Vifam7 Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Perhaps it's another example of Murphy's Law? - Never forget that your weapon is made by the lowest bidder. PW may have had the lower bid. Or maybe the Pentagon simply wants PW to stay in business because everyone else in the world wants/uses GE engines on U.S. aircraft. [shrug]
Apollo Leader Posted July 14, 2008 Author Posted July 14, 2008 Pretty sure it's vintage. Sorta on-topic: Iran photoshopped their missile launch: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/1...many/index.html
Apollo Leader Posted July 14, 2008 Author Posted July 14, 2008 Perhaps it's another example of Murphy's Law? - Never forget that your weapon is made by the lowest bidder. PW may have had the lower bid. Or maybe the Pentagon simply wants PW to stay in business because everyone else in the world wants/uses GE engines on U.S. aircraft. [shrug] If a bunch of money has to be spent ironing out Pratt & Whitney's troubled engine, then it would no longer be the lowest bidder (or I should say being the lowest bidder early on would be a mute point). One exception I can think of to this rule was the B-2. Lockheed's B-2 design was suppose to cost quite a bit less then Northrop's design, but Northrop's design beat the Lockheed design in nearly every area (stealth, range, payload, etc.) and the Air Force (SAC) went with the later.
F-ZeroOne Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 "Chaps? Hello? Rolls-Royce here? We built the Pegasus, the engine that powered the only other successful S/VTOL fighter in the World? You know? The blokes you're not returning calls from? I say? Hello?"
David Hingtgen Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 GE partnered with RR for the F136's lift-fan, another reason why it's probably doing better...
F-ZeroOne Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 I know, I wasn't trying to imply its an all-British project, just looking at it from a humourous British point-of-view.
David Hingtgen Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Like F-14's? Like funny stories? Then you can spend HOURS reading the Hoser chronicles: http://www.tomcat-sunset.org/forums/index.php?topic=2441.0
F-ZeroOne Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Heh. That one reminds me of a story somewhere about some pilots on actual operations that did the same thing (put out fake radio calls to make it look like their formation was larger than it was), but I can't remember the details, not even which war though it might have been during the Battle of Britain...
buddhafabio Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 b2 crash earlier this year explained......pilot error. \ http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/ai...ce/4273248.html
David Hingtgen Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 How is it pilot error? Nothing I've read indicates that. If anything it was "bad procedures".
David Hingtgen Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Probably the highest-quality online footage of the F-22 so far: (Farnborough demo) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7510364.stm Of course, like most videos---zoomed in too close to actually tell the motion. 2:04 is a "vectored loop" but hard to realize, 2:56 is a tailslide.
David Hingtgen Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 F-22 drops first SDB supersonically: http://www.edwards.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123107101 USN Hornet shortage even worse than thought, Boeing gives unsolicited offer for additional 170 Shornets at discount: http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0708/071808cdpm2.htm First female Shornet demo pilot (no pic, sorry): http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/o...airshowweb.html
Dante74 Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Probably the highest-quality online footage of the F-22 so far: (Farnborough demo) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7510364.stm Of course, like most videos---zoomed in too close to actually tell the motion. 2:04 is a "vectored loop" but hard to realize, 2:56 is a tailslide. I had to go look for my jaw after watching that video... Why do modern jets need to be THAT manouvrable anyway? It's not like they ever engage in dogfights anymore, or do they?
VF-19 Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I had to go look for my jaw after watching that video... Why do modern jets need to be THAT manouvrable anyway? It's not like they ever engage in dogfights anymore, or do they? True, they don't often engage in dogfights anymore, but you'd want the manouverability if you have some young hotshot on your six and he's revving up his vulcan. That, and it may come at an advantage in BVR engagements; perhaps to fool the missile into missing. Besides, it just looks cool to see planes move in ways they shouldn't!
Coota0 Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I It's not like they ever engage in dogfights anymore, or do they? That's what they said when jets were introduced and when missiles were introduced to aviation, but there were still close in fights.
David Hingtgen Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Rules of engagement often negate the use of anything with decent range. And even with "visual confirmation"---friendly fire happens.
Apollo Leader Posted July 21, 2008 Author Posted July 21, 2008 How is it pilot error? Nothing I've read indicates that. If anything it was "bad procedures". That's the first time I've read that one of the pilots had run the heaters for the pitots fixing the real problem, but a maintenance guys's ealier fix ended up causing more problems. Obviously there was a communications problem here that is at fault, not neccessarily a fault on anyone's behalf unless the cround crew guy didn't follow proper procedure in notifying anyone about his correction. But regardless, 19 years (as of a few days ago) of flying the B-2 finally created the right circumstance to bring one down.
Apollo Leader Posted July 21, 2008 Author Posted July 21, 2008 Probably the highest-quality online footage of the F-22 so far: (Farnborough demo) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7510364.stm Of course, like most videos---zoomed in too close to actually tell the motion. 2:04 is a "vectored loop" but hard to realize, 2:56 is a tailslide. I've been reading up again on the early days of the ATF program. Since Lockheed was stuck with faceting for stealth aircraft until the mid 80's, one of their earliest ATF concepts was practically a larger F-117 with afterburning engines. It would have been marginally supersonic and a hog of a plane to fly. Watching that video above makes me think how far along Lockheed came along in marrying stealth with a fast, highly maneauverable fighter and making it a reality. Speaking of the F-22, an F-22 is suppose to be on static display at the Offutt Air Show this year! http://www.offuttairshow.com/
buddhafabio Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 humm i wonder what we are going to do with homestead http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/eur...bers_on_Cuba%22
David Hingtgen Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 The last daisy cutter has been dropped: (was not used to attack Shin Kudo) http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123107470
Lindem Herz Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 humm i wonder what we are going to do with homestead http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/eur...bers_on_Cuba%22 What the hell is this, Command & Conquer Red Alert 2: Real Life edition?
eugimon Posted July 22, 2008 Posted July 22, 2008 What the hell is this, Command & Conquer Red Alert 2: Real Life edition? I have a pretty straightforward theory on what this is really about, but I'll keep it to myself, don't want to pull a ratchet.
Noyhauser Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 Thought you guys might like this article in the Financial Times on the F-22 vs the F-35... though the details might not all be new. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d7d3b01c-535f-11...0077b07658.html
doodler7 Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 hey guys, any of you thought about putting a 1/48 F-19 as a stealth drone on top of an 1/48 F-14 model kit? i've been thinking about it...what do you guys think?
badboy00z Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 What does the Japanese have as their latest hi tech fighter?
David Hingtgen Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 Tech-wise, the F-2A, which is a modified F-16.
badboy00z Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 I'm curious as to why Japan don't have anything more hi tech. I mean, they have all the cool new gadgets and electronics. They should've already have a YF-21 replica fighter. Lol.
Beltane70 Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 I'm curious as to why Japan don't have anything more hi tech. I mean, they have all the cool new gadgets and electronics. They should've already have a YF-21 replica fighter. Lol. It's probably due to the limitations put on the Japanese military after their surrender at the end of WW II.
Vifam7 Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 Tech-wise, the F-2A, which is a modified F-16. Aren't they considering to build their own stealth fighter? Particularly after purchase of F-22 was denied?
eugimon Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 It's probably due to the limitations put on the Japanese military after their surrender at the end of WW II. and contrary to the myth of war being good for the economy, building and fielding a large military is a signifcant money drain. As long as the USA is providing the bulk of their military protection, Japan is free to divert that money to other interests.
yellowlightman Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 and contrary to the myth of war being good for the economy, building and fielding a large military is a signifcant money drain. As long as the USA is providing the bulk of their military protection, Japan is free to divert that money to other interests. And yet Japan as the 5th largest military budget in the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...ry_expenditures
eugimon Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 And yet Japan as the 5th largest military budget in the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...ry_expenditures which is a tenth of what the USA spends. It's a big step from number 1 to number 2... considering all of the EU spends a little more than half of what the US spends. Referring back to the question of why Japan isn't fielding "high tech" homegrown fighters, consider this quote from wikipedia regarding the F-22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22_Raptor : By the time all 183 fighters have been purchased, $34 billion will have been spent on actual procurement, resulting in a total program cost of $62 billion or about $339 million per aircraft. The incremental cost for one additional F-22 is around $138 million;[4] decreasing with larger volumes. If the Air Force were to buy 100 more F-22s today, the cost of each one would be less and would continue to drop with additional aircraft purchases.[3] 62 billion dollars, or 14 billion dollars more than the entire Japanese military budget for 1 year. Or, little less than a 1/10th of the budget for American military expenditures for 1 year. So, other than nationalism and to quench fanboy desires for cool military aircraft, what reason does Japan have to invest that sort of money when they can just reap the benefits of America's investment?
Dante74 Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) I hope Ratchet chimes in soon... ::EDIT:: Just found out that the fool was banned. Good riddance. Edited July 24, 2008 by Dante74
eugimon Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) I hope Ratchet chimes in soon... ::EDIT:: Just found out that the fool was banned. Good riddance. Well, I'm not trying to make this a political discussion on the US military, just giving my 2cents on the question (rhetorical?) of why Japan isn't fielding homegrown fighters. Edited July 24, 2008 by eugimon
Noyhauser Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 which is a tenth of what the USA spends. It's a big step from number 1 to number 2... considering all of the EU spends a little more than half of what the US spends. Referring back to the question of why Japan isn't fielding "high tech" homegrown fighters, consider this quote from wikipedia regarding the F-22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22_Raptor : By the time all 183 fighters have been purchased, $34 billion will have been spent on actual procurement, resulting in a total program cost of $62 billion or about $339 million per aircraft. The incremental cost for one additional F-22 is around $138 million;[4] decreasing with larger volumes. If the Air Force were to buy 100 more F-22s today, the cost of each one would be less and would continue to drop with additional aircraft purchases.[3] 62 billion dollars, or 14 billion dollars more than the entire Japanese military budget for 1 year. Or, little less than a 1/10th of the budget for American military expenditures for 1 year. So, other than nationalism and to quench fanboy desires for cool military aircraft, what reason does Japan have to invest that sort of money when they can just reap the benefits of America's investment? Well Japan is in the market to get a new fighter to replace its aging F-4js... but its been putting off the decision for over a decade. The Air Force hasn't been a major priority for Japan in the past ten years, besides the ongoing F-2 and the Tanker project. First is the overall stagnant growth in Japanese economy, which has limited the government's ability to purchase big ticket items. Second, the Japanese military is facing a different drain on its budget: Operational missions. For the first time, the Defense Ministry needs to balance paying for combat operations in the Indian ocean and elsewhere with procurement. Finally, the airforce hasn't been the target of recapitalization to the extent the Navy has. The Navy is getting a whole slew of helicopter destroyers (And their helix), new destroyers and submarines. Moreover the government has invested heavily into Theater and National missile defence programs, which has put an even greater strain on the procurement budget. So for ten years the airforce has been forced to make do with the F-2 program. Since the F-4 decision can't be put off anymore, they are now shopping around for a replacement. With Congress refusing to sell the F-22 to Japan, it looks as if the Eurofighter might come into being as the next generation of Japan's air defence fighters.
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