Macross Frontier Episode 3 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[jenius]

I'm confused. What you are saying is, you'd prefer Kawamori just release a plot summary of the show with some cool mecha pictures? No need to go through this whole television series nonsense?

I think "Stay tuned for next week's episode" stuff should be stuff shown as the teaser after the credits... not forced into the dialogue. That whole scene is forced big time. Why is Alto there? He's not SMS, he's not Ozma's family, he's there because he needs to be. It's awkward. To then give Ozma THAT line is just too obvious. Did you expect to learn anything about the Varja in this episode after Ozma told you to tune in next week? No, you immediately know you're done learning about the Varja in this episode. Again, not a horrible episode, and I see why it had to play out the way it did, I'm just saying it's not exactly a great episode either. You don't have to agree.

[Duke Togo]

I think "Stay tuned for next week's episode" stuff should be stuff shown as the teaser after the credits... not forced into the dialogue. That whole scene is forced big time. Why is Alto there? He's not SMS, he's not Ozma's family, he's there because he needs to be. It's awkward. To then give Ozma THAT line is just too obvious. Did you expect to learn anything about the Varja in this episode after Ozma told you to tune in next week? No, you immediately know you're done learning about the Varja in this episode. Again, not a horrible episode, and I see why it had to play out the way it did, I'm just saying it's not exactly a great episode either. You don't have to agree.

The secet of the Varja isn't given away in the manga during the period of the next few episodes, so don't expect to learn it next week.

[Zinjo]

Oooh, I love it when you start talking dirty, Zinsexah. You saucy devil!

Well ya'll knows I does likes ma mecha pron...

Now, I demand more Obsequious Toady Badges in this thread

Sorry dude, wrong forum, you will have to go the the "forum that should not be named"...

[Gubaba]

I bow to thy would-be trollishness, for thou hath spoken as thine most hideous of toadies to be reckoned with. I bequeath to thee, thy Obsequious Toady Badges. Long may you curse the name Macross!

The sad truth is, I've seen people with that opinion on the net. Let's hope our sarcastic banter is all this message board ever sees of that kind of talk

"ACTING!!!"

"GENIUS!!"

*bows*

I've seen opinions like that, too...mostly criticizing MF for being "eye-candy." Which is strange, because eye-candy should be a good thing...it's eye candy WITH NO SUBSTANCE that's the problem. And, three episodes in, I think it's clear that MF has substance.

I guess the dedicated Shadow Chonicles fanatic* has to say to himself, "This looks like crap, therefore it must be good for me!" Just like brussels sprouts.

As for the mystery of the Vajra, I don't mind if it gets dragged out a bit But I do hope we at least laern SOMETHING about them before the halfway point...I mean, other than the fact that shooting them in the head doesn't work.

*I assume there's only one of you.

[farmer_yohei]

I'll tell you what will really piss me off if it happens in the next episode. Ozma says to Alto "hey want to know the secret of the Vajra?" "sure do," says Alto. Cut to another scene or a muted reaction shot of Alto as he (and not the audience) hears the secret, and then 22 episodes later we hear. If he tells Alto, we better find out. If not, it'll piss me off just like Lost does, and I could only watch 2 seasons of that before I just said screw it.

[Gubaba]

I'll tell you what will really piss me off if it happens in the next episode. Ozma says to Alto "hey want to know the secret of the Vajra?" "sure do," says Alto. Cut to another scene or a muted reaction shot of Alto as he (and not the audience) hears the secret, and then 22 episodes later we hear. If he tells Alto, we better find out. If not, it'll piss me off just like Lost does, and I could only watch 2 seasons of that before I just said screw it.

Hey, it'd be better than Ozma saying, "Okay, the truth about the Vajra is..." and then he has a heart attack and dies.

[Renato]

Anime Friend was a Korean animation company utilized to help animate the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross. As a low cost animation studio, their animation skills were notably inferior to that of Studio Nue and the Anime Friend episodes of the SDF Macross are infamous for poor animation quality and numerous animation errors. As such, the term "Anime Friend" is a running joke on this message board as an appropriate insult for the poor animation of other criticized anime.

EDIT: Whoops, beaten to the punch

Unfortunately, this is not entirely accurate information, as I have tried many times to explain but failed miserably to get through the "AnimeFriend Veil of Hatred" .

I am now even thinking of putting this up on the Compedium under the fallacies section now thaqt they've gone wiki wiki wild wild west.

OK, Anime Friend: They were not technically a Korean studio, they were a Japanese studio which collaborated with Tatsunoko to produce SDF Mac and DYRL (note: Studio Nue is not an actual animation studio, it is a design production agency). In fact, I believe Anime Friend employees were mostly people who had left Tatsunoko (much like Production IG today).

Now, these guys actually working in Anime Friend were by no means bad, or "couldn't draw" or anything like that. Take a look at some of the sourcebooks for Macross, particularly the TIAS ones and you can see a lot of their work (I'll give you page numbers next time if you want).

For example, the episodes where Ichiro Itano is doing the keyframes for the action scenes, it doesn't matter who the hell traces the final cel to be photographed (be it an Anime Friend or Tatsunoko or Studio bloody Ghibli), what matters is the Itano original image. That's all they have to do.

Now. WHY do some eps of Macross look so ugly? The answer is who was in charge of the keyframes and the art. AnimeFriend actually outsourced some of their work to another studio in Korea: Star Pro.

OK, everyone who knows a little bit of katakana, go check your SDF Macross DVDs: all the really bad episodes of Macross, beginning from the 3rd episode, have the "原画" (genga / keyframes), 動画 (douga / in-betweening),　仕上げ (shiage/finishing) credited as スタープロ　or STAR PRO at the end of the episode, as opposed to the name of the person in charge, like Mikimoto in episode 4, etc. Some sourcebooks even name the guy in charge at Star Pro, his name is Park something, I dunno.

So, Anime Friend was not the crappy studio that you all think it was, that was Star Pro. Though Anime Friend could be considered lazy because all they gave Star Pro to go on where the basic storyboards and stuff and said "go make this" without providing the keyframes themselves so I guess the blame falls on them anyway.

Whatever. Take a look at that ugly episode of Orguss, "My Factory". Its "style" is VERY reminiscent of the Max/Millia wedding episode so I'm sure it is Star Pro, though I haven't checked it, and I'm sure Anime Friend had nothing whatsoever to do with Orguss, it was Tokyo Movie Shinsha that were in charge of the animation.

OK, I think I ought to start my own thread about this.

[JB0]

Hey, it'd be better than Ozma saying, "Okay, the truth about the Vajra is..." and then he has a heart attack and dies.

Or "The truth about the Vajra is... they're pretty badass. And they kill stuff. Beyond that... who cares?"

[Project Phoenix]

Or "The truth about the Vajra is... they're pretty badass. And they kill stuff. Beyond that... who cares?"

Don't forget they look like mutant lobsters too.

[dreamweaver13]

hey renato thanks for this info. if this is true, i pity animefriend for all those years of shielding all that bad karma thrown at them by macross fans. haha.

as for the vajra...yes, there are 12 models. and they have a plan. haha.

[Aegis!]

I don't see how you can look at pictures of Stern and think its a chick. He doesn't look like one in the opening, and he doesn't look like one in the design sketch.

Well, it seems to me that the fact that the character has NO chest what-so-ever would be a glaring hint.

And before you say something about Ranka being the same way, HE looks a good bit older than her.

It seem you guys got used to Sheryl's Tuna buns a bit too much and forgot that not every girl is that lucky in the buns department, or you just haven't noticed them ( see Keyra Knightley for reference)

Until I see some official data on Brera Sterne's gender (there's no way that can be a guy's name) I'll just go by my own observations. I just don't see any evidence to the contrary.

[mike_s_6]

It seem you guys got used to Sheryl's Tuna buns a bit too much and forgot that not every girl is that lucky in the buns department, or you just haven't noticed them ( see Keyra Knightley for reference)

Until I see some official data on Brera Sterne's gender (there's no way that can be a guy's name) I'll just go by my own observations. I just don't see any evidence to the contrary.

Well if Brera is a he or a she, works the same way for me! I also thought that Brera is female, and the only reason I think she could be male is the voice actor. Which, as most have mentioned, could be a male voice actor performing as a girl.

Just curious, but does anyone recognize any female characters in Souichiro Hoshi's voice acting history?

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encycloped...ple.php?id=1374

I am only familiar with so few of what he's done

Edited April 22, 2008 by mike_s_6

[jenius]

Maybe the protoculture eventually became sexless?

[ackem]

It seem you guys got used to Sheryl's Tuna buns a bit too much and forgot that not every girl is that lucky in the buns department, or you just haven't noticed them ( see Keyra Knightley for reference)

Until I see some official data on Brera Sterne's gender (there's no way that can be a guy's name) I'll just go by my own observations. I just don't see any evidence to the contrary.

Well I figure several of the points you noted in the screencaps are because he is being marketed as a girly guy. I forget, but wasn't an image of him shown somewhere in the decultured edition saying that he was some sort of idol? Anyways I think the fact that he's voiced by Houshi Souichirou makes the likelihood that he's a guy pretty much 100%. As for his name, I'm not so sure that you can use odd names as evidence for or against when you're talking about anime

P.S. I don't think any of the men in Frontier have Adam's apples

[Graham]

I was immediately gonna jump on the bandwagon and say Brera Sterne must be guy, but after looking at Aegis's picture analysis, I'm not so sure any more.

Graham

[Vegas]

she's definitely female

[Radd]

Anything to make you guys feel better.

[Morpheus]

she's definitely female

Yes, he looks like female (points at Vegas Valkyrie avatar)

[mike_s_6]

Definitely female in this photo, would any guy be caught wearing pants that low?

Maybe Brera Sterne is not he or she, but an "it". Just kidding.

[Zinjo]

Dude, Shadow Chronicles is WAAAY better than Macross Frontier! The CG in MF is so detailed and finely rendered that it clashes with the traditional 2D animation...whereas in Shadow Chronicles, the CG they use ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE Anime Friend circa 1983. So it fits better.

...

(I better get at least FIVE Obsequious Today Badges now...I feel like I need a shower after saying that...

...but no matter how hard I scrub, I can't seem to cleanse my soul...)

You get 1...

It's only a copy and I don't think I got the pirite color of the metal right though.

However, I heard the new one is actually holy underpants with the HG logo on the backside...

Edited April 22, 2008 by Zinjo

[taksraven]

Definitely female in this photo, would any guy be caught wearing pants that low?

Maybe Brera Sterne is not he or she, but an "it". Just kidding.

Ladyboy???

Taksraven

[UN Spacy]

If Brera Sterne sounds ANYTHING like Kira Yamato I'll RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.

[MilSpex]

Unfortunately, this is not entirely accurate information, as I have tried many times to explain but failed miserably to get through the "AnimeFriend Veil of Hatred" .

I am now even thinking of putting this up on the Compedium under the fallacies section now thaqt they've gone wiki wiki wild wild west.

OK, Anime Friend: They were not technically a Korean studio, they were a Japanese studio which collaborated with Tatsunoko to produce SDF Mac and DYRL (note: Studio Nue is not an actual animation studio, it is a design production agency). In fact, I believe Anime Friend employees were mostly people who had left Tatsunoko (much like Production IG today).

Now, these guys actually working in Anime Friend were by no means bad, or "couldn't draw" or anything like that. Take a look at some of the sourcebooks for Macross, particularly the TIAS ones and you can see a lot of their work (I'll give you page numbers next time if you want).

For example, the episodes where Ichiro Itano is doing the keyframes for the action scenes, it doesn't matter who the hell traces the final cel to be photographed (be it an Anime Friend or Tatsunoko or Studio bloody Ghibli), what matters is the Itano original image. That's all they have to do.

Now. WHY do some eps of Macross look so ugly? The answer is who was in charge of the keyframes and the art. AnimeFriend actually outsourced some of their work to another studio in Korea: Star Pro.

OK, everyone who knows a little bit of katakana, go check your SDF Macross DVDs: all the really bad episodes of Macross, beginning from the 3rd episode, have the "原画" (genga / keyframes), 動画 (douga / in-betweening),　仕上げ (shiage/finishing) credited as スタープロ　or STAR PRO at the end of the episode, as opposed to the name of the person in charge, like Mikimoto in episode 4, etc. Some sourcebooks even name the guy in charge at Star Pro, his name is Park something, I dunno.

So, Anime Friend was not the crappy studio that you all think it was, that was Star Pro. Though Anime Friend could be considered lazy because all they gave Star Pro to go on where the basic storyboards and stuff and said "go make this" without providing the keyframes themselves so I guess the blame falls on them anyway.

Whatever. Take a look at that ugly episode of Orguss, "My Factory". Its "style" is VERY reminiscent of the Max/Millia wedding episode so I'm sure it is Star Pro, though I haven't checked it, and I'm sure Anime Friend had nothing whatsoever to do with Orguss, it was Tokyo Movie Shinsha that were in charge of the animation.

OK, I think I ought to start my own thread about this.

Fascinating. Thanks for your insight.

[grss1982]

If Brera Sterne sounds ANYTHING like Kira Yamato I'll RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.

You noticed that one, eh? I already think thats the kind of voice he's gonna use for B.S., since IIRC Kira did sound like a girl at odd times in GS and GSD.

[MilSpex]

Maybe I`m wrong but wasn`t there a Macross TV Special that showcased the first episode of Macross F last year (the Deculture Edition?) ? I heard somewhere it included live talk segments and retrospectives on previous series.

Am I dreaming this and if not where can I torrent it please?

Edited April 22, 2008 by MilSpex

[Chronocidal]

Definitely female in this photo, would any guy be caught wearing pants that low?

You should play the game Chrono Cross, or just look up the character Nikki. Not necessarily because of low pants, but Brera looks postitively manly by comparison.

[TehPW]

Maybe the protoculture eventually became sexless?

DeculT-Girl!

[Renato]

Maybe I`m wrong but wasn`t there a Macross TV Special that showcased the first episode of Macross F last year (the Deculture Edition?) ? I heard somewhere it included live talk segments and retrospectives on previous series.

Am I dreaming this and if not where can I torrent it please?

Rapidshare links on Macrosshare.blogspot.com, dunno about any torrents. Be advised that that one is the TBS cut version. The MBS version which aired in Kansai contains extra footage of Satelight, Bandai's VF-25 prototypes and IAD's (member here) radio-controlled SV-51. I asked my friend to record it ages ago so I hope the file is still on his hard drive. If so maybe we can upload it somewhere.

I'm typing this for the second time because of stupid computorzz. I apologize if it sounds too direct and rude.

[NwK]

but the thing is, we're not even sure who is the parallel to who. is minmei ranka or sheryl? personally, i think they're both minmei. ranka was minmei before she became an idol. sheryl was when she got caught up into stardom already. (ok minmei fans, granted minmei wasn't that much of a b!tch, but it's still a comparison.)

IMO, Ranka is the parallel of Min Mei and Sheryl is the parallel of that pro blond singer, whose name I can't remember, in SDFM. If you have watched SDFM, you would see how Min Mei entered the Miss Macross contest and became an idol after that, surpassing that other pro blond singer in popularity. I think that's what going to happen in the next few episodes of Frontier because in the preview of episode 4, we see Ranka entering the Miss Macross Frontier contest. She will win the contest and surpass Sheryl, turning her into Ranka's bitter rival.

Edited April 22, 2008 by NwK

[Renato]

IMO, Ranka is the parallel of Min Mei and Sheryl is the parallel of that pro blond singer, whose name I can't remember, in SDFM. If you have watched SDFM, you would see how Min Mei entered the Miss Macross contest and became an idol after that, surpassing that other pro blond singer in popularity. I think that's what going to happen in the next few episodes of Frontier.

She was an actress, not a singer, and not really an important character though, so we knew Minmay was gonna win. You do have a point, though.

[Vinnie]

Definitely female in this photo, would any guy be caught wearing pants that low?

Maybe Brera Sterne is not he or she, but an "it". Just kidding.

Nah, the big secret here is that Brera Stern is actually a write-in for famous JRocker Camui Gackt.

It will be the battle of Sheryl Nome's contemporary JPop versus Brera Sterne's classic JRock...in Valkyries.

I'd almost believe this one too as Gackt is huge Gundam fan and did a Gundam tribute Album.

[Zinjo]

I was immediately gonna jump on the bandwagon and say Brera Sterne must be guy, but after looking at Aegis's picture analysis, I'm not so sure any more.

Graham

Yep, Kawamori is gender bending again....

[mike_s_6]

You should play the game Chrono Cross, or just look up the character Nikki. Not necessarily because of low pants, but Brera looks postitively manly by comparison.

Lolz I know that game

Maybe Brera is like Dilandau from Escaflowne. Hahaha

[Gubaba]

You get 1...

It's only a copy and I don't think I got the pyrite color right though.

However, I heard the new one is actually holy underpants with the HG logo on the backside...

ALL RIGHT!! My new avatar!

Thanks!

[Mr March]

Renato

Excellent post. I've noted it in my original post with an edit. Thanks for setting the story straight.

Well ya'll knows I does likes ma mecha pron...

Sorry dude, wrong forum, you will have to go the the "forum that should not be named"...

Indeed you do, you dirty old man!

Yeah, you're right; I just like saying Obsequious Toady Badge, especially in bold

"ACTING!!!"

"GENIUS!!"

*bows*

I've seen opinions like that, too...mostly criticizing MF for being "eye-candy." Which is strange, because eye-candy should be a good thing...it's eye candy WITH NO SUBSTANCE that's the problem. And, three episodes in, I think it's clear that MF has substance.

I guess the dedicated Shadow Chonicles fanatic* has to say to himself, "This looks like crap, therefore it must be good for me!" Just like brussels sprouts.

Even if Macross Frontier was devoid of substance, which it most certainly is not thus far, SC doesn't have any eye candy and has no substance. So what's their excuse? But I guess when a fandom like that for SC is at the bottom of the barrel, there really is no where to go except to criticize other, better animes...which would be every anime

By the way, you have the word Toady incorrectly spelled as "Today" in your signature