Macross Frontier Episode 4 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[wolfx]

Then we see them in the landing bay and we expect it to be adapted for a regular sized pilot but you hear giant footsteps, a booming voice, then it opens and out steps a giant Meltran with classic physics defying bust shocking the hell out of everyone.

It just occured to me...don't giant meltran/zentrans talk with a strange echo in their voice? Or does that only apply when they are speaking zentran?

[GogDog]

Of course, I'd much rather see her full size fighting in her Q-Rau.

Me too, I can't get enough of those Q-Raus. I know the VF-25s are the stars of the show, but I hope the Q-Raus get plenty of screentime.

First we hear it's a pixie squadron - turns out to be classic Meltran Quedluun's! (sp). Then we see her fight and kickass. Then we see them in the landing bay and we expect it to be adapted for a regular sized pilot but you hear giant footsteps, a booming voice, then it opens and out steps a giant Meltran with classic physics defying bust shocking the hell out of everyone.

Yeah, it's great.

[terry the lone wolf]

Have they named Klan's Meltran partners yet? The tall one with the pink hair is kinda cute.

[wolfx]

Have they named Klan's Meltran partners yet? The tall one with the pink hair is kinda cute.

I think that's Nene, the cute sounding one who got shot by Alto during training. Based on the voice she strikes me as the moe-blob clumsy character.

[The_WOZ]

It just occured to me...don't giant meltran/zentrans talk with a strange echo in their voice? Or does that only apply when they are speaking zentran?

If you listen carefully, the echo is there, it's just not as pronounced as in SDFM

[JB0]

Slightly OT: Okay, if Klein means "small" in German, then those of us who uses CK products would be...

Suffering from nosecone envy, I guess.

Anyways, back to the important part.

Q-RAU! YEAH!

[Phil K]

If anything i think the quality for 00 was laudable and impressive for a modern anime. Could you point out at which point there were "horrible animation problems" ? I definately missed it. The cel animation of the mecha fights were brilliant and fluid that it would've made Itano proud.

A prime example is the last episode where the Exia fights the Alvaroon. The animation during the fight was horrid. The Alvaroon suffers from gun erectile dysfunction.

[eugimon]

If anything i think the quality for 00 was laudable and impressive for a modern anime. Could you point out at which point there were "horrible animation problems" ? I definately missed it. The cel animation of the mecha fights were brilliant and fluid that it would've made Itano proud.

Also be aware that 00 and Code Geass were intentionally split into 2 and 3 seasons respectively to maintain the level of quality rather than 1 long running season. That said I've never heard anyone complaining bout how 00 sucks in terms of the art/animation...only in Macrossworld?

Now that i just remembered, even Eureka 7 suffered a bad art quality drop in about 3-4 episodes. But its forgivable since it only occured in those episodes and the rest of the 52 odd episodes were perfect and the affected episodes were fillers anyway.

It wasn't a nose dive for sure, but there was considerable degradation between eps 1 to 4. CG was perfect and i have no qualms with it. But the non-CG cel animation had issues with mouth-to-voice sync, lower frame rates for animation, art looking strange and inconsistent in small 5 second spurts. Not really complaining but I fear if this trend continues further.

are you kidding? Anytime a non gundam meister is on the screen it looks like crap. The politicians for example are horrendously awful. And even the meisters are usually just standing around and talking (when not in their gundams). They're almost manequins, people in frontier are walking around, singing, dancing, jumping on each other and turning into little loli dinosaur monsters. For example, episode 19... the battles are laughable, consisting mostly of talking heads and a lot of the action shots are the typical: close shot of a gundam drawing a weapon, talking head shot of pilot screaming, and then cut away shot of a gundam in a "cool" pose as his enemy blows up or whatever. Doesn't even approach the fight choreography of macross frontier.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you can honestly compare gundam00 to what we've seen in MF, either in character animation or in dog fights.

Edited April 29, 2008 by eugimon

[farmer_yohei]

People keep talking about a nosedive in quality, but the thing to remember is that even at its worst Frontier still looks better than most shows. Now perhaps if it had started out really crappy and gotten worse there would be cause for alarm.

[Graham]

If anything i think the quality for 00 was laudable and impressive for a modern anime. Could you point out at which point there were "horrible animation problems" ? I definately missed it. The cel animation of the mecha fights were brilliant and fluid that it would've made Itano proud.

Heh, did we watch the same anime?

From the 5 episodes I watched of 00, I thought the cell animation was strictly average for the characters and only poor-to average for the backgrounds and mecha fights. Plus I found the fight choreography really dull and lacking in tension or excitement.

Heck, even though I didn't really like them that much, I managed to sit through all of SEED and 3/4 of SEED Destiny and I thought that the animation in those two series was superior to 00.

But each to his own, that's why there is different anime for different folks.

Graham

[ron5864]

Episode 4 was really good. A lot elements in there to remind us of the first SDF Macross series. Both has a serious battle in which the battroid ends up heavily damaged with Miss Macross contest in the background. The Minmei song which Ranka sang was also a good reminder of this series origins.

At least Miria's Que-Rau battle suit seems to have been passed down to the Pixie Squadron's captain, Klan Klan.

[Holocause]

Not to mention in 00, within 4 episodes, they've already recycled some of the action shots. With M:F, 4 episodes in and I've yet to see them recycle a shot during the action sequences. Show me a still from any of the M:F and I'll be able to tell which episode it was, show me a still from 00 and I won't be able to tell which episode it was used for.

[Graham]

I think they recycled the shot of Alto launching in his Ex-Gear in episode #4 of Frontier, but that's about it.

Graham

[Graham]

At least Miria's Que-Rau battle suit seems to have been passed down to the Pixie Squadron's captain, Klan Klan.

As I stated in one of the other threads, if you compare the Frontier Q-Rau art that appeared in Hobby Japan magazine a few months ago with original SDFM/DYRL Q-Rau line art, they are quite different mecha.

And I'm not just talking about the obvious stuff like the waeapons. There are lots of diffderences to the arms, legs, head and body. I'll have to post a comparison.

Graham

[Kronnang Dunn]

As I stated in one of the other threads, if you compare the Frontier Q-Rau art that appeared in Hobby Japan magazine a few months ago with original SDFM/DYRL Q-Rau line art, they are quite different mecha.

And I'm not just talking about the obvious stuff like the weapons. There are lots of differences to the arms, legs, head and body. I'll have to post a comparison.

Graham

Indeed. They are the same color, but certainly not the same design. I still can't understand why so many people keep saying the Frontier Q-Rau's look like those from the original T.V. series & MACROSS:DYRL...

Edited April 29, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[miriya]

Just watched 04 and this show keeps getting better. When I heard that there was going to be a new macross series I was happy for sure but I never thought it would be this great! It is truly a dream come true! And it makes me that much more grateful about MacrossWorldForums because i would not have known about it otherwise and would not have been able to figure out how to watch it either. Thank you everyone, I have to go burry my face in a pillow and cry tears of joy!

Oh, and the Meltraendi babes! What a gas!

[00X]

Not to mention in 00, within 4 episodes, they've already recycled some of the action shots. With M:F, 4 episodes in and I've yet to see them recycle a shot during the action sequences. Show me a still from any of the M:F and I'll be able to tell which episode it was, show me a still from 00 and I won't be able to tell which episode it was used for.

Well... It's 4 episodes in, and they already recycled Alto's catapult launch. But I choose to believe that was just a little tribute SDF:M's habit for reusing animation. Hah hah... Hah... Right?

Yeah.

Setting aside for a moment that omen I don't even want to think about... Can anybody with an absoluely-definitely-for-sure-plays-in-stereo copy of AIA's Ep4 tell me its audio bitrate? I'd kind of like to avoid the 14 hours it'd take to redownload, if I'm just gonna end up with Ep4 in mono... Again.

EDIT

I think they recycled the shot of Alto launching in his Ex-Gear in episode #4 of Frontier, but that's about it.

Graham

Actually, I'm pretty sure they recycled the 2D art for his ExGear's feet from Ep1, when he was pulling up to the catapult, for Ep2, when he was rolling away from Lanka. They were kinda clever about it, though.

Edited April 29, 2008 by 00X

[cyde01]

an appearance now and again in micronised form for comic relief is OK.

Graham

except she's not funny. she's lame.

[eugimon]

seriously? you guys are complaining about recycling the launches? This coming off of gundam seed? Where half of every episode was comprised of recycled launch shots?

Edited April 29, 2008 by eugimon

[cyde01]

I was pretty tired so I heard "teisatsu gari" instead of "teisatsu gaeri" which I mistook for "target hunting."

"teisatsu gari" makes no grammatical sense whatsoever. "teisatsu gari" is not "target hunting," it is "surveillance hunting." how do u hunt for surveillance?

Edited April 29, 2008 by cyde01

[cyde01]

Gattai subs:

Ozma: Ozma Lee, entering

Captain: How it goes? The business?

Ozma: We've managed fifty.

Captain: Right up your alley, huh.

AiA subs:

Ozma: Ozma Lee entering.

Captain: How about a wager?

Ozma: Fifty on our guys.

Captain: You're on.

woah, that's pretty bad!! AiA nailed that one. gattai's doesn't make sense at all! we've managed 50 for the business? right up your alley?

Edited April 29, 2008 by cyde01

[MilSpex]

Miss Macross was pretty cool. The best episode yet as many have said, and I even got over my CG animation hate to enjoy it. It felt a lot like Macross to me.

Could someone please explain a couple of things to me tho? :

Was it the 12th or 25th Miss Macross contest on Frontier? They mentioned 12th in some parts and then on the billboard outside theres a 25th on the sign.

What are the names of the factions on board the Frontier fleet? Are SMS a private military contractor akin to organisations like Blackwater in Iraq? What does SMS stand for? What is the name of the military? NUNS? Or is that a special group within the military? I searched for the answers but couldn`t find anything amongst the maze of long threads on Frontier.

Can`t say I like the idea of the main group of pilots being freelance mercenaries.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Was it the 12th or 25th Miss Macross contest on Frontier? They mentioned 12th in some parts and then on the billboard outside theres a 25th on the sign.

Perhaps is the 12th Miss Macross contest that is taking place in the 25th Colonization fleet, Macross Frontier...

What are the names of the factions on board the Frontier fleet? Are SMS a private military contractor akin to organisations like Blackwater in Iraq? What does SMS stand for? What is the name of the military? NUNS? Or is that a special group within the military? I searched for the answers but couldn`t find anything amongst the maze of long threads on Frontier.

Can`t say I like the idea of the main group of pilots being freelance mercenaries.

S.M.S. Seems kinda like Blackwater, but not as corporate-money-driven like it... Blackwater is the biggest private army in the real world, while SMS looks like a waaay smaller organization. S.M.S. seems more like a coalition of very tough battle-hardened elite mercs to me. They get lots of money for their missions, which they wisely employ to get the latest & most advanced hardware. They got the VF-25 cause the manufacturer wanted to test it in a real battle scenario. S.M.S. probably stands for Special Mission Service, Society or something like that...

The one that looks more corporate-driven is NUNS. It stands for NEW UN SPACY... Is basically the UN Spacy from the original Macross & Macross 7, but kinda reformed in its administration. It seems is managed more like a corporation now...

Edited April 29, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[mike_s_6]

except she's not funny. she's lame.

I also don't like Klan Klan and the humor around her either - I think that the humor in the episode was just right, what with Ranka headbutting the microphone, the heart-shaped trail in the fight scene, SMS's prank on Alto... But then it went on overdrive when little Klan Klan came in and it suddenly became cheesy for me.

Edited April 29, 2008 by mike_s_6

[Sorata]

My sig says what I think of her.

[MilSpex]

S.M.S. Seems kinda like Blackwater, but not as corporate-money-driven like it... It seems more like a coalition of very tough battle-hardened mercs to me. They get lots of money for their missions, which they wisely employ to get the latest & most advanced hardware. They got the VF-25 cause the manufacturer wanted to test it in a real battle scenario. S.M.S. probably stands for Special Mission Service, Society or something like that...

The one that looks more corporate-driven is NUNS. It stands for NEW UN SPACY... Is basically the UN Spacy from the original Macross & Macross 7, but kinda reformed in its administration. It seems is managed more like a corporation now...

Thanks for your answers, that makes things clearer.

Had a look at the Wikipedia entry too which helps (d`oh)

[wolfx]

are you kidding? Anytime a non gundam meister is on the screen it looks like crap. The politicians for example are horrendously awful. And even the meisters are usually just standing around and talking (when not in their gundams). They're almost manequins, people in frontier are walking around, singing, dancing, jumping on each other and turning into little loli dinosaur monsters. For example, episode 19... the battles are laughable, consisting mostly of talking heads and a lot of the action shots are the typical: close shot of a gundam drawing a weapon, talking head shot of pilot screaming, and then cut away shot of a gundam in a "cool" pose as his enemy blows up or whatever. Doesn't even approach the fight choreography of macross frontier.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you can honestly compare gundam00 to what we've seen in MF, either in character animation or in dog fights.

That was in what...episode 1? Which i fully agree with you. How about episode 4? Alot of people walking dancing singing etc? How about the generic students in the classroom and those audience (other than Ranka and whatshername) in the miss macross frontier competition which are static? Then not to mention in ep 3, Ranka grew bigger "psycho killer eyes" in one scene while talking to Alto.

But i'm not even arguing about these little details that i can easily forgive. I'm talking about the main characters and how they look different/strange in some scenes and how the fluid animation of nyan2 and the Sheryl concert from ep1 was lost in later episodes. At least in 00, the meisters and main characters look the same in every frame and scene. This doesn't seem to be the case in MF. The animation (and by animation i mean framerates/fluidity) don't look like they dropped throughout.

Sure it doesn't look so bad now but i worry for the future.

Heh, did we watch the same anime?

From the 5 episodes I watched of 00, I thought the cell animation was strictly average for the characters and only poor-to average for the backgrounds and mecha fights. Plus I found the fight choreography really dull and lacking in tension or excitement.

Heck, even though I didn't really like them that much, I managed to sit through all of SEED and 3/4 of SEED Destiny and I thought that the animation in those two series was superior to 00.

But each to his own, that's why there is different anime for different folks.

Graham

You're just biased. Everyone knows you hate gundam. And I don't think anyone will agree SEED or DESTINY is in anyway better than 00. SEED was horrendous. I'm not gonna argue about the fight choreography because i feel both MF and 00 are good in their own way.

Not to mention in 00, within 4 episodes, they've already recycled some of the action shots. With M:F, 4 episodes in and I've yet to see them recycle a shot during the action sequences. Show me a still from any of the M:F and I'll be able to tell which episode it was, show me a still from 00 and I won't be able to tell which episode it was used for.

Recycled animation? There were some, but not very noticeable and very rare. Not as much as SEED and most of the Gundam franchise. And you have to remember the action sequences in MF are CG....much easier to choreograph and do on CG compared to traditional animation

[Kamion]

Setting aside for a moment that omen I don't even want to think about... Can anybody with an absoluely-definitely-for-sure-plays-in-stereo copy of AIA's Ep4 tell me its audio bitrate? I'd kind of like to avoid the 14 hours it'd take to redownload, if I'm just gonna end up with Ep4 in mono... Again.

Why don't you just d/l the codec pack and upgrade your software?

http://www.cccp-project.net/

Edited April 29, 2008 by Kamion

[00X]

seriously? you guys are complaining about recycling the launches? This coming off of gundam seed? Where half of every episode was comprised of recycled launch shots?

It isn't the recycling itself that bothers me, so much as that it could mean they're getting hamstrung by time and/or budget constraints after 3 episodes.

Why don't you just d/l the codec pack and upgrade your software?

http://www.cccp-project.net/

Yeah, installing mp4, h264, and mpeg4aac codecs was my first plan. After a week solid, I was finally able to repair AVI playback from completely broken, to just mildly broken, the codecs never worked in the first place, and their uninstallers only half worked. Since then, I've got a Never Install New Codecs Ever Again policy. That's why I use Mplayer, because the codecs are all internal. Also, I'm not running Vista/XP/2K. Also also, I've heard some bad things about the CCCP. Like, for some people it conflicts with other codecs and doesn't uninstall correctly. Just the kinds of problems that make my life oh so super keen.

But it wouldn't help anyway. I extracted the audio and converted it to a perfectly normal MP3, which didn't fix anything... And it would have if it were just a problem with FFMpeg. It is actually stereo, but both damn channels are identical to eachother(or at least imperceivably different), making it effectively mono.

It's a bad AAC track. A bad, bad AAC track. But I don't know if it's the result of some really surreal file corruption, or if everybody who used the Scarywater torrent got the exact same file as I did, and hence... I'll get the same damn thing if I try again.

[eugimon]

I think the time to get worried is when whole scenes get turned into talking head shots and hero battle sequences start getting recycled.

[ComicKaze]

With CG dramatically cheaper than animation for action after the initial investment, I doubt we'll see recycled action shots. Even if they need to do that, they can just move the computer camera around so it doesn't look recycled.

As far as SMS...given the ridiculous acronyms in anime, it might as well be Super Macross Society!

[RDClip]

FYI, never is a good idea to bring up gundam in a Macross discussion

Anyway, i think some of you guys are over exaggerating a bit. To be an anime fan is to sometimes let little small defects slide.

[mike_s_6]

With CG dramatically cheaper than animation for action after the initial investment, I doubt we'll see recycled action shots. Even if they need to do that, they can just move the computer camera around so it doesn't look recycled.

The only reason they'd recycle CG is if they suddenly lost time to render the scene. Which I doubt!

[Radd]

Man, some people truly are idealists. However, never forget that there are men in business suits who constantly look for ways to increase profits by cutting corners. Just because it would be so much easier to render the same shots does not mean it will happen all the time, and no more recycled footage. Render time = money. Sure, less so much than animating new footage from scratch, but there's a bottom line to consider, people! Newer, faster, easier ways to do things simply means more corners to cut.

[mike_s_6]

Man, some people truly are idealists. However, never forget that there are men in business suits who constantly look for ways to increase profits by cutting corners. Just because it would be so much easier to render the same shots does not mean it will happen all the time, and no more recycled footage. Render time = money. Sure, less so much than animating new footage from scratch, but there's a bottom line to consider, people! Newer, faster, easier ways to do things simply means more corners to cut.

Well, that's also a good point, since rendering takes hours if you don't have the best equipment. What perhaps we wanted to say, which you also seem to agree with, is that it is less likely for animators to recycle 3D animations than to recycle hand-drawn ones for reasons that changing camera angles and pressing "render" is easier than having to draw the mech again, frame by frame, doing essentially the same thing. I do get why you suddenly call me an optimist, that statement I made was rashly written.

Peace