Macross Frontier Episode 5 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Shouta]

yeah, no kiddin, AiA must be having some problems if Shinsen just beat 'em.

mmm html, always hate the aftertaste of CSS.

[grss1982]

Just watched it last night.

This was really a great episode without have action sequences. Its great in the sense that we finally get a confirmation more or less that there was really something going on between Kathy and Ozma. I loved the part were Kathy playfully talked to Ozma about his affections for Ranka, and how it would have been nice if Ozma had such affections for her, and then Kathy suddenly caught herself and became all business.

Also its been apparently confirmed that Ranka's singing does have some effect on the Vajra. Re-animated Red Lobster, anyone? If I miss my guess that Red Lobster was the one that Ozma took down in Episode 2. My question though is how or what weapon was Leon using to dispose the re-animated Red Lobster? Maybe SMS and NUNS could use that aside from the Zentraedi weapon that Alto picked up in episode 4.

AND as a parting shot.......GIANT PANTY FTW!!!!

EDIT:

This might sound weird but I'm really digging the cell Phones of Ranka and Ozma. I want one of each!!!! Well I want Ranka's more than Ozma's though.

Edited May 9, 2008 by grss1982

[wolfx]

That - in my opinion - is a racist sentiment. The Zendradi were grown to be that size; it is their natural state. If we accept that they are sentient beings, then they have the same natural rights to life and freedom that humans do. Humans cannot force them to become Myclones just because it might be more utilitarian to do so.

By that logic, maybe humans should therefore shrink themselves proportionally to the size of small mice?

Also - think about how much more "economical" it is when you have people the size of the Zendradi around - people who, by their very constitution - can even survive in outer-space for a short time. These guys do the same job as 100 human beings. The can build a dam in less time, they can build buildings in less time - they save time and resources and stream-line work.

The presence of one Zendradi worker relieves one hundred human beings of back breaking toil - and the Zendradi worker probably doesn't even feel the same physical exhaustion that one hundred humans would feel.

So not only is the argument immoral because it presumes that some sort of economic calculus renders the Zendradi harmful to the good of humanity, but is is even wrong on it's own merits - because the Zendradi presence is actually economically beneficial to mankind by drastically reducing the cost of labor and freeing up those resources to be used elswhere or - to be consumed on liesure time.

VFTF1

Good points....except Zentraedi were not naturally giant to begin with. They were genetically engineered (for the zentran rage, vacuum resilience etc) and macronised to be giants and cloned to reproduce. After so many decades after Space War I, i think 90% of Zentrans are already miclonised and reproduced normally. Part of the peace deal and agreement to be assimilated into human society was micronisation after all. So i wouldn't say so much it is a racist sentiment but more of practicality/utalitarian.

And about Zentraedi ddoing the job of a hundred men, we have Work Destroids for those.

But lets not go into the sociology of giant zentrans. I wanna keep it more to the economics. To own a set of giant panties for example is gonna cost them a gaziillion dollars to own....how does one quantify that? Do Zentrans earn more money than humans to own a set of giant panties? I think you can see a pair of high-heeled shoes that Sheryl plays in, that costs something like 380,000,000,000,000 or something. How does that work?

I didn't get that implication. They had already established that people were singing at the entrance, and the first guitarist was shown to be sitting by a shop window. I'm under the assumption that they were all musicians hanging around the mall and were similarly enthralled by Ranka's singing. She was singing a well-known tune, so It's no surprise they could play along. If I was sitting around with a guitar, and some adorable little girl nearby started singing a song I knew, I'd sure as hell back her up!

Rangerkarl on IRC pointed out that the guitarist was using what looked like Basara's guitar. I looked and hell....i think it IS basara's guitar. That or at least it looks identical and probably put in there as a homage. Nice!

On the other hand, she was standing with a microphone in hand - she had to get it from somewhere. Maybe she convinced the mall band to give here a shot at the mic.

A couple of things struck me about the Folmo Mall:

1) Do Zentraedi singers need microphones?

2) What kind of engineering goes into making 5' Pumps?

3) I missed the verbal echo, but it was nice to see KK full-sized in that sweater. Perhaps she only miclones when it's necessary to go to one of the other islands. I wonder if Pixie squadron takes a tram from that island over to the M1/4, or is the M1/4 actually based there?

4) Is it a good idea to wear skirts as a macronized Zentraedi?

5) Would it be ironic or perverted to make a set of sheets out of those panties? Both?

1.) To the average myclone, probably not. But to a whole buncha Zentraedi, yes. Watch "Honey I Shrunk The Kids" for reference.

2.) 5' what?

3.) Yeah...i question the lack of verbal echo as well. Were they on the Macross Quarter? I thought that was a seperate zentran farm module or something.

4.) Probably not....u might get stepped on accidentally in a fit of female zentran rage.

5.) When inspiration hits an artist...do not disturb.

Also its been apparently confirmed that Ranka's singing does have some effect on the Vajra. Re-animated Red Lobster, anyone? If I miss my guess that Red Lobster was the one that Ozma took down in Episode 2. My question though is how or what weapon was Leon using to dispose the re-animated Red Lobster? Maybe SMS and NUNS could use that aside from the Zentraedi weapon that Alto picked up in episode 4.

Must be some "vaporiser" or "disintegrator" built into the stasis pod, and probably not applicable as a weapon. Or maybe it folded the lobster out of there.

[Graham]

Must be some "vaporiser" or "disintegrator" built into the stasis pod, and probably not applicable as a weapon. Or maybe it folded the lobster out of there.

Perhaps some sort of microwave. Maybe what the full size Zentradi use to nuke their TV dinners.......LOL!

Lobster for dinner anyone?

Graham

[darkrealmbahamut]

You can't eat them Graham didn't you hear? The larger the lobster the tougher the meat... Then the fact it has a giant death ray makes me hide the claw crackers.

[Westlo]

Sheryl also strongly believes in doing what she likes when she wants it (which is ok but NOT when it endangers others - when she insists on going out of that emergency pit, what if it was vacuum outside the pit? she could've killed all 3 of them), Sheryl is also a big bully esp to Alto etc etc... lots of bad traits to list.

She took that chance because she felt it was a chance worth taking over slowly dying due to a lack of oxygen and she was right since there was no vacuum. What if Grace couldn't track Sheryl down and Alto talked Sheryl out of it? Alto's way would have ended with all 3 dying from a lack of oxygen. Sheryl opening the exit suits her character and her words inspired Alto later in that episode into thinking the same way.. Sheryl in the bunker, "Destiny is something you take ahold of!". Alto to Ozma in the hospital later that episode "I could never leave my destiny in the hands of another!".

[VFTF1]

Well - as to the economics of the Zendradi...

This is again bordering on racism because economics as a science is constant independent of what species you apply it to. It's like physics - you don't say that the laws of physics change when dealing with Zendradi - so why should economic laws change when dealing with them?

The idea that different rules of economics applies to different species would mean that there is no such thing as science - there is "human science" and "zendradi science" (aka science is different depending on what race you are).

There are still scare reasources, and everything we know about how supply and demand functions still holds.

I don't see this as a problem. If you have an entire species of giants who are acting beings - they need to economize time and scare resources just like the rest of us and are beholden to the same laws of supply and demand as the rest of us.

If these giants create demand for consumer goods tailored to their needs - the market will respond by providing consumer goods tailored to their need.

The idea that one giant pair of underwear could have been sewn into 100 little pares of underwear for "needy" humans is just bogus.

This is because there is no way to know - beyond the price mechanism - how to allocate resources. Supply and demand reflected in ever changing prices (because supply and demand are every changing variables) tell people how much of what to produce and how much of what it makes sense to buy.

The implication is that if we made it illegal for the Zendradi to be giants because they "consume too many resources" - then there would be more stuff to go around.

This is just not true. There would actually be less stuff to go around because resources would be diverted to getting around the ban.

A black market in Zendradi enclaves would pop up. Zendradis who don't want to Miclonize would organize, try to seceed, break away or gain autonomy. They would go into hiding, build their own society.

And the servicing of simple Zendradi needs - like giant underwear - would be hanlded by mobsters. The cost of underwear for Zendradi would multiply because suddenly it's not just the labor/production/transport etc that are factored into the price - but the risk of getting caught by the cops, bribes for politicians and police chiefs, guns to arm thugs driving around with illegal Zenradi underwear and the general costs of periodic gang wars as rival mobs duke it out for access to the political/police class - who have the monopoly on the legal use of force.

Think of the analogy with alcohol beign made illegal in the US during probition.

You could say - gee - if everybody stopped drinking then we'd have more resources to dedicate to making baby food for little babies.

But in reality, a ban would only push a market underground as it did under prohibition (and does in the drug war now) - and drive up the costs of the good.

So instead of "saving" resources for other "worthy" needs - such a policy would actually divert even MORE resources to the thing you think of as "unworthy" - and hurt the things you think of as "worthy."

The point here then - and it is obviously visible in Macross Frontier - is that just because you have big giant people living amongst you - doesn't mean that different economics applies to them.

On this note - I guess I agree with Kaifun when he yelled at Ichijo Hikaru that the Zendradi have a right to use the Micloning devices whenever they want (although in fairness- Hikaru did promise that the UN would permit access to the device for anyone wanting it).

As to whether Zendradi have their own currency - maybe - but I actually doubt that the prices would be that drastically different. After all - most Zendradi would have TWO wardrobes - one for miclones and the other for when they're normal sized.

Klan Klan obviously has two wardrobes. The fact that this is common means that - just like in the real, human world - people have come up with ways to service the needs of the Zendradi cheaply and efficiently - and it is a process that continues.

or so me thinks

VFTF1

[Heron]

mmm html, always hate the aftertaste of CSS.

Hmm..

Making a web site maybe?

[big F]

Well I think it is shapping up to be a great series.

[Kelsain]

Rangerkarl on IRC pointed out that the guitarist was using what looked like Basara's guitar. I looked and hell....i think it IS basara's guitar. That or at least it looks identical and probably put in there as a homage. Nice!

Yeah, I noticed that little homage, I thought it was cool. But of course, it doesn't mean it actually IS Basara's guitar, could be the same brand. Then again, it could be... IIRC, didn't Basara ditch the guitar, and head out with an acoustic in Dynamite? Maybe Ray hocked it on M-bay to get money for booze. So hard to wash away the memories of Sound Force...

1.) To the average myclone, probably not. But to a whole buncha Zentraedi, yes. Watch "Honey I Shrunk The Kids" for reference.

2.) 5' what?

3.) Yeah...i question the lack of verbal echo as well. Were they on the Macross Quarter? I thought that was a seperate zentran farm module or something.

4.) Probably not....u might get stepped on accidentally in a fit of female zentran rage.

5.) When inspiration hits an artist...do not disturb.

1. First time I've ever seen someone say "Watch "Honey I Shrunk The Kids" for reference" , but I do concede the point

2. Ladies' shoes

3. I was just thinking that if KK, Nene and Ramaria could walk to the M1/4, living most of the time full-sized, it would cut down on deployment time. Might also avoid any potential complications from over-micloning, considering KK's condition. Plus, it appears from the opening credits that the M1/4 is attached to one of the smaller islands. On the other hand, it might just be tucked into a corner of Island1 - after all, Sheryl went to SMS HQ with no sight of Zentraedi. I'm just letting my mind wander at this point, I'm sure we'll find out.

4. You're right, that's a very good deterrent for naughty behavior - though I'm sure some would take the risk.

5. I just thought it would bring a whole new layer to getting in someone's panties.

[grss1982]

Perhaps some sort of microwave. Maybe what the full size Zentradi use to nuke their TV dinners.......LOL!

Lobster for dinner anyone?

Graham

Uhmmmm...it makes it own missles and has a big ass gun.

The thought of them "cooking off" scares the hell out of me.

Anyways...watched it for the Nth time and I cant get the "What 'bout my star" song (Ranak and Sheryl versions) out of my head. I'm locing these songs for and more.

[kensei]

Yeah, I noticed that little homage, I thought it was cool. But of course, it doesn't mean it actually IS Basara's guitar, could be the same brand. Then again, it could be... IIRC, didn't Basara ditch the guitar, and head out with an acoustic in Dynamite? Maybe Ray hocked it on M-bay to get money for booze. So hard to wash away the memories of Sound Force...

What was even weirder, is that the person was dressed as Basara, from what little I could make of the waist and also arm bands. It sure as hell wasn't the first guitarist we saw.

[Mark Nguyen]

It was not. Here's a pic for reference:

http://kensforce.com/04m72.jpg

Definitley looks like Basara's guitar or one like it. The guy wearing it might be a Basara-type outfit, but honestly, it's tough to determine ANYTHING because of the context of the song and where any of these magicians actually are (if they exist at all).

Mark

[VFTF1]

Well - note that another fellow was playing the key-board like contraption like Ray

VFTF1

[Steve]

Well considering the first guitarist appeared to be sitting next to a display of guitars and it is a shopping district I kinda get the feeling that he's at least actually there. Though I'm taking a leap of faith in reasoning that since she has a mic she might have had to go to said music store to get it... but theres also the cartoon logic route in which all discusion of the scene is purely stupid to partake in and we should just sit back and go wow that was a wicked!

[Keith]

I've only been able to catch a pretty basic sub of this episode so far, but did they say the Vajra was caught 19 years before? (2040)? If so, that would explain the major push of unmanned fighters, as well as Max setting up Project M.

[VFTF1]

No no...

They said that "no explanation is needed for those who survived the Vajra attack" 19 years ago.

The one they caught is from the most recent battle on Frontier.

As for Ranka's "mall concert" - I never doubted for a moment that the musicians were real - I mean; music is a big thing is Zendradi culture (for obvious reasons) and Zendradi are ultra-sensitive to the stuff - so I'm betting there were musicians sitting around that mall jamming the whole time. It didn't seem contrived to have them there. Given what we know about Zendradi history -it makes sense that they'd treat music as something fundamental and music would probably appear everywhere they went in everything they did

VFTF1

[Batou]

Yahoo! AiA #5 is out.

[Gubaba]

Belated epiphany here: After watching this episode subbed (and the explanation of implants), I suddenly understood why Sheryl had told Alto not to spread pictures of her breasts all over the web...that had confused me when she said it...

[VFTF1]

I actually still don't understand that. Breast implants are surely not illegal? They meant cyber-ship implants or something of the sort? no?

Help. Explain - enlighten me please

VFTF1

[Heron]

I actually still don't understand that. Breast implants are surely not illegal? They meant cyber-ship implants or something of the sort? no?

Help. Explain - enlighten me please

VFTF1

Because everyone will go out and have Sheryl Breat Implants if the image of the Real Deals get out on the Macronet...

[Gubaba]

I actually still don't understand that. Breast implants are surely not illegal? They meant cyber-ship implants or something of the sort? no?

Help. Explain - enlighten me please

VFTF1

Not brEAST implants, brAIN implants!

The concert footage we saw in episode 2 (where Sheryl realized Alto had her earring), was filmed by Grace, using only her eyes (and the implant). She didn't know that the implants were illegal on Frontier, and figured that Alto took a snapshot of her when her dress fell.

(Whew! Glad that wasn't so obvious...I was expecting everyone to jump on me for it...)

[ackem]

Belated epiphany here: After watching this episode subbed (and the explanation of implants), I suddenly understood why Sheryl had told Alto not to spread pictures of her breasts all over the web...that had confused me when she said it...

Yeah, I was confused by that line about spreading the images in episode 3 until this one too. The whole thing about letting him use the memory of her goodies now makes more sense too.

[taksraven]

Yeah, I was confused by that line about spreading the images in episode 3 until this one too. The whole thing about letting him use the memory of her goodies now makes more sense too.

Its effectively telling the punchline of the joke first.

Taksraven

[Heron]

Not brEAST implants, brAIN implants!

The concert footage we saw in episode 2 (where Sheryl realized Alto had her earring), was filmed by Grace, using only her eyes (and the implant). She didn't know that the implants were illegal on Frontier, and figured that Alto took a snapshot of her when her dress fell.

(Whew! Glad that wasn't so obvious...I was expecting everyone to jump on me for it...)

Wow, your smart!

[VFTF1]

See - the problem is that I only have the non-extended version of Episode 1 on my laptop. I didn't even KNOW there was a longer version with this key sceen and that Sheryl lost her dress and what not - so the entire "I must find Alto the acrobat!" thread of the plot that started in episode 2 was completely bizarre for me I've had to work backwards to make sense of it.

VFTF1

[UN Spacy]

Yahoo! AiA #5 is out.

Sugoi!

[Sundown]

Which specific version has the extended scene? Episode 2 didn't make sense to me either.

[Gubaba]

See - the problem is that I only have the non-extended version of Episode 1 on my laptop. I didn't even KNOW there was a longer version with this key sceen and that Sheryl lost her dress and what not - so the entire "I must find Alto the acrobat!" thread of the plot that started in episode 2 was completely bizarre for me I've had to work backwards to make sense of it.

VFTF1

Which specific version has the extended scene? Episode 2 didn't make sense to me either.

Shame! SHAME! SHAME for not downloading the broadcast version of the episode!

I don't know how AiA-IZ distinguishes it, but if you get Shinsen Subs episode 1b, or the Gattai episode 1, you're getting the broadcast version. It has less mecha porn, but more of Sheryl being snooty and demanding...as well as setting up the "What 'Bout My Earring" subplot.

[Project Phoenix]

They should release a Macross Frontier RPG. There is so much subplots to go around.

[Shouta]

Hmm..

Making a web site maybe?

For work.

[broody]

AiA's Ep 5sub is up.. if anybody's concerned ...

[mike_s_6]

AiA's Ep 5sub is up.. if anybody's concerned ...

I think this would fit better on the episode 5 thread though, but thanks

[broody]

*smacks head* .. totally forgot about that...

[VFTF1]

I just remembered- I might have a new favorite character who emerges in episode 5!

Namely the Zendradi fellow with with the glasses... the older man who is most amazed by Ranka's talent and runs up to her after she's finished singing, calling to her.

We don't know who he is, what he wants... but I'm guessing he wants to promote her!

And good!

I already like him

VFTF1