Macross Frontier Episode 4 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[jenius]

Eugimon, you're way over analyzing. Like I said, different characters going through the same events. I'm not saying Alto's motivations are the same as Hikaru's or Ranka's the same as Minmay's. They're clearly different characters with different motivations but they're going through the same motions. Sure, you can add lots of little nuance points that don't affect what's happening to the characters that's different from the originals. Alto didn't run past two trees, Hikaru did! Not making things fresh... Again, of the MAJOR plot points I listed, 77% recycled.

PS - Hikaru sortied for a patrol and stumbled into bad guys IIRC... not at all like how Alto sortied for a training mission and stumbled into bad guys.

PPS - you're right 00X, I did say the outcome is essentially the same but I'm talking about the context within the episode (this is just ep 4 chat). In the end the outcomes will definitely be vastly different as I hope this show won't be a larger homage where we see PC playing with Ranka dolls.

PPPS - I still liked the episode and I'm still a MacF fan thusfar and all I'm saying is that I hope it avoids the homages becoming so thick I feel like I know what's going to happen... like I did in this episode.

Edited May 6, 2008 by jenius

[Aegis!]

I think you guys are over-analyzing too much. If stuff like homages in MF bother you so much as to go point by point nitpicking every single similarity, then you're certainly not enjoying the show, you're just watching it for continuity-sake. Let's not forget this is the 25th anniversary series, it's not some random season gundam show, if there were no homages then there's no point in doing a series right now. Where are all those people that clamored for a SDF remake anyway? why are we getting this complains now that we're getting the best of both worlds? I myself hated the idea of a remake, but you don't see me bitc*ing about the homages. MF is a wonderful opportunity for everyone, it's an awesome new & originalTV series AND it has SDF homages !? It seems you just can't please every fanboy these days.

Bottom line. Enjoy MF for what it is, not for what you want it to be 'cause it'll never be that, you'll just ruin the experience for yourself. Don't look at the glass half empty when it's really half full. If all that MF leaves you is the bitter taste of dissatisfaction, then you really should reconsider if watching a TV series (with all its flaws and stars) is a good experience for you or if you just need to read the Compendium. Same goes for Macross Plus, Zero, Seven, DYRL, etc...

Edited May 6, 2008 by Aegis!

[treatment]

Eugimon, you're way over analyzing. Like I said, different characters going through the same events. I'm not saying Alto's motivations are the same as Hikaru's or Ranka's the same as Minmay's. They're clearly different characters with different motivations but they're going through the same motions. Sure, you can add lots of little nuance points that don't affect what's happening to the characters that's different from the originals. Alto didn't run past two trees, Hikaru did! Not making things fresh... Again, of the MAJOR plot points I listed, 77% recycled.

Only the settings are superficially similar. Ain't recycled at all even at that. I think you're just trying to convince yourself that there are these "Points" that somehow only you recognized as recycled stuff and that coz of it, MF must then be recycled stuff in your observation. Which is really completely bullshit to most everyone else who both knows the story and stuff of Macross and even to most casual macross-fans.

Don't you think most of us Macross-vets here would be criticizing MF as much as well when we actually do recognize the same things as you do and most prolly more than you actually recognized? Yet, it's the complete opposite right now. Most of us are glad and stuff there are superficial homages and that these homages are more than distinguishable enough to make Frontier really that different from SDFM-TV or even DYRL.

PS - Hikaru sortied for a patrol and stumbled into bad guys IIRC... not at all like how Alto sortied for a training mission and stumbled into bad guys.

No. Hikaru was duty-bound to be patrolling and specifically looking for bad guys. He was derelict of that duty by tuning in to the pageant that's why lolicon-3 snuck up on him.

Alto was training in a supposedly secure training grounds with the Pixie squadron, and then Vajra directly folded out to confront them. Alto was not even supposed to fight them at all since he doesn't any live ordnance with him.

Go figure.

[eugimon]

Eugimon, you're way over analyzing. Like I said, different characters going through the same events. I'm not saying Alto's motivations are the same as Hikaru's or Ranka's the same as Minmay's. They're clearly different characters with different motivations but they're going through the same motions. Sure, you can add lots of little nuance points that don't affect what's happening to the characters that's different from the originals. Alto didn't run past two trees, Hikaru did! Not making things fresh... Again, of the MAJOR plot points I listed, 77% recycled.

PS - Hikaru sortied for a patrol and stumbled into bad guys IIRC... not at all like how Alto sortied for a training mission and stumbled into bad guys.

PPS - you're right 00X, I did say the outcome is essentially the same but I'm talking about the context within the episode (this is just ep 4 chat). In the end the outcomes will definitely be vastly different as I hope this show won't be a larger homage where we see PC playing with Ranka dolls.

PPPS - I still liked the episode and I'm still a MacF fan thusfar and all I'm saying is that I hope it avoids the homages becoming so thick I feel like I know what's going to happen... like I did in this episode.

But those aren't nuanced points, they're major plot points that illustrate very real differences between the characters of SDFM and MF. How can you say that the dynamics of the relationship between the main characters is analogous to counting trees?

And you're playing it both ways. You said that Ranka inviting Alto to the pagent was a similarity with SDFM, not true Minmay told hikaru about it and he acted like a jealous tool, Alto encouraged Ranka to try and was happy for her. You also said that ranka noticing alto left was a major plot point that was similar to SDFM. When it clearly is not, Minamy didn't notice hikaru came and didn't notice when he left and it didn't affect her performance at all while Alto leaving clearly affect Ranka and her confidence.

Either those character moments are "major plot points" or they're nuanced tree counting, you can't have it both ways.

And again, you completely missed the MAJOR plot point of that sequence, introducing culture to the zentradi, not explored at all in MF.

Edited May 6, 2008 by eugimon

[chrono]

Over analyzing & over defended.

Episode 4 is about as pure homage as you can get without directly copying it as are nearly all of the episodes and even the one that aren't completely homage identical themes run through them leaving a "been there" after taste that is often slightly "wtf!". At least with the original there was an underlaying forward driving plot element. Right now it's just school-dickery with Macross elements thrown in.

But anyways I gave it 4 episodes to prove itself and it simply hasn't, so moving on...

[jenius]

Okay, you guys are right, the two episodes named Miss Macross are extremely disimilar. I don't know what I was thinking when I said it felt really predictable. I mean, who could have seen any of those major things happening?

Alright, sarcasm aside, I'm probably being overly critical. I'm sure if I rewatched it now I'd see a TON more stuff that was different from the original and I know it's not 77% recycled motions. Still, the percentage is far more than simple "homage" would lead one to believe.

Don't you think most of us Macross-vets here would be criticizing MF as much as well when we actually do recognize the same things as you do and most prolly more than you actually recognized?

Absolutely not. I think this is a good show and I think most Macross vets here agree with me. I think it's such a good show that most just find the 'homages' thusfar charming. I know no one likes to hear this but it's not like this is an unbiased Macross crowd and we're all giving the show the benefit of the doubt. I'm just hoping the show doesn't abuse that benefit and starts defining its own path more clearly. If you don't like that criticism then you should probably steer very clear of reading anything I've ever written about Macross7.

I really hope that people could occasionally criticize MacrossF in these threads instead of talking about how great it is constantly. If you disagree with my points that's fine. I'm not the first person to label this show "homage heavy" so don't think I'm alone here.

[MisaForever]

Over analyzing & over defended.

Episode 4 is about as pure homage as you can get without directly copying it as are nearly all of the episodes and even the one that aren't completely homage identical themes run through them leaving a "been there" after taste that is often slightly "wtf!". At least with the original there was an underlaying forward driving plot element. Right now it's just school-dickery with Macross elements thrown in.

But anyways I gave it 4 episodes to prove itself and it simply hasn't, so moving on...

Only 4 episodes and you're done eh? Geezzz.... ok well have fun with everything else that isn't as cool.

[eugimon]

Over analyzing & over defended.

Episode 4 is about as pure homage as you can get without directly copying it as are nearly all of the episodes and even the one that aren't completely homage identical themes run through them leaving a "been there" after taste that is often slightly "wtf!". At least with the original there was an underlaying forward driving plot element. Right now it's just school-dickery with Macross elements thrown in.

But anyways I gave it 4 episodes to prove itself and it simply hasn't, so moving on...

Why bother to post then? If you don't like it, stop reading these threads and move along. I don't understand the compunction of people who drop in a conversation just to say how much they don't care, or how they're so above it.

Anyways, people are free to criticize or praise whatever they want but if what they're saying does make sense, well, why shouldn't that invite discussion. Like the people who keep saying MF is a lolicon, PROVE IT.

Edited May 6, 2008 by eugimon

[dreamweaver13]

In fact, if anything, Miss Macross shows us just how much the show IS new. In our hearts, we all want to go back to those times when mankind was making its' first perilous journey through the stars, when a down-to-earth good looking girl from next door entered a singing contest and beat out the Holywood glam to become Miss Macross and then lived up to the hype by becoming a beacon of joy and hope to a war weary populace...

...But sadly - time marches on.

And like most great events, the Miss Macross Contest has become just another corporate commercial-thon where models and wannabe playboy bunnies conglomorate to make a mark in the vacuous world of fashion...

Episode 4, if anything, shatters our hopes for a rekindling of that nostalgic flame - it tells us that memories are just that - memories.

Wow. didn't see it this way before. But now that you said it, it feels right. Nice insight. And I guess that's why i believe that paying homage to these "memories" are not a bad thing. the memories enhance the current experience.

Yes, most of the magic plot moments have so far been lifted pretty much straight from SDF, and without them, I personally can't find many memorable and brilliant moments of storytelling in Frontier, besides Ranka not winning Miss Macross (which I think does a lot for her character), and her singing in the mall (which also does a lot for her character). And like jenius mentions, the homages are so lengthy and close plot point to plot point as to be predictable.

The reason I'm cynical and accuse Kawamori of stealing old magic and presenting it to new audiences is because he has been taking Macross in directions drastically different from the feel of SDF for quite a while, not always to great success. For him to suddenly turn about face and essentially retell key moments in SDF with slight twists makes me suspect he's doing it out of pragmatism and economy, not out of artistic brilliance. The reason he took 25 years to finally go back to what made SDF work, and when he does do so, he nearly copies entire segments scene for scene-- is why I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

And can you really homage yourself? Isn't homage generally paying respect to work that isn't yours? Otherwise, isn't it essentially recycling?

Wow, you must really hate Macross F so much. haha.

but actually, maybe the reason why you "can't find many memorable and brilliant moments of storytelling in Frontier" is because the homages are all you can see, and you start to judge all the other moments against that. And of course, old macross fans that we are, everything else would pale in comparison.

But, trying to be as unbiased by my macross memories as possible, i can remember some brilliant "non-homage" moments. and most of them are actually kick-ass amazing. the skull pilot getting crushed at the hands of the vajra, and alto getting sick when he remembered. The moment of realization that the military is not an elite defense force, but a mere sideshow (so far...). Ranka as a lone survivor of a massacre, and her nervous breakdowns everytime she remembers. the nyan nyan song. the zentraedi community/mall. klanklein turning loli when micronized (yup, misaforever, it's klanklein love!!). classmates turned wingmen. alto charging in with a knife and eventually blowing the vajra up with a pointblank shot. sheryl and her earring. sheryl and her celphone (oh you gotta remember that one. haha).

there are lots more. and i'm pretty sure there will be a lot more as the series progresses. i just find it sad that you could be letting these new moments pass by focusing to much, negatively, on the homages. sure they're there. but in the grand scheme of things, those homages don't really matter to the whole story. they're there to amuse. if you recognized them, happy easter!

and i don't think he copied it scene for scene. isn't that too much of a generalization? i mean, other than the valkyrie rescue bit, alto coming up to the flight deck, the ms minmei pageant and being trapped in the hold, was everything else lifted? c'mon. it's the 25th anniversary. after such a long time, i would even forgive an exact remake (using current animation technology. wow!). there's an occasion. it's ok to use some old stuff. like i said, it's a tribute.

and yes, it's still a homage. directors and producers often add some stuff from other movies they made. call them easter eggs. call them homage to the original work. i wouldn't call it recycling, though. so far, it isn't. but if the vajra start defecting and trying to join the macross citizens just because they heard ranka singing, and want to get a taste of culture, let's talk again.

Ranka - as far as how I interpreted/felt while watching - does a TERRIBLE job at singing.

Why should there NOT be a Miss Macross contest on the Frontier? I mean - are we to relegate Miss Macross to the past and close the book on it? It makes sense that the contest continued, that it has become a part of popular culture in the Macross Universe - and that girls dream of being accepted into the competition.

haha. nah, i think she's a great singer. but you're right about her movements, they're very amateurish, and i'm sure that's what the animators were going for. and it came out as very kawaii.

I wouldn't be surprised if every fleet has some kind of miss macross pageant. i mean, that's where minmei was discovered. I like the idea that it's some kind of post-war tradition.

Eugimon, you're way over analyzing. Like I said, different characters going through the same events. I'm not saying Alto's motivations are the same as Hikaru's or Ranka's the same as Minmay's. They're clearly different characters with different motivations but they're going through the same motions. Sure, you can add lots of little nuance points that don't affect what's happening to the characters that's different from the originals. Alto didn't run past two trees, Hikaru did! Not making things fresh... Again, of the MAJOR plot points I listed, 77% recycled.

PS - Hikaru sortied for a patrol and stumbled into bad guys IIRC... not at all like how Alto sortied for a training mission and stumbled into bad guys.

PPS - you're right 00X, I did say the outcome is essentially the same but I'm talking about the context within the episode (this is just ep 4 chat). In the end the outcomes will definitely be vastly different as I hope this show won't be a larger homage where we see PC playing with Ranka dolls.

PPPS - I still liked the episode and I'm still a MacF fan thusfar and all I'm saying is that I hope it avoids the homages becoming so thick I feel like I know what's going to happen... like I did in this episode.

Like VTF, i get jenius' point. yes, there are similarities. and if you really give it a thought, you might be able to predict how things will turn out just because you've seen something familar about it. But, hey, i can usually predict an outtcome even without homages. over the years, there are so many movie and tv cliches that you know one event would most probably lead to a particular outcome. Without knowing about macross original, could i have predicted that alto would be called to duty while watching ms macross. I'd say, probably yes. c'mon, if alto stayed through the entire thing, where's the plot in that?

like i said before, to each his own. we agree on the number of homages. i guess we can even agree to a certain extent about the similarities and the predictablity factor. but where VTF, eugimon, aegis and I (and some others) differ is that we believe these things enhance the viewing experience of MacrossF. On the other hand, you might be letting them ruin it for you. it's a case of the macross "memories" working against you rather than for you. but as i said, to each his own.

Edited May 7, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[openget]

I suppose only gundam can get away with doing the same thing...over...and over...and over again.

Anyway, they use 25 a lot in this series. Alto even dies 25 times in the simulator. XP

[azrael]

Anyway, they use 25 a lot in this series. Alto even dies 25 times in the simulator. XP

*cough* 25th Anniversary */cough*

[Graham]

One thing I've always liked about Kawamori and Big West is that they are not afraid to take the Macross franchise in new directions, rather than churning out endless rehashes, ala Gundam.

With each new Macross animation, Kawamori and Big West have always tried to push Macross in new directions, rather than re-treading the same ground, while still keeping the core elements of Variable Fighters, a love triangle and singing.

We can probably all agree that SDFM, Plus, 7 and Zero are all very different from each other, while still retaining the core elements mentioned above.

However, this approach of trying something very different from what has gone before has enjoyed varying degrees of commercial and critical success.

I think it's safe to say that what is familiar or tried-and-tested often offers a greater chance of commercial success than going off in a wildly new and different direction. Witness Gundam, which despite re-hashing nearly every element in every show (rinse and repeat ), still enjoys huge commercial success.

I wouldn't call Macross Frontier a re-hash, it's clearly not IMO. However, I think by providing a greater number of familiar elements and homages than in previous shows, they are perhaps trying to tap into that elusive quality that made Macross such a hit back in the 80', with SDFM & DYRL.

And in my opinion, they are succeeding beyond my wildest expectations so far. I love it. Best thing I've seen in years, whether it be anime or live action.

Graham

[openget]

*cough* 25th Anniversary */cough*

Oh, wow. I never would have guessed.

[/sarcasm]

[Sundown]

scene for scene? I'm sorry, that's a patently false statement and you know it. The only sequence that has come across so far as a direct re-imagining of SDFM was the alto/ranka save sequence.

Every other sequence has gone dramatically different.

I should have said sequence for sequence, and unexperienced Alto shooting at the red lobster in gerwalk, screaming until he empties his clip and is saved by Osma (who most closely resembles Roy in MF) is almost sequence for sequence out of SDF as well. It ends a little differently, but it's more like the original than not.

If Kawamori was doing it out of pragmatism and economy, then instead of SDF:M, shouldn't the key moments that he's "essentially retelling" be from Macross 7?

I mean, damn. Unless he forgot which one was the most popular Macross...

That would be a little too obvious, and it wouldn't be very well received. It's not like I think Kawamori completely absent of *any* creative energy, nor do I think he's stupid. No, I don't think MF is a one-to-one retelling of SDF, but it appears so far to lean heavily on its better moments and many of its plot points and character structures, while past Macrosses were based on very different premises and setups with varying degrees of success. I grant that this will probably change as the story evolves on its own.

dreamweaver, I don't hate Macross Frontier. Sure, I dislike the departure of style and tone from SDF while still aping its best parts, but I've disliked the departures in most of the Macross spinoffs. It's not my dislike of the homages that make me critical of MF-- I actually *enjoy* the homages, which actually make me feel Frontier hasn't shown me much depth of its own. I thought the puking was a decent touch, and the zentradi mall was somewhat amusing, but I'm looking for good plotting and tight characters, not just little cute touches. I actually don't like how his classmates are his wingmates and superiors-- I'm not that into the concept of kids in mecha, and I'm even less into *many* kids in mecha. While I can make an exception for one 17 year old growing up in an adult's world, I'm loathe to accept kids driving valks in the SMS the way MF has it. I also mentioned elsewhere that I liked Ranka's character development with her losing Miss Macross and singing in the mall, and I feel that much of the good writing will be based around her down the line. Overall, I am actually enjoying the series, but that doesn't prevent me for noting things that still bug me.

[VFTF1]

You know - I get the feeling that some of Jenus' criticisms are not based on a point for point comparisson of the SDFM Miss Macross episode with the MF Miss Macross Episode- but rather of memories from the ENTIRE SDF M compared to MF episde 4...

Why?

because this thing about how Ranka notes that Alto is not in the audience any more DID "happen" with Minmey and Hikaru - yes - BUT it was waaaay later. Namely -when Minmey decided to reserve a VIP seat for Hikaru to see Shao Pai Lon.

Hikaru didn't get the message, because in the future universe of SDF M there were no such thing as mobile phones, and so he went to see the movie - rather out of curiosity than anything else - and ended up gettting crammed in the back. When Minmey and Kaifun kissed on screen, he was compelled to leave - and happened to stumble onto Misa Hayese's butt

Minmey - for her part - when she emerged on stage prior to the premiere of the movie, was visibly perturbed about the VIP seat for Hikaru being empty. She took it as an afront.

Clearly she was - as usual - completely incapable of understanding that Hikaru's job as a pilot and the fact that she constantly kept sending him signals saying "you're not my boyfriend/I'm just teasing you/we don't have a relationship" resulted in the empty seat (because if they lived together or were authentically a couple, then surely they would communicate every day, even if by phone, and naturally Hikaru would know he had a VIP seat)...

Compare this to the wonderful Ranka. Sure - she's steamed that Alto is gone - but INITIALLY - at the very beginning of the competition -Alto is there - and you can see in Ranka's face that she is really happy to see him. She was so nervous and felt that she had nothing to offer compared to those other girls - so having a good looking guy like Alto, who is also an up and coming pilot and has a neat job doing air-acrobatics show up ONLY to see Ranka really made a good impact.

She probably thought - for a moment - that Alto had left because she wasn't doing well - but by the end of the Episode, at the Nyan-Nyan restaurant - we see that clearly Ranka learned that Alto had to sortie, and she's happy for him.

Also - as has been pointed out by others - there is no seathing jealousy and immaturity in Alto and Ranka's relationship - Alto is happy to Ranka and encourages her to follow up her dreams, and Ranka is happy for Alto getting into SMS.

Naturally, I don't know how this will develop but it's a big difference from the dynamic between Hikar and Minmey.

Anyways - I bring up Shao Pai Lon to show that certain things can get mixed up in our memories and we remember things differently than they were - particularly if we are remembering mainly emotional impressions.

VFTF1

[Gubaba]

You know - I get the feeling that some of Jenus' criticisms are not based on a point for point comparisson of the SDFM Miss Macross episode with the MF Miss Macross Episode- but rather of memories from the ENTIRE SDF M compared to MF episde 4...

Why?

because this thing about how Ranka notes that Alto is not in the audience any more DID "happen" with Minmey and Hikaru - yes - BUT it was waaaay later. Namely -when Minmey decided to reserve a VIP seat for Hikaru to see Shao Pai Lon.

Hikaru didn't get the message, because in the future universe of SDF M there were no such thing as mobile phones, and so he went to see the movie - rather out of curiosity than anything else - and ended up gettting crammed in the back. When Minmey and Kaifun kissed on screen, he was compelled to leave - and happened to stumble onto Misa Hayese's butt

Minmey - for her part - when she emerged on stage prior to the premiere of the movie, was visibly perturbed about the VIP seat for Hikaru being empty. She took it as an afront.

Clearly she was - as usual - completely incapable of understanding that Hikaru's job as a pilot and the fact that she constantly kept sending him signals saying "you're not my boyfriend/I'm just teasing you/we don't have a relationship" resulted in the empty seat (because if they lived together or were authentically a couple, then surely they would communicate every day, even if by phone, and naturally Hikaru would know he had a VIP seat)...

Compare this to the wonderful Ranka. Sure - she's steamed that Alto is gone - but INITIALLY - at the very beginning of the competition -Alto is there - and you can see in Ranka's face that she is really happy to see him. She was so nervous and felt that she had nothing to offer compared to those other girls - so having a good looking guy like Alto, who is also an up and coming pilot and has a neat job doing air-acrobatics show up ONLY to see Ranka really made a good impact.

She probably thought - for a moment - that Alto had left because she wasn't doing well - but by the end of the Episode, at the Nyan-Nyan restaurant - we see that clearly Ranka learned that Alto had to sortie, and she's happy for him.

Also - as has been pointed out by others - there is no seathing jealousy and immaturity in Alto and Ranka's relationship - Alto is happy to Ranka and encourages her to follow up her dreams, and Ranka is happy for Alto getting into SMS.

Naturally, I don't know how this will develop but it's a big difference from the dynamic between Hikar and Minmey.

Anyways - I bring up Shao Pai Lon to show that certain things can get mixed up in our memories and we remember things differently than they were - particularly if we are remembering mainly emotional impressions.

VFTF1

Just one of the many reasons why I'm glad I did a six-week rewatch of everything Macross recently...it amkes the homages that much easier to sift through and place (although I messed up, thinking that Minmay was Miss Macross contestant number nine...when really, she was number 12 and it was EPISODE 9...).

But I think there isn't much jealousy here (yet), because Alto doesn't seem to be all that into Ranka, although she clearly has a huge crush on him.

Of course, he doesn't seem to be all that into Sheryl, either...maybe he really WILL end up with Mikhail...

[VFTF1]

maybe he really WILL end up with Mikhail...

Ok - I just can't keep it secret any longer.

Ban me if you have to.

But here is the SPOILER ENDING TO MACROSS FRONTIER:

ALTO ENDS UP WITH........................... BOBBY CHUIIE!!!!

vftf1

EDIT: WOW! Gubbaba - Bill Clinton gave you that Nanase avatar??

Edited May 7, 2008 by VFTF1

[dreamweaver13]

EDIT: WOW! Gubbaba - Bill Clinton gave you that Nanase avatar??

omg, i didn't even see it that way before, you naughty naughty boy! that explains the shocked look on luca's face. haha.

well as for alto and mikhail... alto goes to his father to make up... so for old times sake, they do make up.. and THEN put on make up... and then get drunk coz they're so happy... and alto goes back to barracks dead drunk, forgot that he's still wearing his kabuki makeup and clothes... and mikhail sees a hot chick and makes the moves.... and, oh you know where this is going....yaoi fans will have a field day with this one.

[DJ Loe Kee]

dammit, why do i always read these threads. now i know that ranka doesn't win the miss macross thread and i haven't even watched episode 4 yet. oOo well, i'm always readin' manga spoilers by accident for naruto (i know who has died in the manga and i ONLY watch anime, i don't read manga).

[Sketch]

Over analyzing & over defended.

Episode 4 is about as pure homage as you can get without directly copying it as are nearly all of the episodes and even the one that aren't completely homage identical themes run through them leaving a "been there" after taste that is often slightly "wtf!". At least with the original there was an underlaying forward driving plot element. Right now it's just school-dickery with Macross elements thrown in.

But anyways I gave it 4 episodes to prove itself and it simply hasn't, so moving on...

Good. Obviously you're not going to like it even if Kawamori comes to your house and rubs your back while watching it. In dumping it now, you can save us the incessant bitching of an impossible to please fan.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Sketch

[VFTF1]

But anyways I gave it 4 episodes to prove itself and it simply hasn't, so moving on...

The irony here is that you quit because of excess homages...right before Episode 5 - which is the most original of all of the Macross F episodes to date No real homages let alone "copying" in that one

VFTF1

[Gubaba]

The irony here is that you quit because of excess homages...right before Episode 5 - which is the most original of all of the Macross F episodes to date No real homages let alone "copying" in that one

VFTF1

...except for Shryl quoting Minmay.

[MisaForever]

...except for Shryl quoting Minmay.

Speaking of that, could someone possibly record both Minmay and Sheryl saying that line so we can compare the two? I'm curious to see how similar they are.

[VFTF1]

But quoting Minmey as in "As Lynn Minmei once said" or quoting Minmey as in saying something that Minmey happened to say?

Didn't notice

VFTF1

[dreamweaver13]

yup didn't notice too.

what was the quote?

was it while talking with alto and klanklein?

[MisaForever]

Sorry, wrong episode. I'm think of a quote of Minmay's that Sheryl said in Star Date.

[VFTF1]

Sorry, wrong episode. I'm think of a quote of Minmay's that Sheryl said in Star Date.

I...uhh...didn't...notice that either

What quote??

VFTF1

[MisaForever]

I...uhh...didn't...notice that either

What quote??

VFTF1

I can't remember the exact line but she quoted something in the same tone and voice that Minmay said in DYRL. I think someone mentioned it in the Episode 5 thread.

[VFTF1]

I can't remember the exact line but she quoted something in the same tone and voice that Minmay said in DYRL.

That's it! I'm not watching this garbage any more!

I mean - Sheryl quoting something in the same TONE that Minmey said in DYRL - enough with the homages already! I mean - what a rip off! Can't they be more original!

I'm gonna go watch Transformers: Animated instead! Now THERE'S originality!

VFTF1

[eugimon]

That's it! I'm not watching this garbage any more!

I mean - Sheryl quoting something in the same TONE that Minmey said in DYRL - enough with the homages already! I mean - what a rip off! Can't they be more original!

I'm gonna go watch Transformers: Animated instead! Now THERE'S originality!

VFTF1

You mean, Teen Transfomers Titans?

[MisaForever]

You mean, Teen Transfomers Titans?

HEY!!! It's a good show! Like MacrossF, it has an abundance of references from Generation 1

[eugimon]

haha, I like it well enough. I just find it amusing that people here will praise shows like T:A and gundam 00 and then knock MF for faults that those two show have in spades.

[MisaForever]

Yea really. I have found not ONE reason to knock Macross Frontier. NOT ONE!!

[VFTF1]

Macross Frontier is the best show I've ever watched I am really impressed by it

VFTF1

[MisaForever]

INDEED