Macross Frontier Episode 4 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Shouta]

yea i noticed the stage says 20th but was announced as the 12th. figured 12th should be correct coz Cathy would be very very old if its 20th this time

I went with 20th because it's more likely that the VA screwed up than the animators, at least I think so. Besides, if it was 12 years ago, she wouldn't be that old. Probably mid to late 20s.

[Duke Togo]

Ditto (to eugimon). Macross Frontier is top quality television series animation as far as I can tell and has no more or less problems than any other series I'm watching.

I disagree, I have to say I've been a bit disappointed, but I probably don't watch as many series as you guys do.

[MisaForever]

I disagree, I have to say I've been a bit disappointed, but I probably don't watch as many series as you guys do.

I don't watch a lot of series (at least anymore) but I still don't notice these things that often unless someone points them out. I get too wrapped up in the show itself which is a GOOD thing. Means it's cool

[Tobi54]

I disagree, I have to say I've been a bit disappointed, but I probably don't watch as many series as you guys do.

I've also been a bit disappointed in the drop in quality of the hand-drawn elements mainly, every other area is still top-notch in my book, it's pretty obvious too see which sections were farmed out to other houses, assuming everything that Satelight is handling themselves looks as good as the CGI. Some shots look amazing, while others really lack detail, consistency seems to be a problem, but then again, I'm just nit picking, we still have to keep in mind that it's a TV series, not an OVA. I still hope they up it up a notch on the hand-drawn stuff

[MisaForever]

I think we are all forgetting that this is indeed a TV series, not an OVA but yet we're getting semi-OVA like quality. Let's not be too anal about the quality here folks.

[00X]

It's so lame registering just to ask what amounts to a tech support question, but Goddamnit, this really burns me.

The copy of AIA IZ's release of episode 4 I downloaded plays in monoraul. I got the torrent right off of Scarywater, too. I tried re-encoding for SVCD, but no dice. Still mono. Both Gspot and my MP4 converter(basically a front-end for FFmpeg) tell me it's stereo, though. What the Hell.

I'm guessing the seperation sucks, then. Alot.

But I don't see anybody else bringing it up. I've got a bad feeling this problem's specific to me, and I'm gonna be screwed for the rest of AIA's run on MacF. Son of a bitch... Somebody tell me I'm wrong.

Edited April 28, 2008 by 00X

[Mr March]

I disagree, I have to say I've been a bit disappointed, but I probably don't watch as many series as you guys do.

I've no doubt you are. That's why we love ya

[Tobi54]

It's not really about being anal, but being able to acknowledge the trend, IMO ep4 had the biggest decline so far, I hope it doesn't get lower than this. You are right though, and I couldnt agree more with you about MacF having OVA quality, especially when it comes to the set pieces.

[Sergorn]

Ditto (to eugimon). Macross Frontier is top quality television series animation as far as I can tell and has no more or less problems than any other series I'm watching.

Yeah I agree. The 2D animation all in all is very good for TV Series- probably no better or worse than most of the high end series out there, and definitly better than a lot of series. Sure I could name a couple of series which look better than this (Serei no Moribito comes to mind), but they're the exception not the rule. The 3D animation though, now I'll have to say that pretty blows much every else on TV out of the water - I couldn't name one series that comes even close to being *that* good both technically and in term of directing (there was Aquarion, but even though it was already highly impressive 3 years ago, Frontier really takes this a whole step further).

So it might not be *quite* OAV quality, but it comes close - just compare it to Macross Zero (which I think we'll all agree really was goddamn impressive visually speaking) it comes pretty close in many aspects, and even better in some. That they manage to offer such quality on weekly TV series is an outstanding achievement in itself.

But seriously - I'm a sucker for mecha action and mecha animes - and everything else almost feels bland in comparison.

-Sergorn

[Duke Togo]

I've no doubt you are. That's why we love ya

I will say this, though, I think the show is very well directed. I also think the CG work is solid.

[Tobi54]

So it might not be *quite* OAV quality, but it comes close - just compare it to Macross Zero (which I think we'll all agree really was goddamn impressive visually speaking) it comes pretty close in many aspects, and even better in some. That they manage to offer such quality on weekly TV series is an outstanding achievement in itself.

-Sergorn

QFT

Honestly, Frontier is the whole package, another thing that can't be left unsaid is the amazing job Kanno is doing with the music, I've been actually blown away by every single track, I'd go as far as saying some of the themes are comparable to ones you'd hear on big-budget Hollywood movies. I really hope they use the new version of DYRL later in the series.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Tobi54

[Zinjo]

It's so lame registering just to ask what amounts to a tech support question, but Goddamnit, this really burns me.

The copy of AIA IZ's release of episode 4 I downloaded plays in monoraul. I got the torrent right off of Scarywater, too. I tried re-encoding for SVCD, but no dice. Still mono. Both Gspot and my MP4 converter(basically a front-end for FFmpeg) tell me it's stereo, though. What the Hell.

I'm guessing the seperation sucks, then. Alot.

But I don't see anybody else bringing it up. I've got a bad feeling this problem's specific to me, and I'm gonna be screwed for the rest of AIA's run on MacF. Son of a bitch... Somebody tell me I'm wrong.

Firstly, don't cuss here the mods are pretty strict about it.

Secondly the source audio is AAC stero at 48000kh, so it's probably your software.

I use ConvertX to DVD and have no issues with audio.

[Duke Togo]

I think the 2D animation in Frontier is on par with say, Gurren Lagann, but clearly is not up to the quality of shows like Eureka Seven, Planetes, and Mushi-shi. It lacks even the consistency of quality of Haruhi Suzumiya. And while it has some character designs that I think are rather well done (Ranka, Sheryl, Alto, for instance), it also has some totally amateurish designs like Mikhail, Luca, and Leon. As a complete visual package, its nowhere close to Zero. However, I think its been exceptionally well directed, and the CG work is rather good.

The show is just flat out good, but I for one am a little disappointed that the standard if quality on the 2D animation isn't something being pushed for a franchise like Macross.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Duke Togo

[darkrealmbahamut]

I think we are all forgetting that this is indeed a TV series, not an OVA but yet we're getting semi-OVA like quality. Let's not be too anal about the quality here folks.

I agree we all miss that this is meant to last at least several months not a one ever few months or so. I really only notice the mistakes every so often other wise I am glue to the screen watching. I mean I am watching this episode for the fourth time (stupid college and cutting in on macross time!).

[MisaForever]

Here's how I'm using the subs because of their quality/time of release:

Gattai: For me to watch since they seem to release first

AiA: For me to show friends since they seem to be a bit better but not quite as fast

Shinsen: For me to keep as my "official" release as they are slow but the best quality so far

Just my thoughts.

[00X]

I use ConvertX to DVD and have no issues with audio.

Works for you, huh?

So, there must be something enigmatic about AIA Ep4's encoding that just doesn't agree with FFMpeg, or somehow my copy of it got corrupted in an unbelievably bizarre way. That's real peachy.

Can anybody with Mplayer, preferably v1.0rc2 Windows, comfirm or deny the first possibility? And preferably deny...

[eugimon]

I think the 2D animation in Frontier is on par with say, Gurren Lagann, but clearly is not up to the quality of shows like Eureka Seven, Planetes, and Mushi-shi. It lacks even the consistency of quality of Haruhi Suzumiya. And while it has some character designs that I think are rather well done (Ranka, Sheryl, Alto, for instance), it also has some totally amateurish designs like Mikhail, Luca, and Leon. As a complete visual package, its nowhere close to Zero. However, I think its been exceptionally well directed, and the CG work is rather good.

The show is just flat out good, but I for one am a little disappointed that the standard if quality on the 2D animation isn't something being pushed for a franchise like Macross.

yeah, I'll agree that MF isn't up to par with Eureka 7, but then again, a lot of OAVs aren't up to par with Eureka 7. Eureka 7 was amazing, the 2D character designs and animation were top notch and the mechanical animation was equally impressive.

[Mr March]

Yeah I agree. The 2D animation all in all is very good for TV Series- probably no better or worse than most of the high end series out there, and definitly better than a lot of series. Sure I could name a couple of series which look better than this (Serei no Moribito comes to mind), but they're the exception not the rule. The 3D animation though, now I'll have to say that pretty blows much every else on TV out of the water - I couldn't name one series that comes even close to being *that* good both technically and in term of directing (there was Aquarion, but even though it was already highly impressive 3 years ago, Frontier really takes this a whole step further).

That's how I see it. I compare the 2D animation of Macross Frontier to Planetes, Code Geass or Gundam 00 and I'm just not seeing any major, in-your-face differences in animation quality. And the 3D animation in Frontier is leading edge as far as anything I've ever seen in anime television. I'm not expecting OVA quality from a TV series, but for what they do in Macross Frontier is top notch to my mind.

[wolfx]

Being someone who watches alot of anime, i would have to sadly say that Frontier's consistency is dropping with each new episode. You'll never see these kind of quality drops in most sci fi anime like Code Geass, Gundam 00, Planet ES, etc. Its usually the crappy girlgame adaptations that are prone to these quality drop horrors. But oh well, lets just hope they keep the animation and art at a tolerable level....i'm still tolerating it and i've seen worse quality drops.

[Heron]

Being someone who watches alot of anime, i would have to sadly say that Frontier's consistency is dropping with each new episode. You'll never see these kind of quality drops in most sci fi anime like Code Geass, Gundam 00, Planet ES, etc. Its usually the crappy girlgame adaptations that are prone to these quality drop horrors. But oh well, lets just hope they keep the animation and art at a tolerable level....i'm still tolerating it and i've seen worse quality drops.

If I can still stand to watch SDF:M and M7, then I can tolerate it till the end.

[eugimon]

Being someone who watches alot of anime, i would have to sadly say that Frontier's consistency is dropping with each new episode. You'll never see these kind of quality drops in most sci fi anime like Code Geass, Gundam 00, Planet ES, etc. Its usually the crappy girlgame adaptations that are prone to these quality drop horrors. But oh well, lets just hope they keep the animation and art at a tolerable level....i'm still tolerating it and i've seen worse quality drops.

are you kidding? gundam 00 had some horrible animation problems. I'd say gundam 00 is there with Bleach/naruto in terms of animation quality and MF beinging somewhere between them and eureka 7

[mikeszekely]

Forgive me if this has been brought up already, but I just watched episode 4 today (skipping Gattai, wait for AiA) and while I'm really digging this show, Klein Klan is the worst thing that's happened to Macross since faces on Valkyries. I don't care if they explain away her issue with some "genes are screwed up" line, taking a perfectly fine Zentraedi warrior, micronizing her, and having her turn into not just a child, but a cheesy caricature of every bossy underage girl that's ever turned up in anime is just a travesty.

[Sergorn]

Being someone who watches alot of anime, i would have to sadly say that Frontier's consistency is dropping with each new episode. You'll never see these kind of quality drops in most sci fi anime like Code Geass, Gundam 00, Planet ES, etc. Its usually the crappy girlgame adaptations that are prone to these quality drop horrors.

I've watched most of these anime as well, and while I loved both Code Geass and Gundam 00 I really don't feel they were better done than Frontier, technically speaking. Also I really don't see much of a quality drop in Frontier so far - for now it seems to remains pretty consistant IMO.

Forgive me if this has been brought up already, but I just watched episode 4 today (skipping Gattai, wait for AiA) and while I'm really digging this show, Klein Klan is the worst thing that's happened to Macross since faces on Valkyries. I don't care if they explain away her issue with some "genes are screwed up" line, taking a perfectly fine Zentraedi warrior, micronizing her, and having her turn into not just a child, but a cheesy caricature of every bossy underage girl that's ever turned up in anime is just a travesty.

Personally I really dig Klein Klan - and that matter all of the humor we've seen in the last couple episodes. I'd say actually I'm glad Macross Frontier can also offer these kind of lighter humoristic moments. I really welcome those. I could stand ah oh so gritty and serious tone from a short OAV serie like Macross Plus and Macross Zero, but in a 26 episodes I welcome this kind of sillyness

-Sergorn

[Phil K]

Macross has never been serious business, if ep 4 is turning you off, you should probably stop watching now.

[mikeszekely]

Macross has never been serious business, if ep 4 is turning you off, you should probably stop watching now.

Episode 4 isn't turning me off, Klein is.

Personally I really dig Klein Klan - and that matter all of the humor we've seen in the last couple episodes. I'd say actually I'm glad Macross Frontier can also offer these kind of lighter humoristic moments. I really welcome those. I could stand ah oh so gritty and serious tone from a short OAV serie like Macross Plus and Macross Zero, but in a 26 episodes I welcome this kind of sillyness

I'm fine with humor, too. Alto's training has been, in my opinion, a high point of the series, including the hazing. Heck, I'm one of the members on this board that actually liked Macross 7, so I'd say I'm fairly tolerant of silliness. But I don't find Klein amusing, at all. She's like some kind of Tenchi Muyo reject, and jarringly out of place in Frontier.

[GogDog]

I would rather have Klan be a normal Meltran. It's not killing me or anything though.

[Graham]

But she's so Cuuuuuuuuuute! Leave Klan Klan alone.

Graham

[Graham]

To be honest, I don't think Klan will be in the show too often, she's just a minor character.

I probably wouldn't like to see her in every episode, but an appearance now and again in micronised form for comic relief is OK.

Of course, I'd much rather see her full size fighting in her Q-Rau.

Graham

[eugimon]

I like KK as well, I actually think it's a cute/interesting idea that the micronization process can be affected by the individual's genetic traits. And hell, I'm just happy that we have a modern anime show that isn't full of angst ridden brooding characters.

[JB0]

But now every time I watch a QRau fight, somewhere in the back of my mind a voice will be going "You know that's a comic-relief chibi in there, right?"

DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH I SUFFER BECAUSE OF FRONTIER?!?!?!?!

[Mr March]

Yep, the "animation quality" debate has officially just become Macross World's new "small hands" debacle. I'm sorry but there's no way the Frontier animation did some huge nose dive below the level of Code Geass or Gundam 00, unless I was beaten unconscious during the last two episodes. I'm filing this one under minutiae and moving on.

On the issue of Klan Klein, I'm loving her character so far. She's lethal in the cockpit, easy on the eyes and hilarious as a miclone. She's all win so far.

Btw, "Klein" means "Small" in German

[Project Phoenix]

It's interesting to have a comedy relief character that can revert back to a giant, lethal version of herself in Frontier. I really hope they don't overdo it and just let the story progress without too much jokes in between. I like Klan Klein so far. But it's too early to tell.

Slightly OT: Okay, if Klein means "small" in German, then those of us who uses CK products would be...

[ComicKaze]

Klan Klein is the best surprise about this show.

They just kept upping the ante on her. First we hear it's a pixie squadron - turns out to be classic Meltran Quedluun's! (sp). Then we see her fight and kickass. Then we see them in the landing bay and we expect it to be adapted for a regular sized pilot but you hear giant footsteps, a booming voice, then it opens and out steps a giant Meltran with classic physics defying bust shocking the hell out of everyone. Next we see her at the party and wonder why she looks so similar, it turns out to be her but micronised and the most hilarious thing I have seen in anime for a decade. I love the idea that she's a deadly no-fooling around giant female warrior of death as a meltran and as a chibi, it's the same but it's channeled into more cuteness and fun than can possibly be imagined.

[Mr March]

Klan Klein is the best surprise about this show.

They just kept upping the ante on her. First we hear it's a pixie squadron - turns out to be classic Meltran Quedluun's! (sp). Then we see her fight and kickass. Then we see them in the landing bay and we expect it to be adapted for a regular sized pilot but you hear giant footsteps, a booming voice, then it opens and out steps a giant Meltran with classic physics defying bust shocking the hell out of everyone. Next we see her at the party and wonder why she looks so similar, it turns out to be her but micronised and the most hilarious thing I have seen in anime for a decade. I love the idea that she's a deadly no-fooling around giant female warrior of death as a meltran and as a chibi, it's the same but it's channeled into more cuteness and fun than can possibly be imagined.

I agree. I think it was a brilliant use of the established Macross fiction to create Klan Klein. It allows the character to be seen as a credible, experienced pilot when a full-sized Mentradi, yet she can be just as easily accepted as the chibi comic relief when a miclone. It's sheer brilliance and it gives Klan Klein all the benefits of a comic relief character but none of the problems taking her seriously when situations turn serious.

[wolfx]

are you kidding? gundam 00 had some horrible animation problems. I'd say gundam 00 is there with Bleach/naruto in terms of animation quality and MF beinging somewhere between them and eureka 7

If anything i think the quality for 00 was laudable and impressive for a modern anime. Could you point out at which point there were "horrible animation problems" ? I definately missed it. The cel animation of the mecha fights were brilliant and fluid that it would've made Itano proud.

Also be aware that 00 and Code Geass were intentionally split into 2 and 3 seasons respectively to maintain the level of quality rather than 1 long running season. That said I've never heard anyone complaining bout how 00 sucks in terms of the art/animation...only in Macrossworld?

Now that i just remembered, even Eureka 7 suffered a bad art quality drop in about 3-4 episodes. But its forgivable since it only occured in those episodes and the rest of the 52 odd episodes were perfect and the affected episodes were fillers anyway.

Yep, the "animation quality" debate has officially just become Macross World's new "small hands" debacle. I'm sorry but there's no way the Frontier animation did some huge nose dive below the level of Code Geass or Gundam 00, unless I was beaten unconscious during the last two episodes. I'm filing this one under minutiae and moving on.

It wasn't a nose dive for sure, but there was considerable degradation between eps 1 to 4. CG was perfect and i have no qualms with it. But the non-CG cel animation had issues with mouth-to-voice sync, lower frame rates for animation, art looking strange and inconsistent in small 5 second spurts. Not really complaining but I fear if this trend continues further.