Tom Clancys H.A.W.X

[anime52k8]

*sigh* ... ubi... really??

Well, that does answer the question of why it won't hover... they replaced the thrust vectoring system with an afterburner.

and yet even with the reheat it's still slower than the F-16

yeah, the game really has no idea what it's talking about. half the time you'd think you were playing a battlefield game.

[Zx31]

Honestly, since when did we start expecting realism in console games?

I thought that's what PC flight sims were for.

In all seriousness, I honestly don't mind if something is unrealistic as long as it's fun, and I guess we'll have to wait for that verdict until next month. Heck, gimme another Crimson Skies and I'd be thrilled, but that'll happen just as soon as we get another decent MechWarrior.

[David Hingtgen]

When Ace Combat's more realistic, you've got problems...

[Alpha OTS]

Downloaded the 360 demo and just finshed playing it a couple times. First thing I tried to do was take notice of the ground detail, and it's better than AC6. It also seems to remember weapons impact to buildings. Otherwise it's graphically about the same.

The assistance mode is a nice gimmick, but nothing I'll ever use. I don't think it's intended for us. It's intended for the general public who want to see the replay camera *while* playing. I felt like it gave me less control over my plane.

I won't buy this new, but it's definitely on my buy list for $30 to $40.

[Uxi]

Sounds like I'll be waiting for this one to hit used or markdown after a year or so.

[Chronocidal]

I'd definitely recommend waiting, or at least sticking with the PC version in the hope that a modding community will rise up to fix the problems it has. As is, this game is so full of "wtf are you thinking?" errors, I'm seriously considering skipping it altogether. The more I play this, the more it seems like the demo is pretty much a beta at best, no matter how polished it looks.

Just had an interesting experience trying to make sense of the hud view, and whoever designed it has probably never seen how a real hud even works, and has serious issues with what "level" means.. the horizon line is wrong of all things, if you try to level with it, you climb pretty steadily.. combined with the nonsensical units system they seem to be using, the instruments are entirely useless.

Edited February 26, 2009 by Chronocidal

[Wes]

Sounds like I'll be waiting for this one to hit used or markdown after a year or so.

Don't wait that long, I've been finding half-off or more within a month with the economy how it is. Just keep your eyes open.

[Dangard Ace]

PSN demo is out.

[shiroikaze]

It's a decent game but it left me unimpressed... Replay really isn't really better or as robust as Ace Combat's replay function. They should give us an option to customize however we want to fly in either Assistance On or Off mode...

It's visually just as good as Ace Combat 6.

[Uxi]

Demo is... underwhelming. I actually didn't mind the camera mode for the limiter off... I was a bit bored by it, though, once the visual prettyness wore off.

[Chronocidal]

To tell the truth, I'm absolutely pissed by their inattention to anything resembling a normal PC control config. They just seem incapable of understanding how PC gamers don't have 3 hands to run the throttle, stick, and MOUSE at the same friggen time. It's like they ported the console version without thinking. Even the game menus just don't make sense on a PC (who the #$%! uses the ESC key to continue??)

The camera system is meant to be used as an axis based system, like on a console version with a thumbstick, and assigning it to a hat switch means the camera only snaps to it's maximum range.. meaning, directly above, below, or behind you in exterior view, and above and to the sides in cockpit. And on top of that, you have to "activate" the camera by holding down a button before it'll actually move. Hope you didn't want to fly and look around at the same time.

Rudder pedals don't work either, unless you like flying the plane with them entirely (left brake axis controls roll, right brake controls pitch, and the yaw function actually throttles ). I had to unplug my pedals before the plane would stop spinning into the ground from conflicting inputs. The game registers 2 separate joysticks being plugged in, but can't separate the control inputs to do different things.

Coupled with all the wonky camera problems and the fact that their flight model is complete crap (no, banking does not put you in a gentle turn, the only way to turn is roll 90 degrees and pull back), I think I'll be passing on this till it hits a bargain bin.

Btw, I finally figured out the core of why I hate the assistance off cam, and what made it feel so.. well, just wrong... They claim it's a situational awareness tool.. ok, maybe. But I finally realized what I was doing wrong while using it... I was actually focusing on my target. That situational awareness comes at a price. Yes, you can see your target.. but unless you are also watching YOUR OWN PLANE, you don't know what you're doing. Being inside, and seeing through the pilot's eyes usually gives you a very clear picture of how you're flying (blue is sky, brown is the ground, etc). But with the camera fixed to the world spatial system, you have to keep track of your plane on top of your enemy's. Between that, and an inability to aim, I just hope and pray someone finds a way to either add more cameras to that mode, or disable it entirely.

The development team just appears totally inept to me as of now. The game is very pretty, I'll give it that. But under that Ferrari exterior, the engine was salvaged off a broken down moped. Worthless physics, nonsensical dimensions, and nausea inducing disorientation from the camera system. The only thing I see saving this game at this point is the PC modding community.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Chronocidal

[mikeszekely]

To tell the truth, I'm absolutely pissed by their inattention to anything resembling a normal PC control config. They just seem incapable of understanding how PC gamers don't have 3 hands to run the throttle, stick, and MOUSE at the same friggen time. It's like they ported the console version without thinking. Even the game menus just don't make sense on a PC (who the #$%! uses the ESC key to continue??)

The camera system is meant to be used as an axis based system, like on a console version with a thumbstick, and assigning it to a hat switch means the camera only snaps to it's maximum range.. meaning, directly above, below, or behind you in exterior view, and above and to the sides in cockpit. And on top of that, you have to "activate" the camera by holding down a button before it'll actually move. Hope you didn't want to fly and look around at the same time.

Rudder pedals don't work either, unless you like flying the plane with them entirely (left brake axis controls roll, right brake controls pitch, and the yaw function actually throttles ). I had to unplug my pedals before the plane would stop spinning into the ground from conflicting inputs. The game registers 2 separate joysticks being plugged in, but can't separate the control inputs to do different things.

Coupled with all the wonky camera problems and the fact that their flight model is complete crap (no, banking does not put you in a gentle turn, the only way to turn is roll 90 degrees and pull back), I think I'll be passing on this till it hits a bargain bin.

Btw, I finally figured out the core of why I hate the assistance off cam, and what made it feel so.. well, just wrong... They claim it's a situational awareness tool.. ok, maybe. But I finally realized what I was doing wrong while using it... I was actually focusing on my target. That situational awareness comes at a price. Yes, you can see your target.. but unless you are also watching YOUR OWN PLANE, you don't know what you're doing. Being inside, and seeing through the pilot's eyes usually gives you a very clear picture of how you're flying (blue is sky, brown is the ground, etc). But with the camera fixed to the world spatial system, you have to keep track of your plane on top of your enemy's. Between that, and an inability to aim, I just hope and pray someone finds a way to either add more cameras to that mode, or disable it entirely.

The development team just appears totally inept to me as of now. The game is very pretty, I'll give it that. But under that Ferrari exterior, the engine was salvaged off a broken down moped. Worthless physics, nonsensical dimensions, and nausea inducing disorientation from the camera system. The only thing I see saving this game at this point is the PC modding community.

Since they ported the console version without thinking, does it work on the PC with a 360 controller?

[Garou Kuroryuu]

Currently downloading the demo for PS3. Will give it a try during the weekend.

Not too excited from the latest comments, I must say.

[shiroikaze]

Since they ported the console version without thinking, does it work on the PC with a 360 controller?

Most likely yes.

[badboy00z]

Just played the 1st mission (training) on the demo. First of all I've never really played any flight sims or Ace Combat games. The only one that I've played fully was Turn and Burn on the SNES. Lol. So with that said I really like this game. The limiter off mode is cool and the stall turns are fun to do. I wonder what other crazy maneuvers I can pull off. Haha.

[Zx31]

I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but the Advanced Control option for Limiter Off mode apparently gives you control over the camera as well. So if anyone is turned off by the fixed camera, you might try it.

[Roy Focker]

Played the demo. Graphics and game play are to close enough to Ace Combat for me.

When I start singing "High way to the Discovery Zone" during play it means I'll be buying a copy.

[Chronocidal]

Actually, no, there is absolutely no camera control in limiter off mode. It's stuck like that, and the developers seem to be completely convinced it's the best possible way to play it. All the expert mode does is make it so you can roll the plane, rather than steering left and right automatically. Many people chatting on the developer forums have been questioning whether any of the developers have actually every played an aircraft related game before, and I'd have to agree with them. This game has more in common with something like Freespace or X-wing/Tie Fighter than Ace Combat. All it's missing is lasers, and you'd have purely sci-fi physics.

Console players actually may have a big advantage over PC users on this, just for the controls. Unless you're using an Xbox controller, or something similar on your PC, I just don't see a good way to configure the controls to be useful. I was really hopeful that this would be something like Ace Combat on the PC, and finally allow me to use my good HOTAS system, but the control scheme was never meant for a stick and throttle. When you need a thumbstick to control the camera correctly, and some maneuvers require you to press the throttle and brake at the same time (not possible when using an actual throttle), you're just better off using a gamepad. Besides, Saitek sticks like the X52 are causing the game to fail anyway. I'm one of the few who've gotten it to work, and really, it's not worth the effort.

I can imagine it might eventually turn out to be a good substitute for Ace Combat on the PC, but if I have to use a gamepad to play it, I might as well go back to Ace Combat, and be rid of the screwy camera system. Right now, Ubi seems dead set on making something to appeal to a different audience than sim fans, and they've definitely succeeded at that, if only by completely pissing off the people who like sims. The arguments on the developer forums have reached absolutely juvenile levels, mostly between people who know something about aircraft (and who realize the problems with the game), and those who don't care a bit about any realism or accuracy, and just want something where they can blow stuff up in something that flies kinda like an airplane (and I use "kinda" in the loosest sense of the word).

Basically, comparing any flight sim to HAWX is like comparing something like Gran Turismo to a game like Lego Racers. Same concept (flying/driving), completely different treatment. If you've never played a flight game in your life, yeah, this game might be very fun. But it's a lot to swallow if you have any knowledge of real aircraft.

Btw, anyone who wonders what to expect, and whether they did any research on how different planes fly needs to watch this.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Chronocidal

[shiroikaze]

And here I was, looking forward to this game when I first heard about it... with the game's release date so close, no way the devs will do anything about it...

[Zx31]

Actually, no, there is absolutely no camera control in limiter off mode. It's stuck like that, and the developers seem to be completely convinced it's the best possible way to play it. All the expert mode does is make it so you can roll the plane, rather than steering left and right automatically.

Odd, I just listened to the Major Nelson podcast and he interviewed the lead developer who, I could have sworn, said that it allowed you to control the camera instead of the camera staying fixed. Personally, I enjoy 'arcade' air combat games a bit more that flight sims. Mainly cause I suck at actual flight in real physics. Heck, the one time I actually flew a Sundowner ( don't quote me on the model ), my door popped open mid-flight and we had to land at a municipal airfield to close it.

As far as controls, I don't see how you'd play it with a flight stick. It's definitely designed for a gamepad.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Zx31

[Chronocidal]

Well, apparently he hasn't played it.. you can't control the camera at all in that mode. It's not fixed, but you are stuck looking at your plane from a mile away, and the camera spins around to keep your target in the view. It's like a target padlock view that you can't turn off even if you WANTED to see what's in front of you.. which, when actually flying, is usually a useful thing.

And yeah, them claiming to support joysticks is a crock. It's just made for a gamepad, pure and simple. Unless you happen to own one of the Ace Combat bundle sticks, you're not going to have the right controls to make the game work, and even then, you can't throttle forward and back at the same time, which seems to be required to pull off some maneuver types.

[badboy00z]

Wish there was free flight in the demo.

[Wes]

This game was ass.

[anime52k8]

Btw, anyone who wonders what to expect, and whether they did any research on how different planes fly needs to watch this.

that video actually makes me want to play a little bit more actually. It's so stupid and yet awsome seeing a A-12 doing those kind of maneuvers. Though I've got to ask, where are those missiles coming from? they just kind of pop out of the back of the plane

I wonder if they actually put any thought into how the planes should actually perform at all.

[Smiley424]

just downloaded the PC demo. I'll probably get to it over the weekend. Just early buzz around is that the game has some nice ideas, but flawed execution. Looks like another Ace Combat pretender to me. I'll let you folks know when I get around to playing it.

got through playing the demo and I'm very disappointed. Most of the gameplay features feel too gimmicky for my tastes. I couldn't stand limiter off mode, it looks cool, but makes the game very difficult to play. It seems like the developers looked at Ace Combat and said "How can we dumb down this game more and make it seem like it is different from Ace Combat?". It is a very nice looking game but I won't be buying it on first release.

Edited March 6, 2009 by Smiley424

[Chronocidal]

that video actually makes me want to play a little bit more actually. It's so stupid and yet awsome seeing a A-12 doing those kind of maneuvers. Though I've got to ask, where are those missiles coming from? they just kind of pop out of the back of the plane

I wonder if they actually put any thought into how the planes should actually perform at all.

Actually, I'm pretty sure they didn't think anything further than "ok, this plane has 2 engines, so it goes faster." Hell, the flight physics belong in X-Wing or Tie Fighter. Banking does nothing, you fly exactly the same whether you're right-side up, upside-down, or rolled sideways. Granted, it simplifies things not having to trim.. but having banking not put you into a gentle turn? You may as well use the rudder alone (which works just fine ).

They claim that they did a bunch of research and such, but I have no idea how they actually got the major aircraft manufacturers to sign off on this. They really did no research about the aircraft at all.

Just a few:

F-16A is actually a C model

Their "Mitsubishi F-2" is simply the same F-16C repainted

The F-15 "Strike Eagle" is a C model with no FAST packs and a single seat cockpit

Their F-15 Active model ditched thrust vectoring (unless they just didn't bother to animate that)

You know how the rear stabs work on planes, where they work together for elevator, and opposite for roll? Yeah, they missed that too.

(insert lex Luthor voice here)WRONG!!

Btw, it's actually pretty obvious that they didn't even touch Ace Combat before making this, since if they had, they may have noticed a few of these things, since AC got them all right.

For a while, people were worried that the F-14's wings weren't even going to move, since no one had seen a screenshot with them swept back. Apparently they didn't screw that one up, but I have yet to see any proof, and I'm actually very curious to see what kind of shenanigans they pull with the F-14 versions, or how many of those many control surfaces they actually will bother to animate. I know they skipped the leading edge flaps on the F-16.

I know they've figured out how to unlock a lot of extra content and aircraft in the PC demo. I might have to see what else they goofed on, just out of morbid curiousity.

Edited March 6, 2009 by Chronocidal

[Zx31]

I completely understand why many aircraft enthusiasts dislike the game. However, I think that it appeals to the target audiance who are console owners used to played shooters. Granted, I love aircraft, but I'm willing to forgive all the physics and detail errors in an arcade style flight combat shooter. I don't think you'll find anything resembling an actual flight sim on a console. I actually enjoy both AC6 as well as HAWX, and welcome any decent entries of flight combat games to the usually dry genre on consoles.

[MDP310]

I played the demo on my brother's 360 and it rocked. I was planning on getting it on PC, but if it turns out to be flightstick-retarded, then screw it. I'll stick to Crimson Skies and X-Wing Alliance.

[kensei]

Should be good with a Saitek X-52 Flight stick. Looks good, don't care about the inaccuracies at the moment, I just want to play.

[DarkReaper]

Using a HOTAS joystick on that game is just unneeded wear and tear. Everything more sophisticated than a gamepad is waste.

The graphics are nice but that is because they use detail textures from photos for the ground instead of the usual satellite pictures.

The graphics honestly aren't that good. It looks like Lock-on with added HDR. The sensitivity of the steering is far too low and I hate that I constantly have to roll the fighter to the vertical to get it to turn instead of maybe 45° angle and gently turn up.

Other than those issues it is sort of fun. And the chance of seeing 50 planes gets me excited.

[Keith]

Unable to download the demo right now, I picked it up yesturday. It's definately "ok," the assistence off mode is equal parts stupid & useless as all hell, but aside from that, it's not a bad AC knock-off. It definately doesn't feel as "tight" as any of the Ace Combats though, it's hard to explain, but the level of feeling in the control just isn't there.

[Chronocidal]

Should be good with a Saitek X-52 Flight stick. Looks good, don't care about the inaccuracies at the moment, I just want to play.

Actually, that's one of the serious issues this game has been having on the PC. A good deal of complaints about the demo are from people who can't run the game unless their X52 is unplugged. I got it to work myself, but most people can't. The game tends to do this for a lot of joysticks actually, TM Cougars, X52s (not sure of regular or pro distinctions tho, I have an X52 pro and it worked), and even some Saitek Aviators have been having problems.

I agree though, this game isn't meant to be played with a hotas setup, and especially not with pedals. Combination of having no thumbstick to control the view, and no option to throttle up and down simultaneously means that gamepads just have a huge advantage.

[JB0]

Btw, anyone who wonders what to expect, and whether they did any research on how different planes fly needs to watch this.

Reading the comments on that.

A. We get to laugh at YouTube for not knowing what a YF-12A is.

B. Assuming they're accurate, HAWX has the Blackbird's TOP speed as mach 2? Someone must DIE.

[Garou Kuroryuu]

Tried the demo on PS3 during the weekend.

The graphics are plain "ok" for a latest generation console. The physics sorta suck, the stats are way too off and the camera/display is plain stupid in the OFF mode. Sure, you can see your own stunts and all that, but it's a pain trying to get anything in front of you to shoot at.

I'll pass on this one and will keep hoping Ace Combat gets a decent comeback to the PS.

[badboy00z]

After playing a few more times, I realized there isn't that many maneuvers you can do besides the stall turns and flips.