Macross Frontier Episode 3 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[USCOLMRNE]

Glad it's not Griffith Park Conservatory, or else you'd see them ducking bullets and hear gang slogans in the background

/from Chicago

lol yeah I dont think they have gang activity onboard Island 1 or else the SMS would of taken care of it. Griffith Park is not that bad anymore. When I went to Chicago I didnt want to leave my car certaint parts of town lol.

[dreamweaver13]

anyone else so darn excited that the next episode could give an explanation as to the true nature of the Vajra? (if Ozma stays true to his word about telling alto about their true nature). i mean, Ozma said something like, "once you know, there's no turning back." was that just a standard one-liner, or is the secret about the vajra really that unbelievable, i wonder?

[Sorata]

anyone else so darn excited that the next episode could give an explanation as to the true nature of the Vajra? (if Ozma stays true to his word about telling alto about their true nature). i mean, Ozma said something like, "once you know, there's no turning back." was that just a standard one-liner, or is the secret about the vajra really that unbelievable, i wonder?

It could be thats what happens to some people of Zentraedi bloodlines when they mature to a certain point...as Kawamori explained about Ranka's hair moving on its own for example anything is possible now

[wolfx]

It could be thats what happens to some people of Zentraedi bloodlines when they mature to a certain point...as Kawamori explained about Ranka's hair moving on its own for example anything is possible now

I read the compendium said that and some forums have been quoting the compendium on that, but where did Kawamori stated this? Its really strange considering no past Zentraedi shown such traits.

[VFTF1]

It's nice to own the 1/60 Quid Rau and have it show up in the anime

Makes me feel significant

VFTF1

[Renato]

Wow that didn't take long....

That's what she said...

[Renato]

I read the compendium said that and some forums have been quoting the compendium on that, but where did Kawamori stated this? Its really strange considering no past Zentraedi shown such traits.

I think it came from some recent interview, maybe in Newtype?

[JB0]

still liking how MF is developing. Poor Lt. Glass, getting stuck a man with such a terrible haircut (darn maybe if i had my hair cut like that ... argh)

quick query - does anybody know which version (AiA or Gattai) has the better graphic quality? Are both HD?

Gattai has the best image quality... provided you download the .ass file and combine it with a raw.

I found all the presubbed videos to have rather low image quality. The HD raws are beautiful, though.

[taksraven]

I just want to know why the VF-25 carries a lightsaber-knife.

Close combat. I still think that the bayonet mounted on the gunpod of the VF-11B Thunderbolt was a much cooler idea, visually and practically.

Oh, and is it me, or do the lobsters have some sort of obsession with Ranka?

You think so????

Taksraven

[taksraven]

anyone else so darn excited that the next episode could give an explanation as to the true nature of the Vajra? (if Ozma stays true to his word about telling alto about their true nature). i mean, Ozma said something like, "once you know, there's no turning back." was that just a standard one-liner, or is the secret about the vajra really that unbelievable, i wonder?

It is a pretty big buildup for their origins/motives. It had better be good.

Taksraven

[Radd]

I read the compendium said that and some forums have been quoting the compendium on that, but where did Kawamori stated this? Its really strange considering no past Zentraedi shown such traits.

It really just sounds like the sort of tongue-in-cheek throwaway comment storytellers come up with all the time. I think people are taking it far too seriously.

[NwK]

More fan service in episode 3. This time from Sheryl and Alto gets a slap in the face because of that

Ranka entering the Miss Macross Frontier competition is so similar to the way Lyn Min May entered the Miss Macross competition in the original series, that I bet she will overtake Sheryl as the new singing sensation in Macross Frontier, just like how Min May did it in Macross.

Also the way Alto, Ranka & Sheryl got trapped in the emergency shelter was so similar to the way Hikaru and Min May got trapped in the original show, except Alto was more luckier then Hikaru, if you know what I mean .The way Ozama got injured I thought he was going to die like Roy Fokker but I am glad they didn't kill him off just yet. I wonder if he will die like Roy in the original series? Catherine Glass making it out with Leon in the office was also a surprise to me. If you remember in the original show, Misa Hayase's boyfriend was also named Leon, except he was already dead in Macross. I wonder if Leon is going to die too and Catherine ends up having a relationship with Alto, just like Hikaru and Misa? I can't wait to see what happens in the next episode.

[BlueMax]

More fan service in episode 3. This time from Sheryl and Alto gets a slap in the face because of that

Ranka entering the Miss Macross Frontier competition is so similar to the way Lyn Min May entered the Miss Macross competition in the original series, that I bet she will overtake Sheryl as the new singing sensation in Macross Frontier, just like how Min May did it in Macross.

Also the way Alto, Ranka & Sheryl got trapped in the emergency shelter was so similar to the way Hikaru and Min May got trapped in the original show, except Alto was more luckier then Hikaru, if you know what I mean .The way Ozama got injured I thought he was going to die like Roy Fokker but I am glad they didn't kill him off just yet. I wonder if he will die like Roy in the original series? Catherine Glass making it out with Leon in the office was also a surprise to me. If you remember in the original show, Misa Hayase's boyfriend was also named Leon, except he was already dead in Macross. I wonder if Leon is going to die too and Catherine ends up having a relationship with Alto, just like Hikaru and Misa? I can't wait to see what happens in the next episode.

Misa's boyfriend was called Riber, not Leon.

Edited April 21, 2008 by BlueMax

[NwK]

Misa's boyfriend was called Riber, not Leon.

Ah yes, Riber. You got me there . Sorry for that mistake!

[raymond]

New guy here, but I just wanted to post my own thoughts on this episode and series in general.

First of all, the graphics and animation are great! I don't watch anime much, mostly stuff that I watched as a kid and have found that I can get them of the net with torrents. So I'm mostly all caught up with the fact that they can combine 3D with traditional cel-shading. What I would give to watch these kinds of anime when I was a kid!

It seems that the amount of homages in the first three episodes are seriously about to cross the line into the realm of recycling. I like the way that they bring up these old concepts, images, and feelings from the old series but somewhere along the line, they've got to come up with new stuff to appeal to viewers. Probably something that will be referenced again in future series as an homage of Macross Frontier.

Third, one of the things that I disliked from Macross 7 was the fact that it took nearly a quarter of the series' run in order to have a feel for what the enemies wanted, what the good guys were going to do about it, and how people felt about the bad guys. IIRC, it was even in the last few episodes that the Protodeviln were finally shown to be creations of the Protoculture. Hopefully, this series doesn't take that too long to explain things.

As for characters, the designs are really good. Each main character seems to have their own quirks and have the necessary accessories (hair, clothes, facial expressions) to enhance their "acting". That some of these parallels those of the original Macross series isn't necessarily a bad thing though at this point, I think its reasonable to expect them to grow and develop further as the series progresses.

For the bad guys, I guess all of us here are pretty much in the dark on what the Vajira guys are or want. Personally, I think that the blond guy in a blue suit might be one of the enemies but thats up for speculation. Got some pictures to show who I'm talking about here and here.

And on a personal note, I find it kind of sad that Minmay never got Hikaru in the end. I mean, deep down, she was a really nice girl. If anything, we might expect this series to have Alto and Ranka together in the end or leave it all ambiguous and unresolved like Macross 7. Personally, I'd rather like to see the professional singer (Sheryl) get the guy this time. She may be snobbish and too much of a star but maybe she can be nice in her own way. Just because she's an idol doesn't mean she has to be single all her life. Man, I am reading way too much into this!

Anyway, this has gone pretty long and I'm digressing already. Tell me what you guys think too!

[Zinjo]

Cell shading has been around for several years now. Best examples of that would be (off the top of my head), Last Exile and Ergo Proxy to name a couple. The cg is almost seemless.

Oh and don't forget Shadow Chronicles... , OK, OK, sorry, I lost my lunch and I feel MUCH better now....

[Batou]

What I want to know is when we're going to see the Macross Whatever-the-hell-it's-called transform and start wrecking something big. Just watched this ep again, and seeing the teaser shots of that massive thing in attack mode spewing what looked like anti strikecraft fire is just too much.

Do the "arms" look like big Macross cannons to you as well? I'm sure the Vajra have something big and nasty enough to shoot this thing at a few times before the series is over.

[bsu legato]

That's what she said...

Thank you, Michael Scott.

[wolfx]

Cell shading has been around for several years now. Best examples of that would be (off the top of my head), Last Exile and Ergo Proxy to name a couple. The cg is almost seemless.

Oh and don't forget Shadow Chronicles... , OK, OK, sorry, I lost my lunch and I feel MUCH better now....

Those aren't celshaded .... at least not prominently.

I'd say the 1s Appleseed movie, Vexille and the Transformers Energon series as good examples of Cel Shadining.

In case we're misunderstanding the meaning of cel-shading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_shading

[grss1982]

For the bad guys, I guess all of us here are pretty much in the dark on what the Vajira guys are or want. Personally, I think that the blond guy in a blue suit might be one of the enemies but thats up for speculation. Got some pictures to show who I'm talking about here and here.

Kababayan!!!

Anyways about the pics you posted some have speculated he could be alto main opponent, Personally I think he is also the pilot of this VF the flys by the VF-25 in the scene of the OP:

http://i32.tinypic.com/jv3jvr.jpg

BTW, the VF-25 is the one in the right.

Edited April 21, 2008 by grss1982

[Tobi54]

Those aren't celshaded .... at least not prominently.

I'd say the 1s Appleseed movie, Vexille and the Transformers Energon series as good examples of Cel Shadining.

In case we're misunderstanding the meaning of cel-shading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_shading

Yukikaze, Some of the Animatrix shorts like The Second Renaissance to some degree. Most of the time cel-shading is used for either mechs and environments, which I have no problems with, I still like hand-drawn (humanoid) characters, unless of course they have the budget to do something like Ex-Machina, which is really not viable for a TV show.

[wolfx]

Kababayan!!!

Anyways about the pics you posted some have speculated he could be alto main opponent, Personally I think he is also the pilot of this VF the flys by the VF-25 in the scene of the OP:

http://i32.tinypic.com/jv3jvr.jpg

BTW, the VF-25 is the one in the right.

I thought that person was a girl and the name was something Sterne as revealed in the earlier released next ep preview of the DeCulture edition?

[Duke Togo]

What would happen if Anti-UN forces got their hands on Protoculture weaponry?

[Macross007]

What would happen if Anti-UN forces got their hands on Protoculture weaponry?

Are you suggesting that Leon is a Anti-UN soldier ?

[Phil K]

Flat two tone rendering of 3D Models is called "Toon Shading". "Cel Shading" refers to coloring animation frames by painting on top of transperant "cel"luloid sheets.

Technically no anime has been "cel shaded" in a few years now, they just scan in the pencil drawings and color them on the computer now due to the rising cost of plastics.

[Mr March]

And the thing which is really beginning to bother me is this: at what point does all this stop being fan-oriented homages which we all enjoy, and start becoming just a re-hash? I don't think we are there yet, but I would like to have the show go off on its own tangent already. Yes, I like the original show and I love that the snuck in things like the litter robot thing, and the Minmay rescue thing redux was cool, but as I posted loast week, I certainly had a bad feeling that they're going a bit too far down this road.

I have to admit, this is something that hasn't even crossed my mind until now. Macross Frontier should be coming off as too homage-heavy and more than a little recycled, but it's just not turning out that way. The mecha, the characters, the setting and the Vajra are simply far too interesting. In particular, though several situations feel like repeats of the original series, each of the characters are reacting in totally different ways and each of their personalities are completely different from past Macross shows. In SDF Macross humanity was united against the Zentraid, but in Macross Frontier there are splinters, machinations and resentment (NUNS vs. SMS, Leon and Glass). Minmay was demure, sweet and naive, but Sheryl is boisterous and even arrogant. Hikaru was passive, distrustful and disliked the military, but Alto is aggresive, loud and eager to fight. Hikaru liked Minmay and wanted to pursue her after their ordeal being trapped in the SDF-1 Macrossp, but after their ordeal in the emergency bunker, Alto dislikes Sheryl and want's nothing to do with her. The Zentradi and Varauta were new and totally unprescedented enemies for humanity, but it's clear Ozuma, Glass and Mishima not only expected the Vajra to attack, but there is a history of encounters going back some 11 years. And so on and so on...

Macross Frontier's story is as if the Kawamori and Co. took the original SDF Macross and the sequel Macross 7 series as templates, but threw absolutely everything on edge. The themes of Macross like transforming mecha, the love triangle, the idol singer and music all remain, but everything else we've come to expect from the fiction of Macross has been changed and hit with a complete 180. At least, so far. If they keep us on edge and wanting more with each episode, this series will remain viable. I'm certainly eager to know more, so they've got me for the duration. I just hope they don't let me down.

[Noyhauser]

I had that worry too March, but I think of a certain other Anime dynasty has done follow on series and I think Kawamori & co. have done a fairly good job. Zeta Gundam follows the 0079 Series conventions fairly closely, with a small amount of homages, but its a splendid series in its own right. I think Macross F might be following in that own way.

[Duke Togo]

Are you suggesting that Leon is a Anti-UN soldier ?

No. But we've got this blond Stern guy with the Zentradi ears, a variable fighter that looks remarkably similar to the VF-25, and the lobsters that have some markings that remind you of the Aphos in ZERO. Oh, and something has lead us to NUNS.

Just a thought. And I've been saying this for years, how long before the UN goes down the same path the Protoculture did (interstellar civil war)?

Edited April 21, 2008 by Duke Togo

[Final Vegeta]

I think the truth about Vajra is more about like they are decimating humanity (a fact silented by media) than them being a Zentradi/Metroid hybrid.

Also, while the knife is cool on its own, it is somewhat unoriginal. Obviously in mecha show we've seen almost all weapons, but I think there are better alternatives on where to charge PPB energy rather than into a knife.

1) Charge the edge of the shield into a chainsaw. This would be good because the other hand can still use the gunpod.

2) SHINING FINGAAAAAA!!!

FV

[Final Vegeta]

Flat two tone rendering of 3D Models is called "Toon Shading". "Cel Shading" refers to coloring animation frames by painting on top of transperant "cel"luloid sheets.

Sorry, Wikipedia says otherwise. Toon shading = cel shading.

FV

[Mr March]

Noyhauser

I suppose you're right. In fact, the lack of dozens of shows is actually what works for most of the Macross sequels, even the weak ones. If we had a Macross television show every other year since 1982, Macross would have long burned out on similarities, homages and parallels like some anime franchises have. But because there's 25 years difference between SDF Macross and Frontier, it feels like a welcome return to an old story with a new face. Macross Frontier is like Battlestar Galactica re-imagined in many ways. Similar setting and technology but completely reimagined story and characters.

[TehPW]

No. But we've got this blond Stern guy with the Zentradi ears, a variable fighter that looks remarkably similar to the VF-25, and the lobsters that have some markings that remind you of the Aphos in ZERO. Oh, and something has lead us to NUNS.

Just a thought. And I've been saying this for years, how long before the UN goes down the same path the Protoculture did (interstellar civil war)?

you of course assume all is not well in the UN... as long as people are NOT OPPRESSED, why would a insurection need to exist?

unless of course, some people were forced to go along with all these colony flights? The question about rebellions in the Macross fictional timeline is good. and allowing the events of VF-X2 to be cannon (does the PTB concurr that VF-X2 is cannon macross history?), then it has happened at least once.

How many threats has humanity faced since they took to the stars on the Colonization Binge post-space war one? how many different Zentradi fleets have the various colony fleets meet (assuming they survived the meeting. does anyone know how many total colony fleets exist compared to how many fleets have been destroyed?) and im still fuzzy about the Vartula. where they the 'Inspection forces' mentioned in SDFM?

or in light of DYRL, did that aspect of the back story change, too?

seeing the events of DYRL in the OP for MF speaks volumes and i believe the cannonity for Macross as a whole HAS changed from the TV series...

Raymond: The Pink Pecker VF is still IFF-off atm (everybody agrees it'll be a foe but what faction it serves TBD) and the Girlboy is also TBDGender. Some people said He/she is the Battle 25's IA but is that comfirmed? Sure doesn't look like Cortana to me. The pics doesn't suggest boobage either but how knows... maybe Girlboy will be Alto's Kaworu Nagisa

[Duke Togo]

There is too much unknown right now, none of us may have any idea what is going on. It was just a thought. The one thing the subs on episode 3 made clear, the Varja are not a secret. Atleast one other fleet has been attacked before, if not multiple. I'm just trying to place the blond with Zentradi ears and the mystery variable fighter.

Speaking of fleets, we did have a question definitively answered in this episode, the Megaroad and New Macross fleets were not the only ones out there, there were smaller fleets (as many had guessed). This clears up the confusion over fleet numbers.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Duke Togo

[nemesis_trooper]

Gattai has the best image quality... provided you download the .ass file and combine it with a raw.

I found all the presubbed videos to have rather low image quality. The HD raws are beautiful, though.

THanks JBO

[Zinjo]

No. But we've got this blond Stern guy with the Zentradi ears, a variable fighter that looks remarkably similar to the VF-25, and the lobsters that have some markings that remind you of the Aphos in ZERO. Oh, and something has lead us to NUNS.

Just a thought. And I've been saying this for years, how long before the UN goes down the same path the Protoculture did (interstellar civil war)?

Yeah, I am thinking the same way.

In the Newb thread apparently a French Macross Wikipedia (not much of a reliable source I agree) lists two dates in the 2050's and refers to a splintering between the UNG and the colony worlds and a form of cold war forming.

Now this is absolute speculation of course, but what if such events DID occur? What if apparently aligned groups (Frontier & Galaxy) were actually politcally at odds and competing? What if the SMS being a civillian profit oriented military contractor were supplying both sides? What if the Vajra are a group that have PC weaponry/technology at their disposal and both sides are looking to court them into an alliance?

The whole turning the universe on it's ear, that Marchalongcassidy suggested, would fit, since typically it's been "us" (humanity) against an alien threat-Zentreadi, PD, Aphos, etc.... A suitable change up would be that humanity becomes it's own worst enemy and an alien people are witnesses to this!

Yes it's very Gundam, however for Gundam to do the same, they would have to have the mobile suits suddenly face an alien threat to humanity...

Now what in the world could a brand new Battle fortress with dual Macross cannons for arms need to shoot at? How about another brand new Battle fortress on the other side of the fence?

Macross Plus, 7 and Zero proved one thing about the macross fanbase, we LOVE variable on variable fighter combat. VF vs alien mecha tends to bore most of us, thus the ultimate macross mecha porn is an all out battle between transforming fighters and of course transforming battleships...

It's all speculation of course, based on a dodgy wikipedia source, but not impossible, just one of dozens of possibilities...