fighter, just old, and probably a maintenance hog. It had a lot of legacy systems from the VF-1 (verniers, avionics, etc) and systems that were just unique to the fighter design (beam cannons, missiles.) Probably very much like the F-14 towards the end of its service: outclassed in many respects by more modern aircraft, a maintainers nightmare, but still the best dogfighter ever.

Huh? Other than the other bunk that you just said, this right there takes the cake. The F-14 wasn't a dogfighter, it was an interceptor, more accurately, it was a missile delivery system for the Phoenix AAM. If we're talking about a pure knife fighter, the most proven one is the F-15 Strike Eagle.

[Batou]

I still say you guys are reading too much into it. The 11's, 19's, and 21/22's were featured in two series already, and Kawamori has moved on to something new. They're still cool, and we may see them make cameos, but they're just old old old designs now. Any official explanation released will just be justification for why he's made the design/story choices he's made.

He's the George Lucas of the Macross world, and if he wants to reshoot the original Macross series digitally inserting Jar Jar in scenes and changing all the valks into pink flying unicorns that shoot rainbow confetti out of their horns, he's going to do it. And someone will create an "official" explanation as to how this is supposed to fit into continuity and make sense.

And I'm sure we'd see threads at MW bitterly debating the muzzle velocity of rainbow confetti soon after.

[wolfx]

Ok, UNS ships, you can go home now, the NUNS ships are going to escort us instead?

If a certain political party example republicans and democrats take over the government, do all the navy and military change as well? Same case here.