newbie question on painting

[SpaceCowboy]

I just scanned over wm_cheng's YF-21 step by step and am floored. And to imagine he did this in aroudn 2 weeks (judging by the posts) is awesome.

Now, on to my question...

I've just started painting my models. I've done three so far and have learned lots each time. After looking through cheng's post, I noticed he put the primer on once most of it was assembled. Is this normal, or for more mobile models (gundams, transforming valks) is it better to prime individual parts as they are placed together, paint them, then add them to the total assembly? What I'm saying is, if you have a leg, do you prime and paint the foot, then attach it to the leg, or do you do so afterwards, or what?

SpaceCowboy

[azrael]

In my experience, it's always best to paint first before you assemble. For me, I take it all the way through the painting stage before I start assembling (minus touch up, applying clear coats, etc). Depending on the piece, you can assemble it and paint it afterwards but I find that to be prone to errors so I just paint, paint, add panel lines and major details, then assemble.

[Skull Leader]

It's really a question of personal taste. I don't assemble the whole model, but I do assemble like-components before I paint

(example: 1/100 scale ARII VF-1J Battroid)

Assemble the upper thigh-paint it

Assemble the Foot-paint it

Paint the lower-leg halves

-Assemble the entire Leg

and so on....

The basic rule of thumb being, the more detail that has to go into a piece, the more painting/panel-lining you'll wanna do before you glue it into place.

[tetsujin]

The overall motivation behind this decision is to make things easier. Some assembly has to be done before painting or there's no way to clean up the seams: so generally I do a certain amount of the assembly work before painting (as much as I can, really), then paint, assemble what needs to be assembled, paint any touch-ups and whatnot, etc.

For different kits this process can vary. For a Gundam kit, generally things are modular enough that I can break the whole thing down into individual components, paint them separately, and reassemble. No fuss, no muss. The Hasegawa Battroid is generally the same way, though there are some areas that are a bit more complicated to deal with, like the plates that seal off the inside of the torso on the sides, or the visor on the S-type head. The only way to deal with the visor is to mask it off when you paint the head. You can't paint the head before assembling, and you can't put the visor in after assembling. The chest stuff might be easier to paint before installing, since the boundary between it and the surrounding areas is hidden well enough that it shouldn't matter much how you handle it.

For older kits, this process is complicated by the fact that a lot of those old plastic-on-plastic joints aren't modular. Sometimes (as with my Glaug) I'll rejoint the parts to make the assembly more modular. Other times I'll just deal with it, assemble things and then paint them as large assemblies. That leads to a lot of masking, though.

The Arii example in the previous message (painting the lower leg halves, then assemblint them) can work, but you'll wind up with a visible seam down the middle of the leg. That's sloppy. A better solution (without altering the parts structurally) would be like this: Assemble upper leg and foot. paint them. Let the paint dry, and cover them with masking tape, then install them in the lower leg halves and assemble the lower leg and clean up the seams. Now paint the lower leg. When the paint's dry, remove the masking tape from the upper leg and foot.

Edited October 29, 2003 by tetsujin

[SpaceCowboy]

Thanks everyone. All of this is very helpful.

Next Question: Does it make sense to prime the pieces before individual construction, then put them together, putty, and prime again? I'm practicing on a patrol labor model I have. Since there are a lot of moveable joints, I'm putting small parts together and then priming and painting. With some pieces though, it will be nearly impossible to prime doing it this way, as they will be covered by other pieces and be surrounding still other interior pieces.

My current thinking is not to worry too much about the interior joint pieces, and just paint them (no priming) since they will barely be visible. Then on the larger sections (legs armor, arm armor, torso), mask off any different colored parts, prime, then paint. And I'm doing this by assembling as small section (the foot for instance) then doing the priming, painting coloring. I'll do the leg the same and mask off any joints that can't be removed before painting.

This is all kind of hard to describe, did that make any sense?

Oh, and unless my original question got lost in the babble: Is it always necessary to prime a piece before painting, or for smaller, lesser seen pieces, is it ok to just paint them without the prime coat?

SpaceCowboy

[azrael]

Oh, and unless my original question got lost in the babble: Is it always necessary to prime a piece before painting, or for smaller, lesser seen pieces, is it ok to just paint them without the prime coat?

SpaceCowboy

Yes. That's the whole point of primer. Primer is suppose to give a paintable surface to something so that you can paint it. For smaller lesser seen pieces? That's up to you. Half the time I prime the piece, half the time, I don't, especially if it's a joint piece.

[dyowelb]

spacecowboy,

once you're done maybe you canpost some pix of your work..and step by step procedure.

dyowelb

[SpaceCowboy]

I thought about it, but it's not a macross model, so I'm not sure if it would be appropriate. Also I'm not sure a step by step would be useful from someone that is still learning how to do this as I'm probably going to make some mistakes. If it turns out ok, I will post a picture of the final product though.

I've already decided for my next project I'm going to try that Mr. Surfacer 500, as I don't like repeatedly sanding to fill in small seams.

I was also surprised how fast my primer ran out. I got a small can and it ran out after 2 1/2 coats. So I wasn't able to get the smooth prime that I wanted, though it is probably sufficient for the job.

So far, no seams in the arms or legs can be seen, yeah!

SpaceCowboy

[Grayson72]

The YF21 model that WM did isn't a good example of sub-assembly painting because on that model there isn't one. You should study the instructions and see how the different parts can form subassemblies. The best example of this is the VF-1 Hasegawa kits. They really thought about the model builder when they created this model.

Sub assembly examples on the VF-1:

Cockpit

nose cone

thrust nozzles

two separate assemblies for the legs

wings

tail section

all landing gear

arms

main body

Aside from the cockpit and thrust nozzles, all of these sub assemblies can be painted and decalled until fully complete if you want.

I don't use primer FYI.

Edited November 2, 2003 by Grayson72

[Less than Super Ostrich]

On the question of primer... for the Hasegawas, I would just wash it with light soap (to get the mold release off), and then paint it without primer. For a resin kit, I would DEFINITELY use primer... most of the resin I have dealt with (not many, mind you) do not adhere real well to the acrylic paints. Primer really helps it stick.

[wm cheng]

Hello all, great tips!

I normally haven't primed any of my Hasegawa models - the fine engraving details are just too shallow to stand up to too many coats of paint. However, because the YF-21 is molded in dark blue, I thought to get my shades of blue to show up - it would be wise to start on a neutral base of light grey. Its always easy to darken a lighter base colour, but it will take a lot of coats to lighten a dark base colour. Additionally, there were more filling and sanding of this kit than usual for a Hasegawa kit, so the primer provides a nice indicator of how well the fill and sanding job went. I would only prime after I have filled and sanded (if I were to prime). A lot of the other valkyrie kits are molded in white, especially if you intend to paint them in white, you don't need to prime - just make sure your sanding is complete when you eliminate the construction seams.

Hey its all a learning process, I learn with every one of my models. It would be great to post your experiences with your model (I for one would love to read them) including mistakes and all. I often include my mistakes - then post a solution too, since it might come in handy for similar problems (like when my masking tape pulled off my decals for my VE-1 radome ARRGH!).

Good luck,