Macross Frontier Episode 5 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Elektrix]

It was just a spur of the moment thing for Sheryl. She didn't think to ask Alto if he had any paper on him, she just grabbed the first thing she saw that she could write on.

Or maybe she's just a kinky that way and likes writting on giant panties! ;D

Graham

Oh yeah, I get that it was spur of the moment and Sheryl wasn't going to think to ask Alto for some paper to write on. Just thought it was funny that once she starts writing, we just see him sitting there making a paper airplane when he presumably could have offered it to her.

[ron5864]

Oh yeah, I get that it was spur of the moment and Sheryl wasn't going to think to ask Alto for some paper to write on. Just thought it was funny that once she starts writing, we just see him sitting there making a paper airplane when he presumably could have offered it to her.

Well if Alto had offered her that piece of paper to write with, then what will he make his airplane with? Hmm....probably not with that giant pair of pan... OK, never mind on that!

[Graham]

Well if Alto had offered her that piece of paper to write with, then what will he make his airplane with? Hmm....probably not with that giant pair of pan... OK, never mind on that!

They might be useful as a parachute though!

Graham

[Sorata]

Shinsen-sub of ep 5 is up

[eugimon]

wow, they're really on it. They just released ep 4....

[Hikuro]

yeah, no kiddin, AiA must be having some problems if Shinsen just beat 'em.

[Wes]

haha. sheryl is writing on a giant panty. a GIANT PANTY! if you were alto, would you give her paper? hell no!

The woman that can fill up those panties had better be 40ft tall.

[darkrealmbahamut]

Well at least someone got it out. Every time I DL the Gattai the audio is off and I never had that problem til this release.

[VFTF1]

Just watched episode 5. I have put my thoughts down in the color white - so just highlight them if you want to see them -I did this not to break the spoiler rule ...

I LOVE this episode because it is totally focused on exploring the culture of Macross Frontier, and all of the "fighting" takes a back seat.

My favorite part is the Zendradi farmers and the Zendradi shopping mall I'm also thrilled about how it seems that the Zendradi have a habit of singing - I know it happens in Earth culture as well, with people singing on subways and what not, but it just seems to be presented as a more venerable tradition in Zendradi enclaves.

Now...Sheryl....

Ok - this episode really does boost her status; it humanizes her and makes her more understandable to me - BUT - she's still a concieted starlet who likes Alto for all the WRONG reasons.

She shouldn't be attracted to the guy just because he treat her as if she's "not Sheryl." This is a mistake starletts/these type of 'glam' women seem to make with "normal" guys all the time - normal guys treat them like they're any other girl because they have a habit of treating all people fairly and equally - but the starlett/glam woman thinks this is some kind of special treatment "just for her."

It's not - it's just Alto being Alto. Maybe that's "hard to find" - sure - but it's still not significant enough to form a lasting bond.

In addition - I don't like how sexually provocative Sheryl is. She acts like she's aging fast and needs to remind herself that she's still attractive by provoking men.

Ranka is attractive just by being Ranka - she makes your heart sink not because she draws attention to her sexuality on purpose, but because it reflects in her every, normal, day-to-day action, gesture, facial expression etc.

This is far more attractive than Sheryl's whole act.

On the whole, I feel a bit sorry for Sheryl. She's lonely. She doesn't seem to have many authentic friendships, let alone love in her life - so yes, of course a guy like Alto is a natural fit. But I wonder whether it'll last.

One things for sure though - Alto seems to have been contaminated with Hikaruitus - Hikaruitus is a particularl disease that afflicts young men, making them incapable of taking any initiative with women and therefore acting miffed by women coming on to them.

Ranka is jealous - and Alto should be really happy that a girl like Ranka would be jealous over him. Sheryl is NEVER going to be jealous; she's never going to really love a guy - it's just the way her life is...

Ranka is all heart, on the other hand. Her singing aspirations won't destroy her wonderful loving character. She's like Basara - she will remain her self no matter what. That's my bet after seeing this episode.

I mean - even the Vajra is moved by her music

vftf1

[broody]

i dont get it.. what spoiler rule?

[Isamu Starkiller]

i dont get it.. what spoiler rule?

Please read the guidelines posted on the first page of each episode thread.

[Westlo]

It's not - it's just Alto being Alto. Maybe that's "hard to find" - sure - but it's still not significant enough to form a lasting bond.

vftf1

They're actually pretty similar people, ignore the sexual tension, ignore the you treat me normally part the biggest bond in this episode is the why do we fly/sing part. They have a very similar outlook on things, see how Alto's words ("I could never leave my destiny in the hands of another!") in episode 3 were similar to Sheryl's ("Destiny is something you take ahold of!") in the bunker.

It's just that Sheryl's where she wants to be already while Alto is on the way there. Next episode should increase their bond on multiple fronts.... and yes I agree that Sheryl is lonely and probably has no real friends aside from maybe Grace who can't act like her friend all the time since she's her manager as well. She's completely devoted herself to her work which is why she's in the position she at currently in the series, her drive/passion for music is massive.

[VFTF1]

It would be sad if you're right that Alto and Sheryl are that similar to one another.... but you do have a point. It's just that Ranka has a far humbler path.

I guess I'm just a sentimental sap...

Also - in my opinion - Ranka batted out a song that was the best thing I've heard since Submarine Street!

I mean - seriously - her song was great! I hope they draft the guys who were giving her backup music

Am I wrong to assume that there seems to be a Mylene/Basara tension developing between Sheryl/Ranka? Not an exact one (Basara was always pretty hard on Mylene, while Sheryl seems to encourage Ranka), but in the sense that we have a honed artist and a younger up-and-coming artist? Just a slight similarity - not exact....

VFTF1

[Isamu Starkiller]

VFTF-1 I mostly agree with what you posted, I also think Ranka symbolizes a missing aspect of Sheryl and vice versa. I also think we may see a reversal in inspiration soon, Ranka is inspired by Sheryl but I think Once Ranka's songs start becoming more "popular" (for lack of a better word) Sheryl will begin to sing more from the heart and less "pop"....that's just a hunch.

[Graham]

Please read the guidelines posted on the first page of each episode thread.

But the spolier rule only applies for 24 hours after the episode aired. It's already nearly a week since it aired, so you don't need to bother with spoiler tags or putting your text in white......really!

Graham

[UN Spacy]

Has AiA stopped fansubbing?

They've NEVER taken this long.

[farmer_yohei]

So I was bored and I rewatched episode 4 and saw something I don't know if anyone has pointed out. So the guy who says "deculture" in episode 5 (the one every says will become Ranka's manager), he is sitting behind Alto in the Miss Macross pageant with a huge grin on his face when he sees Ranka.

Thats it. Not important, but I saw him and thought it was cool. Like looking for the creature in Lost.

[darkrealmbahamut]

Ranka and Sheryl are two haves of one whole. The Vajra definately want the Ranka half of this coin more though. I have to say I like how they made Sheryl shellshocked so to speak about all the green it broke down that hard outshell we have seen so far.

[Westlo]

It would be sad if you're right that Alto and Sheryl are that similar to one another.... but you do have a point. It's just that Ranka has a far humbler path.

VFTF1

How do you know that Ranka had a humbler path than Sheryl? Did you see how Sheryl made herself into what she is today? I'll say more but I'll be going into spoilers... also what's stopping Ranka from being like Sheryl in 2 years time (she's 15 to Sheryls 17) or worse turn into a diva like Minmei?

Edited May 8, 2008 by Westlo

[DJ Loe Kee]

shinsen subs ep. 5 is out. and i haven't even watched ep. 4 yet... now i can watch 2 episodes back to back.

[Kronnang Dunn]

How do you know that Ranka had a humbler path than Sheryl? Did you see how Sheryl made herself into what she is today? I'll say more but I'll be going into spoilers... also what's stopping Ranka from being like Sheryl in 2 years time (she's 15 to Sheryls 17) or worse turn into a diva like Minmei?

¿? I thought the diva was Sheryl...

[eugimon]

How do you know that Ranka had a humbler path than Sheryl? Did you see how Sheryl made herself into what she is today? I'll say more but I'll be going into spoilers... also what's stopping Ranka from being like Sheryl in 2 years time (she's 15 to Sheryls 17) or worse turn into a diva like Minmei?

I think chances are rather good ranka will turn into a diva. Michel's comments that she's bratty/spoiled could be an insight into how fame and success will affect her.

On the other hand, sheryl was pleased with Ranka's new found confidence and that ranka was starting her career as an idol.

[Westlo]

I think this episode is a good indication of the true personalities of Sheryl and Ranka... also I bet Ranka flips out and/or goes emo this series around the 16-20 point. Take the insert song out during the end and Ranka would've had lost major points with a lot of people this episode.

¿? I thought the diva was Sheryl...

Sheryl is a diva but she's clearly more down to earth than Minmei ever was when she was a diva.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Westlo

[ComicKaze]

I mean - seriously - her song was great! I hope they draft the guys who were giving her backup music

VFTF1

Too bad they are in HER IMAGINATION

[Mr March]

This will be my 5th forum I'm posting on.. and I post on a few blogs as well.. it's not that much... *whistles* Anyway I was lured here by the 5th chapter of the manga! I would've signed up much earlier if I knew it was being translated and scanned here, I did browse this forum from time to time though.. must have missed it. And yeah the Sheryl hate on some forums was a bit OTT at first... though I guess it should be expected.. confident/arrogant females always get hated on even though they are generally more interesting. I'm glad to see this episode has changed a lot of people's opinions of her.

Well, I'm guilty too, since I recognized you from a few other forums I post at and a few where I lurk from time to time I'm glad to see you joined MW, there's plenty of good stuff here. I try to repost as much as I can on other forums to spread the Macross goodness online, but I can't always keep up.

I love Sheryl. I'm not sure where all the hate comes from. I suppose she is a more aggressive and confident woman, but it's not that. She's simply interesting, like so many of the characters in Macross Frontier. It's funny, but you don't see fans coming down on Ozuma for the awful way he treated Ranka after the Misss Macross Frontier show. Yet the smallest thing Sheryl does invites intense criticism. I think she's great and I'll take her faults as a character as the promise of good drama later on.

Anyway, Welcome to Macross World!

Edited May 8, 2008 by Mr March

[VFTF1]

It's funny, but you don't see fans coming down on Ozuma for the awful way he treated Ranka after the Misss Macross Frontier show

Not true I posted a stinging critique of Ozma for that very reason in the "favorite MF character" thread today I was also quick to criticize Ozma for punching Alto

As for Sheryl "hating" - I have been very critical of Sheryl from the start - but I sure hope I don't come across as if I hated her. I just like Ranka better. And it has nothing to do with Sheryl being successful and confident - it has more to do with Ranka being cute, fun loving and singing songs that I prefer to the stuff Sheryl sings. Also, I like Ranka's hair, and I would love for my girlfriend to work in a chinese restaurant. It would be fun.

Sheryl does indeed have many fine qualities - I don't hate her (don't hate Ozma either, who also has many fine qualities).

And just so I dish out criticism equally: I will now criticize Ranka:

The ONE major time when I was down on Ranka took place in episode 5. She says that since Ozma lied to her, then she can also "be selfish" and not talk to him, despite Ozma worrying about her.

That was really low of Ranka- and it was painful to see and hear her say such a terrible thing. Ozma kept his piloting a secret because he didn't want Ranka worried; and Ozma flies to protect Ranka - he wants to keep Ranka safe. In that sense, whatever her flaws, Ozma is a very good man and friend to Ranka and she's just being a snotty little girly-brat for saying such a mean mean thing about Ozma.

But I still love her anyways

VFTF1

[wolfx]

Ok...i love this episode. If there's only one thing i wanna complain about the Art & Animation this ep though is characters look abit different in parts of ep 4 but i'm not really complaining. The whole flow of the episode is awesome. Just how i'd imagine my date with Sheryl should be. mmmm.

WTF....Vajra has self generating missiles/ammo....has SWAG armour...and can fold independently? Woah....

I don't understand the economics of having giant zentraedi on the ship. Space and resources are limited, and we have a whole colony of Zentrans and a shopping mall. A meal to feed a zentran probably can feed 50 miclones. How does this work??

The ship at the end....kinda reminds me of VF-2SS + a variable glaug.

Ranka singing "What bout my star?" was awesome as well...Minmay poses!

[Shun]

I love Sheryl. I'm not sure where all the hate comes from. I suppose she is a more aggressive and confident woman, but it's not that. She's simply interesting, like so many of the characters in Macross Frontier. It's funny, but you don't see fans coming down on Ozuma for the awful way he treated Ranka after the Misss Macross Frontier show. Yet the smallest thing Sheryl does invites intense criticism. I think she's great and I'll take her faults as a character as the promise of good drama later on.

i might be opening a can of worms here, but i felt Minmay was like-wise getting all the hate. and i don't know why people hate her that much? i still suspect minmay-haters watched Robotech before SDF:M, and RT must've made her look so bad that the negativity is imprinted.

my first impression of Sheryl is bad too, i dislike her NOT because she is successful and knows what she wants (like some people mentioned, which IMO hints on sexism). i dislike her because she is seen as arrogant, and self-centered.

Sheryl also strongly believes in doing what she likes when she wants it (which is ok but NOT when it endangers others - when she insists on going out of that emergency pit, what if it was vacuum outside the pit? she could've killed all 3 of them), Sheryl is also a big bully esp to Alto etc etc... lots of bad traits to list.

but sheryl redeemed herself in ep 5, where we see the more 'positive' side of her. I must say i like her alot more after watching ep 5, hope to see a more likable sheryl in future episodes. however, she might be behaving slightly more likable all because of Alto... who knows how she behaves towards others

Edited May 8, 2008 by Shun

[Duke Togo]

Yeah, I think the Sheryl hate comes from months of only having the Deculture cut of episode 1. I guess we have some members who have not been able to move past that.

[VFTF1]

I don't understand the economics of having giant zentraedi on the ship. Space and resources are limited, and we have a whole colony of Zentrans and a shopping mall. A meal to feed a zentran probably can feed 50 miclones. How does this work??

That - in my opinion - is a racist sentiment. The Zendradi were grown to be that size; it is their natural state. If we accept that they are sentient beings, then they have the same natural rights to life and freedom that humans do. Humans cannot force them to become Myclones just because it might be more utilitarian to do so.

By that logic, maybe humans should therefore shrink themselves proportionally to the size of small mice?

Also - think about how much more "economical" it is when you have people the size of the Zendradi around - people who, by their very constitution - can even survive in outer-space for a short time. These guys do the same job as 100 human beings. The can build a dam in less time, they can build buildings in less time - they save time and resources and stream-line work.

The presence of one Zendradi worker relieves one hundred human beings of back breaking toil - and the Zendradi worker probably doesn't even feel the same physical exhaustion that one hundred humans would feel.

So not only is the argument immoral because it presumes that some sort of economic calculus renders the Zendradi harmful to the good of humanity, but is is even wrong on it's own merits - because the Zendradi presence is actually economically beneficial to mankind by drastically reducing the cost of labor and freeing up those resources to be used elswhere or - to be consumed on liesure time.

VFTF1

[Kelsain]

Too bad they are in HER IMAGINATION

I didn't get that implication. They had already established that people were singing at the entrance, and the first guitarist was shown to be sitting by a shop window. I'm under the assumption that they were all musicians hanging around the mall and were similarly enthralled by Ranka's singing. She was singing a well-known tune, so It's no surprise they could play along. If I was sitting around with a guitar, and some adorable little girl nearby started singing a song I knew, I'd sure as hell back her up!

On the other hand, she was standing with a microphone in hand - she had to get it from somewhere. Maybe she convinced the mall band to give here a shot at the mic.

A couple of things struck me about the Folmo Mall:

1) Do Zentraedi singers need microphones?

2) What kind of engineering goes into making 5' Pumps?

3) I missed the verbal echo, but it was nice to see KK full-sized in that sweater. Perhaps she only miclones when it's necessary to go to one of the other islands. I wonder if Pixie squadron takes a tram from that island over to the M1/4, or is the M1/4 actually based there?

4) Is it a good idea to wear skirts as a macronized Zentraedi?

5) Would it be ironic or perverted to make a set of sheets out of those panties? Both?

Edited May 8, 2008 by Kelsain

[azrael]

1) Do Zentraedi singers need microphones?

2) What kind of engineering goes into making 5' Pumps?

3) I missed the verbal echo, but it was nice to see KK full-sized in that sweater. Perhaps she only miclones when it's necessary to go to one of the other islands. I wonder if Pixie squadron takes a tram from that island over to the M1/4, or is the M1/4 actually based there?

4) Is it a good idea to wear skirts as a macronized Zentraedi?

5) Would it be ironic or perverted to make a set of sheets out of those panties? Both?

1) You will LISTEN TO THEIR SONG!

2) The same that goes into making giant panties.

...

4) When most people around you are that size...what's the problem.

5) Depends on who's makin them...

[Kelsain]

1) You will LISTEN TO THEIR SONG!

4) When most people around you are that size...what's the problem.

But there were normal size people there. Maybe they're only allowed on the upper levels (also avoids trampling lawsuits...)

I like Klein Klan, she's easy on the eyes and those legs go AAAAAAAAALLLL the way up

Edited May 8, 2008 by Kelsain

[Project Phoenix]

1) Do Zentraedi singers need microphones?

2) What kind of engineering goes into making 5' Pumps?

3) I missed the verbal echo, but it was nice to see KK full-sized in that sweater. Perhaps she only miclones when it's necessary to go to one of the other islands. I wonder if Pixie squadron takes a tram from that island over to the M1/4, or is the M1/4 actually based there?

4) Is it a good idea to wear skirts as a macronized Zentraedi?

5) Would it be ironic or perverted to make a set of sheets out of those panties? Both?

Sorry, couldn't resist answering those.

1) Singing Enka? Hell Yeah! Especially when you are a hot blooded Zentradi male.

2) Super Dimensional Engineering of course!

3) No idea. The Quarter seems small so I would say it is based there.

4) Why not? Provided you remember to put on underwear.

5) Nah. Depends if you're using it as a parachute, parasail or canas for your sailboat. Could useful as window curtains I think.

[VFTF1]

I will just reiterate how much I love the Zendradi quarter and how endearing the Zendradi are...

Actually - when I think about it - I have always believed that Kawamori uses the Zendradi as an archetype for human nature writ large. They seem to be made a bit gulable to prove a point about us. In SDF M, as Misa said, they lived only for war and - as Kakizake inadvertantly intelligently observed - these kind of people would only "wanna die." But on the other hand, it was this extreme...Spartan (for lack of a better word) upbringing that made them so open to music and deculture.

After all - look how the humans reacted to Sara Nome and her songs in Macross Zero. Humans "believe only what their eyes tell them" and are always talking about "useful! useful! useful!" - this is why they do not hear the songs of the universe and their hearts are so closed to culture. The longer the Zendradi remained on Earth - Kamjin is the main example here - the more they too became cynical towards culture and suddenly viewed it as mere entertainment or something that could even be combined with more malign forms.

But, on the Frontier vessels, the Zendradi seem authentically the archetype of a utopian society. They enjoy great freedom, they seem to be happy whether they are farmers, Quid pilots, poor musicians singing at the mall - all of it is preferable to being a bio-genetically engineered weapon of warfare.

Speaking of which - perhaps SOMEBODY figured that the flaw in their initial bio-genetic weapons was that the weapons had far too big a ...braaain..... although apparently even the smallest of brains are sensitive...(don't want to spoil so remaining vague here:) )

Anyways - point is - in Macross Frontier the Zendradi seem to be illustrative of what the perfect human society would look like ...and their perfection is contrasted with human imperfections...

I like that - I like how the Zendradi retain a kind of naivete which allows them to be better than those who are knowledgable (but not wise) --

Also - the farmers reminded me of that one episode in Macross 7 with...what was his name?....Billy? Bobby? The farmer boy who was a Basara fan but lived on Sun-Flower Island and had to take care of his farm?

VFTF1