Macross Frontier Episode 1 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Mr March]

Yep he's correct that it's on a budget and a weekly series.

However that near stopped Enterprise, TNG, Babylon 5, Aeon Kid(US title), and most major shows from using a high poly model or multi-LOD models to get great quality within budget. The whole "1 model" system never worked (except for physical models) and shows the inexperience that anime makers have with 3D. It is their inexperience because nearly every major professional package can make LOD's with ease and it's a simple matter of picking the LOD for the shot.

But we'll see how ep 2 is. Can't wait to see the Loli Zentraedi.

Do you actually know what the budget was for an average episode of Star Trek? It was $1 million per episode. Babylon 5 was $500,000 to $800,000 per episode. Deep Space Nine was $1.6 million per episode.

I don't know why, but it seems many don't understand just how tight a budget on which most of these anime shows run. Japan is not the US and anime is not big budget, broad appeal entertainment. Even in Japan, anime is not on the level of popularity that shows like Star Trek would be to American audiences. The two don't even compare. IMO, if people have to pause the show and frame-by-frame to nitpick the visuals, the show obviously isn't holding their attention. I have zero problem with the CG in Macross Frontier but like I said, I recognized it's limitations last year. I'm not sure why this is coming as some surprise to people, but so be it. It's definitely not hurting the show and most people, fan and non-fan alike, have praised the visuals if nothing else.

Edited April 5, 2008 by Mr March

[Elektrix]

The ending song just seems sparse, not enough super awesome Kanno influence.

I think the Kanno flavor is still there; the main thing it reminds me of is the vocal-only version of "Voices", or some of the other similar pieces from "Turn A Gundam".

[azrael]

Do you actually know what the budget was for an average episode of Star Trek? It was $1 million per episode. Babylon 5 was $500,000 to $800,000 per episode. Deep Space Nine was $1.6 million per episode.

I don't know why, but it seems many don't understand just how tight a budget on which most of these anime shows run. Japan is not the US and anime is not big budget, broad appeal entertainment. Even in Japan, anime is not on the level of popularity that shows like Star Trek would be to American audiences. The two don't even compare. IMO, if people have to pause the show and frame-by-frame to nitpick the visuals, the show obviously isn't holding their attention. I have zero problem with the CG in Macross Frontier but like I said, I recognized it's limitations last year. I'm not sure why this is coming as some surprise to people, but so be it. It's definitely not hurting the show and most people, fan and non-fan alike, have praised the visuals if nothing else.

Most people don't realize it cost money to make these shows and that the more images they use, the more money it's gonna cost. Kawamori says they have this much money and Director Kikuchi has to work within those limits. And they have to compact as much story and action into 24 minutes, including opening and endings and eyecatches. The Deculture edition was about 28 minutes, only with an ending theme. I'm sure they would have wanted to go with the Deculture edition, but they have to work within time constraints. Ronald D. Moore complains endlessly in his BSG podcasts about these constraints. Anime productions are no different.

[azrael]

Mod warning

You newbies are not reading the first post. No file sharing links. If you have one, PM a mod.

[Max_Jenius]

Just watch episode one, i loved the extended concert scene. The intro song is growing on me, don't quite like the ending song...

I started laughing cause they actually included the Nyan Nyan commercial.

Agreed. I really like the intro song since the first time I heard it in the DE, but I would have preferred if they had stuck with Minmei's song for the ending. The ending song they chose is meh and doesnt really fit the show IMO.

[ce25254]

You took the words right out of my mouth. If there's knife fight coming up in MF, it's guaranteed to look better than Max and Millia's...

Point well taken. I just thought they would've been more careful with the polygons in the intro since it will appear prior to every episode. Essentially, I have no problem with the CG planes, and think they look decent in general.

[Sergorn]

I think the Kanno flavor is still there; the main thing it reminds me of is the vocal-only version of "Voices", or some of the other similar pieces from "Turn A Gundam".

I thought the ending piece was way more Kanno-ish than the opening theme. I loved it.

-Sergorn

[jenius]

Wow, haven't checked in on Macross F in forever because I thought we were in official hiatus mode. I read the first post, checked a sub site, but I didn't see an English subbed version of the *real* first episode of MacF. Did I just miss it?

[Gubaba]

Wow, haven't checked in on Macross F in forever because I thought we were in official hiatus mode. I read the first post, checked a sub site, but I didn't see an English subbed version of the *real* first episode of MacF. Did I just miss it?

Don't worry...it simply doesn't exist yet.

Any day now...

[jenius]

That's the answer I was hoping for, thanks!

PS - while hunting for it I saw someone (I think it was you Gubaba) asked why the VF-4 would be in a Robotech reference site. Just in case no one answered, the VF-4 exists in Robotech as the YF-4 because Rick, like Hikaru, plays with a model of it while in his apartment. If memory serves, Robotech lore states the YF-4 never made it into full production and the VF-1 was replaced by the VFA-6 Alpha (amongst all other sorts of mechs)

[Oihan]

Well...not to rehash everyone's opinions...but like with most of you, I'm not too happy with the editing decisions either; however, I do like the new footage that they added! I really miss the the 'epic' opening with the music in the Deculture Edition. In the Broadcast Edition some of the scenes feel a little rushed with no real smooth transitions...unlike in the Deculture Edition. I too don't understand some of the editing decisions they made.... I dunno why they couldn't have kept the Deculture Edition intact and just added the new scenes from the Brodcast Edition into the Deculture Edition. I understand the need to edit for time constraints and commercials...but as some others have said...the Deculture Edition is perfect...why change the flow of things? Moreover, the OP isn't that bad either; the ED was rather disappointing though. But I digress, I'm looking forward to episode 2!

Edited April 5, 2008 by Oihan

[Gubaba]

That's the answer I was hoping for, thanks!

PS - while hunting for it I saw someone (I think it was you Gubaba) asked why the VF-4 would be in a Robotech reference site. Just in case no one answered, the VF-4 exists in Robotech as the YF-4 because Rick, like Hikaru, plays with a model of it while in his apartment. If memory serves, Robotech lore states the YF-4 never made it into full production and the VF-1 was replaced by the VFA-6 Alpha (amongst all other sorts of mechs)

Does this mean that HG "owns" Orguss as well, because of the Orguss Valkyrie...? Sheesh...

[Dante74]

Anyone else notice the engrish during the concert scene on the bottom left of the screen?

[Gubaba]

I don't know why you're making such a big deal about "Frontire." It's a perfectly cromulant word.

[RichterX]

I don't know why you're making such a big deal about "Frontire." It's a perfectly cromulant word.

just as much as "chanel"

[DrunkenMaster2]

How cool is this!!!! Can't wait to see this in action!!!!!!

[Duke Togo]

BTW, Sheryl is TOTALLY lip syncing in the broadcast version, and she's not even mouthing the right lyrics!

[mike_s_6]

BTW, Sheryl is TOTALLY lip syncing in the broadcast version, and she's not even mouthing the right lyrics!

No wonder she sounds great

[Gubaba]

BTW, Sheryl is TOTALLY lip syncing in the broadcast version, and she's not even mouthing the right lyrics!

Sheryl Nome: Macross Galaxy's answer to Ashlee Simpson...

[chrono]

Do you actually know what the budget was for an average episode of Star Trek? It was $1 million per episode. Babylon 5 was $500,000 to $800,000 per episode. Deep Space Nine was $1.6 million per episode.

*golf claps*

Yeah costs are tight. However the costs involved with those shows also went towards realism (realism costs), and that's something anime doesn't have to worry about overly much. As for the CG B5 is roughly half to equal the same amount of polygons amounts that they have on M:F. Game level models today and each had a one week limit in which it had to be done. 2-10 computers with 1/20th of last years power on APPLES!

It's flat out lack of experience with 3D...

OR....

They are intentionally using 1 level of model so they can use the perceived "time saved" for extra 2D-3D integration. Aka 'polishing'. However even then it's silly given how fast it takes to make a L.O.D. model (as fast as the renderer can swap out models).

-----

@DrunkenMaster2, Hell yeah!!! Bring'm on! 45 foot tall... tight 'armor' BDU... 5' 6" audience... LOL!

Edited April 5, 2008 by chrono

[Torii]

I agree about the polygons but we should remember that this IS a TV series as opposed to a movie or OVA. I know that doesn't help but it may be the reason for the lackluster CGI. WE WANT BETTER!!!!!!

>_>

All things considered, Frontier's CGI isn't all that bad. I mean, it could be worse. Look at the SRWOG: Divine Wars anime. The CGI on that doesn't even look half as good as Zoids, IMO.

[UN Spacy]

[Gubaba]

Y'know...I wonder if they put the Nyan Nyan ad in there was part of the plan from the beginning, or if its popularity after the Deculture Version was aired inspired them to make it...

[Mr March]

*golf claps*

Yeah, I figured you had no clue. Well, write them a letter about level of detail and I'm sure they'll get right on it. And make sure to be specific since they have no idea what they're doing.

[Elektrix]

Y'know...I wonder if they put the Nyan Nyan ad in there was part of the plan from the beginning, or if its popularity after the Deculture Version was aired inspired them to make it...

Well, either way - as soon as we saw Lanka act out the commercial, I think it became inevitable that we'd see the ACTUAL commercial for it somewhere and somehow. Using it in the eyecatch probably makes sense, although it would have been funny to see it come on during a TV show inside the show.

-Elektrix

[Gubaba]

...And I'm sure SOMEONE involved with the production saw the 10 minute Lanka loop on youtube, and thought, "Yes! We've got a winner, here!"

...whether they'd already decided to put the ad in or not.

As you say, though, it would be fun to see it in the show itself...I was half expecting it to be a DVD bonus, like Appale Genki showing up in "Macross Zero Zero."

[Legioss]

I'd love to watch this, and I already got it, but not on my computer. I'll have to wait for a lower resolution/bitrate version that likes XBMC, preferably a "raw" since 日本語ができる。 Yes, I already checked the links in the first post and it's not out yet. Looks awesome. I'm tempted to just check out this eyecatch instead of watching it all the way through.

[Smiley424]

Waiting for an english sub to drop but did catch the intro and ending on youtube. I liked both intro and end, intro had some nice bits; Bridge Bunnies , transformed Battle Frontier (that's what I'm calling the fighting section of the colony ship unless there is an official designation), reinforcement of the love triangle between Alto, Sheryl, and Lanca. I liked the morph into flightsuit for Alto and Ozma, nice touch. Intro music gave me a Macross 7 vibe while the ending was reminiscent of Voices from Mac+.

[Strumvogel]

Do excuse me if I`m repeating some already stated opinions on this thread but I`m a bit rush for time to do a read thru.

Well unlike the rest of you I only just managed to catched the 1st episode. And I`m in Japan on a holiday so some of you people should really stop complaining.

I liked the OP animation though like I`ve stated before, it only really kicked into gear when the VF25 turns up and I don`t mean it fly across the screen at the start. When we see it on the elevator shades of the old SDFM OP is what really did it in for me.

The biggest problem I have with the broadcast version is that our time with the characters are even shorter than what we had with the Deculture Edition. That`s a big problem since even then we really having a hard time identifying and getting to like the characters there. Now with this what seems like an abridged edition things are only worse. The saving grace is that we know they`ll have a whole season to build up the characters so maybe that isn`t that big of a problem. Still doesn`t changed the fact the Deculture edition is much better in terms of the characters.

I will say one thing though, the effects are awhole lot more better, cleaned up and sleeker in the broadcast version. The contrasts are so much sharper too. Maybe this is due to the TV I was watching it on, in the dark and at 2am in the morning but it really looked that way to me.

Perhaps you guys who have the two versions can better compare and clearify on this.

Just look at the explosion effects as well as the reflected light effects on the red "bug" when Gilliam hits it with missiles.

Great now I have to dissappear from here again for a while since I`m not sure when I`ll find some time for it again. *sigh*

[Shun]

Anyone else notice the engrish during the concert scene on the bottom left of the screen?

noticed it months ago - its the same in the deculture edition.

whoever said it's 'engrish'? maybe its alien speak?

[Morpheus]

noticed it months ago - its the same in the deculture edition.

whoever said it's 'engrish'? maybe its alien speak?

Its Zentran speak......

Has anyone combine the deculture version with episode 1? I think they should put that one into the DVD.

[Gubaba]

Y'know, it's beginning to bother me how much time I spend waiting for the fansub...I wake up, go to the computer, and check animesuki, shinsen-subs, and here. I start doing other things, like cleaning the kitchen, and every hour or so, I scurry back to check animesuki, shinsen-subs, and here.

Part of me is hoping the show will suck just so I stop wasting so much time!

[Lorindor]

Yeah, Gubaba, me too. Once every hour I go check if there's a sub. And I should really be concentrating on studying. What's taking so long? I mean, the broadcast edition is pretty much the same as the deculture edition. Something like 90% of the translation should already have been completed for several month.

Edited April 6, 2008 by Lorindor

[darkrealmbahamut]

I am just as bad Gubaba. I go away for a bit then come back and check then check maybe three hours later.

[Gubaba]

And you just KNOW that none of us will snatch it first...probably some guy named something like "RickHunterROOLZ" who joined a few years ago, posted once, and never came back will suddenly show up delivering the news. He'll finish downloading it first, decide it sucks, and delete it...leaving the rest of us stuck at 47.09%.