Macross Frontier and Fansubs

[Eaglearcher]

Really? So many people like AiA? When I first saw the fonts they use, I went back to [gg].

[Sulendil Ang]

Really? So many people like AiA? When I first saw the fonts they use, I went back to [gg].

Well, not everyone can play mkv files normally with their computer...

[DestroidDefender]

Well, not everyone can play mkv files normally with their computer...

All the codec/players you need to watch MKV are free and easy to find. I can watch them on my PC and my Mac. But I understand all the different standards and formats can make it more trouble than it's worth. But if you do find a way to play MKV there are hundreds of anime downloads you can view including the remastered Macross 7, DYRL, & Macross +.

I just spent about a day trying to find an MKV to MP4 convert that actually worked so I can stream the videos to my PS3.

[MisaForever]

All the codec/players you need to watch MKV are free and easy to find. I can watch them on my PC and my Mac. But I understand all the different standards and formats can make it more trouble than it's worth. But if you do find a way to play MKV there are hundreds of anime downloads you can view including the remastered Macross 7, DYRL, & Macross +.

I just spent about a day trying to find an MKV to MP4 convert that actually worked so I can stream the videos to my PS3.

Well, from personal experience, older systems have a hell of a time playing MKV files. I don't prefer them myself, standard AVI or MP4 for me

[DestroidDefender]

Well, from personal experience, older systems have a hell of a time playing MKV files. I don't prefer them myself, standard AVI or MP4 for me

I understand completely KlanForever, I mean MisaForever. I don't prefer them but the fansubbers seem to find them the easiest format to produce.

[mikeszekely]

Fansubbers seem to like mkv because it's a good container for softsubs.

That said, I prefer standards, and dare I say it, hardsubs. It's a video file, not a DVD. If I want to watch it without subs to "appreciate the art" (that we complain is poor/inconsistent anyway), the raws are out there. If it's an mkv, I can play it on my computers, but not with the media player I want to use (and while being told that the player I want to use sucks just because it doesn't like softsubs that I wish were hardsubs in the first place). If it's an mp4, I can play it on my computers or my PS3 (or possibly my iPod). But I still like good ol' avi, because it plays on damn near everything, including two DVD players I own.

I wish that mkv (as well as wma, wmv, mov, rm, and ogg) would go the way of ATRAC already.

[Batou]

I dug the AiA versions because they translated so very nicely to dvd with Nero. The visual quality was just a few hairs better than Shinsen's, which showed some mild hints at compression when viewed on the big screen for me. AiA's were very sharp and crisp, and looked just about like an original dvd transfer until you get very very close.

Well crap. I'm very sad to hear they've dropped this, but as long as Shinsen is around I guess we'll survive.

[Graham]

Sad that AiA dropped Frontier. Shinsen is good, but I'd like it if they were a bit faster.

My computer is only a couple of years old and had no problem playing Gattai's .MKV files, but for some reason chokes on gg's .MKV.

Graham

[cobywan]

I've had great luck rendering out the MKV files with ALL2AVI. It's free and it works quite well. I've only been using it two days though. I'm just glad to have found a one step process.

[azrael]

Sad that AiA dropped Frontier. Shinsen is good, but I'd like it if they were a bit faster.

My computer is only a couple of years old and had no problem playing Gattai's .MKV files, but for some reason chokes on gg's .MKV.

[AiA] didn't exactly drop it. The translator Shouta, is unfortunately going to be away for the summer and will not be able to work on it. [AiA] may pick it up, but it will be done without Shouta.

[Shouta]

Technically, I'm moving to Japan for several years. I got a job there and I'll be there for at least a year if not a few.

I can probably continue my subbing when I get over there, it's just that MacF falls into a bad time with AiA's lead guy on vacation right now and then going to Europe himself in Sept for vacation. I could probably complete scripts still but it'd be useless effort if we're still playing catch-up and he goes on vacation again.

Dunno what AiA is going to do, I haven't talked to him about it since we stopped. My next sub project (Birdy the Mighty) is still going to go as planned because I'm doing it alone/duo with someone else and that's a lot more flexible.

[Eaglearcher]

http://www.any-video-converter.com/products/for_video_free/

Try Any-video-converter, it is basically a GOD of converter, will convert anyfile to mp4, I used it for putting MKV into my IPOD. It's free.

[grss1982]

BTW, looks like we have a new kid in the block in the form of Kei.

A Big THANK YOU to the people of Kei.

I've watched there fansub of Episosde 13 and it seems OK. Well there was the occasional F-bombs though.

How about other MWers? Thoughts on Kei?

Edited July 5, 2008 by grss1982

[stray]

I just gotta say, thank you to whoever Kei is for putting subs for episode 13 out before the long weekend. I don't think I would have made it otherwise *twitch*

BTW, looks like we have a new kid in the block in the form of Kei.

edit: I think it's from former members of Chihiro... ragequit lulz and all that jazz.

Edited July 5, 2008 by stray

[Gubaba]

BTW, looks like we have a new kid in the block in the form of Kei.

A Big THANK YOU to the people of Kei.

I've watched there fansub of Episosde 13 and it seems OK. Well there was the occasional F-bombs though.

How about other MWers? Thoughts on Kei?

It was all right...a few small things I would've done differently, but nothing major.

The biggest trouble I've noticed with fansubbers is that they rarely seem to realy get inside the heads of the characters and find a way for them to communicate their personalities through the dialogue. But since most of them seem to trying for word-for-word accuracy, I suppose that's impossible...

[NoNameSt11]

For playing MKVs just download the CCCP. It plays just about everything besides real media, and who encodes for that anyway.

And for people having problems with playing files, most fansubs release a high quality and lower quality version now as well.

[darkrealmbahamut]

Sad that AiA dropped Frontier. Shinsen is good, but I'd like it if they were a bit faster.

My computer is only a couple of years old and had no problem playing Gattai's .MKV files, but for some reason chokes on gg's .MKV.

Graham

On their site I read that they may be changing Timers so their speed might increase. It is definately upsetting cause AiA was really good and played on my PS3.

[Freelancer]

OMG all these FunSubbers has been giving me a headache !!! I download only high rez mkvs (1280x720) and ever since Gattai dropped out i cant find myself.....been watching Chihiro for a while.....cant decide what to download ........CAN ANY1 PLS HELP ME DECIDE !!!.......whats best subbers in your opinion (only mkvs 1280x720 ) ??

[VF-25 Messiah]

So, I was bored and with way too much time on my hands, so I decided to subtitle episode 13 of frontier myself just for the heck of it...

...

No, really.

Anyway, I've gone through the episode and timed down all lines and translated them (with a few, hard to hear ones still remaining as question marks though I intend to get to them, as well requiring heavy editing to make the dialouge more streamlined and what not). Anyhow reading this thread I realize most subbing groups must have several people working for them on each release (they're reffered to groups after all) instead of having one person doing everything.

Not really sure where I'm going with this, but I guess I'm wondering if someone else is bored and with way too much time on their hands, and perhaps interested in giving a hand in editing? (or 'proofing' or something)...

Reason I'm asking here and not in some anime subbing community is because I'm not really interested in being drafted into subbing any other shows, I plan to do only frontier. (And maybe stuff like All that VF, if at all that has spoken lines in it and comes without subs)... Anyway, I've never really subbed anything before, nor have I watched a subbed episode of frontier yet). I think someone made a comment about one group or whatnot, that while being speedy, didn't really take their time to 'get into the heads of the characters', and what people would better for this than those who, live, breathe and dream about Macross

I guess what I would be aiming for would be speedy, but well done .ass scripts of the episodes as they come out; I've no ability to obtain raws on my own, and don't know how to make mkv files and the like... (But maybe someone does?) uhm... anyway, I guess that's it

What say you?

[Eaglearcher]

I trust that you people have seen this. Very well made analysis of fansubbing.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I trust that you people have seen this. Very well made analysis of fansubbing.

Oh I have I have!

It's the one where the author proceeds to show case after vase of the more horrifying examples of fansubbing

the internet has to offer these days, right? While I more or less agree with everything he says, you could claim he's

painting a bit of a skewed picture, since he seems to use the only the worst examples out there. (Then again, its been

more than a year since I watched anything fansubbed, is everything this bad nowadays?) Anyway, the video itself

becomes pure comedy in itself because of all the absurd examples. Highly entertaining watch.

EDITED for grammar & stuff.

Edited July 5, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[creamyhorror]

The biggest trouble I've noticed with fansubbers is that they rarely seem to realy get inside the heads of the characters and find a way for them to communicate their personalities through the dialogue. But since most of them seem to trying for word-for-word accuracy, I suppose that's impossible...

What sort of conveying of personality are you referring to? I like to think I do what I can in my translations, but maybe you have some particular suggestions or examples?

[stray]

I think what the fansubs need (as well as any future dubbing of Frontier) is a repetition of Ranka, or maybe even Sheryl saying "Oh, Alto(kun)!!!" at least 11 times an episode. Even if it's not in the dialog.

I kid, I kid. As long as the context is there I'm happy, but sometimes I have to question the choice of wording some fansubbers use.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I think what the fansubs need (as well as any future dubbing of Frontier) is a repetition of Ranka, or maybe even Sheryl saying "Oh, Alto(kun)!!!" at least 11 times an episode. Even if it's not in the dialog.

I kid, I kid. As long as the context is there I'm happy, but sometimes I have to question the choice of wording some fansubbers use.

After having made a script of episode 13, the number of times Ranka says Alto's name (and vice versa, I might add) as a single word line really does seem to reach that number

[Freelancer]

Watched that video and must agree that there is a lot of truth in there........fansubing is getting a little "sloppy".....maybe because everyone is starting to do it ......

[stray]

After having made a script of episode 13, the number of times Ranka says Alto's name (and vice versa, I might add) as a single word line really does seem to reach that number

...you know, at one point I honestly wondered if they were spoofing Robotech to some degree with that... although I just kind of brushed it off in the end.

It helps that in episode 13 Ranka is talking to Alto in the 3rd person though. I still think the subtitle should read "Oh, Alto!!" for every time she said Alto-kun there though.

That video is comedy though, although I think it's a stretch to apply it to that many fansubbers. TBH, aside from the glittery graphics, I think the Animeone Aquarion (which they pull examples from) was better than the Funimation DVD release. I'm still learning Japanese, but I am fluent in Spanish and have seen professional TL's just take too many liberties to where it makes sense in English but doesn't really do justice to the original wording.

on that note, I should go back to the Japanese books.

[Gubaba]

What sort of conveying of personality are you referring to? I like to think I do what I can in my translations, but maybe you have some particular suggestions or examples?

Not really any specifc examples that I kept track of. Just sometimes, I notice a line that seems hyper-literal, and no longer sounds like the character. I know it's hard to make difficult Japanese into readable English AND keep in character while doing so...for an example of THAT, check my "Nyan Fro" liner notes translation. If you compare it to the Japanese, I made Carmen sound a little ditzier in English, because I think that was the effect they were going for, but Elmo had all the difficult lines, and sometimes he sounds too stiff and...un-Elmo-like.

But then, I was trying to do it fast; my next pass at it will, I hope, be much more successful.

[VF-25 Messiah]

...you know, at one point I honestly wondered if they were spoofing Robotech to some degree with that... although I just kind of brushed it off in the end.

It helps that in episode 13 Ranka is talking to Alto in the 3rd person though. I still think the subtitle should read "Oh, Alto!!" for every time she said Alto-kun there though.

That video is comedy though, although I think it's a stretch to apply it to that many fansubbers. TBH, aside from the glittery graphics, I think the Animeone Aquarion (which they pull examples from) was better than the Funimation DVD release. I'm still learning Japanese, but I am fluent in Spanish and have seen professional TL's just take too many liberties to where it makes sense in English but doesn't really do justice to the original wording.

on that note, I should go back to the Japanese books.

Oh, like I said, the video is hilarious but does paint what I think is a rather skewered picture of the fansubbing situation as a whole. And while the Aquarion release might have been in pretty good quality otherwise, I just couldn't get over the fact that there were at times as many as 4 different lines of text covering the screen at the same time (Whenever the main theme played, which seemed to happen every episode; 1 line for karaoke in romaji, 1 line for the karaoke in kana, 1 line for actually translating the song, and 1 line for any spoken dialouge going on in the scene)

I shudder at the thought of something like that being done to frontier, which features many song heavy episodes

[transfan52]

Oh, like I said, the video is hilarious but does paint what I think is a rather skewered picture of the fansubbing situation as a whole. And while the Aquarion release might have been in pretty good quality otherwise, I just couldn't get over the fact that there were at times as many as 4 different lines of text covering the screen at the same time (Whenever the main theme played, which seemed to happen every episode; 1 line for karaoke in romaji, 1 line for the karaoke in kana, 1 line for actually translating the song, and 1 line for any spoken dialouge going on in the scene)

I shudder at the thought of something like that being done to frontier, which features many song heavy episodes

As long as the background music lyrics are shown in on another part of the screen while the speech from the actual characters of the show is put on the spotlight I think its fine. Ive only seen the lunar anime fansubs for macross F and while there are alot of parts where music is playing while there is an important story part they seem to do a pretty good job at placing the subtitles and highlighting the important words where nothing gets in the way.

I dont really trust other fansubs of macross F at the moment, id rather wait a week or two for a quality sub than get a rushed sub of the latest episode out there only to have it appear out of context compared to what im used to.

[Gubaba]

Thanks for the link, eagelarcher! Very interesting...

I have to disagree with one thing, though...I don't mind the use of "-san," "-chan," "-kun," "-sama" and the like if the show is set in Japan. I wouldn't mind, for example, if they used the honorifics in the parts of Escaflowne set on earth. Once they get to Gaia, though, they should be dropped.

Needless to say, for something like Macross, they have no place, since it's unclear if any of the characters (besides Ranka) are meant to be speaking Japanese.

Karaoke song-titles seem to do little more than slow subbers down. I thought Manga Ent. had the right idea with Macross Plus: translate "Voices" (as regular subtitles), and leave the Sharon songs alone, since they weren't even in Japanese.

Cultural and informational notes should be left in text files, as the guy suggests...with the Deculture Edition, did we really need to be told that "Fold Sickness" is like motion sickness with a space fold...? At best, it's interesting but not essential. At worst, it's insulting ("Dammit, I'm a big Macross fan...I know what a fold is, thank you very much").

Even Central Anime's otherwise great subs for Macross 7 are marred by the use of so many different colors, each with a different meaning that has to be puzzled out by the viewer...it's a distraction, and an unnecessary one. Do you we really need to font color to tell us that someone is speaking over a radio and not in person?

So yes, I think subs should be as invisible as possible. Save the flashy stuff AMVs or something.

[transfan52]

I see what you mean gubaba but I do enjoy the extra cultural and definitve insight the subs add to any series. It gives you a better idea of what characters are talking about or refering to. Even if it is a minor or trivial detail I think its good to know.

I cant tell you how many times mecha anime in particular refer to things that I have no idea about or go "huh?! What were they talking about?" as regards to the technical jargon in the series or they refer to some strange made up phenomenon in the series... the added details clear things up and help you better understand the small details in the series.

As much as I like these details though id rather have the latest frontier episodes come to me sooner rather than later and I would be willing to forgo any small details not explained in the subtitles if that means ill get the latest episode in a series that much sooner.

[Gubaba]

I see what you mean gubaba but I do enjoy the extra cultural and definitve insight the subs add to any series. It gives you a better idea of what characters are talking about or refering to. Even if it is a minor or trivial detail I think its good to know.

I cant tell you how many times mecha anime in particular refer to things that I have no idea about or go "huh?! What were they talking about?" as regards to the technical jargon in the series or they refer to some strange made up phenomenon in the series... the added details clear things up and help you better understand the small details in the series.

As much as I like these details though id rather have the latest frontier episodes come to me sooner rather than later and I would be willing to forgo any small details not explained in the subtitles if that means ill get the latest episode in a series that much sooner.

I appreciate it, too...just not on the screen. Animeigo made liner notes for their release of Urusei Yatsura (and Otaku no Video, and Macross...), and that seemed just fine.

Plus, sometimes the information is wrong...Shinsen Subs put a useless note in Frontier episode 3 (or was it 2?) that the song playing in Ozma's car was "Dynamite Explosion," when actually it was "Totsugeki Loveheart." C'mon! If you're going to tell me something I already know, and which is given in the end credits anyway, at least get the information RIGHT!

[VF-25 Messiah]

I appreciate it, too...just not on the screen. Animeigo made liner notes for their release of Urusei Yatsura (and Otaku no Video, and Macross...), and that seemed just fine.

Plus, sometimes the information is wrong...Shinsen Subs put a useless note in Frontier episode 3 (or was it 2?) that the song playing in Ozma's car was "Dynamite Explosion," when actually it was "Totsugeki Loveheart." C'mon! If you're going to tell me something I already know, and which is given in the end credits anyway, at least get the information RIGHT!

I agree, not on the screen! The less superimposed text on top of the artwork vying for my attention the better, I say.

Shinsen got their Fire bomber wrong? Unforgivable!

[stray]

I love Shinsen's translation of the Nyan Nyan song... "Girl! Girl! Girl! Girl!"

Out of all the groups translating Frontier I think Shinsen's the worst as far as the pop-up video goes, and aside from a couple of instances they're not bad at all.

edit: aside from f'ing up Totsugeki Love Heart which is almost unforgivable.

Edited July 7, 2008 by stray

[VF-25 Messiah]

I love Shinsen's translation of the Nyan Nyan song... "Girl! Girl! Girl! Girl!"

Well, that's basicly what it means, so they're just being accurate. The kanji for the resturant's name is 娘娘 (娘 meaning girl)

They seemed to have gone for a chinese pronounciation when naming the resturant, (it's a china resturant afterall) which is

something like Niang (at least I think, chinese aint my area) which rendered in japanese becomes something like Nyan, which

to the japanese sounds like 'meow'.