Macross Frontier Episode 1 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[MisaForever]

That's the Deculture Edition. The new one hasn't been subbed yet.

Right, I knew it wasn't the new episode but I wasn't sure if there were different versions of the one released last year. Thankee

[Lindem Herz]

I liked it, but I liked Deculture way better. Probably gonna make a fanedit of this as soon as there is a subbed version available.

[Bill C.]

why did

Ozma say "Ranka, finally this day has arrived" (after receiving orders for victor 3)

?

sorry if this has been answered before, but i didn't notice this until today

it's also in the deculture version. >.<

It's safe to assume that

Ozma had/has much more of a clue than anybody else in the SMS fighter wing as to exactly what Code Victor-3 meant

. (And

some in-flight dialogue between Ozma and the doomed pilot guy

bears that out, if I remember correctly.) And since you also had

the Frontier President also talking to the unseen Mr. Habler (DC version: "They've finally arrived") about this

, well...

[Mr March]

Just finished watching.

Personally, I'm fine with the new edit. It does alter the pacing of the episode and we lose some good editing at the expense of the new. However we also gain and some sequences work much better. Cutting the Ghost fighter sequence actually makes the encounter with the Vajra both more immediate and the loss of human life definitely adds more dramatic tension. The new edit also makes the concert more coherent. Alto, Michael and co. prescence makes much more sense in the new edit rather than the Deculture edition where we're left to wonder why they are involved when they're suddenly seen flying around in the performance. We also get much more fluid character introductions for people like the officer taking care of Sheryl (can't recall her name right now). It also links Ranca to Alto and his friends and intercutting the battle outside between Alto and friends makes for excellent foreshadowing.

Overall, the gains and losses seem on par with each other. This is the nature of editing. Of course, this alternate version has to compete with Macross fans who have the Deculture Edition tattooed on the inside of their eyelids after watching it about a hundred and one times over since December. In that respect, even the Deculture Edition would fail to impress were the release dates of the two version reversed.

Ultimately, I'm glad we have both edits of Macross Frontier. Like Macross Plus, I enjoy watching both OVA and Film versions and I'll be more than happy to enjoy the two edits of MF episode 1 all the same.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Mr March

[mike_s_6]

I didn't like this cut, but hey, the Deculture edition is still lying around

[TehPW]

I know Youtube has been nipping the OP from viewing... bu will they allow short portions of the episode? I really want to see the edited battles...

[veffidas]

Mr March, I'm taking the liberty to unspoil some of your non-spoiler comments for the sake of discussion.

Overall, the gains and losses seem on par with each other. This is the nature of editing. Of course, this alternate version has to compete with Macross fans who have the Deculture Edition tattooed on the inside of their eyelids after watching it about a hundred and one times over since December. In that respect, even the Deculture Edition would fail to impress were the release dates of the two version reversed.

Ultimately, I'm glad we have both edits of Macross Frontier. Like Macross Plus, I enjoy watching both OVA and Film versions and I'll be more than happy to enjoy the two edits of MF episode 1 all the same.

I'd tend to disagree. As I said, in my first post concerning this broadcast cut, I don't have the Deculture edition impressed into memory; I even started critiquing portions that were coincident in both. So the Deculture edition definitely wasn't fresh in my mind when giving my perspective.

Conversely, I found the lack to the Ghost scene make the episode fail to explain the sudden full out attack on the enemy. It makes the Macross Frontier fleet seem like a bunch of trigger happy drones. "We can't confirm the status of one pilot? Let's throw everything we've got at 'em!"

That said, I'll still look forward to what the rest of the series is like.

[Necron_99]

Just finished watching the raw

Loved the Nyun-Nyun commercial!!

Is it just me or does Sheryl sing a different version of "Don't be Late" in the Deculture Edition? I kinda prefer that one. I agree with what Mr. March said about the 2 different edits, they both work just as well, for thier own reasons.

[Bill C.]

Conversely, I found

the lack to the Ghost scene

make the episode fail to explain

the sudden full out attack on the enemy

. It makes

the Macross Frontier fleet seem like a bunch of trigger happy drones. "We can't confirm the status of one pilot? Let's throw everything we've got at 'em!"

It was done as more of an overt escalation in the DE, certainly. First

the recon craft went missing

, then

the Ghosts were sent out to investigate that

, and then

the Frontier military was sent out to investigate

that

, and finally

SMS was deployed in the wake of

that

. And

without the Ghosts, it goes recon craft -> Frontier military -> SMS

...which still works, but is obviously more abbreviated for the sake of time (again, if you've seen the DE).

EDIT: hmm...maybe we should be using spoiler space for this, since there have to be some folks who haven't seen the DE and are coming in completely cold...

Edited April 4, 2008 by Bill C.

[Shun]

the ghosts animation

part was skipped, but it was mentioned as part of a dialogue just before the Frontier military was sent out. so the event DID happen just like before in the deculture ver

"After the RE/8, the unmanned fighter team was destroyed"

just before the vf-171 comes on screen

Edited April 4, 2008 by Shun

[Bill C.]

Thank you, Shun. And that's why I need subtitles.

That pretty much nails that it was a time thing...out went the Ghosts and in went more Alto and Sheryl...

Edited April 4, 2008 by Bill C.

[Gubaba]

Just out of curiosity, how many commercial breaks does the average broadcast episode have in Japan?

Three. One right after the OP, one in the middle, and one right before the ED.

And I'm still waiting for a DivX version so I can actually SEE the blasted thing...

[veffidas]

Ah, yes, it is in the dialogue. Well, that nullifies my argument there. I can't quite say it significantly changes my view of the rather high-speed pacing, however. Cut after cut, without time for reasonable flow, is still a little bit jarring. Maybe the DVD edit will get it right with the additions of the broadcast edit.

A DivX 6.6 version is supposedly already out. (Eh, it looks like it's the Deculture Edition.)

Edited April 4, 2008 by veffidas

[Gubaba]

Ah, yes, it is in the dialogue. Well, that nullifies my argument there. I can't quite say it significantly changes my view of the rather high-speed pacing, however. Cut after cut, without time for reasonable flow, is still a little bit jarring. Maybe the DVD edit will get it right with the additions of the broadcast edit.

A DivX 6.6 version is supposedly already out. (Eh, it looks like it's the Deculture Edition.)

Stupid Aniserv...releasing the Deculture Edition on same day that the "official" version airs...

BTW...what should we call the new version? I'm opting for the "Culture" version or the "Yaak" version...

EDIT: Or maybe the "Gorgeous Delicious" version...?

Edited April 4, 2008 by Gubaba

[MisaForever]

Stupid Aniserv...releasing the Deculture Edition on same day that the "official" version airs...

BTW...what should we call the new version? I'm opting for the "Culture" version or the "Yaak" version...

EDIT: Or maybe the "Gorgeous Delicious" version...?

How about the Nyan Nyan version

[Duke Togo]

You can tell by the original design of the episode that the commercial break was *supposed* to take after the Nyan Nyan/fountains shooting up into the air scene. Instead it goes into the poorly recut fighter/concert scene, and then goes to commercial during it. Once again, whoever edited that together should be tossed out on their behind, because that's really rather shoddy editing and storytelling.

Someone asked earlier about the guys being inside the concert hall in one scene, and outside the next. Basically, Sheryl gives them the smile when she enters, then bitches to the NUNS chick (whose name I have yet to commit to memory) and her assistant about them being there. When we see them outside, they complain about being forced to "dress" outside for their performance. Sheryl is, in ever sense of the word, a diva.

Completely forgetting about the original fighter/concert cut, the new concert sequence is a mess in its own right. They totally lose the fx on the whip turning into a mic, and the audio isn't as good on the song (though it may be they are going for more of a "live" effect). She then abruptly goes from being on the stage, to up in the air, to flying (after Alto catchers her), then she's back on the stage and Alto is putting the camera on Ranka (when did he drop off Sherly and go on casually filming the audience?). Its suddenly as if none of the incident and near disaster up in the air ever happened. I just don't see how this was allowed to go to TV like this.

Oh, and how about WTF did the paper airplane come from in the recut version? He just takes off into the sky, and hey, paper airplane flying up here!

Edited April 4, 2008 by Duke Togo

[Duke Togo]

Is there some precedent I am unaware of on Japanese TV where the first episode of a series can't be longer than the rest of the series? We can't have an hour long first episode special?

[azrael]

Reminder

Spoiler tags are to be used only for the 1st 24 hours. After that, you can post spoiler tag-less.

*looks at clock* It's been 24 hours since it aired....

Names for the 2 versions:

Deculture edition = Deculture edition

The episode that aired this week = Broadcast version

[sketchley]

You can tell by the original design of the episode that the commercial break was *supposed* to take after the Nyan Nyan/fountains shooting up into the air scene. Instead it goes into the poorly recut fighter/concert scene, and then goes to commercial during it. Once again, whoever edited that together should be tossed out on their behind, because that's really rather shoddy editing and storytelling.

Though, I dislike the music replacement in the official version of Eps 01, I understand why the CM break takes place at that time. It's fairly common practice to build up to a cliffhanger, to keep viewers glued to their chairs, and watching the sponsors/CM/last half of the episode. Ask yourself: when was the last time a TV show cut to CMs at a dramatic low-point?

[Duke Togo]

Though, I dislike the music replacement in the official version of Eps 01, I understand why the CM break takes place at that time. It's fairly common practice to build up to a cliffhanger, to keep viewers glued to their chairs, and watching the sponsors/CM/last half of the episode. Ask yourself: when was the last time a TV show cut to CMs at a dramatic low-point?

I have to disagree, it just doesn't flow. At all. You know something is going on in space, you know the concert is going to start. That is why you are sticking around.

[sketchley]

Is there some precedent I am unaware of on Japanese TV where the first episode of a series can't be longer than the rest of the series? We can't have an hour long first episode special?

We had the next best thing, back in December. There's no precedent per se, as lots of TV shows run double or triple length during this time of year. Though, they do displace other TV shows. It's highly disruptive... mind you, the shows I'm referring to are live action shows. Animation requires a whole additional week or months worth of labour to produce another 15 to 20 minutes of animation. I'd prefer a regular length first episode, followed by episodes that don't have a noticeable drop in animation quality.

[MisaForever]

Man this sounds bad. I'm dreading watching it now.

[MisaForever]

Oh, and Sheryl's liaison, NUNS officer, is Lieutenant Glass. C'mon guys, she's HOT! She's like Misa incarnate

[Sergorn]

Is there some precedent I am unaware of on Japanese TV where the first episode of a series can't be longer than the rest of the series? We can't have an hour long first episode special?

I don't think so. There are times where they basically drop the opening and ending themes in order to cut in extra animation (It happened on some Aquarion episodes for that matter), but i don't recall of specificailly longer episodes like the DC Edition was.

Of course it's not that big a deal in this case, the DE Episode still exists so.....

Though I'd love to have a "definitive version" that would combine both since there are some cool stuff on the broadcast version too.

-Sergorn

[Bill C.]

Considering the previous comments in-thread to a "DVD edit" (?)...perhaps the inevitable R2 DVD release will either include both versions or end up being some sort of mashup of both...

[Gubaba]

Is there some precedent I am unaware of on Japanese TV where the first episode of a series can't be longer than the rest of the series? We can't have an hour long first episode special?

The only exception I'm aware of was the "Macross Special" in '82...but, as we all know, that was pretty much unplanned. And it wasn't really an hour-long episode.

And I think Legend of the Galactic Heroes started with an hour-long movie as well, but that was an OVA...

[Duke Togo]

I'm fairly certain we'll see a third cut on DVD and what not. As a whole, I love the first episode (that being their combined content), and the Deculture cut left me very excited for the series. I don't all of a sudden hate Macross F, I just don't understand WTF they did with the broadcast cut of the first episode.

[MisaForever]

I'm fairly certain we'll see a third cut on DVD and what not. As a whole, I love the first episode (that being their combined content), and the Deculture cut left me very excited for the series. I don't all of a sudden hate Macross F, I just don't understand WTF they did with the broadcast cut of the first episode.

So you're saying the Broadcast version isn't FTL or FTW, just sorta MEH

[Mr March]

Well, regardless of preferences and those who haven't overindulged in the DE (acknowledging veffidas) I don't see this new edit as lacking anything. However, I do see it as failing to bring any appreciable gain to the series. I could watch either version, DE or BV, with near equal enjoyment. The only problem I have with the broadcast edit is that I now wish both versions were edited into something larger. A hour episode sounds great to me

Edited April 4, 2008 by Mr March

[Bill C.]

So you're saying the Broadcast version isn't FTL or FTW, just sorta MEH

Call it...the marketing-friendly version.

[kensei]

Thanks Komilia. And Welcome to Macross World.

AC

They actually published a reference book? Bizarre. Well, I've not read it, but I bet my site is better

It is. I just visited it and it was sh!t. I'm not just talking about the content either.

[Gubaba]

It is. I just visited it and it was sh!t. I'm not just talking about the content either.

But it's worth emphasizing that the content is, as you say, sh!t.

[Komilia F Jenius]

I finally watvh the first episode and kinda liked more the DE except for the Nya Nya comercial it was funny

[Mr March]

LOL @ kensei and Gubaba. But in all honesty, I can't disagree. Crap indeed

[Gubaba]

LOL @ kensei and Gubaba. But in all honesty, I can't disagree. Crap indeed

Still, it's got you beat in one area...I've looked all over your otherwise beautiful site, and I can't find the YF-1R anywhere!