Macross Frontier Episode 1 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Ozma]

Hello Macross fans! I might as well make my first post here, since many of us will see this as a historic moment for the Macross franchise.

Like others, I'm hoping and waiting for something from Big West that captures the magic of the original series. Hopefully Macross F delivers!

*patiently waits for fansubs*

[Dante74]

Ooh, crowded thread. 'scuse me coming' through.

This is great, went to bed last night thinking I'd miss the party completely, but here it is waiting for me when I wake up ready to go.

Downloading now and I'll be seeding for the rest of the day untill I fire up the old Xbox tonight.

[eugimon]

Ok, I don't want to be Mr Negative here, but they really butchered this episode. And its not just what they took out, its how it was edited, which is to say whoever did it should be fired. George Lucas couldn't have done a worse edit. Most of the continuity between scenes is all but gone. Its like a bunch of scenes just stuck together, there is really little flow to it. The fight sequence/concert is now totally underwhelming (and, once again, horribly edited).

I understand it had to be cut down to be 24 minutes or whatever, but they did a horrid job. A bunch of us could get together with editing software and do a far superior job.

I'm not even tempted to watch this again. I'll stick with the Deculture edition.

thanks for the quick review. Now I can stop downloading...

[Aegis!]

Long time since I last posted something here, been waiting for this day and didn't want to go through all the waiting and speculation.

Anyway, I just finished watching the RAW (I'm also seeding for my fellow MW'ers). I've gotta say I didn't actually dislike this edited version of Ep1, but I much prefer the deculture edition, the pacing was just out of sinc, almost seemed like it was rushed into release. So I'm with Duke Togo on this one. Having said that, this episode did have some nice new additions, although im not sure if loosing the other scenes was worth it. Good thing is, we have 2 versions of this Ep to enjoy, so everything is fine.

Also, the OP & ED didn't impress at all and it actually wasn't the music, I personally liked both songs, it was the animation sequences that didn't really do it for me.Maybe I was expecting something a bit more epic or engaging, even dynamite had a better OP (that was the last macross series to have one if I remember right).

Now I'm eagerly waiting for Ep2, I'm really exited about this new series.

[Jasonc]

It's gonna seem like a poor edit because we've seen the deculture edition so many times, it now seems like anything out of place from what we've come to view is really an eye sore. It's not such a bad edit, but a little strange for me personally, being used to the one we've seen for over a few months now. Not a bad version for a first opener. It still makes me want to watch the next episode.

[Isamu test pilot]

Wow man, I love it, but something in the ending do not like me because is a kinda short

[ssfsx17]

I've gotta agree that the Deculture edition is better, although at least we got to see more of Alto's and Sheryl's true personalities in this edition. I have a feeling that the next time Alto decides to be a maverick, it'll be in a VF-25, and his friend will lose a lot more than just a wing.

[Bill C.]

From what little I picked up with my lack of Japanese, this version of the first episode seemed to be aimed more deliberately at setting up the apparent core triangle than the DC version was (mostly through the added scenes with

Alto and Sheryl

). But, yes, the stuff that got left out was all one huge glaring omission if you've seen the DC version.

Still not crazy about the official ED, by the way. Ah, well...can't win 'em all.

And as I pack myself off to bed, here--have some avatars I threw together for kicks:

[Zero_G]

Hey everyone, new guy here.

Just saw the normal tv broadcast version and it is a different cut than the one shown before earlier, so if you didn't have an excuse to watch the first episode again there you go.

From the opening sequence you can see three things: a yet to be announced valk (you can see it's silhouette), the Koenig Monster (at least, I'm pretty sure it is), and the Macross Frontier in it's transformed state.

Production quality is excellent, especially for a TV series, let's hope they can keep it up for the remainder!

[farmer_yohei]

I will say this for this version of the episode, if I had never seen the decultured episode, this one would have been perfectly acceptable. Its not bad, the only seen that seemed rushed to me was the introduction of Alto, other than that it was fine. Way to go Macross!!!

Now, if only they had stuck with the Do You Remember Love ending, cuz I do and i loved it.

[GGemini]

This image reminds me a LOT of M Zero...

[Sergorn]

Just saw the RAW. Awww well it was good... I probably wouldn't have any beef with it if I hadn't seen the Deculture Edition but... yeah I thought the DE was much better.

The DE did a good of establishing the characters in the first few minutes - here everything is pretty cut so it doesn't establish much and feels kinda rushed. The addition at the concert were neat but COME ON.... the whole Don't Be Late/Mecha action scene was a marvel of action and editing in the DE - why did they changed it ? And they cut some of the VF-171 action with it !

Can't wait for Episode 2 anyway, but I'd argue they should just have stuck the DE as the actual first épisode. Oh well...

-Sergorn

[Zinjo]

Wow, you can definitely tell Kawamori had the final cut! Actions sequences were very much like Zero.

I get the sense that the Deculture Edition aka Director's (Yasuhito Kikuchi) cut was much more character oriented and is a good compliment to the actual series, giving extra background that the series episode didn't give, much like the Manga is doing.

They rearranged the order of several scenes, some to the betterment of the episode and others came off a bit confusing (why were they backstage and THEN go out into the park to change???). Lanca changing into her school uniform after work and then immediately, the next time we see her she's in her cream dress???

The concert footage was altered quite a bit with several additional sequences and I too kind of liked the concert music accompanying the VF-171 launch, it gave the sequence better energy.

Now granted the Deculture edition didn't have to accomodate for tv commercials so it did have more time to play with than "First Contact" did. However the dogfight sequences had a greater viceral intensity to them than Yasuhito Kikuchi's version (I tend to believe this is the final cut Kawamori approved).

Scenes missing between First Contact and Deculture:

1. Most of the Galaxy Liner sequence

2. Ghost defeat by the Varja and CIC scenes

3. Roof scene between the acrobatic team

4. Extended fight sequence between the Varja and the VF-171s, including CIC scenes

5. Alto's scolding of Sheryl after the evacuation order is given

6. The red Varja using it's big gun to blow a hole in the dome of Island 1

7. Gilliam's fighter flight was trimmed a bit as well

Added Scenes:

1. Backstage of the concert

2. Extended concert footage

I enjoyed it very much, however the Deculture episode was longer because it was a teaser episode without any commercial time allotment.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Zinjo

[wolfx]

Did they fix the missing V-stabs on the VF-117s or did they completely removed the scenes due to the mistake?

I'm not gonna download the RAW as bandwidth + diskspace is currently on a premium on my computer. >_<

But yeah agreed that from the changes you guys are discussing that its a shame that it happened. I thought the Don't Be Late scene was awesome. Oh well...who knows. There might be an even more epic space battle with it later on.

[Sergorn]

Oh yeah I forgot to add : the eyecatch was downright awesome

-Sergorn

[veffidas]

This is a review coming from someone who hasn't watched the Deculture edition since it's release.

The series OP animation sequences are pretty characteristic of today's anime OPs: a lot of characters floating in the foreground, with animation from the rest of series in the background. It doesn't feel terribly "Macross-ish" but it's indicative of today's anime presentation style. This broadcast cut, unfortunately, was unable to leave the viewer in a sense of psuedo-realism, i.e. allowing the person to distinguish time properly. As others have said, it was straight from one cut to another; there weren't enough lead-in and lead-out scenes (and time) to allow the the viewer to get comfortable with the story and seqeunces.

There wasn't enough background either; for instance, why was the fleet engaging all of its battleship so suddenly against an enemy the viewer (and possibly the U.N. Spacy fleet) knew so little about? There was no window into the reasoning and decisions made to launch the attack. It somewhat leaves you with a feeling that U.N. Spacy was like "Oh, there's something out there? Let's attack it!"

Also, concerning the experienced pilot (in Roy's colors), I really had no idea why he was aiming for the red enemy. This cut didn't leave me with the feeling that the red enemy was a Gigile or Millia worthy of special targeting. Sheryl's fall also seemed a little unnatural. I'm assuming the shock wave from the attack was what caused Alto's teammate to error from the cuts, but simply taking the animation as is made it look like the pilot himself was a dunce, crashing into Alto. So was Sheryl's fall a result of Alto coming at her or the shock wave? All in all, it just didn't seem like there was a particularly good reason for that scene to happen, save moving along the (possible love) story.

And, yes, the pacing was too fast. It left me wondering whether my media player was processing the stream faster than it should have been, and I had to view it in two different players.

All in all, I just don't think this episode allow the viewer to get comfortable with the potential upcoming story, though it did create and aura of action and suspense (not a terribly good one though). Hopefully, the subsequent episodes take things a little slower and properly set up scenes with timing and animation.

[Tobi54]

My take...

I see why everyone didnt like this better than Deculture, but IMO it was meant to be this way on purpose, why would they use the whole "action choreographed to music" sequence so early into a series that has yet to develop it's story line, a sequence like that would make a bigger impact later in the series when all the characters have been stablished, the only reasoning for using it so early would be to tease the audience which is why it was used to the teaser cut and removed from the actual episode IMO.

The only problem I saw with the editing was the way you see Lanka changing and then showing up with a different dress at the show, not enough time to show the transition, obviously she was watching the news reel in the morning before school, and the show was later during that day, as for the guys being backstage and then going to the park, they complained that they didnt get a dressing room, so it makes sense to leave the venue and go change somewhere else, unless of course they dont mind changing infront of a bunch of strangers.

All in all, I can understand why the changes were made, now looking forward to the next episode.

[veffidas]

The only problem I saw with the editing was the way you see Lanka changing and then showing up with a different dress at the show, not enough time to show the transition, obviously she was watching the news reel in the morning before school, and the show was later during that day, as for the guys being backstage and then going to the park, they complained that they didnt get a dressing room, so it makes sense to leave the venue and go change somewhere else, unless of course they dont mind changing infront of a bunch of strangers.

The whole sequence with Ranka getting to the concert (before meeting Alto) was wrought with bad edits. When she gets off the subway, she was overrun be everyone else getting off. And immediately after she's seen exiting the station. There simply wasn't enough time for the viewer to absorb and enjoy (and laugh at) Ranka getting stomped over. Also, once she does get into the crowded area a pops up and down for a view, she starts running off and then is immediate in a totally empty back alley with no transitioning; crowds simply don't die off like that.

Furthermore, When Alto questions "Nyan-nyan?" Ranka immediately goes into the dance; no time for her to move from being right under Alto's nose to be that far away for Alto to have a full-body view of her dance jingle - even if it was only a hop-step away (i.e. they should have animated it).

(Edit: It look's like these events played out exactly the same way in the Deculture edition. So this is moot.)

Basically, the flow of time was really screwed up in this broadcast cut. I'll need to re-watch the Deculture edition to see if it was any different, but the timing here was just too unnatural for comfort.

Also, has anyone seen Macross Compendium lately? It's going Wiki. (I had to look up Gigile's name for my last post.)

Edited April 4, 2008 by veffidas

[Kelsain]

Suppressing the madness as I wait for the fansub. I know basically what would be happening but I want the full experience of understanding what the characters say. Hopefully soon, we'll establish a fairly reliable fansub schedule and those of us holding out won't have to sit through the uncertainty.

Ah well, if it's not out today, at least we've got Galactica to keep us busy.

[Renato]

I enjoyed it very much, however the Deculture episode was longer because it was a teaser episode without any commercial time allotment.

No, it definitely did run with commercials.

[Tobi54]

The whole sequence with Ranka getting to the concert (before meeting Alto) was wrought with bad edits. When she gets off the subway, she was overrun be everyone else getting off. And immediately after she's seen exiting the station. There simply wasn't enough time for the viewer to absorb and enjoy (and laugh at) Ranka getting stomped over. Also, once she does get into the crowded area a pops up and down for a view, she starts running off and then is immediate in a totally empty back alley with no transitioning; crowds simply don't die off like that.

Furthermore, When Alto questions "Nyan-nyan?" Ranka immediately goes into the dance; no time for her to move from being right under Alto's nose to be that far away for Alto to have a full-body view of her dance jingle - even if it was only a hop-step away (i.e. they should have animated it).

(Edit: It look's like these events played out exactly the same way in the Deculture edition. So this is moot.)

Basically, the flow of time was really screwed up in this broadcast cut. I'll need to re-watch the Deculture edition to see if it was any different, but the timing here was just too unnatural for comfort.

Also, has anyone seen Macross Compendium lately? It's going Wiki. (I had to look up Gigile's name for my last post.)

They do, so I guess you had the same problem with the Deculture cut? I agree though that there wasn't enough time to do with this episode what I guess they wanted to do, the editing was too fast in order to fit everything in, is that a problem? yes, is it as big as problem as people are putting out to be? not at all, I'm all for being picky, but this is anime, not rocket science, it's not going to be perfect.

[crasis]

As I think back on the episode now, I can't help but wonder how I would have felt had I not seen the Deculture Edition. Would it have been confusing with all the plot rushing to virgin eyes? My mind kept trying to place the cut scenes back into place, and certain continuity problems definitely popped up (the acrobats being backstage one moment and then going outside to change into their x-gears really stood out, along with Lanka's clothing goofs, etc.). I'm just glad we had the chance to see two cuts of the episode, as I don't mind double dipping to see all the good parts. I wonder how they'll release this on official dvds?

The eyecatch/Nyan Nyan commercial was absolutely brilliant and worth all the long hours of searching and frustration last night!

One thing, though: was this file encoded weird or something? My mac nearly died trying to processs this thing, and would stutter a LOT during any concert/action scenes. I have a pretty powerful iMac that I use for heavy design work, but for some reason it couldn't handle this file. What gives?

[LinxCrossq]

Just finished watching the RAW. It was pretty good, I agree not as good as DE version. I think this is the case of can't watch only one version, both of them have something to offer. Hopefully on the DVD release we'll get a definite version that combines DE with this new one.

[veffidas]

With specific reference to these events, yes. However, I'd say that their flaws were probably exacerbated by the quick-paced edits from the rest of the broadcast cut.

Like I said in my initial post, the wasn't enough backstory in this cut to explain the actions of the M-Galaxy/Frontier fleet. Why were they launching an all-out attack on an enemy and threat they spent virtually no time to assess (the Deculture edition actually handles this)?

There are also a few other events that just make little sense either from the broadcast edit. The paper airplane that Alto catches just *happens* to be there, flying idly among the clouds for Alto to catch, while Alto actually throws it there himself in the Deculture edition.

As I said in my first post, they need to manage the pace better in the subsequent episodes and take the time to explain things. Otherwise, it's really going to be lacking in story and will simply be action, action, action.

[Nexx Stalker]

Yep, EP1 seems rushed, but we are biased by having seen the DE.

I did enjoy the OP very much. Now that he show has started (I'm drooling over it), however, I'd like to point out a few things I don't like:

1) Character designs (lame)

2) character animation (poor animation)

3) Zentradi girl with giant boobs (come on...)

4) Ozma. I't not him I don't like, I don't like the fact that he's probably doomed

So, now I want to see that VF1j in action (soaring high with the old UN spacy logo)!

[Shun]

Ok, I don't want to be Mr Negative here, but they really butchered this episode. And its not just what they took out, its how it was edited, which is to say whoever did it should be fired. George Lucas couldn't have done a worse edit. Most of the continuity between scenes is all but gone. Its like a bunch of scenes just stuck together, there is really little flow to it. The fight sequence/concert is now totally underwhelming (and, once again, horribly edited).

I understand it had to be cut down to be 24 minutes or whatever, but they did a horrid job. A bunch of us could get together with editing software and do a far superior job.

I'm not even tempted to watch this again. I'll stick with the Deculture edition.

totally agree with what u said.

the editing was horrible, very out of pace and feels very rushed.

very disappointed, but still looking forward to ep2. hope they do a better job next time.

[crasis]

Another thing I noticed this time around: Ozma Lee is voiced by Katsuyuki Konishi, aka KAMINA (Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann)!!! That's some serious hotbloodedness right there!

[MisaForever]

Great. I'm dreading getting home and watching this now since it'll be done downloading. Let me ask.... I can't be sure I've seen the Deculture edition or not. The one I downloaded and have is the Shinsen sub. Was that it?

[azrael]

I actually preferred some of the character interaction in the broadcast version. The original scene where Alto confronts Sheryl while she is getting in the car makes a bit more sense this time because Alto had more interaction with her than we saw in the Deculture Edition. Also the park scene makes a bit more sense and adds to Alto's frustration with Sheryl. The Deculture edition just had the park scene, and I believe Director Kikuchi wanted to emphasize Alto's frustration with Sheryl a bit more.

[chrono]

The worst part of the situation with the first episode is that there will also be the DVD edited episode. So the fan base will have to juggle 3 first episode shows.

[Shun]

why did Ozma say "Ranka, finally this day has arrived" (after receiving orders for victor 3)?

sorry if this has been answered before, but i didn't notice this until today

it's also in the deculture version. >.<

Edited April 4, 2008 by Shun

[terry the lone wolf]

Great. I'm dreading getting home and watching this now since it'll be done downloading. Let me ask.... I can't be sure I've seen the Deculture edition or not. The one I downloaded and have is the Shinsen sub. Was that it?

Sounds like you have the Deculture Edition. Anirena has the official one no subs though.

I thought DE one was little bit better but I did like the extended concert scene. I guess it's a case of give & take.

[MisaForever]

Sounds like you have the Deculture Edition. Anirena has the official one no subs though.

I thought DE one was little bit better but I did like the extended concert scene. I guess it's a case of give & take.

Ok thanks, I thought I did too while listening to everyone talk about it. Thanks!

[Gubaba]

Great. I'm dreading getting home and watching this now since it'll be done downloading. Let me ask.... I can't be sure I've seen the Deculture edition or not. The one I downloaded and have is the Shinsen sub. Was that it?

That's the Deculture Edition. The new one hasn't been subbed yet.

[MisaForever]

Just out of curiosity, how many commercial breaks does the average broadcast episode have in Japan?