Macross Frontier Episode 1 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Shouta]

"Triangler" and "Don't Be Late" have both been transcribed at gabrielarobin.com :

Don't be Late: http://gabrielarobin.com/165/macross-f-web...-be-late-lyrics

Triangler: http://gabrielarobin.com/186/what-bout-my-...riangler-lyrics (with improvements in the comments)

I made an edit about these above but I'll post them again just in case someone missed it or skimmed it. These are fan transcriptions so their accuracy won't be 100% (nor will mine). There's an interesting little phenomenon with songs that heavily feature JP and English in them that occurs. I've seen cases where the JP fans get all the JP lyrics right but screw up the English ones and vice versa for English fans. It's rather hilarious.

At any rate, arguing about them is rather moot until the official lyrics are out.

However, a more serious flaw that I find with the recent AiA I-Z release, is that it doesn't seem to be properly encoded/contained.

Using a Mac, Quicktime with Perian can't open it, and MPlayer has issues seeking and representing the the full length in the time bar. I don't use VLC on either Windows or Mac OS X, and my view is that a file should work on all media players. On the other hand, the Deculture edition from AiA I-Z plays fine. It's somewhat amazing the I took that screenshot using the boradcast sub.

It should be be the same. The same encoder did the work so there shouldn't be an issue. However, there was somebody that asked us about it last night and it turned out he had a codec issue. If you're playing on Windows, I'd recommend not using VLC because it uses internal codecs that didn't to be screwy. I'd recommend downloading the Core Community Codec Pack and using Media Player Classic. I had no issues with playing it myself and those are the only things I have on my computer.

Also, the release refers to Michel as both Mikhail and Michelle, and that's going to confuse a whole heck of alot of people.

Now that you mention something, I noticed a really bad inconsistency in the show. If Michel is indeed Mr. Playboy with glasses then they're either messing it up in the dialogue or they mislabeled him on the website.

He's listed as Mihaeru (in JP) on the official website and was referred to as that in the Deculture Edition of the show by Altoh. However, he's referred to as Misheru (in JP of course) in the Broadcast edition by Luca for some reason.

You got a site that points out the official romanization of the name? I haven't found one myself carousing the news sites or the official one.

Edited April 8, 2008 by Shouta

[Bill C.]

Apart from the one wonky line ("A round of applause, please"?) I thought the subtitles weren't that bad. Lyrics notwithstanding, anyway--but my virtually nonexistent Japanese skills mean I won't gig them on that too much.

And the wait for episode 2 goes on...

[veffidas]

I don't think you read my statements properly; I'm assuming you're not familiar with playback/testing on the Mac platform. I basically said I was against VLC and that playback with other popular/mainstream Mac media players is flawed. Something is wrong with the file, especially since the Deculture version plays fine. I've also download your release twice.

Edited April 8, 2008 by veffidas

[Duke Togo]

The only parts I didn't get in the actual song is the awful English. The Japanese I actually got. If you're nowhere near fluent in Japanese, I wouldn't comment about sloppy work, in general.

I know enough that "hayaku" doesn't mean "just do it".

Fact is, for a native english speaker (which I am), transcribing a song in english by ear is hard enough to do in many cases. Otherwise, we wouldn't have such famous mistakes as "excuse me while I kiss this guy". Finding the lyrics for Don't Be Late as of April 2008 isn't anywhere near as difficult as it was last December. I for one was expecting a fresh translation of the song in this release, and was disappointed not to get it. That said, none of this is anywhere near as bad os the crap I had to deal with when it came to the Gurren Lagann releases, including a few groups that felt the need to liberally sprinkle f-bombs throughout the show.

[Shouta]

I don't think you read my statements properly; I'm assuming you're not familiar with playback/testing on the Mac platform. I basically said I was against VLC and that playback with other popular/mainstream Mac media players is flawed. Something is wrong with the file.

Oops, I just got up myself so I only read your comment quickly. My bad. My comment was for Windows. I don't know anything about Mac playback myself. I'll keep my ear open about other people having issues about it.

If you still have problems with it, I'll be glad to encode a, hopefully, fixed version for you so you can play it.

[Duke Togo]

He's listed as Mihaeru (in JP) on the official website and was referred to as that in the Deculture Edition of the show by Altoh. However, he's referred to as Misheru (in JP of course) in the Broadcast edition by Luca for some reason.

Egan Loo lists him as "Mikhail Buran". I think we have a case where his name is being said differently by different characters. But whether it is Mikhail or Michel, they are referring to the same character in the first episode.

[Shouta]

I know enough that "hayaku" doesn't mean "just do it".

Fact is, for a native english speaker (which I am), transcribing a song in english by ear is hard enough to do in many cases. Otherwise, we wouldn't have such famous mistakes as "excuse me while I kiss this guy". Finding the lyrics for Don't Be Late as of April 2008 isn't anywhere near as difficult as it was last December. I for one was expecting a fresh translation of the song in this release, and was disappointed not to get it. That said, none of this is anywhere near as bad os the crap I had to deal with when it came to the Gurren Lagann releases, including a few groups that felt the need to liberally sprinkle f-bombs throughout the show.

Actually, "hayaku" can me "just do it" depending on context. It literally means fast but depending on combination and context it can be that. I'm not sure what part you're referring to though, I'm kind of tired as is and it's not like I have the thing memorized.

Ooh, Gurren Lagann. I remember that. I seriously don't know why folks tossed the f-bombs in there.

At any rate, kinks will be ironed out. If the song shows up again, I'll probably retranslate it. This was mostly a patchwork release because we had the script from the Deculture Edition and fixed it for this. I didn't adjust anything in the old scenes because they were pretty much right the first time (sans the Up to the heavens thing, what language is that anyway!?) I was contemplating just not doing the Broadcast Edition at all because it was fairly similar to the Deculture Edition, heh.

Egan Loo lists him as "Mikhail Buran". I think we have a case where his name is being said differently by different characters. But whether it is Mikhail or Michel, they are referring to the same character in the first episode.

Combined with my paragraph above and the fact that Michel was said for the first time in the Deculture Edition at that point, it's a rather easy mistake. Stupid script writers.

Edited April 8, 2008 by Shouta

[Duke Togo]

You know, I wonder if this isn't a case of early work done on the show for the Deculture edition that was never fixed. Voice actors not getting a name right consistently. Its like everyone in Star Wars never saying "Han" the same way.

What bugs me (and its a silly thing) is that they re-recorded the song for the concert scene (to either fit the changed scene/running time, or to give it more of a "live" feel), and they removed the fx. The "crop turns into a mic" sound is totally missing. And, in the end, the quality of the new vocals doesn't match that of the second song she sings at the concert before the sirens go off.

[Duke Togo]

Ooh, Gurren Lagann. I remember that. I seriously don't know why folks tossed the f-bombs in there.

I hated it, I had to download each release every week just to see which was was the least mangled.

[sketchley]

Now that you mention something, I noticed a really bad inconsistency in the show. If Michel is indeed Mr. Playboy with glasses then they're either messing it up in the dialogue or they mislabeled him on the website.

He's listed as Mihaeru (in JP) on the official website and was referred to as that in the Deculture Edition of the show by Altoh. However, he's referred to as Misheru (in JP of course) in the Broadcast edition by Luca for some reason.

You got a site that points out the official romanization of the name? I haven't found one myself carousing the news sites or the official one.

http://www.macrossf.com/character/chara04.html ミハエル　ブラン

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9E%E3%....BA.BA.E7.89.A9 Also with ミハエル　ブラン

If you ask me, Luca is teasing him by calling him "Michelle". There seems to be a them with the teasing of boys as girls in the show...

Just a note on something I picked up about 4 months ago on the character: his name might be correctly translated (not romanized) as Mikhail. As in Mikhail Gorbachev (See ミハイル・ゴルバチョフ http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9F%E3%...%83%A7%E3%83%95 )

[Shouta]

http://www.macrossf.com/character/chara04.html ミハエル　ブラン

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9E%E3%....BA.BA.E7.89.A9 Also with ミハエル　ブラン

If you ask me, Luca is teasing him by calling him "Michelle". There seems to be a them with the teasing of boys as girls in the show...

Just a note on something I picked up about 4 months ago on the character: his name might be correctly translated (not romanized) as Mikhail. As in Mikhail Gorbachev (See ミハイル・ゴルバチョフ http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9F%E3%...%83%A7%E3%83%95 )

Brain fart, I meant translated. I saw the website and the JP wiki entry already.

If Luca actually was making fun of him, that would be interesting. That'd also be really f'ing confusing to people watching the show.

But yeah, actually the encoder changed it to Mikhail back when we were doing the Deculture Edition. He instantly recognized it and changed it himself.

Edited April 8, 2008 by Shouta

[Zinjo]

Oops, I just got up myself so I only read your comment quickly. My bad. My comment was for Windows. I don't know anything about Mac playback myself. I'll keep my ear open about other people having issues about it.

If you still have problems with it, I'll be glad to encode a, hopefully, fixed version for you so you can play it.

If you guys are using the aniserv 800MB 1920x1080 Bluray version of the episode, the MP4 is flawed and doesn't play properly on many common players.

I've tried a few programs to get into the guts of the container and all have come back as "file not found" or "format error".

The 1080x720 release works fine.

If anyone hasn't downloaded the Community Codec Pack, get it! It is what most MKV releases are using these days...

[Sergorn]

Well I finally got to saw the episode subbed.

I must say I liked it better the second time. Overall I still like the DE better, but that one is good too. I really love the extended Sheryl concert... and on the whole eck, I just wish we could have a "definitive" version combining both episodes.

Also the more I watch the opening the more I love it, even more so with the translation of the song !

Can't wait for Episode 2

-Sergorn

[Kelsain]

So, at this stage, what's the best sub, the AiA or IZ?

[Duke Togo]

So, at this stage, what's the best sub, the AiA or IZ?

[AiA I-Z] is the sub.

[Kelsain]

Ah, OK, I read it wrong... I thought it was 2 different ones. I'll grab it when I get home.

[Tobi54]

Ok,

So I watched the previews for EP2 and coundn't figure out what was chasing the VF-25 when it's "sliding" vertically against a building, the shot is a couple of seconds long but it's one of the money shots, so I'm sure you guys know which one I'm talking about, anyway, I can't believe after watching the DE episode so many times I missed the fact that 2 of the smaller Vajra made it after the red one, before the VF-25 shows up, did you guys catch this? Im probably just slow

mf.bmp

mf2.bmp

mf3.bmp

[Renato]

http://www.macrossf.com/character/chara04.html ミハエル　ブラン

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9E%E3%....BA.BA.E7.89.A9 Also with ミハエル　ブラン

If you ask me, Luca is teasing him by calling him "Michelle". There seems to be a them with the teasing of boys as girls in the show...

Just a note on something I picked up about 4 months ago on the character: his name might be correctly translated (not romanized) as Mikhail. As in Mikhail Gorbachev (See ミハイル・ゴルバチョフ http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9F%E3%...%83%A7%E3%83%95 )

But in the manga he is consistently called "Michel". In fact, in the character profiles his name is labelled ミハエル　and then （ミシェル） underneath it in brackets. Or maybe it was the other way around. Anyway, they've got both in there. Graham put a scan of the page, I'll try and find it.

And in the anime it's not only Luca that calls him Michel, Gilliam also refers to him as Michel. So I really don't know what the hell is going on. PICK A DAMN NAME, PEOPLE!!

[Renato]

Here we go. This should show what I'm talking about. Check out Mikhail's profile in the pic below.

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?s=&a...st&p=563494

Edited April 8, 2008 by Renato

[mikeszekely]

Word on the street is, most groups, if any, will start with episode 2, so no comment on who's better as of yet.

So I guess we go with AIA for broadcast episode one, then wait and see again with two.

[Zinjo]

Shouta,

Which application did you use to encode the MP4?

[wolfx]

Actually, "hayaku" can me "just do it" depending on context. It literally means fast but depending on combination and context it can be that. I'm not sure what part you're referring to though, I'm kind of tired as is and it's not like I have the thing memorized.

Actually it just means "hurry".

Anyway i can see why some people were complaining about the broadcast version but actually I appreciated how it feels less disjointed at some parts, mostly because of the added parts. IE: Alto talking to Sheryl after the concert now actually made more sense since they showed the scene where he saved her thus a kind of "familiarity" was formed otherwise not shown in DE. Also where they were "shooed" from backstage due to Sheryl's biatchness and their act program was simplified. I guess if we never seen the DE version, we won't complain much. Probably the DE version was something the art director wanted to do officially but can't due to time constraints on a broadcast schedule. If they took the missing parts in DE and put them into DE, it would be the best ep 1 but probably be 40 minutes long.

PS: Seems like they never fixed the missing V-stab problem with the VF-171s.

[akt_m]

Any sub at 720p/5.1????

[Kelsain]

I enjoyed both versions, but I liked DE better, primarily for the music. Not just the better rendition of Don't be Late, but really the instrumentals. The opening scene was much more exciting in DE, and also the second half of the attack. That's what I miss most.

And the ghosts... 'cuz I <3 them...

Edit: Wow, I'm not used to torrents going so fast! Hooray for popular, current stuff! I'm used to waiting a day and a half.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Kelsain

[Dio]

If you guys are using the aniserv 800MB 1920x1080 Bluray version of the episode, the MP4 is flawed and doesn't play properly on many common players.

I've tried a few programs to get into the guts of the container and all have come back as "file not found" or "format error".

The 1080x720 release works fine.

If anyone hasn't downloaded the Community Codec Pack, get it! It is what most MKV releases are using these days...

I too had the same issue until I downloaded that codec pack, from then on it worked flawlessly.

Azrael, mind putting up a link to the CCCP (Community Core Codec Pack) website on the first page of the thread? I think that might save several people some grief in the long run.

[Shouta]

Shouta,

Which application did you use to encode the MP4?

I didn't encode this myself but I use the same program. It's Megui.

Actually it just means "hurry". happy.gif

Technically, it means "quickly" but that's mostly splitting hairs. Fast would be Hayai, the root of Hayaku. Adjectives, adverbs, meh details.

Renato: Interesting beans. I'll keep note of it for future eps. Actually, I'll make sure to put a note in the ep so folks know unless it's explained.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Shouta

[sketchley]

Actually it just means "hurry".

As he said - it depends on the context used. What was the context the word appeared in, again?

If you take the dictionary meaning of 早く 「速く」, it is: quick;fast;rapid;early;be quick with ___; quick of ___; quickly;fast;rapidly. Depending on the context, it could become "just do it (without wasting time on anything else." With the just being almost (but not quite) exchangeable with quickly; as in "quickly do it (without wasting time on anything else)". Japanese is the art of speaking implicitly, afterall.

急ぐ would be the one that means hurry;hasten;make haste.

[Wes]

972 seeds/300 peers

[veffidas]

I agree with sketchley and Shouta; it really depends upon the context in which the word is used.

While I don't know for sure (since I'm just guessing), I'm assuming it's the scene where Sheryl is telling Alto to get his ass moving and take her up after the fall on stage. If I'm correct, while I may not have translated it exactly that way, it's still perfectly acceptable as it gets her meaning across.

Edited April 9, 2008 by veffidas

[wolfx]

I won't argue with the Japanese speakers since they officially learnt it after all....but to me the key to understanding japanese is just picking a general english word for their words and it WILL fit all contexts. "Hurry" can be used in a "Just do it" way as well as dozens of other contexts so it should be fine as a translation to non-japanese-speaking people.

Same with "Sumimasen" for "excuse me" but more generally appropriate if you understand it as "sorry for disturbing" then it will make most sense in all contexts.

[Duke Togo]

Yeah, but my feeling with that scene was, it reads differently if you use "hurry" instead of "just do it".

Edited April 9, 2008 by Duke Togo

[veffidas]

I won't argue with the Japanese speakers since they officially learnt it after all....but to me the key to understanding japanese is just picking a general english word for their words and it WILL fit all contexts. "Hurry" can be used in a "Just do it" way as well as dozens of other contexts so it should be fine as a translation to non-japanese-speaking people.

Same with "Sumimasen" for "excuse me" but more generally appropriate if you understand it as "sorry for disturbing" then it will make most sense in all contexts.

While that may be a better way of translating for learning Japanese, it can fail for fansubbing as it will miss out on subtext and tone. I'd go with a fansub that gets the proper tone across than one that simply translates for general understanding.

Yeah, but my feeling with that scene was, it reads different if you use "hurry" instead of "just do it".

Quite true, considering my tone argument. However, to me, to simply translating it as "Hurry!" would probably evoke a more pleading tone. "Just do it" is more adamant, and perhaps likely more indicative of Sheryl's controlling diva personality.

It's really dependent on how the translator views the characters. After all, I doubt the female officer who guided Sheryl to her dressing room literally said "my ass" when commenting to herself on Sheryl, but it gets the tone and point across, which is fair enough. Nothing's going to be perfect.

[Duke Togo]

Ok, serious translation question here, is it "Cranberry Mall" or "Cranberry Mole"? And if it is Mole, well, I have to be honest, I have no idea what that is supposed to be? (I'm not being an ass here, I am truly curious).

[sketchley]

While that may be a better way of translating for learning Japanese, it can fail for fansubbing as it will miss out on subtext and tone. I'd go with a fansub that gets the proper tone across than one that simply translates for general understanding.

<nods> True, true. That way is a good first step when initially learning Japanese. However, Japanese has this concept of getting more finely nuanced (or difficult) the more you learn. The art of translating involves trying to best match what is stated in the original language to something that gets across both the main meaning, and the possible other meanings. Though, in the vast majority of cases, the subtelty gets lots. Hence "lost in translation".

Quite true, considering my tone argument. However, to me, to simply translating it as "Hurry!" would probably evoke a more pleading tone. "Just do it" is more adamant, and perhaps likely more indicative of Sheryl's controlling diva personality.

It's really dependent on how the translator views the characters. After all, I doubt the female officer who guided Sheryl to her dressing room literally said "my ass" when commenting to herself on Sheryl, but it gets the tone and point across, which is fair enough. Nothing's going to be perfect.

Though I may not personally have translated a line into "my ass", it truly is dependent on the translator and their personal diction and world view/outlook. It's hard to find the right match to the character as well as conveying the meaning in terms that the reader (or listener) of the translated language understands. It's actually quite common for movies translated from English into Japanese to completely lose a whole layer or two of subtext and subtle meanings. The same is true for the reverse. My opinion is that if you want the real thing... learn Japanese.

[Shouta]

I agree with sketchley and Shouta; it really depends upon the context in which the word is used.

While I don't know for sure (since I'm just guessing), I'm assuming it's the scene where Sheryl is telling Alto to get his ass moving and take her up after the fall on stage. If I'm correct, while I may not have translated it exactly that way, it's still perfectly acceptable as it gets her meaning across.

Oh, that scene. "Just do it" would be the best way of putting it and the reason why I wrote the line as I did. While the actual word is quickly/hurry/etc, the context of how she's saying it is changes how you would phrase it. Using "Quickly!" or "Hurry!" would literally be correct but wouldn't get the intent of what's being said.

I won't argue with the Japanese speakers since they officially learnt it after all....but to me the key to understanding japanese is just picking a general english word for their words and it WILL fit all contexts. "Hurry" can be used in a "Just do it" way as well as dozens of other contexts so it should be fine as a translation to non-japanese-speaking people.

Same with "Sumimasen" for "excuse me" but more generally appropriate if you understand it as "sorry for disturbing" then it will make most sense in all contexts.

A translator's job is to not only convert words from language into another but to also interpret intent and meaning from what's being said and properly convey it. Using vague or general words is one of the worst things you can do when you translate because you lose of the detail in the language. When you do a general or literal translation, you come up with work that not only reads dryly but also is devoid of the personality it may have had in its original language (whatever it may be).

While that may be a better way of translating for learning Japanese, it can fail for fansubbing as it will miss out on subtext and tone. I'd go with a fansub that gets the proper tone across than one that simply translates for general understanding.

Actually, it's a pretty bad way to translate for learning Japanese. You lose out on context that way and hence lose out on learning the various aspects of the language. Words will mean different things. It happens in English too but we're not too conscience of it.

It's really dependent on how the translator views the characters. After all, I doubt the female officer who guided Sheryl to her dressing room literally said "my ass" when commenting to herself on Sheryl, but it gets the tone and point across, which is fair enough. Nothing's going to be perfect.

Ah, yes, that line. It's one of the those context situations and all. "My ass" was the best translation for her line both because it hits both elements of the line that was being expressed. I mean, I could've translated it literally but I don't think it'd make any sense nor would be it indicative of her feelings on the situation.

Ok, serious translation question here, is it "Cranberry Mall" or "Cranberry Mole"? And if it is Mole, well, I have to be honest, I have no idea what that is supposed to be? (I'm not being an ass here, I am truly curious).

Could be either actually. "Mole" and "Mall" sound essentially the same in Japanese so it's not exactly easy to figure out based on a single line. They could've gone to the mall but seeing as we won't know, it'll never be answered! I went with Mole simply because it sounds like some dessert joint and everyone knows anime schoolgirls like their sweets.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Shouta