Macross Frontier Episode 5 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[darkrealmbahamut]

I don't get why we are so hard on the animation. There are some moments where details slip but they are minor. As many others have said you can't compare Zeros animation since it was an OVA.

[Graham]

Actually, for background animation, I'd say Frontier is even superior to Zero.

Graham

[wolfx]

Again, just my personal opinion here, but I find the animation in Frontier, both cell and CG do be far supperior to Gundam 00 by several orders of magnitude.

And don't even get me started on that steaming pile of crap that is Votoms The Pailsen Files (and this coming from a hardcore Votoms fan). So disappointing.

Since starting watching Frontier, every other anime I've tried to watch looks bad in comparison.

I'm in 7th heaven with this show and loving every aspect of it.

Graham

You're just Froting Headed.

You're also Yamato-ed.

I don't get why we are so hard on the animation. There are some moments where details slip but they are minor. As many others have said you can't compare Zeros animation since it was an OVA.

More like the problem is no one here is hard on it. It might look fine now but this trend is worrying if it degenerates into maybe Ranka missing one earflap or something worse later on. And no one is comparing Zero to Frontier? We were comparing it to other shows recently like Code Geass and 00 but somehow someone mentioned its apples and oranges. Eh? They are both anime so they both should be apples.

[Hikuro]

Bah....you guys....objectivity is lost on you. You guys have been Froating Headed (anime equivalent to something like Yamato-ed).

Anyway, i'll only say for sure after i seen the AiA subs.

I think someones spoiled maybe?

[Duke Togo]

I don't get why we are so hard on the animation. There are some moments where details slip but they are minor. As many others have said you can't compare Zeros animation since it was an OVA.

I compare it to several series I've watched in the past year, year and a half, and its average, at best. However, this doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the series at all. I love it. I guess I just expected a series with the name Macross on it to have higher production values than Frontier does. Granted, the CG work is very good, and as Graham pointed out, the backgrounds are excellent.

[Vegas]

macross frontier animation is ok. i think its on par with the current animes like code geass and etc. cant really complain. im just so happy theres a new series.

[Mr March]

Again, just my personal opinion here, but I find the animation in Frontier, both cell and CG do be far supperior to Gundam 00 by several orders of magnitude.

I'm lost on the criticism as well. Macross Frontier has so far been a rare treat in both cel and CG animation. As a complete package and as an anime television series, this is probably one of, if not THE, most visually impressive anime television series I've ever seen. Better still, I find Macross Frontier the first anime with CG elements that look better than the cel shaded CG effects of shows like Ghost in the Shell: SAC (which previously was my preferred method of anime CG work). The character animation and CG work is flawlessly integrated, both in style and the way the CG appears photo realistic yet cartoon-like at the same time

I’d love to know the exact limitations of fold technology in the Macross universe, for large ships, i.e. maximum length of fold and also recharge time between folds.

We know from Macross Plus that the prototype external Fold Booster was certified for a 1-way fold of up to 20 light years.

This is a good question. The fold booster provide a good small-scale range, but I'd be curious about the larger ships as well. Perhaps fold are only limited by the power of the reaction engine. This seems to be the case in many aspects of OverTechnology. In the case of the Vajra, they can fire anti-ship weapons and fold on their own running on just the internal reactor.

Edited May 7, 2008 by Mr March

[Elektrix]

Something funny just occurred to me about this episode; Sheryl is sitting there writing on a giant pair of Zentraedi panties because she needed something to write on...... and then we see Alto making another one of his paper airplanes....

[darkrealmbahamut]

I am just saying we are sweating the small stuff there hasn't been massive recycling of action scenes which they could have easily done to save money. I was just using Zero as an example that I have seen thrown around several pages earlier.

[raymond]

Just watched the episode for the upteenth time. Damn, waiting for the next one is just killing me!

Quick question, anyone notice that "Shelley" thing? What's up with that? Is that another name for Sheryl? A brand of lipstick?

[dreamweaver13]

Something funny just occurred to me about this episode; Sheryl is sitting there writing on a giant pair of Zentraedi panties because she needed something to write on...... and then we see Alto making another one of his paper airplanes....

haha. sheryl is writing on a giant panty. a GIANT PANTY! if you were alto, would you give her paper? hell no!

[azrael]

Quick question, anyone notice that "Shelley" thing? What's up with that? Is that another name for Sheryl? A brand of lipstick?

Lipstick, make-up...Sheryl is a 2059-equivalent of a Revlon girl.

[Hikuro]

Again, Shelley, Sheryl, ffffffrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeench.

[JB0]

This is a good question. The fold booster provide a good small-scale range, but I'd be curious about the larger ships as well. Perhaps fold are only limited by the power of the reaction engine. This seems to be the case in many aspects of OverTechnology. In the case of the Vajra, they can fire anti-ship weapons and fold on their own running on just the internal reactor.

It wasn't really clear if they were worn out or just being pushed to the limit, but folding the factory satellite to Earth from... wherever it was... stressed the fold generators pretty hard, based on the chatter on the bridge.

That's really the only established upper limit that I know of.

[darkrealmbahamut]

Lipstick, make-up...Sheryl is a 2059-equivalent of a Revlon girl.

So are we going to see Macross's Next Top Model? Have Sheryl saying to Ranka "You have to take even more fierce photos if you want to be the next top model."

[Gubaba]

I have not watched it cuz AiA still hasn't released theirs....sigh. But reading reviews online, my worse fears came true. Seems the art and animation has dropped even more in ep 5. And some were even obvious from screenshots taken from said reviews.

Hopefully they buck up when the important stuff starts happening.

The art and animation have been consistently average to sub-par since episode 1. It hasn't gotten worse.

Here's a solution: Immediately before watching the latest episode of MF, watch Virigin Road again. The contrast should be stunning!

Actually, I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter how good or bad the animation is, as long as the story is compelling. If the story is good enough, Macross Frontier could be a sock puppet show and I'd still watch it.

That said, I still think the designs and the animation kick serious tail...but then, I don't watch too much new anime.

[jenius]

I liked this episode much more than the 4th one. We've seen dates in Macross before but I definitely wasn't getting a rehash vibe from any of it. The vibrating scene was a bit much at first but after that it was a fun exploration and character development tool. One thing I don't get, they always do such a good job of showing the women and their crushes but how come the men never seem to like anyone? All the men ever seem to do is get startled or embarrassed. I imagine they just treat things that way because the boys are supposed to be young and awkward while the women are already more mature at that age (uh, I only mean sexually aware by mature)?

[eugimon]

I liked this episode much more than the 4th one. We've seen dates in Macross before but I definitely wasn't getting a rehash vibe from any of it. The vibrating scene was a bit much at first but after that it was a fun exploration and character development tool. One thing I don't get, they always do such a good job of showing the women and their crushes but how come the men never seem to like anyone? All the men ever seem to do is get startled or embarrassed. I imagine they just treat things that way because the boys are supposed to be young and awkward while the women are already more mature at that age (uh, I only mean sexually aware by mature)?

This is a cultural thing that doesn't translate very well. Japanese culture is *very* prohibitive against showing PDA... for instance, there was a time when a bunch of Japanese nationals were held hostage for a month, they were released and there was a big celebration at the airport and their family members were all there. As the men disembarked, they would bow to their families and walk off, no running up and hugging or kisses, just a respectful formal bow. So when sheryl or some girl goes in for a kiss in anime... well, that's a big startling thing for the receiving party.

[mike_s_6]

I liked this episode much more than the 4th one. We've seen dates in Macross before but I definitely wasn't getting a rehash vibe from any of it. The vibrating scene was a bit much at first but after that it was a fun exploration and character development tool. One thing I don't get, they always do such a good job of showing the women and their crushes but how come the men never seem to like anyone? All the men ever seem to do is get startled or embarrassed. I imagine they just treat things that way because the boys are supposed to be young and awkward while the women are already more mature at that age (uh, I only mean sexually aware by mature)?

Perhaps because Alto just doesn't like anyone just yet, although he seemed a bit different by the end of episode 5. The two girls in the locker did say that Michel was dating older women, and Alto just doesn't seem to be interested in anyone at the moment. Perhaps Ranka or Sheryl will change that, who knows?

[Graham]

Something funny just occurred to me about this episode; Sheryl is sitting there writing on a giant pair of Zentraedi panties because she needed something to write on...... and then we see Alto making another one of his paper airplanes....

It was just a spur of the moment thing for Sheryl. She didn't think to ask Alto if he had any paper on him, she just grabbed the first thing she saw that she could write on.

Or maybe she's just a kinky that way and likes writting on giant panties! ;D

Graham

[Gubaba]

It was just a spur of the moment thing for Sheryl. She didn't think to ask Alto if he had any paper on him, she just grabbed the first thing she saw that she could write on.

Or maybe she's just a kinky that way and likes writting on giant panties! ;D

Graham

It makes a lot of sense...if she ever needs quick cash, I think a song written on Zentradi panties would sell for a higher price on Ebay than one written on paper.

[wolfx]

I think someones spoiled maybe?

If by spoiled you mean acquired a critical sense of taste like a wine connoiseur yeah. Not denying it.

I'm not saying its the end of the world for MF to have detiorating art/animation when most ppl think its minor, but....gah. What do i know. I'm just a nerdy overcritical otaku.

[dreamweaver13]

Or maybe she's just a kinky that way and likes writting on giant panties! ;D

Graham

imagine what her underwear drawer looks like.

[Tobi54]

Bah, most of us are praising the animation in ep 5 as being the best and most consistent yet.

Graham

I agree, if you check my previous posts I have been very vocal about some of the inconsistency of the quality regarding the cell animation in episodes post 1 and 2, with number 4 being the most obvious, but episode 5 went back to being just as good if not better than both EP1 and EP2. I don't really see any merit in complaining about the animation in EP5, if anything, it has brought the series back to the same high standard it started out with.

[Tobi54]

I compare it to several series I've watched in the past year, year and a half, and its average, at best. However, this doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the series at all. I love it. I guess I just expected a series with the name Macross on it to have higher production values than Frontier does. Granted, the CG work is very good, and as Graham pointed out, the backgrounds are excellent.

Question, which shows would these be? just curious.

One thing to keep in mind is budget, I seriously doubt any of these shows had to balance intricate CGI work and Cell animation like Frontier does, Satelight is doing pulling off a very good juggling act between the two, and of course that comes at a price.

I've had my problems with some of the cell stuff in previous episodes, I can understand where those problems come from, but I still think Frontier's production values are top notch, specially for a TV series, I'd like someone to point out which show looks to have higher production values than Frontier, not just the cell, but the whole package, including CGI work, animation and music. I know I don't watch as much anime as other people here, so I'd like to know what I've been missing out on.

Edited May 7, 2008 by Tobi54

[Realist_Classic]

Question, which shows would these be? just curious.

One thing to keep in mind is budget, I seriously doubt any of these shows had to balance intricate CGI work and Cell animation like Frontier does, Satelight is doing pulling off a very good juggling act between the two, and of course that comes at a price.

I've had my problems with some of the cell stuff in previous episodes, I can understand where those problems come from, but I still think Frontier's production values are top notch, specially for a TV series, I'd like someone to point out which show looks to have higher production values than Frontier, not just the cell, but the whole package, including CGI work, animation and music. I know I don't watch as much anime as other people here, so I'd like to know what I've been missing out on.

I have no idea what the per episode production costs for Frontier is, but I think it should be on par with Cowboy Bebop (per episode @¥20 million*) and Escaflowne (per episode @¥30 million*).

*According to ANN

Edit: Ack, I just re-read your post and of course, none of them came from last year. But maybe someone else will have better info.

Edited May 7, 2008 by Realist_Classic

[Einhander1251]

heh in this pic thats how it really looks like in San Fran Chinatown they changed and removed a couple things though

So wait. I noticed the obvious Golden Gate bridge. Does that mean the white tower base at the top of that shot is the Bay bridge? I haven't seen it from any of the wide angle shots. I swear I can sometimes see the vague outline of the tri-tower tv antenna over where Mt Sutro should be. That could just be my imagination though.

Doing some investigation I am going to say yes. compare if you will. . . .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pbo31/2298400...57594056920717/

Edited May 7, 2008 by Einhander1251

[Garou Kuroryuu]

So wait. I noticed the obvious Golden Gate bridge. Does that mean the white tower base at the top of that shot is the Bay bridge? I haven't seen it from any of the wide angle shots. I swear I can sometimes see the vague outline of the tri-tower tv antenna over where Mt Sutro should be. That could just be my imagination though.

Doing some investigation I am going to say yes. compare if you will. . . .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pbo31/2298400...57594056920717/

You can actually see a "Powel" street sign in there. Most surely a nod to Powell street, basically in the middle of Chinatown, and one from where you can get a view pretty much like what is pictured here.

PD: Actually, the pictured corner could be very well either Jackson & Powell or Pacifica & Powell.

Edited May 7, 2008 by Garou Kuroryuu

[MisaForever]

I have had no problem with any of the animation, I don't know what you guys are getting your panties in a wad about. (yes, that was intentional)

[Mr March]

JB0

That's not bad, but then I suppose the question becomes was the factory satellite stretched to the limit because of the limitations of the fold system or because the system has suffered so much damage from Supervision Army attacks for hundreds of thousands of years.

MisaForever

Very punny

[Einhander1251]

You can actually see a "Powel" street sign in there. Most surely a nod to Powell street, basically in the middle of Chinatown, and one from where you can get a view pretty much like what is pictured here.

PD: Actually, the pictured corner could be very well either Jackson & Powell or Pacifica & Powell.

I got it nailed. Its powell and jackson. W00t for having no life and cross referencing minute details!

[Tsuchiro]

You can actually see a "Powel" street sign in there. Most surely a nod to Powell street, basically in the middle of Chinatown, and one from where you can get a view pretty much like what is pictured here.

PD: Actually, the pictured corner could be very well either Jackson & Powell or Pacifica & Powell.

its jackson and powell

lol i got to go to chinatown tomorrow i should take a pic of the original

Edited May 7, 2008 by Tsuchiro

[MisaForever]

its jackson and powell

lol i got to go to chinatown tomorrow i should take a pic of the original

You GOT to go to Chinatown TOMORROW? Didn't anyone teach you English?

[Repiv_Onex]

I got it nailed. Its powell and jackson. W00t for having no life and cross referencing minute details!

Welcome aboard~

...Actually I wanted to say nice nick dude, definitely one of the best shooter game ever.

*hides from OT

btw the Cover Art for the Bluray really looks weird to me, like whoever mentioned it eariler, it seems to be drawn by different person.

*ok feels better now, not totally OT at least

[Westlo]

I compare it to several series I've watched in the past year, year and a half, and its average, at best. However, this doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the series at all. I love it. I guess I just expected a series with the name Macross on it to have higher production values than Frontier does. Granted, the CG work is very good, and as Graham pointed out, the backgrounds are excellent.

If Frontier is average name these numerous shows that are better.. I better not read Code Geass (so much panning) or Gundam 00 (character animation is average) in your response... better be stuff like Seirei No Moribito and Dennu Coil.... Also why do people think episode 4 had bad animation? The movement (you know actual animation!) of the characters in that episode was actually pretty good it just had inconsistent character designs which seems to be a trademark of Studio Satelight, see Noein. Noein episode 12 has inconsistent character designs... but it's one of the most impressive animated tv episodes I've seen period.. that dock battle sequence is amazing.

Below average is stuff like Golgo 13 and To Love Ru, average is something like Amatsuki and Wagaya no Oinari-sama, Macross Frontier is nowhere near average, anyone who thinks so needs to relearn what animation is in addition to being able to put things into perspective since if Frontier is average the only show that's above average this season is Soul Eater.

Edited May 7, 2008 by Westlo