Macross Frontier Episode 1 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[veffidas]

A lot goes into a "quality" fansub besides translation. Among others there're: timing, typesetting, karaoke, and encoding/muxing.

My guess on the bottleneck for this episode? Translations of the opening and ending themes. Translating song is quite a bit more difficult than regular speech.

[UN Spacy]

As long as they're doing a good job it'll be worth the wait.

[Gubaba]

A lot goes into a "quality" fansub besides translation. Among others there're: timing, typesetting, karaoke, and encoding/muxing.

My guess on the bottleneck for this episode? Translations of the opening and ending themes. Translating song is quite a bit more difficult than regular speech.

Not necessarily. I've translated quite a few songs, and only a couple of comics and things of that nature.

Of course, I had the lyric booklets, which made the whole enterprise MUCH simpler. I think the biggest problem with songs are if the lyrics are especially weird. I was translating Shiina Ringo, and I was constantly backtracking..."Did she really say he reflected off her LUNGS?" I would imagine that translating Yoko Kanno would have similar perils.

[veffidas]

Not necessarily. I've translated quite a few songs, and only a couple of comics and things of that nature.

Of course, I had the lyric booklets, which made the whole enterprise MUCH simpler. I think the biggest problem with songs are if the lyrics are especially weird. I was translating Shiina Ringo, and I was constantly backtracking..."Did she really say he reflected off her LUNGS?" I would imagine that translating Yoko Kanno would have similar perils.

Currently-airing anime usually don't have lyric books available as the singles/albums usually are released later. And translating from speech and text don't amount to exactly the same thing. One could be illiterate yet be familiar with spoken dialects or vice-versa.

Regardless, I was simply attempting to point out that there are a fair number of logistics that need to be considered besides translation. For instance, due to the nature of the cuts, timing scripts need to be edited in the least. If the concert was extended with a different version of the song sung (I seem to recall a comment to that effect), it needs to be retranslated and re-timed. Some groups looks for quality raws as well, and even attempt to filter the output so that it looks better than the raw originally obtained. Encoding and muxing are also nontrivial with regards to time to release as well. A simple single pass quality-check would reasonably be the length of the episode as well.

Just because much of the material was reused from the Deculture edition doesn't mean that the fansub will come out faster.

[Chronocidal]

Of course, I had the lyric booklets, which made the whole enterprise MUCH simpler. I think the biggest problem with songs are if the lyrics are especially weird. I was translating Shiina Ringo, and I was constantly backtracking..."Did she really say he reflected off her LUNGS?" I would imagine that translating Yoko Kanno would have similar perils.

Worse perils actually.. Kanno tends to be a fan of writing songs in languages that don't actually exist. I think half of the music in Mac+ was that way, especially the stuff at the end concert.

[UN Spacy]

Great. Code Geass already has fansubs for their season premiere.

What the heck is going on?

[MisaForever]

Just a thought but my thoughts are the quicker the fansub, the worse the quality hmm? Just my two cents

[azrael]

Great. Code Geass already has fansubs for their season premiere.

Perhaps because Code Geass is infinitely popular....at the moment.

[Sergorn]

Perhaps because Code Geass is infinitely popular....at the moment.

Yeah - while Macross certainly has its "cult status", it's nowhere close to have the popularity of a Gundam or a Code Geass... espesially in the west (thank you Robotech !). The fact that there hasn't been any licensed released anywhere outside Japan of Macross since Plus doesn't help either.

Oh well we can always hope that Macross Frontier will be a smash it give Macross the popularity it deserves

-Sergorn

[TehPW]

Yeah - while Macross certainly has its "cult status", it's nowhere close to have the popularity of a Gundam or a Code Geass... espesially in the west (thank you Robotech !). The fact that there hasn't been any licensed released anywhere outside Japan of Macross since Plus doesn't help either.

Oh well we can always hope that Macross Frontier will be a smash it give Macross the popularity it deserves

-Sergorn

Really? I can believe that in the US... but what about everywhere else? i mean can you get Macross imports in canada or mexico? i'm sure HG's reach doesn't extend past the national borders... or does it?

[Vegas]

we all should contact the fansubbers to sub episode 1. its maybe they thought deculture edition is the same as the broadcast one. i emailed shinsen subs and you guys should do it too. lets make our voices heard.

[Sergorn]

Really? I can believe that in the US... but what about everywhere else? i mean can you get Macross imports in canada or mexico? i'm sure HG's reach doesn't extend past the national borders... or does it?

Well I can't be sure for *everywhere* (and I really don't know about Imports, I meant official domestic releases) but AFAIK there has been any official release of Macross Seven or Zero anywhere outside Japan has it ?

As far as France goes - we had a release of the original SDFM in 2004 ; according to the editor it was a real legal MESS to actually make it happen. It took over two years to make it happens, (while usually anime being announced on DVD are released within a few month) required careful negociations with the Japaneses and... yeah they had to go through Harmony Gold to make it happens (and there is indeed a "nice" Harmony Gold logo on the box set)

And let's just say that the fact Macross Zero has never been brought here... just doesn't add up. It's typically the kind of anime they would release under normal circunstances and the Macross name would probably sell well enough (even if only because for most people here "Robotech = Macross" ). It seems *highly* doubtful that in 6 years since Zero no editor would have contacted Big West to try to buy the license. So I can only assume that the reason it didn't happen is because of the whole legal mess surrounding the Macross license, Harmony Gold and Big West. And has I said AFAIK Zero wasn't released anywhere else either... so it's safe to assume it is related. Seems like trying to license Macross stuff outside Japan is like opening a big can of worm that no editor would touch with a ten foot pole.

Of course I still keep my finger crossed for an official release of Zero and Frontier eventually (I have abandonned all hope for Macross 7)

we all should contact the fansubbers to sub episode 1. its maybe they thought deculture edition is the same as the broadcast one. i emailed shinsen subs and you guys should do it too. lets make our voices heard.

It usually takes a few days for Shinsen to release their subs. They're not the fatest fansubers, but they do good work.

-Sergorn

Edited April 7, 2008 by Sergorn

[veffidas]

Great. Code Geass already has fansubs for their season premiere.

What the heck is going on?

Code Geass is the hot fad in Japan right now. Fansubbers generally follow the Japanese market, despite applying its own western filters - i.e. not many are going to sub a shounen-ai (gay/boys' love) series. What's popular in Japan will generally dictate what fansubbers lap up. Macross isn't very popular, especially when compared to Code Geass.

Just a thought but my thoughts are the quicker the fansub, the worse the quality hmm? Just my two cents

Not necessarily, it really depends on the team and its resources. Some fansubs do fall into the category of download, watch, and trash while others are release for "archival" purposes. A good mix of speed and quality is quite possible, though.

we all should contact the fansubbers to sub episode 1. its maybe they thought deculture edition is the same as the broadcast one. i emailed shinsen subs and you guys should do it too. lets make our voices heard.

If the group is actually dedicated enough to pick up Macross Frontier, I'd actually expect them to already know.

[nemesis_trooper]

we all should contact the fansubbers to sub episode 1. its maybe they thought deculture edition is the same as the broadcast one. i emailed shinsen subs and you guys should do it too. lets make our voices heard.

I'm thinking this as well...

[Necron_99]

Macross isn't very popular, especially when compared to Code Geass.

It is to me

[Vegas]

nevermind

Edited April 7, 2008 by Vegas Valkyrie

[cyde01]

was finally able to watch the episode. do u guys want me to do a rough translation of the new scenes? i'm not a fan subber and wouldn't want to do whole episodes, but there's really not much that's new in this episode so i could do a quick translation. please don't ask me to do the songs (the ending doesn't even sound japanese, sounds like kanno jibberish language).

[Zinjo]

A lot goes into a "quality" fansub besides translation. Among others there're: timing, typesetting, karaoke, and encoding/muxing.

My guess on the bottleneck for this episode? Translations of the opening and ending themes. Translating song is quite a bit more difficult than regular speech.

Well if they are trying to unpack the MP4 of the Blueray encoded version, good luck!

The uploader screwed something up in the encode and most unpackers crash or won't even see the file...

[veffidas]

Well, the OP seems to have been committed to text already (though not yet translated):

http://www.gabrielarobin.com/165/macross-f...-be-late-lyrics

The website has other tidbits about Macross Frontier as well, including the OST release date.

[cyde01]

dressing room scene:

mikhail: Miss Sheryl?

girl: Eh? I'm not her!

mikhail: I beg your pardon. It's just that you looked so beautiful from behind (doesn't have the negative connotations in Japanese).

girl: (giggles) Oh my!

luca: Can you believe Mikhail senpai, (hitting on girls) at a place like this? He has nerves of steel! You don't seem nervous at all either, Alto senpai. I guess if you come from that kind of background, you're gonna be used to this kind of atmosphere.

alto: Luca! One more word and I'll..

background: hello!!

luca: it's sheryl!! it's the fairy of the galaxy!!!

sheryl: what are those kids!! i told you i don't want any fans backstage!!

cathy: they are students who will be doing the aerial acrobatics in the opening.

sheryl: students!? you put amateurs on my concert staff!?

cathy: they are from our fleet's elite..

sheryl: tell them to take it easy and not disrupt my concert!! although i'll doubt the fans will be looking at anything besides me. (closes door)

cathy: "fairy of the galaxy?" she's more like a little demon.

aerial acrobatics scene

mikhail: upward air balloon!! (dunno if i got that right) you're gonna be late units!!!

alto: just keep going.

mikhail: alto!! cut it out!!

alto: the crowd likes it. next up, the rainbow corkscrew. CHECK IT!!!!

mikhail: alto!!!!

alto: GOOOO!!!!! don't get scared miss fairy.

cathy: idiot!!!

alto: dammit!!! (catches sheryl) i'm sorry. i'll get you right back..

sheryl: just keep flying!!!

alto: what?

sheryl: hurry!!

alto: alright!

mikhail: that idiot! all units follow unit 2!!

alto: you're.. amazing..

I don't think there was anything else new. all the old scenes had the same dialogue as the deculture edition. remind me if i missed anything else new.

[Renato]

noticed it months ago - its the same in the deculture edition.

whoever said it's 'engrish'? maybe its alien speak?

Check out more engrish at 15:51 on the broadcast edition (I'm sure it's in the DE too).

[nemesis_trooper]

dressing room scene:

luca: Can you believe Mikhail senpai, (hitting on girls) at a place like this? He has nerves of steel! You don't seem nervous at all either, Alto senpai. I guess if you come from that kind of background, you're gonna be used to this kind of atmosphere.

I don't think there was anything else new. all the old scenes had the same dialogue as the deculture edition. remind me if i missed anything else new.

THanks very much cyde01!!! That was exactly what I wanted to know!

Luca seems to be making some sort of negative remark to Alto-hime at that scene (there was a short cut scene of a oni/japanese demon I seem to recall)

Now I can only hope episode 2 is given a whole lot more loving attn by our fellow anime friends...Code Gaeass....*ptui* <I am a macross snob >

Cheers!

Edited April 7, 2008 by nemesis_trooper

[nemesis_trooper]

Decided not to just sit on my bum and ask for stuff - and tried to do some subbing. I dunno jap but I used the DE edition fansubs and tried creating a .srt (subtitle file) with slight tweaks for Broadcast episode 1 (which I have converted to H264 Avi).

Phew...its hard work and I only got to the 5 min mark. If anybody wants this to continue, or just for kicks, PM me.

I have new respect for the subbers out there, its backbreaking work, timing the subs, and I'm not even doing any translating! I'm just gonna wait for this to be done professionally instead of my DIY effort..

[Zinjo]

Really? I can believe that in the US... but what about everywhere else? i mean can you get Macross imports in canada or mexico? i'm sure HG's reach doesn't extend past the national borders... or does it?

They own the "Macross" trademark in Canada too, however it wouldn't take a full blown court battle to rip it out of their cold dead hands...

It takes proving to the Canadian Trademark Board that they have no legal claim to the name, however there is a time limit on how long that window will stay open, 5-6 years I believe, then it requires a bit more effort...

I suspect they own a similar trademark in latin countries as well considering a portion of their fanbase is latino.

Edited April 7, 2008 by Zinjo

[ieh4f]

ok l have some question not related to macross, my pc's cpu is about 700mhz only, but l usually dont have problem watching divx 5 films, but when l try to watch certain newly released film, it doesnt play fluently, is it because it is encoded by divx 6.6?

[Sergorn]

ok l have some question not related to macross, my pc's cpu is about 700mhz only, but l usually dont have problem watching divx 5 films, but when l try to watch certain newly released film, it doesnt play fluently, is it because it is encoded by divx 6.6?

More likely it's because they are encoded in high definition. Traditionnaly anime were enoded in standard definition like 640x480. With with HD being more common more and more anime are encoded in high definition like 1280x720.... which require a lot more processing power (even more so if it uses newer codecs like H264). Usually though most fangroup will release Standard Definition fansubs as well and HD ones

-Sergorn

[wolfx]

ok l have some question not related to macross, my pc's cpu is about 700mhz only, but l usually dont have problem watching divx 5 films, but when l try to watch certain newly released film, it doesnt play fluently, is it because it is encoded by divx 6.6?

More likely it's because they are encoded in high definition. Traditionnaly anime were enoded in standard definition like 640x480. With with HD being more common more and more anime are encoded in high definition like 1280x720.... which require a lot more processing power (even more so if it uses newer codecs like H264). Usually though most fangroup will release Standard Definition fansubs as well and HD ones

-Sergorn

What Sergorn said. I have a P4 2.0 Ghz laptop and it doesn't run HD h264 either. CPU becomes 100% and lags like crap. I was told that CoreAVC might help my problems (which is a fast h264 codec) but that didn't help either. Guess we need to upgrade our computers, ieh4f.

[Kelsain]

ok l have some question not related to macross, my pc's cpu is about 700mhz only, but l usually dont have problem watching divx 5 films, but when l try to watch certain newly released film, it doesnt play fluently, is it because it is encoded by divx 6.6?

I had the same problem, then opened it in Windows Media Player, and it was just fine.

Thanks to cyde01, went ahead and watched ep1. Like all the rest, I do prefer the DE. No Ghosts FTL. On the other hand, I don't recall the little Vajra's arms being so threatening before. Could lead to more cool grappling.

As for the music, Don't Be Late didn't sound as polished as on the DE, but this could be a good thing. Maybe they'll throw some variation into the performances! That was the worst part of M7 to me was that, every time Fire Bomber played a show, played in battle, or even practiced, their songs sounded exactly the same. This sounded more like a live concert version of Don't be Late, while the version we heard before was the track off the CD.

Another good thing: the character designers can draw a good tushie.

[Sketch]

Protip - Anime in Action and Infinite Zero just released a sub of the first episode. Can't post the link here, but check the usual spots and you'll find it right quick.

[Vegas]

yay thanks man! finally

[Graham]

Downloading now at 25%. Hopefully less than 15 minutes to go!

Graham

[Gubaba]

WHY? WHY? WHY?

WHY does it have to be mp4?

Still waiting for the avi...

[terry the lone wolf]

13.6% done about 28-27KBs per second...Looks like an all night job....

[veffidas]

Looks like I was correct about them hating the ED ( http://anime.yourbb2.com/macross-frontier-t56.html ):

It should be noted, that we didn't put lyrics to the ED or Insert songs because the songs themselves are goddamn incomprehensible. I can't make farting heads or tails of it and come up with some sensible lyrics. So rather than put mangled ones in, we didn't put it at all. Once we get some official lyrics, they'll probably go in, hopefully we won't have to hear them every episode like we did Planet Dance in Macross 7.

[Shouta]

Looks like I was correct about them hating the ED ( http://anime.yourbb2.com/macross-frontier-t56.html ):

Note, I meant Farking and not Farting.

And screw Kanno.