Anima Spiritia MO

[jasgripen]

I was watching M0 again and we all know that with sheryl nome's singing, she was able to lift rocks and magically revive plants, and i noticed that they are able to connect telepathically,(pls. correct me if I am wrong.) the example was like mao shouting or trying to communicate with shin when he was going straight to sara...now here's the thing ....are the priestess of Mayan island or people from mayan islands anima spiritia? I didnt watch the whole of M7 but from what I read Basara is and Anima Spiritia, is it possible that he is a descendant from a surviving mayan villager?

[Radd]

Anima spiritua isn't some mystical Jedi power, anyone can "be" "anima spiritua"

All of the magic like stuff in Macross Zero seemed to be due to a ton of Protoculture technology in the area ( in the under water sequence, the "terrain" bears a striking resemblance to the skyline of the protoculture city from DYRL) reacting to descendants of the protoculture's experimentation with earth life.

I doubt Basara is related to any Mayans. I wouldn't rule out the possibility entirely, in fact I'd say the chances are not bad that a large portion of the human race is currently descended from Mayans, if any Mayans were amongst those on the Macross when most of humanity was wiped out. However, from a story telling perspective, it would just be contrived, and it also hurts the Macross theme of the indomitable human spirit if you chalk up human victories to a few magical musical Jedi people.

[VFTF1]

Yeah - what he said.

I would also add that it was the power of song which lifted those rocks - and it probably did so because the rocks were fragments of the Protoculture city which reacted to such things - perhaps the protoculture generally developed what in M7 was tentatively called "Sound Energy" and perhaps certain materials were built to be moved by the use of sound energy.

In any case - it is not mysticism. On m7, Sound Energy is developed by the science division and while the science behind it is unclear - it is explicitly science and not "magic."

Anime Spiritia is simply a kind of animating spirit - it is kind of like the kernel of life, of conscious happy joyous life - it is more a psychological energy than a physical one...

In any event - the question is fun because it treds on ground we hardly know anything about: namely how the Protoculture lived; what was their every day life like?

I venture, based on what we've seen, that Protoculture used Sound Energy in every day dealings - "pass the salt" ... "La la la la!" (and the salt shaker flew over to you).

Sound crazy?

Equally crazy as the initial Protoculture Evolution Theory!

VFTF1

[Gubaba]

I was watching M0 again and we all know that with sheryl nome's singing, she was able to lift rocks and magically revive plants, and i noticed that they are able to connect telepathically,(pls. correct me if I am wrong.) the example was like mao shouting or trying to communicate with shin when he was going straight to sara...now here's the thing ....are the priestess of Mayan island or people from mayan islands anima spiritia? I didnt watch the whole of M7 but from what I read Basara is and Anima Spiritia, is it possible that he is a descendant from a surviving mayan villager?

*sigh* It's bad enough having to deal with this question in the MF threads without it spilling over into the rest of the forum, as it were.

Anima Spirita is simply the ability to regenerate Spirtia and to affect/bind/transform the Protodeviln.

So, is Sara anima spirtia?

Well, did anyone get their spiritia stolen in M0? No.

Did any Protoedviln show up to be affected by her? No.

So she may have the power of Anima Spiritia, but unless one of those two things happens, we'll never know.

You may as well ask, "Could Sharon Apple have brought culture to the Zentradi?" or "Could the Milky Dolls have defeated the Protodeviln?"

[Keith]

Actually, Sara could be Anima Spiritia, as she did use her song rejvinate some of the forrest life.

As for the lifting rocks/etc, it's definatel due to her Protoculture ancestry, as the ruins along with the AFOS were designed to react to their family line.

[VFTF1]

Which again brings us around to the fascinating question of just who were the Protoculture - in terms of how did they live, how did they communicate? What kind of technology and science did they have?

The one forever unanswered question in the Macross universe

VFTF1

[Mr March]

I was always under the impression Sara's signing affected the AFOS and it was AFOS which in turn affected the Island of Maya. The two were connected. Later in the series we see the AFOS lifting all kinds of things all around the island with its gravity control technology (such as the naval ships of the UN and Anti-UN Forces).

[Zinjo]

Anima Spiritia (from what I got from rewatching the last few eps of M7) is the ability to regenerate a life spirit. I realize the rainbow rays and supernatural properties given to it in M7 confuse what it really is...

I got no impression that it was solely related to the PD. It could have been an ability the PC used in medicine and botany and ultimately found it effective in their PD war...

Edited May 5, 2008 by Zinjo

[Elektrix]

Actually, Sara could be Anima Spiritia, as she did use her song rejvinate some of the forrest life.

As for the lifting rocks/etc, it's definatel due to her Protoculture ancestry, as the ruins along with the AFOS were designed to react to their family line.

It's too bad Basara didn't have any of that DNA - might have been able to actually move that mountain.

[Sergorn]

Anima Spiritia (from what I got from rewatching the last few eps of M7) is the ability to regenerate a life spirit. I realize the rainbow rays and supernatural properties given to it in M7 confuse what it really is...

I got no impression that it was solely related to the PD. It could have been an ability the PD used in medicine and botany and ultimately found it effective in their PD war...

Yeah I agree. Spiritia in itself has no relation to the Protodevilins whatsoever and I think there is some confusion going on about all this. Spiritia is simply life energy, or rather spiritual energy I would say - it doesn't need any Protodevilin to exists or potentially have some use. The Protodevilins simply *feed* on Spiritia, just like Vampire would feed on blood. But blood don't need Vampires to exists

Besides we already see some application of Anima Spiritia unrelated to the Protodevilin in The Galaxy is Calling Me, where song energy (which I would consider "formed" from Anima Spiritia) is used to grow plants.

I definitly think there is a connection to Anima Spiritia in Macross Zero even if is not named as such - it makes sense IMO. As a matter of fact I do a couple of people who felt utterly confused by that whole "magical" stuff in Macross Zero, but just "got it" after seeing Macross 7.

-Sergorn

[Duke Togo]

Spiritia isn't magic, and Anima Spiritia aren't magicians. And what happened in Zero is totally unrelated. The Mayan natives are different, they are there for a reason. Basara couldn't have shown up and done what Sara did.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Duke Togo

[treatment]

It's too bad Basara didn't have any of that DNA - might have been able to actually move that mountain.

The mountain (or anything) ain't gonna move unless it's got a PC marking like in Zero.

[VFTF1]

I was always under the impression Sara's signing affected the AFOS and it was AFOS which in turn affected the Island of Maya. The two were connected. Later in the series we see the AFOS lifting all kinds of things all around the island with its gravity control technology (such as the naval ships of the UN and Anti-UN Forces).

That's it! Mr. March has hit on the answer - of course!

After all - when Shin and Mao kissed, AFORS seemed to radiat joy. Singing must have the same effect.

Basically when AFOS sees the good in humanity - there is great joy. When he sees humans warring - he seems forced to terminate the experiment which is the human race.

Makes perfect sense.

VFTF1

[Gubaba]

Yeah I agree. Spiritia in itself has no relation to the Protodevilins whatsoever and I think there is some confusion going on about all this. Spiritia is simply life energy, or rather spiritual energy I would say - it doesn't need any Protodevilin to exists or potentially have some use. The Protodevilins simply *feed* on Spiritia, just like Vampire would feed on blood. But blood don't need Vampires to exists

Besides we already see some application of Anima Spiritia unrelated to the Protodevilin in The Galaxy is Calling Me, where song energy (which I would consider "formed" from Anima Spiritia) is used to grow plants.

I definitly think there is a connection to Anima Spiritia in Macross Zero even if is not named as such - it makes sense IMO. As a matter of fact I do a couple of people who felt utterly confused by that whole "magical" stuff in Macross Zero, but just "got it" after seeing Macross 7.

-Sergorn

I agree with you on the campire connection...but to extend your metaphor a bit, let's say someone has vampire-repelling super-blood. If no vampires show up to be repelled by that blood, the person will never know that they have super-blood. So anima spirita is pretty much irrelevant in any context that doesn't involve Protdeviln.

Now Song Energy is a different story. In the Galaxy is Calling Me, they were trying to use Mylene's song energy to grow the flowers...very different from anima spirita. And I do believe that song energy played a big part in Zero.

[Zinjo]

I agree with you on the campire connection...but to extend your metaphor a bit, let's say someone has vampire-repelling super-blood. If no vampires show up to be repelled by that blood, the person will never know that they have super-blood. So anima spirita is pretty much irrelevant in any context that doesn't involve Protdeviln.

Now Song Energy is a different story. In the Galaxy is Calling Me, they were trying to use Mylene's song energy to grow the flowers...very different from anima spirita. And I do believe that song energy played a big part in Zero.

Without the anima spiritia ability song energy cannot be generated, however that doesn't account for Sara's ability to regenerate the plants on the island... Song energy was apparently in some fantastic way was harnessed from the anima spiritia ability. Outside of Mac 7 it was a naturally occuring phenomena that the PC knew about and in some form might have utilized...

[Sergorn]

Now Song Energy is a different story. In the Galaxy is Calling Me, they were trying to use Mylene's song energy to grow the flowers...very different from anima spirita. And I do believe that song energy played a big part in Zero.

Well yeah I see your point but I'm with Zinjo here. In my mind, Song Energy comes from Anima Spiritia - so I don't really see them as seperate. (Right if I follow that logic, that would mean that Mylene & al are also "Anima Spiritia" in a way - but that's how I would see it ; I wouldn't consider Anima Spiritia tu be a unique thing solely related to Basara, rather he was the only one at first with the willpower to harness it)

-Sergorn

[Gubaba]

Without the anima spiritia ability song energy cannot be generated, however that doesn't account for Sara's ability to regenerate the plants on the island... Song energy was apparently in some fantastic way was harnessed from the anima spiritia ability. Outside of Mac 7 it was a naturally occuring phenomena that the PC knew about and in some form might have utilized...

Well yeah I see your point but I'm with Zinjo here. In my mind, Song Energy comes from Anima Spiritia - so I don't really see them as seperate. (Right if I follow that logic, that would mean that Mylene & al are also "Anima Spiritia" in a way - but that's how I would see it ; I wouldn't consider Anima Spiritia tu be a unique thing solely related to Basara, rather he was the only one at first with the willpower to harness it)

-Sergorn

Honest difference of opinion, I suppose...and without the ability to pick the Hory Froating Head's equally Hory and equally Froating brain, we'll probably never get a straight answer on it.

I just thought that Basara's abilities and Dr. Chiba's "Sound Energy" theroies just dovetailed nicely, but that neither was reliant on the other. But then, all the Sound Busters and Speaker Pod Gammas in the galaxy couldn't help the Jamming Birds create enough Song Energy to drive off a Protodeviln mosquito. But then (as Segorn points out), Mylene, through hard practice, gains enough power to make an effect. But still...

And I'm tying myself in knots here, with no end in sight.

For me, one of the big problems is the way that they describe anime spirita in the show...it's the power the bound the Protodeviln...Sivil shouts it when Basara starts singing, and Geperunitchi says that Basara IS anima spirita, rather than Basara HAS anima spiritia.

Anyway, if you see Anima Spiritia as, let's say, the fuel for Song Energy (and that's certainly a plausible reading), then yes, I can see where you could say that Sara is anima spirtia (and Minmay must have been as well, since it was through her singing that Dr. Chiba first hit upon his theory). If you look at them as separate things that just happen to mesh well (as I do) then it's unimportant who is or isn't anima spiritia, as long as one of them is around when a Protodeviln decides to snack on your life force.

[Mr March]

That's it! Mr. March has hit on the answer - of course!

Makes perfect sense.

Glad you agree I felt it just unifes the known facts so much better, not to mention it also works thematically. Besides, we know Protoculture OverTechnology can control gravity and we know the Protoculture possessed all kinds of incredibly advanced biotechnology. It was probably the AFOS that influenced the mayan natives to create their belief system in the way they did. Sara appeared connected with the AFOS on many concious/unconscious levels and the AFOS reacting to her in turn affected events on the island.

This theory also has the added benefit of explaining virtually all the supernatural visions/powers/events in the show, it explains why the AFOS connected with Sara and it explains why Sara stayed with the AFOS when it departed Earth.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Mr March