Battlestar Galactica Discussion III

[RedWolf]

When old men have a fist fight...it's always the model ships that suffer.

Please...think of the model ships.

For a moment there I thought I heard Science and Cat girls.

[Gubaba]

Well...they found earth.

I think I'll just nip off and slit my wrists now.

[RedWolf]

Well...they found earth.

I think I'll just nip off and slit my wrists now.

Please it gets more depressing.

[Gubaba]

Please it gets more depressing.

Oh, I'm sure it does. Y'know, even EXPECTING earth to be "dead," I found that final scene to be quite shocking. But it seems like a Galactica rule that anytime anyone seems happy for more than 30 seconds (or they spend more than 30 seconds establishing something "routine," be it a Raptor mission, Viper training, maintenance work, anything), then something terrible is going to happen immediately afterwards.

My DVD Provider mentioned last night that there were more webisodes to watch before I went on to 4.5, but she also mentioned that they weren't on the DVD. Anyone know what gives...?

[RedWolf]

My DVD Provider mentioned last night that there were more webisodes to watch before I went on to 4.5, but she also mentioned that they weren't on the DVD. Anyone know what gives...?

In my opnion "The Face of the Enemy" is not that required for the half of season 4. As it focuses on one character. Well that one character will be significant for the next arc. But its not that hard to figure that one character out if you watch the first half of the season.

[Gubaba]

In my opnion "The Face of the Enemy" is not that required for the half of season 4. As it focuses on one character. Well that one character will be significant for the next arc. But its not that hard to figure that one character out if you watch the first half of the season.

It wouldn't happen to be the guy who mysteriously started singing, would it...?

By the way...any truth to the spoilers presented here?

[RedWolf]

It wouldn't happen to be the guy who mysteriously started singing, would it...?

No

By the way...any truth to the spoilers presented here?

Some of them are spoilers. I won't mention which.

[Gubaba]

Some of them are spoilers. I won't mention which.

So there is a good chance we'll see Tigh naked, huh?

[eugimon]

So there is a good chance we'll see Tigh naked, huh?

more than a good chance. Let's just say you'll be thankful for bill's model ship.

[Gubaba]

more than a good chance. Let's just say you'll be thankful for bill's model ship.

By the way...it seemed that the model ship destroyed in Adama and Tigh's fistfight seemed...cheaper...than the one Adama smashed up in Season 3.

Oh...and I'm downloading "Face of the Enemy" right now.

I kind of want the Season 4.0 to sink in a little bit before moving on to 4.5.

With the earth being found, but the Final Cylon unrevealed...I really have no idea where the show's going to go next. I'm curretly wondering about how many Twos and Sixes and Eights they have to help them out...and if there are basestars populated with Tighs and Tories and Sams and Galens.

It seems like everything's poised for a DYRL-style shootout over a destroyed earth (in fact, I half-expected the Prometheus to be among the wreckage )...but that wouldn't take ten episodes.

IY'know...after I finished Season 3, I had a sneaking feeling the Cylon would turn out to be Starbuck's mom. Now they seem to be hinting it's Gaeta, but if that's the case, it seems like they're making it a little too obvious, what with the aforementioned singing.

For a few seconds, I totally believed Deanna when she told Roslin that she (Roslin) was a Cylon.

To the writers' credit, they may be making up everything as they go along, but it sure doesn't FEEL like that anymore. Season 3 was seeming a little sketchy towards the end, as though they were throwing balls in the air and thinking, "We'll figure out how to catch them later." But the first half of Season 4 has felt very assured, smooth, and confident.

I went back to the beginning of this thread and read the first few pages (SHAME ON ALL OF YOU WHO HUNGERED FOR CALLIE'S DEATH! SHAME!!), and I guess I can see where, following it week by week, it seemed like not a lot was happening...but for me, viewing Season 4.0 together over two days, it all works beautifully.

I also thought the article about the "Last Supper" picture that someone linked to was interesting...however, I can't believe the conclusion that the Final Cylon is either Starbuck or Apollo. (At least, I *think* that's what they concluded.) But no matter, the "Last Supper" picture itself is quite cool, so I snatched it. Not quite as iconic as the poster for the Sopranos Season...5, I believe...the one that showed all the characters who had died throughout the series, but cool nonetheless.

[Gubaba]

Oh...and one more thing: I skipped the extended version of "Unfinished Business" back in Season 3, which was apparently a mistake. Should I go for the extended versions in Season 4.5? Or stick to the broadcast versions?

[eugimon]

Oh...and one more thing: I skipped the extended version of "Unfinished Business" back in Season 3, which was apparently a mistake. Should I go for the extended versions in Season 4.5? Or stick to the broadcast versions?

yeah, watch the extended versions of all the episodes. There's lots of character stuff that gets cut

[jenius]

I've never seen the unextended version of the last episode... but the extended version felt way long and a bit boring...

[Gubaba]

I've never seen the unextended version of the last episode... but the extended version felt way long and a bit boring...

Hmmm...I'll probably watch the extended cut first, and then at some later point watch the televised version.

And I went ahead and watched Face of the Enemy, which I found a bit...puzzling. The problem is that I had to watch the interrogation scene with Baltar a few times before I could make out what Baltar said: "I know what your Eight did." Does this mean that Gaeta KNEW she was executing people? Or just that he suspected it, but refused to face it?

And, um...Gaeta's bi? For some reason, I'm not surprised.

[RedWolf]

And, um...Gaeta's bi? For some reason, I'm not surprised.

Some would say Gaeta was pimp.

Everybody loves Gaeta...

[Dobber]

Sorry the "earth is dead" thing got spoiled for you, but there are still some big suprises comming a few in the next episode alone IIRC.

Chris

[David Hingtgen]

IMHO, the whole "Face of the enemy" thing was pretty pointless. The New Caprica webisodes were far better.

PS---yeah, dead earth still has a lot of big revelations to it.

[Gubaba]

Well THAT was a barnstormer of an episode...

And Az...I apologize for not believing you about Starbuck's death.

Anyway, yeah...a very bleak episode indeed, and A LOT that's massively mysterious and confusing. Looking forward to more.

[Gubaba]

I just watched "Disquiet Follows My Soul" (the extended version). Suddenly "The Face of the Enemy" makes a lot more sense, since Gaeta seems all hot and bothered and anti-Cylon now...which he didn't before.

Oh, and David Hingtgen was right as well...the reveal of the final Cylon last episode wasn't nearly as jaw-dropping as the second-to-last, third-to-last, fourth-to-last or fifth-to-last.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly WHEN all of this is taking place. We I was a kid, watching the old series, I misunderstood the basic premise of the show, and all the Egyptian-style helmets and everything led me to believe that the whole story was happening tens of thousands of years ago...so imagine my surprise when Galactica 1980 started.

Whereas this series...well, I'm assuming (big assumption) that the "earth" that they found is our earth (which means that we're all Cylons) but the earth people had Centurions (which we don't have and aren't even close to creating)...which would put the nuclear holocaust well into our future. And then the Galactica arrives 2000 years after that. Which would put the story somewhere around 4500 AD...

Meh. It'll probably turn out not to be of the slightest import by the end. And there are too many ifs and variables to try to make a calculation at this point.

I know I'm drawing ever closer to the end...and in a way, I don't want it to get to the finish: I'm enjoying the story too much (I have a lot of sympathy with Adama and his "favorite book," which he never finished. Especially when I'm reading something I really like, I'll often rush through most of the book, realize I'm almost done, and spend two weeks reading the last forty or fifty pages). On the other hand, I keep thinking "How much more pain and disappointment can these people take?" and I want it to finish just so their trials will all be over...one way or another.

Anyway, I'm going to try to take the last episodes slowly, and savor them. And then I'll probably go back and watch the commentary and the bonus features and all the extra jazz.

And at some point, I guess I need to see Caprica and The Plan. According to the Amazon.com reviews, The Plan is more-or-less a clips-show, right? If I go into it with that expectation, do you think I'll like it better than most people seem to...?

[eugimon]

If you stay up at night wondering what happened to the six that implicated baltar in season 1, who caprica six was talking to on caprica after she killed the baby, stuff like that, then there's enough in The Plan to keep you happy.

It basically plays as a loose series of cut and extended seasons through the first few seasons loosely tied together by a character study on brother cavil.

[HoveringCheesecake]

The Plan was a huge disappointment for me. It isn't terrible, but I preferred the ambiguity that the series itself left to all of the actions that Cavil had the different Cylons carry out.

[eugimon]

Yeah, I agree, a lot of that stuff plays out a lot better when it's mysterious and really plays around with the idea of just what the cylons are and what the true nature of Head Six is. Revealing it all is a bit like finding out the wizard is just an old man behind the curtain.

[Gubaba]

Yeah, I agree, a lot of that stuff plays out a lot better when it's mysterious and really plays around with the idea of just what the cylons are and what the true nature of Head Six is. Revealing it all is a bit like finding out the wizard is just an old man behind the curtain.

Hmmm...too bad. Because the Cylons ARE interesting, and there is probably an interesting story to be generated from the attack on the Colonies from their viewpoint...oh well.

So should I watch before I finish the series, then (to lessen the disappointment) or is it definitely something to be seen after?

[RedWolf]

And at some point, I guess I need to see Caprica and The Plan. According to the Amazon.com reviews, The Plan is more-or-less a clips-show, right? If I go into it with that expectation, do you think I\\\'ll like it better than most people seem to...?

On The Plan I suggest you wait till you watch \\\"No Exit\\\". Suffice to say a certain Cylon has issues.

The episodes you just watched establishes several things about Earth and Kobol.

- The 13th tribe were not a Kobolian human tribe but a Cylon Tribe. Genetically relatives of the current Cylons.

- Colonial Humans and Cylon Humans are not like us biologically. Colonial Humans are of A, B and AB blood types. Cylons are all O blood type.

- Earth was a colony. It is not our Earth. The 13th tribe only named it Earth. Why would they name it Earth?

- Earth was destroyed 2000 years ago the same time the Colonials ancestors left Kobol. Kobol supposedly suffered a war during the exodus.

- Earth has its own Centurions. Does this mean what happened to the Colonies, a Centurion revolt, happened to the 13th Tribe? Centuries before Centurions were created on the Colonies. (Caprica) Thus the mantra \\\"This has happened before and will happen again\\\" come to mind.

- As hinted by the Hybrid earlier this season the Final Five are from Earth. Here Tigh, Galen Sam, Tory and Ellen were survivors of a genocide of their civilization. Those five had access to Resurrection technology. Which brings to question if this is related to Kara\\\'s resurrection. Also why the Final Five do not remember their lives on Earth? (Note that RDM always said the Final Five were fundamentally different from the Signicant 7 models.)

- In Razor the First Hybrid said Kara Thrace will lead humanity to its end. Is this it?

[Gubaba]

On The Plan I suggest you wait till you watch "No Exit". Suffice to say a certain Cylon has issues.

Hmmm...maybe I'll wait until just before "Daybreak" to watch it. I don't have it yet, so maybe next week I'll saunter down to the video store and get it (and I might as well get "Caprica," while I'm at it).

The episodes you just watched establishes several things about Earth and Kobol.

- The 13th tribe were not a Kobolian human tribe but a Cylon Tribe. Genetically relatives of the current Cylons.

- Colonial Humans and Cylon Humans are not like us biologically. Colonial Humans are of A, B and AB blood types. Cylons are all O blood type.

- Earth was a colony. It is not our Earth. The 13th tribe only named it Earth. Why would they name it Earth?

- Earth was destroyed 2000 years ago the same time the Colonials ancestors left Kobol. Kobol supposedly suffered a war during the exodus.

- Earth has its own Centurions. Does this mean what happened to the Colonies, a Centurion revolt, happened to the 13th Tribe? Centuries before Centurions were created on the Colonies. (Caprica) Thus the mantra "This has happened before and will happen again" come to mind.

- As hinted by the Hybrid earlier this season the Final Five are from Earth. Here Tigh, Galen Sam, Tory and Ellen were survivors of a genocide of their civilization. Those five had access to Resurrection technology. Which brings to question if this is related to Kara's resurrection. Also why the Final Five do not remember their lives on Earth? (Note that RDM always said the Final Five were fundamentally different from the Signicant 7 models.)

- In Razor the First Hybrid said Kara Thrace will lead humanity to its end. Is this it?

Some of that seems like information I didn't glean from the episodes...am I supposed to know all of that yet?

Or else perhaps it's all part of speculation that comes from watching the show week-by-week. It's kind of akin to looking at trees in a forest while walking down the road at three miles per hour, versus looking at the same trees while driving down the road at sixty. With a week (or weeks, or months) between new episodes, it gives everyone time to sit back, rewatch the same episodes again and again, and soak in all the information you can find (as most of us posting in this thread did with Macross Frontier). But for me, I'm watching each episode once, and then directly on to the next one. earlier this week, I found Battlestar Wiki, but as it says "spoilers are to be expected," I've used it only sparingly...and even then, only for the original series and Galactica 1980 (The "Questions" section for the original series episodes are flat-out hysterical).

So, in other words, your list of "things to think about" is miles beyond where I am, with only a surface view of each episode (or maybe a little more, since I like to think of myself as a reasonably smart and attentive viewer), and the puzzle still unfinished, so to speak, since I'm not at the end yet. As such, I'll put off wondering where the story's going to go and what questions it will answer or not answer, and just let everything unfold until the end. And then I'll sit back and try to figure out what it all means.

[David Hingtgen]

I think the middle chunk was a spoiler. It can certainly be guessed at, but not confirmed until later. Don't know if I got to it before Gubaba saw it (he was listed as viewing the topic)

::Edit:: Gah, no he saw it.

Yeesh, people, quit spoiling Gubaba!

::edit 2:: Actually there were even more spoilers.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/No_Exit That's where a lot of that stuff is revealed, and that's like 3-4 eps ahead of where Gubaba is. (Gubaba, don't click that link)

[RedWolf]

Some of that seems like information I didn't glean from the episodes...am I supposed to know all of that yet?

If you paid attention and took notes yes.

Take what Galen said about transfusing his "son" Nikki with Cylon blood and Doc Cottle saying it is not nescessary. While Hera was able to provide a temporary cancer cure for Roslin suggests blood compatibility.

O type blood is the universal blood type as anybody can recieve it. A, B and AB blood wont do for those with O blood type. This suggest an anomaly in the genome of the Colonials and Cylons. I speculated then that Colonials and Cylon models are not as human as they think they are.

Also earlier this season the rebel basestar Hybrid said as a bombshell among its ramblings that the Final Five were of Earth.

Here we discover the Final Five used to live on Earth and experienced a nuclear holocaust. And they have their own Centurions though they look like with samurai helmets. 2000 year old Centurions before the First Cylon War Model-005 Centurions seen on Razor.

The real mystery here is Starbuck. Kara is not one of the Final Five then what is she?

[David Hingtgen]

RedWolf--Gubaba has not seen the big "Ellen" episode. That's like 3 eps ahead. He's only seen the little 30-sec memory flashback where Saul says Ellen's the one. Nothing beyond that is known, especially the whole

2000-year journey, resurrection tech

, etc. I think you think he's further than he is. Ellen has not had her big

"history of the cylons"

speech.

[RedWolf]

No Exit is where it finally gets explained... Almost. But Gubaba has seen and heard the dialogue of the first two eps of season 4.5. He hasn't been spoiled yet.

Edited December 26, 2009 by RedWolf

[azrael]

Whereas this series...well, I'm assuming (big assumption) that the "earth" that they found is our earth (which means that we're all Cylons) but the earth people had Centurions (which we don't have and aren't even close to creating)...which would put the nuclear holocaust well into our future. And then the Galactica arrives 2000 years after that. Which would put the story somewhere around 4500 AD...

Anything we say will probably ruin it so I'll just say, KEEP WATCHING but there's a little from column A, column B, and column C. What those columns are...well, you'll find out.

Meh. It'll probably turn out not to be of the slightest import by the end. And there are too many ifs and variables to try to make a calculation at this point.

Keep watching.

And at some point, I guess I need to see Caprica and The Plan. According to the Amazon.com reviews, The Plan is more-or-less a clips-show, right? If I go into it with that expectation, do you think I'll like it better than most people seem to...?

Caprica's pilot episode is on Hulu so you can catch it there, then come join us here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=18847

And there's nothing you really need to carry over from BSG to Caprica.

[eugimon]

Hmmm...too bad. Because the Cylons ARE interesting, and there is probably an interesting story to be generated from the attack on the Colonies from their viewpoint...oh well.

So should I watch before I finish the series, then (to lessen the disappointment) or is it definitely something to be seen after?

Depends. I think the brother cavil stuff can enhance the last episode if you see it before hand but if not, watch it after.

[Gubaba]

I've decided I'm going to stop reading this thread. I'll keep posting in it, but I'm not going to read what anyone else says until after I'm done.

I'm gonna try to limit myself to one episode per day (We'll see how long that lasts), which means I'll be done in 9 or 10 days (depending on if I toss Caprica into the mix as well...which I probably will).

So yeah...all done for today. Tomorrow: "The Oath."

[Wanzerfan]

I just watched "Disquiet Follows My Soul" (the extended version). Suddenly "The Face of the Enemy" makes a lot more sense, since Gaeta seems all hot and bothered and anti-Cylon now...which he didn't before.

Oh, and David Hingtgen was right as well...the reveal of the final Cylon last episode wasn't nearly as jaw-dropping as the second-to-last, third-to-last, fourth-to-last or fifth-to-last.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly WHEN all of this is taking place. We I was a kid, watching the old series, I misunderstood the basic premise of the show, and all the Egyptian-style helmets and everything led me to believe that the whole story was happening tens of thousands of years ago...so imagine my surprise when Galactica 1980 started.

Whereas this series...well, I'm assuming (big assumption) that the "earth" that they found is our earth (which means that we're all Cylons) but the earth people had Centurions (which we don't have and aren't even close to creating)...which would put the nuclear holocaust well into our future. And then the Galactica arrives 2000 years after that. Which would put the story somewhere around 4500 AD...

Meh. It'll probably turn out not to be of the slightest import by the end. And there are too many ifs and variables to try to make a calculation at this point.

I know I'm drawing ever closer to the end...and in a way, I don't want it to get to the finish: I'm enjoying the story too much (I have a lot of sympathy with Adama and his "favorite book," which he never finished. Especially when I'm reading something I really like, I'll often rush through most of the book, realize I'm almost done, and spend two weeks reading the last forty or fifty pages). On the other hand, I keep thinking "How much more pain and disappointment can these people take?" and I want it to finish just so their trials will all be over...one way or another.

Anyway, I'm going to try to take the last episodes slowly, and savor them. And then I'll probably go back and watch the commentary and the bonus features and all the extra jazz.

And at some point, I guess I need to see Caprica and The Plan. According to the Amazon.com reviews, The Plan is more-or-less a clips-show, right? If I go into it with that expectation, do you think I'll like it better than most people seem to...?

I thought the original series was set far into the future, since during one episode the Galactica picked up a faded transmission of the Apollo 11 Eagle lunar landing. Then 1980 came, and well...

[Gubaba]

Clearly, this "one episode a day" thing isn't going to work...I just watched "The Oath," and...um, Roslin said it best: "Felix Gaeta...who would've thought?"

When he took over CIC, I wanted to reach through the TV screen and strangle him myself. Adama's rage is palpable, and I can totally feel it. At this point, I'd love to see both Gaeta and Zarek thrown out the airlock. It's too bad, 'cause I really liked Gaeta for a long time (his interview with Deanna for her "documentary," was the first time I thought, "Wow, this guy's funny." And then helping the resistance on New Caprica...hell, I even understood it when he tried to kill Baltar), but this is just...too much. And I hope Helo gets to put a bullet in the head of the guy who's threatening to rape Athena.

Anyway, I feel for you guys having to wait a week to find out what happened next... I'm going to put off watching the next episode as long as I can, but I'll probably watch it before the night is done.

[Gubaba]

For most of BSG, I really had sympathy for all that Gaeta went through.

Now, I'm hoping that someone puts him down and makes him suffer while doing so.

I hate waiting an entire week!

I second this motion.