Megaroad

[Mr March]

Since it seems a popular subject, I started this Megaroad thread to avoid going off topic on the Macross Frontier Tech thread. Just to recap:

Speaking of the Megaroad so much, I re-colored my version. I was never happy with it, so I spent some time experimenting with PS and learned a few new techniques.

NEW Megaroad-01

• I changed the lines inside the dome area from black to grey
• I used a light blue for the interior structures/buildings rather than dark blue
• The glass was done using a large diffused brush, the polygon selection tool and a more greenish-blue color
• I added a layer of tiny yellow lights to the interior dome city
• I also did various other corrections outside the dome area

Old Megaroad-01

[Mr March]

Zinjiderling

I like it!

It really brings out the fact that their is clear windows surrounding the city. Something the lineart never captured.

Me too. I also like the sense of an interior atmosphere and the feel of depth. It makes a big difference once in color.

Mark Nguyen

I also like it, though personally I'd tone down the hue of the windows by increasing their transparency or tinting them a little less brightly. It looks fine and accurate, and does justice to a great design, but honestly in some ways it looks like a really big aquarium ship.

That's the real problem. The whole point of adding color in this manner is to add depth and atmosphere. The lighter glass doesn't look as good IMO. Or at least, it doesn't look as interesting. Real is good; interesting is better. When I was experimenting I tried all kinds of colors, shades and brushes versus solids. They all came out looking "liquid" to one degree or another. There's also the fact that a slightly different colored glass helps distinguish the glass from the interior city.

Nonetheless, I'll post one of my other earlier experiments:

LIGHT GLASS Megaroad-01

charger69

Mr. March did you left some areas blank (white) intentionally? which are close to the left dome...

Yes, some of the areas are meant to be a silver-ish white. The anime itself actually alternates these sections; sometimes white, sometimes gold. I chose which sections seem to remain constant in most of the anime shots. There are clearly white sections on the ship and they should be accounted for, hence the corrections I added to this new version.

Edited March 27, 2008 by Mr March

[Zinjo]

Zinjiderling

Me too. I also like the sense of an interior atmosphere and the feel of depth. It makes a big difference once in color.

Mark Nguyen

That's the real problem. The whole point of adding color in this manner is to add depth and atmosphere. The lighter glass doesn't look as good IMO. Or at least, it doesn't look as interesting. Real is good; interesting is better. When I was experimenting I tried all kinds of colors, shades and brushes versus solids. They all came out looking "liquid" to one degree or another. There's also the fact that a slightly different colored glass helps distinguish the glass from the interior city.

Nonetheless, I'll post one of my other earlier experiments:

LIGHT GLASS Megaroad-01

charger69

Yes, some of the areas are meant to be a silver-ish white. The anime itself actually alternates these sections; sometimes white, sometimes gold. I chose which sections seem to remain constant in most of the anime shots. There are clearly white sections on the ship and they should be accounted for, hence the corrections I added to this new version.

Marchingintoblivion,

I never thought of the atmosphere inside the domes. Now that you mention it, it does work.

In the Wallpaper thread I took a scan of an original painting from the FB2012 art book and increased the color saturation. It shows off just how colorful the ship apparently was. However, a better source would probably be the CG animation from the openning of Mac F, since SK supervised that shot.

[RDClip]

Nice work Mr March. The new shades really bring out more detail.

Just something i've always wondered. Were the Megaroad class ships equipped with Macross cannons (doesn't really look like it to me)?

[Gubaba]

That looks awesome! Good work!

Just something i've always wondered. Were the Megaroad class ships equipped with Macross cannons (doesn't really look like it to me)?

I have no proof at all, but it looks to me like the prow could be a main gun of some kind...

[VFTF1]

I'm going to ask the obvious question - which likely has an even more obvious answer that I can't think of but...

Isn't encasing the city in what amounts to glass a really bad idea? I mean - what about alien attacks? Is that glass made of some Over-Technology super alloy? Is pin-point barrier technology really so reliable?

Or is it that they always meant this to be a "city ship?"

VFTF1

[Gubaba]

Well, in the picutre above, you don't see the the ship that flies directly in front of the Megaroad. Made of the same materials that would later be used to make City 7's shell, it's like an elongated bell which slides over the Megaroad, protecting the city. So no matter what threat they face, the Guard Ship, Condom, is always there to ensure safety!

[Garou Kuroryuu]

I'm going to ask the obvious question - which likely has an even more obvious answer that I can't think of but...

Isn't encasing the city in what amounts to glass a really bad idea? I mean - what about alien attacks? Is that glass made of some Over-Technology super alloy? Is pin-point barrier technology really so reliable?

Or is it that they always meant this to be a "city ship?"

VFTF1

Since I don't think we have an official answer, I would go with:

1) OT super glass

2) It's a city ship.

So the Megaroads would be the early versions of the "city ships" of Mac7 and F, since both kind of ships always had a huge a$$ battle fleet as escorts (Nupietz first, then all the new breed of ships).

[Mr March]

ZinjaNinja

It is indeed quite colorful. I tried to capture as much of the color from the anime as I could, without overwhelming the color scheme in an excessive forest of lights. I think all the lights were meant to create a sense of scale and show that the Megaroad was one enormous vessel of great size. But it's also important not to drown out the detail of the line art, so it's moderated in my version.

I agree the Macross Frontier shot is great. It appeared more grey, almost blue in a way. So I just stuck with a grey tinged with blue-purple and I think it looks good.

RDClip

As Gubaba has pointed out, it's possible the forward booms are super dimension energy cannons. Keep in mind that the Megaroad is many, many times larger than the SDF-1 Macross (Megaroad is over 5,000 meters long, the SDF-1 is 1,200 meters long). If the size of the SDF-1 cannons were maintained to scale they would be almost the exact size of the Megaroad's forward booms. Even if the Megaroad doesn't have the main guns, it's very likely it was armed with anti-ship weaponry.

VFTF1

The "glass" is only called such to assist understanding. Logic would tell us it's not possible for a space craft that large to be using a simple glass hull. How could something as brittle as glass maintain any structural strength spread across a ship so large? How would glass survive the vibrations, stress and heat of acheiving orbit or rentry? How could glass survive micrometeorite impacts or collisions with slow moving object and ships? We have no choice but to assume the glass is some kind of transparent material with properties of structural strength far superior to glass.

From the events of the anime series, it's clear this theory also makes sense. The domes are rarely penetrated from mecha weaponry. In Macross Frontier, the Red Vajra had to fire it's main gun (which was previous seen as a powerful anti-ship beam weapon) at point blank range just to blast a hole large enough for itself to get into City 25. I think it's safe to say the "glass" is quite sturdy even though it's not meant to repel dedicated attacks. That's what the armored shell is for; a shell that is never deployed in time to stop the baddies...lol

Edited March 27, 2008 by Mr March

[Mark Nguyen]

Give 'em a little credit - Hikaru and Minmay were protected by a shield for most of their maudlin final exchange!

Also, given that even in DYRL they had the forethought to incorporate deployable shields over the viewports, the Megaroad class ships would have SOME similar systems in them to protect the colonists. I'd envision a batmobile style armor deploying along the glass from the larger superstructure. We'll never likely know, but at the VERY least they should be able to tint the windows whenever they're passing close to a star!

Mark

[VFTF1]

We have no choice but to assume the glass is some kind of transparent material with properties of structural strength far superior to glass.

That's what the armored shell is for; a shell that is never deployed in time to stop the baddies...lol

As to the first point - this would be the logical inference; but I would hastent therefore to point out that for purposes of maintaining psychological balance on the Megaroad, such a "transparent material" would be a hideous choice. After all - wouldn't it be more prudent to isolate the colonists from space? Wouldn't it be better to create an artificial sky, as was done on the SDF Macross? I would imagine people would be equally frightened of the view as they would be fascinated by it... And even if we can assume that on their side of the transparent material, there is in fact artificial sky, then why have the material be transparent at all? Doesn't this simply advertise to potential alien adversaries that the craft is a huge colony vessel? A housing unit full of juicy unarmed targets?

As to the second point regarding the armored shells that never seem to deploy in time to defend the city - well - this is precisely why the original SDF Macross was so effective. It didn't need an "armored shell" - the vessel itself was just such a shell.

I don't understand the departure from this way of doing things - granted; the SDF Macross was not built specifically to house a city; granted there was much innovation to the process - but just because UN Spacey is suddenly building colony fleets doesn't mean that they must all be so...well...unguarded.

Naturally I understand the aesthetic reasoning - the Megaroad 1 is aesthetically far more impressive than the clunky SDF Macross.

But from the point of view of the citizens - who cares? All they see is their city and their artificial sky. In fact, in times of relative peace, it is likely very easy to forget one is even ON a space ship... for those who are somehow exited by this; well - there are ways of remembering available to them.

I guess I just can't fathom the reasoning behind the new colony models. They seem to be more elaborate and therefore expensive; yet they don't work as well in fulfilling their various functions as the old Macross did.

VFTF1

[Mr March]

Who can debate aesthetics? Not really an argument that leads to any conclusion, IMO.

As for the Megaroad itself, it's not a dedicated warship. It's not supposed to fulfill all the functions of the SDF-1. It's primary purpose is long-distance colonization, transporting a civilian population that has to remain happy and comfortable aboard ship for years if necessary. These colony ships are intergalactic cruise vessels, not dedicated combat craft. Battle is why a combat fleet escorts the ship.

Even the New Macross class vessels were less than ideal combat craft. Sure they have the big gun, but little else remains. Four anti-ship cannons are the only other weapons; gone are the big beam cannons, point defense guns, artillery cannons, missile launchers and destroid units. The New Macross class is far from the battleship that is the SDF-1.

I find it no surprise that the colony ships are compromised in combat. They aren't meant to do serious fighting. A military builds colony ships to move colonists, with some defenses just in case. But they spend their real military resources on real military ships, which are sent along as escort should the worst happen. That's really all anyone can do, modern military, or advanced space-faring civilization

Edited March 27, 2008 by Mr March

[RichterX]

I like how the image looks like, the city portions seem to be actually inhabit and alive. The regular images looked to me like if the Megaroad was sloppily put together and parts of machinery was exposed.... something like a colony ship millennium falcon

[Kelsain]

The aesthetics ARE the reason for it. You're right, it makes no sense whatsoever to have the big clear dome. You can't see out from inside (unless you're right up on it); unless you're in a Green Belt orbit, you won't get enough light coming in to grow plants; and it does seem to invite enemy attention... but it's pretty!

I concur that having an enclosed ship that could open "shell style" upon reaching the colony destination would make more sense. On the other hand, it makes it more difficult for the viewer to quickly spot which ships are the colony ships.

In fact, if we look at other series, most colony or garden ships have domes (at least all the ones I can think of) - even if they're for interstellar travel. It seems to be ingrained in the Scifi imagery that colony ships MUST have domes - at least if they were designed for that purpose.

Edited March 27, 2008 by Kelsain

[Exsedol]

Hehe almost looks like a glass zentran destroyer if you squint

[Zinjo]

I'm going to ask the obvious question - which likely has an even more obvious answer that I can't think of but...

Isn't encasing the city in what amounts to glass a really bad idea? I mean - what about alien attacks? Is that glass made of some Over-Technology super alloy? Is pin-point barrier technology really so reliable?

Or is it that they always meant this to be a "city ship?"

VFTF1

I like to believe it is a form of OTEC Transparent Aluminum, not glass at all.

Marching Circus:

Keep in mind the Macross was the "flagship" battlefortress of a fledgling space fleet. The biggest completed ship they had to that date. Essentially being a restored SA battleship, it became the backbone of the Spacy fleet. Now consider the emigration fleet escorts. All state of the art capital ships, approaching comparable gunpower of the SDF-1 without the Buster Cannon.

I suspect the Macross Battle Class ships were desiged more along the lines of the main carrier in a carrier group. The base of combat opperations and the home of the main airwings, along with a last resort weapon, the Buster Cannon. In Fronter the CAP didn't launch from the M25, but a smaller carrier.

Granted it is nowhere near as powerful as the old Macross, however I suspect the rational is that it no longer has to be considering the umbrella of escort craft surrounding the colony ship.

Edited March 27, 2008 by Zinjo

[Duke Togo]

I like to believe it is a form of OTEC Transparent Aluminum, not glass at all.

Oooo, but can you transport space whales in it!

[Hiriyu]

I find it no surprise that the colony ships are compromised in combat. They aren't meant to do serious fighting. A military builds colony ships to move colonists, with some defenses just in case. But they spend their real military resources on real military ships, which are sent along as escort should the worst happen. That's really all anyone can do, modern military, or advanced space-faring civilization

I agree completely. Didn't Arthur C. Clarke teach you guys anything?

[dreamweaver13]

The aesthetics ARE the reason for it. You're right, it makes no sense whatsoever to have the big clear dome. You can't see out from inside (unless you're right up on it); unless you're in a Green Belt orbit, you won't get enough light coming in to grow plants; and it does seem to invite enemy attention... but it's pretty!

I concur that having an enclosed ship that could open "shell style" upon reaching the colony destination would make more sense. On the other hand, it makes it more difficult for the viewer to quickly spot which ships are the colony ships.

In fact, if we look at other series, most colony or garden ships have domes (at least all the ones I can think of) - even if they're for interstellar travel. It seems to be ingrained in the Scifi imagery that colony ships MUST have domes - at least if they were designed for that purpose.

likewise, i do not see the practical application of having a see-through hull, regardless of its composition.

so i would have to agree with the sentiment that it is for purely aesthetic purposes only. it serves to emphasize to the viewers that the purpose of this ship is to "colonize" and not to wage war. so what better way to emphasize that point than to show the whole friggin civilian population inside the ship?

but here's a thought... it sure saves a lot of time for the enemy (presumably zentradei or a variant thereof) to get shocked out of their wits in seeing male and female microns fraternizing in a single ship - no need for a recon mission, there are your microns! hmmm... come to think of it, imagine if the zentradei saw the microns before they attacked. wouldve saved the humans a lot of trouble. hehe. maybe, that's why they made the ship transparent. "hey you space war mongers. we got CULTURE!! see for yourselves! who's your daddy now??!"

as for similar ships in other SCI FI series, good point. Cloud 9 from battlestar galactica comes to mind.

Edited March 28, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Mark Nguyen]

Come to think of it, the Island modules off Macross Frontier don't have any apparent protection...

Also, Battle 7 DOES have secondary weapons - there are deployable missile racks that can fire reaction warheads. While not explicitly shown, they may have tiny CIWS weapons around too, too tiny for anyone to pick out. Like the real aircraft carriers the New Macross class ships are based on, the main offensive and defensive weapons would be the aircraft that are carried.

Back to the Megaroad, aside from the transparent portions of the ship, the whole thing is full of beautiful design questions. What's the point of having enormous secondary domes that stick out SIDEWAYS from a ship that can operate in the atmosphere? Why isolate the bridge tower on two spindly support arms that are sure to draw enemy fire? Hell, why have the bridge stick out of the ship AT ALL?

And there's also a notable lack of visible vegetation, too. Mind you, back then not too much forethought had been placed into real-world space travel for long distances. We know now that if you're gonna be living in space for more than a few months, you pretty much need some natural creature comforts or rish being driven space crazy.

Mark

[Kelsain]

We know now that if you're gonna be living in space for more than a few months, you pretty much need some natural creature comforts or rish being driven space crazy.

Mark

"Oh, my beloved ice cream bar! How I love to lick your creamy center!"

[VFTF1]

I guess the bridge is up there for the same reason the bridge is "up there" on battle ships and air craft carriers...

ultimately you want some real world visibility.

Only Star Trek presents the luxury of having a screen show you everything

VFTF1

[Mark Nguyen]

Today's aircraft carriers are navigated and battles fought from the CIC way in the middle of the ship. If you need a bird's eye view, you don't go up to the bridge - you use your radar, satellite data, and the sensors of your planes to feed you all the information you need. Carriers today really use their bridge only for flight operations and docking.

Few sci-fi shows have their command centre in the protected middle of the ship. The only real explanation is actually from Trek - that without shields (in their case), an enemy weapon would completely cut through or destroy a starship anyway, so there's really no difference WHERE you put your bridge. In Macross, the ships are vulnerable to mecha-sized weaponry with enough pounding. Since reliable omni-diectional shielding still seems to be impossible (at least we never saw it in Plus, 7 or the first episode of Frontier), it stands to reason that putting your bridge exactly where anyone can shoot at it seems to be a silly thing to do.

OTOH, if the Megaroads were truly never meant as a combat ship, then its exaggerated bridge placement would be as acceptable as it would be on a cruise ship. Still, the New Macross class ships have 'em prominently placed...

Mark

[UN Spacy]

Has there ever been a model kit of the Megaroad?

[Zinjo]

Oooo, but can you transport space whales in it!

Umm, it is a real substance, however the true name is "Alumina" or aluminum oxide (see Here and Here ), another type is "aluminum oxynitride" (Here

).

Eventhough I am no Trekkie, they do base much of the technology on real science. Transparent aluminum oxide is one such instance.

To me, it makes the most logical sense to use such material, since the size of the VF's canopy made from glass and at a thickness capable of withstanding the intense heat of re-entry would be far too heavy to be a viable material for such an application. Then one must consider the visual warping created by this thick glass on the pilot's ability to properly see his adversary.

Now against a 55mm round or a beam cannon it wouldn't hold up well, but for general trans-atmospheric use, it would be ideal. At sufficient thicknesses, if would be nearly impervious to most weaponry.

Edited March 29, 2008 by Zinjo

[Zinjo]

Today's aircraft carriers are navigated and battles fought from the CIC way in the middle of the ship. If you need a bird's eye view, you don't go up to the bridge - you use your radar, satellite data, and the sensors of your planes to feed you all the information you need. Carriers today really use their bridge only for flight operations and docking.

Few sci-fi shows have their command centre in the protected middle of the ship. The only real explanation is actually from Trek - that without shields (in their case), an enemy weapon would completely cut through or destroy a starship anyway, so there's really no difference WHERE you put your bridge. In Macross, the ships are vulnerable to mecha-sized weaponry with enough pounding. Since reliable omni-diectional shielding still seems to be impossible (at least we never saw it in Plus, 7 or the first episode of Frontier), it stands to reason that putting your bridge exactly where anyone can shoot at it seems to be a silly thing to do.

OTOH, if the Megaroads were truly never meant as a combat ship, then its exaggerated bridge placement would be as acceptable as it would be on a cruise ship. Still, the New Macross class ships have 'em prominently placed...

Mark

I expect it's all about aesthetics in the movies or tv. BSG and Andromeda are the only shows I am aware of with a CIC bridge. The rest give the audience what we've all become accustomed to, WWII style bridges with big windows on top of the ship...