Duke Togo Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Come on, Baltar just came up with the music metaphor (the one that would sway Tory) by chance? Yes Number Six just happened to figure out on her own that Tigh killed his wife? That he killed his wife isn't exactly a secret. I'd have to watch the scene again, but like Baltar and Tory, there is a good chance what she was talking about and what Tigh thought she was talking about are two different things.
Roger Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) That he killed his wife isn't exactly a secret.At the least, there was one person who definitely would have known about it (Anders) and another person Tigh may have confided in (Adama). Even if many people knew, though, why would it have been discussed with a cylon prisoner? Remember, the scene took place before Baltar's trial and the circumstances of Ellen's death became public record. Check out: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Cylon-Re..._Hallucinations Edited April 30, 2008 by Roger
Duke Togo Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) Well, until we hear otherwise, I'm sticking with the official line on this. And I am 100% sure the Baltar/Tory scenes where meant to be taken as Tory looking for answers about her existence, and seeing more meaning in what Baltar was saying than was his actual intent. She is so moved because, wow, this guy understands me, he knows me, this all makes sense to me... when really it was just the usual rambling nonsense from Baltar. Edited April 30, 2008 by Duke Togo
Roger Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Well, until we hear otherwise, I'm sticking with the official line on this.I think the "official line" should be what you see and hear on the screen, not what the show's creators (who have a vested interest in keeping you watching and playing their cards as close to the vest as possible) say in interviews. After all, if Moore and Eick were 100% upfront, honest, and truthful and answered every question as completely as possible, then there'd be no point in watching the show to see what happens, would there? They're either lying to us, or they've changed their minds since they were asked the questions. Either scenario is forgivable, I just want the story to work. I still want explanations for the following, though, eventually: 1) How did Anders, a cylon, get pneumonia? 2) How did Athena get all of Boomer's memories?
Roger Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 She is so moved because, wow, this guy understands me, he knows me, this all makes sense to me... when really it was just the usual rambling nonsense from Baltar.Yes, but it just happened to be the exact type of nonsense that would catch her attention. It's a similar situation to the cylons who hang on every words the the hybrids utter. And as we've seen, they've been correct about certain things, too. There has to be something more to it. If there isn't, then the writers have really been wasting our time putting these puzzle pieces in front of us for five years.
Duke Togo Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) There has to be something more to it. If there isn't, then the writers have really been wasting our time putting these puzzle pieces in front of us for five years. You do realize they've totally changed direction with this show more than once, right? They admitted early on they had no idea where they were going with things. I think in this case, you have fallen for the same ramblings from Baltar that Tory did. And we have discussed many times before about Moore and Co saying one thing, and then doing exactly the opposite. I always like to point to the "we won't destroy the Pegasus, just because everyone expects us to" stuff Moore was pushing for a while. Could the "mental break" line they've been toting forever be BS? Sure. But that's the only explanation we have right now. Personally, I don't want to give Baltar credit for anything. In my mind, there can be no greater end to his storyline when the final curtain comes down than him realizing he's a total fool, a coward, and in the end, really nothing special. He's nothing more than a weak and pathetic man. Edited April 30, 2008 by Duke Togo
Roger Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Personally, I don't want to give Baltar credit for anything. In my mind, there can be no greater end to his storyline when the final curtain comes down than him realizing he's a total fool, a coward, and in the end, really nothing special. He's nothing more than a weak and pathetic man.Or, he's the Finger of God, who has so far been the central figure in causing the deaths of billions of humans, the subsequent exodus of the survivors, and the splintering of the cylon race in order to move both species through the next cycle of whatever their destiny is. I think the show gives us more evidence for the latter than the former.
Duke Togo Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Or, he's the Finger of God, who has so far been the central figure in causing the deaths of billions of humans, the subsequent exodus of the survivors, and the splintering of the cylon race in order to move both species through the next cycle of whatever their destiny is. I think the show gives us more evidence for the latter than the former. All of these things happened because he is a weak and pathetic human being. These are not things he set out to do. "The Tool of God" may be more like it, with an emphasis on "tool".
eugimon Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Or, he's the Finger of God, who has so far been the central figure in causing the deaths of billions of humans, the subsequent exodus of the survivors, and the splintering of the cylon race in order to move both species through the next cycle of whatever their destiny is. I think the show gives us more evidence for the latter than the former. or it could be a slam on religious folk who in coincidence are able to see design by doing all sorts of mental gymnastics. People tend to see order in chaos, our brains are wired for it.
Duke Togo Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) or it could be a slam on religious folk who in coincidence are able to see design by doing all sorts of mental gymnastics. People tend to see order in chaos, our brains are wired for it. Yeah, pretty much. I'm fairly well convinced nothing that has happened or will happen is because of some sort of divine influence or intervention. It has all happened before, and it will all happen again. This is the work of man, but in my mind, the big question is are any of these people really human, as we are? Humans create Cylons, Cylons drive humans out, become humans. These humans create Cylons, the Cylons drive them out, and they become human, etc... This is how I've seen it for a while now. But as Katee Sackhoff said in a recent interview, they are getting to the end of the series, and just when you thought you had it all figured out, they throw you for a complete loop. We could all be WAY off base. Edited April 30, 2008 by Duke Togo
chowyunskinny Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 We could all be WAY off base. So Say We All
Wes Posted May 2, 2008 Posted May 2, 2008 So now you can only see a 10min "preview" instead of the entire episode streaming...
Duke Togo Posted May 3, 2008 Posted May 3, 2008 I'm even more confused after this weeks episode. No idea where they are going with this.
ssfsx17 Posted May 3, 2008 Posted May 3, 2008 - Baltar is now Chief's only friend? What will happen when Chief finds out the truth behind Cally's death? That just might be enough to make him really pull the trigger next time. - Apparently, the word is now out that Tigh visits Number 6 often. What is Adama going to do about it? - Whose side is Anders going to take? Who gets killed next time? Argghhhh, can't wait till next episode!!!
Wes Posted May 3, 2008 Posted May 3, 2008 I'm even more confused after this weeks episode. No idea where they are going with this. It just seems to be all setup. Disappointing, but it might be important. Is it just me, or does this remind anyone else about the original BSG episode where Baltar tries to con them into heading to the Cylon homeworld to hit them once and for all? Yeah the preview killed that idea but that's what was running thru my head while watching this.
Duke Togo Posted May 3, 2008 Posted May 3, 2008 Well, I REALLY got lost when the Hybrid tole Starbuck she would lead the fleet to their death. For a few years I've had it all set in my mind, the humans creating Cylons thing is a never ending cycle. This has all happened before, and it will all happen again, etc. All humans were originally Cylon, you get the idea. I was so convinced of this, thought I had it all figured out. Now, I don't know what to think.
Skullsixx Posted May 3, 2008 Posted May 3, 2008 Well, I REALLY got lost when the Hybrid tole Starbuck she would lead the fleet to their death. For a few years I've had it all set in my mind, the humans creating Cylons thing is a never ending cycle. This has all happened before, and it will all happen again, etc. All humans were originally Cylon, you get the idea. I was so convinced of this, thought I had it all figured out. Now, I don't know what to think. That's called good writing...
Alpha OTS Posted May 3, 2008 Posted May 3, 2008 It just seems to be all setup. Disappointing, but it might be important. These last few episodes have been all setup. We need some payoff because it seems they're revisiting the same themes a bit too often. Yes, the four are changing, and yes, Starbuck continues to prove herself crazy and untrustworthy, and yes, Baltar's loving his messiah harem schtick. Apart from that, the only new thing was Leoben, and he didn't change the story that much(the humans are aware of the cylon civil war now and Starbuck needs a hybrid to find earth). It's good, but it's going too slow. I was hoping for more Cylon perspectives of things. Story wise it probably is best for realistic tension, and retrospectively will probably have been a wise decision, but I really need a skirmish or for something to really snap. Getting back to Starbuck. She's done *nothing* to show herself trustworthy since coming back to Galactica. She doesn't even pretend to acknowledge military procedure and communication except only after she's burned all bridges that might have respected her command. A simple report back to the Demtrius about Leoben's ship rather than babbling about a vision would have helped restore much needed faith in her leadership and cause. But as is, everyone's reaction is perfectly reasonable to her irrational command. If it weren't for Helo, they would have mutinied a long time earlier. He's the one person aboard the Demitrius that *gets* the whole vision thing having seen her original drawing, but her craziness has gone over the amount of leeway he was willing to give her.
chowyunskinny Posted May 4, 2008 Posted May 4, 2008 (edited) That's called good writing... I don't know man, I still love the show but I think the writing has become a bit disjointed. For example, seeing Helo and Athena both aboard the Demetrius made me wonder, "where the hell is their kid and who's watching Hera?" Back in Season 2 when she was conceived, she seemed to be (at the time) an important part of the story, being the first offspring of a Human and a Cylon. Her lineage was made less unique when they made Chief a cylon because his child with Cally was a hybrid as well. Last thing I remember with Hera was she was on the basestar and had a tummy ache or something. I wonder if they are going to come back to the importance of Hera, or Chief's kid or if they kind of just dropped that storyline because they wrote themselves into a corner. Maybe they'll flash forward and we'll see an older Hera who has embraced her cylon heritage and renounced her human side and Nicky has done the opposite. Edited May 4, 2008 by chowyunskinny
azrael Posted May 4, 2008 Posted May 4, 2008 The podcast for episode 404 and 405 are up so maybe there's something in RDM's podcast that we should know.
Duke Togo Posted May 4, 2008 Posted May 4, 2008 Back in Season 2 when she was conceived, she seemed to be (at the time) an important part of the story, being the first offspring of a Human and a Cylon. They've changed the "end game" more than once, and for a long while, didn't even have one. I would not be surprised if Hera didn't end up playing much of a role at all when all is said and done. Then again, she may play a significant one. I really have no idea at this point.
dreamweaver13 Posted May 5, 2008 Posted May 5, 2008 i still love this show, but it doesn't feel as cohesive anymore. or it doesn't feel like the same galactica i've been watching the past 4 seasons. i mean, whats BSG without a cylon attack every now and then? sure, there are now 4 secret cylons on board, but does that have to be the be-all and end-all of this season? i think the entire first part of the season will just be a set up for the end. the last episode of season 3 was just so climactic that anything short of an arrival to the SOL system would just be uneventful. in terms of the plot factually moving for real, the last 5 episodes will be the REAL season 4, i think. i hope i'm wrong, and that things start really moving again when the rebel cylons join the main fleet.
azrael Posted May 5, 2008 Posted May 5, 2008 i still love this show, but it doesn't feel as cohesive anymore. or it doesn't feel like the same galactica i've been watching the past 4 seasons. i mean, whats BSG without a cylon attack every now and then? sure, there are now 4 secret cylons on board, but does that have to be the be-all and end-all of this season? i think the entire first part of the season will just be a set up for the end. the last episode of season 3 was just so climactic that anything short of an arrival to the SOL system would just be uneventful. in terms of the plot factually moving for real, the last 5 episodes will be the REAL season 4, i think. i hope i'm wrong, and that things start really moving again when the rebel cylons join the main fleet. We can't have a dogfight every episode now... Best thing is to just let this story arc run its course.
Fatalist Posted May 6, 2008 Posted May 6, 2008 I need to rewatch the episode. Had too many interruptions and I know I missed a lot.
dreamweaver13 Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 The next 2 episodes are supposed to be real mutha's! that's actually what i thought abut the episode that just finished. with all the hype coming from the previews about a mutiny and a human-cylon alliance, i really thought the plot would move forward. but jeez, they spent the entire episode still delving on tyrol's psychosis and baltar's messianic tendencies, that the actual mutiny didn't even take place until the very last minute. again ending with the promise of a next smoldering episode. i'm hoping it's for real this time. which brings me back to the idea that BSG is just coasting until it gets to the last 4 or 5 episodes where the plot will really start moving.
marimba Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 I dunno...I think that in the end the 2 hybrid children will be dropped off on earth to become Adam and Eve like figures. The other cylons and humans destroy each other. The children start an entirely new human race which eventually creates Cylons and the entire process begins over again.
Duke Togo Posted May 7, 2008 Posted May 7, 2008 I dunno...I think that in the end the 2 hybrid children will be dropped off on earth to become Adam and Eve like figures. The other cylons and humans destroy each other. The children start an entirely new human race which eventually creates Cylons and the entire process begins over again. Not a bad idea, but the kids are far too young to survive on their own, and it doesn't answer the question of the 13th colony and those who have come before.
dreamweaver13 Posted May 8, 2008 Posted May 8, 2008 Not a bad idea, but the kids are far too young to survive on their own, and it doesn't answer the question of the 13th colony and those who have come before. yup, i agree. and it doesn't explain bob dylan either.
the white drew carey Posted May 8, 2008 Posted May 8, 2008 yup, i agree. and it doesn't explain bob dylan either. Nothing can explain Bob Dylan...
Axelay Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 I dunno...I think that in the end the 2 hybrid children will be dropped off on earth to become Adam and Eve like figures. The other cylons and humans destroy each other. The children start an entirely new human race which eventually creates Cylons and the entire process begins over again. If they pull a Gall Force on us, I'm going to be severely disappointed.
Daigoro Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 (edited) I dunno...I think that in the end the 2 hybrid children will be dropped off on earth to become Adam and Eve like figures. The other cylons and humans destroy each other. The children start an entirely new human race which eventually creates Cylons and the entire process begins over again. The "two space travellers turn out to be Adam and Eve" story is one of the oldest and most despised cliches in _written_ science fiction. The first stories (well, at least the first we know of) were written in the FORTIES. The idea was a horrible cliche by the 60's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_God_story I enjoyed Gall Force, but laughed in disbelief at the ending. Edited May 9, 2008 by Daigoro
Duke Togo Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 I don't think we have to worry about that, they've already established the journey the 13th colony made to Earth. Someone has already been there.
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