Federation Vs Klingon/Romulans & Other

[Roy Focker]

A few months ago I started a thread about the Empire vs the Rebels. This time the focus on Star Trek's Federation of Planet vs Their rivals. In Star Trek villains often become friends. To make things easy villains who became allies can considered as the other side just for comparison. So it is the Federation vs Klingons, Romulans, Carsadians, Borg, etc.

While I hate to say it. I'm against the Federation of Planets. Here is one of my key reasons....

Vulcans I don't Trust 'em!

The staple so called friendly alien race to us human in Star Trek. I am I just the only one that has a problem with them? I for one wouldn't want them making decisions for me. Whether they are my star ship captain or running the federation. Giving Vulcans power is a bad idea. They are too damn logical. If you or your love ones are in trouble a vulcan won't do P-diddly squat. They'll just look at the facts, odds and weigh the risk vs the gain. A Vulcan won't give a crap about you. Now Spock might have some good qualities but he's half human. 100% Vulcan is 100% Bad News.

A more important reason to hate them is they make horrible spouses for humans. Marry a Vulcan and you'll have an unloving mate. They won't comfort their children. They'll never say I love you. If you ask them to say it they give you some lecture about it being an illogical question. You will be talked down to all the time. Make things worst they only get intimate every seven years. Sure when they are horny they you *uck you like animal but as time passes and your older & fragile that Vulcan won't care about your health just their hormones.

[Arthurius]

Dont completely agree. Vulcans have a mission to help others. They use logic alot to make decision, instead of heart. Obviously just using logic or just using heart is not the best way for a captain. However, i believe although Vulcans dont show too much feelings, they still have friends, they still CARE, they are not just ROBOTS, believing everything is expendible.

[eriku]

I'd side with the Federation as long as I was under Kirk's command...and I didn't have to be a Red Shirt.

[eugimon]

while I'm not keen on the federation as they seem to follow a rather typical wilsonian philosophy (prime directive or no). While the federation talks a good game, to me, it just seems like a bunch of humans pushing their view points on other worlds and cultures. However, I can't say I'm fond of the romulans or the klingons either. Those two present rather strawman representations of nationalism and militarism.

IMO, this is one of the things that makes the ST universe unappealing, political ideologies are just too simplified and there's an un-natural delineation when it comes to militaristic versus pacifist thinking.

[mikeszekely]

Screw the Federation's socialist utopia! I'm going Romulan.

[Sumdumgai]

Depends on the time period. TOS era through to around Star Trek VI (including the time period of young Kirk and co. in Star Trek XI), I'd go with the Federation. It's pretty clear-cut who are the enemies. Not too technical yet, so you can still solve problems creatively without having to know what the phase inducer modified to various frequencies does to the photon control which -blah blah blah blah. It's not like Vulcans are wide-spread in Starfleet during this time period. During this period, the Federation is probably the least uncomfortable area to live in.

TNG-VOY, I'd rather be off on my own somewhere with my own home and ship, renewable power supply, cloaking device, holodeck, and replicator. Away from Starfleet, the Klingons (they smell funny), Romulans, Cardassians, Ferengi (buttheads), Bajorans, Vulcans, Orions, and most especially the Borg (aka Zombies in Outer Space).

[kaiotheforsaken]

This one is a toughy, while the Federation has always been the "good guys" of the Trek universe. I always found the story arcs dealing with the other races the most interesting. For example, the TNG arc where Gowron and Duras struggled for control of the High Command. So I'm not sure, the Feds are the "good" guys, but the other races/factions seem far more interesting.

note: I use the term Federation a bit loosely here, since obviously it is compromised of more than just mankind.

Edited March 7, 2008 by kaiotheforsaken

[Wicked Ace]

Vulcans I don't Trust 'em!

Sure when they are horny they you *uck you like animal but as time passes and your older & fragile that Vulcan won't care about your health just their hormones.

I don't care; I'd like it if that Vulcan chick on the Enterprise show tried to break me in bed.

[GobotFool]

I'd side with the Q continuum.

Screw the Federation's socialist utopia! I'm going Romulan.

But the food! Its worst in the universe! Okay, maybe klingon is worse. I'd go with the federation solely based on the fact that their food seems the most edible.

Edited March 7, 2008 by GobotFool

[gerwalk25]

"Don't underestimate the Warrior Race!"

Taiko-

Akihabara@Deep

In other words I'm on the Klingon's side.

[myk]

I'd side with the Q continuum.

Yeah, although since they went the "we're having a baby" route in Voyager who knows how lame they would be now...

[GobotFool]

Yeah, although since they went the "we're having a baby" route in Voyager who knows how lame they would be now...

Voyager? What is this show you mention? I don't remember this show. Viewing must have been so traumatic I blocked it out. The last ST series I remember watching was DS9.

[Uxi]

Depends on the time period. TOS era through to around Star Trek VI (including the time period of young Kirk and co. in Star Trek XI), I'd go with the Federation. It's pretty clear-cut who are the enemies.

Definitely. Kirk was the man. Pimping the alien hoes, kicking ass, taking names, with that awesome arrogant swagger. Love TOS. Absolutely hated TNG, especially at first, but grudgingly grew to like it towards the end. Voyager sucked the whole way through (as far as I could stomach, probably somewhere around season 2, after which i stopped watching), and was bored stiff by DS9 (always liked B5 better), until they each hit their wars, which made me flop. LOVED the way DS9 handled the Dominion War and hated the way the Shadow Skirmish was handled after all that set up. Never watched enough of Enterprise to care, though always rolled my eyes at the continuity flubs I read about. From a few episodes I've seen on HDNET, I liked the way they treated the Andorians.

[Necron_99]

Dominion FTW

[Noyhauser]

Anybody who chose Klingons need to give their head a shake... any species thats so inept that that they can let a planet explode can't get my vote.

[Sumdumgai]

Some Klingon was probably smoking their equivalent of weed near the dilithium crystals and dropped something on them that caused a splodey chain reaction. It was their moon in ST:VI.

Yeah, I'd like to be around during Kirk, Spock, and Mccoy's era.

[HoveringCheesecake]

Federation hell yeah.

[JB0]

Dont completely agree. Vulcans have a mission to help others. They use logic alot to make decision, instead of heart. Obviously just using logic or just using heart is not the best way for a captain. However, i believe although Vulcans dont show too much feelings, they still have friends, they still CARE, they are not just ROBOTS, believing everything is expendible.

*laughs*

Vulcans don't let logic guide their decisions.

They use it to JUSTIFY their decisions, which are guided by carefully hidden emotions.

Put a bunch of vulcans in a room with a problem, you'll get a bunch of vulcans patiently explaining to each other why their solution is the only logical course of action and their respected comrades are misguided and/or illogical.

Sign me up for the romulans.

I always thought they always needed more screen time in the later shows.

[Morpheus]

I'll side with the Tribbles

Pros:

- They're born pregnant -> instant population boom

- Although the Klingons obliterated them, Sisco have bring them back in DS9 era.

Given enough food, the Tribbles will overwhelm the galaxy in number.

On other tought, I'll side with anyone except these:

- Federations (thats inlcude the puny human, disgusting ferengi and the Vulcans, but I accept Betazoid females )

- Klingons

[Fit For Natalie]

The Federation for me.

Things to consider:

- While the Federation Starfleet is typically smaller than that of their rivals (including the Klingons), they make up for it by generally being of a higher quality and are better defended to comparable class types.

- The Federation's size and diverse membership means the people are (largely) united and patriotic. The Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, Dominion ect rely on subjugated specifies to mine their resources and do work that's too good for them.

- Vast resources: lots of colonized worlds and members means lots of resources to call upon in times of need. Lack of greed or want means groups aren't hoarding things out of self-interest.

- Scientific superiority: While Starfleet my lag behind, say, the Dominion in weapons, even they had to respect Starfleet's resourcefulness. A republic built upon science and exploration means the Federation and Starfleet can quickly solve problems faster than their rivals can.

- Unofficially, the Federation has what is arguably the greatest intelligence agency in the galaxy (they pwned the Founders). Ignoring the various continuity errors in Nemesis, Section 31 also effectively control the Romulan Tal'Shiar.

[Alpha OTS]

I was in GameStop browsing today and saw the PS2 Star Trek Encounters for 10 bucks. I picked it up because this thread has put Star Trek on my brain. Seems worth 10 bucks so far.

I love watching and listening to Klingons, but I never understood how they were ever a technological force(militarily or otherwise) to be reckoned with because a Klingon scientist is pretty much an oxymoron.

I'll go with Federation during the TOS movies. The technology is better but not as stifled by technobabble, and space is still a vast and unexplored ocean.

[Uxi]

I still prefer the TOS/Movie Klingons-as-Space-Mongols instead of the "You have no honor" Samurai-Kzin style schtick from TNG.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

I'd take any side that leaves me alone with a holodeck and the porn program library.

On a side note, I think that if mankind invented the holodeck, that'll be the last thing ever invented.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Retracting Head Ter Ter

[eugimon]

I'd take any side that leaves me alone with a holodeck and the porn program library.

On a side note, I think that if mankind invented the holodeck, that'll be the last thing ever invented.

mankind being the operative word... women on the other hand, would probably finally get around to the utopia they always seem to go on about.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

mankind being the operative word... women on the other hand, would probably finally get around to the utopia they always seem to go on about.

Which is the shopping mall with unlimited credit holodeck program.

[buddhafabio]

i would side with the Q, then all of the other races would become my play things. i would get board, then start a massive attack on ds9. if that does not thrill me fling a few federation ships into borg space just to watch the fun let the crew get assimilated and then "fix" the assimilation.

if that werent enough klingons on tootoos doing the ballet.

or make a huge asteroid of gold pressed latinum and place it in front of a ferengi ship and make it act like a carrot in front of a donkey tied to a string on a stick over his head.

Edited March 8, 2008 by buddhafabio

[Warmaker]

TOS era Federation for me, not the TNG era.

The Federation would like to be friends but they didn't have any problems with kicking your a** in a heartbeat. Not like the pus**fied TNG era Feds. Nothing like exploring the galaxy, kicking hostile alien a** at the drop of a hat, and screwing chicks while you do it.

The Federation of Kirk's era > All

[JB0]

TOS era Federation for me, not the TNG era.

The Federation would like to be friends but they didn't have any problems with kicking your a** in a heartbeat. Not like the pus**fied TNG era Feds. Nothing like exploring the galaxy, kicking hostile alien a** at the drop of a hat, and screwing chicks while you do it.

The Federation of Kirk's era > All

I thought Kirk was a tad unique among Feddie captains. Weren't most of them supposed to be a bit more... reserved?

[Warmaker]

The Federation in Kirk's era, I have always felt since watching it as a kid and comparing it to later series, was much quicker to go to war... or at least start gleefully firing their Phasers and shooting Photon volleys. The great example is the episode with the Klingon & Federation push onto the Organian planet where the inhabitants outwardly seemed backward. The Federation, especially in that episode, was going full bore towards war. No talk of diplomacy to bring things to a peaceful halt before full-fledged war between the Klingons and Federation. The only reason diplomacy was being used at all was to gain an advantage for the upcoming war. Kirk was sold into it also, and the Feds sent their best to diplomatically bring the Organians into the war (and act as a base of operations) before the Klingons do. Even at the beginning of the episode, you already hear of strong Starfleet military movements for war. None of this space-hippie-cr*p of the TNG era Federation.

The Romulans even performed unprovoked strikes on Federation outposts along the Fed-Rom Neutral Zone. The whole episode with the cloaked Romulan Bird of Prey. There was no active, declared war between the Romulans and Federation that you hear of. The Neutral Zone was obviously placed as a "no-mans-land" between the two powers because of a recent conflict (Trekkie gurus, correct me if I'm wrong). Even with no war between the two powers, a Neutral Zone in place, the Romulans were blasting Federation outposts for kicks.

When the Federation got news of these outposts being destroyed by something (which I'm assuming they had a fair guess who was doing it), they sent its best, Capt.Kirk to deal with the problem. When it was obvious it was a series of military strikes by the Romulans, Kirk dealt with it in military fashion. And Starfleet it seems had no problem with it.

Look at it like this also: Are there any so blatantly unorthodox Starfleet Captains or above that can maintain or had a long career in the TNG or later eras? No, none that I'm aware of.

I do recall one TNG episode where this is exemplified even more. There's a treaty in place between the Federation and Cardassians due to a recent conflict. This certain Nebula Cruiser captain, a famed veteran of that conflict and friend of Chief O'Brien, had suspected the Cardassians to be secretly shipping armaments into a region that violated that treaty and threatened the balance of power in that area should war erupt. This captain went around proving it in a very unorthodox fashion, even resorting to combat against suspected Cardassian shipping. Despite his attempts at informing Starfleet, they wouldn't believe the Cardassians would even attempt such a thing. Starfleet dispatched Capt.Picard to figure WTH is going on and reign him in. In the end, despite obvious proof that the Cardassians were violating the treaty, that Nebula captain was canned, despite his glorious service in the past and having proved himself right to Picard. Picard then says that the Federation will now "keep an eye" on the Cardassians... after the fact that a decorated captain had to sacrifice his career to even get the stupid TNG Federation to look at the Cardassians.

The Feds have had many recent conflicts which always seemed alluded to in the TOS, i.e. Romulans and Klingons, especially the Klingons. I always felt that due to the common occurence of skirmishes and war, the Feds weren't shy of going to combat / war during Kirk's days. They weren't going to take s**t from their rivals.

As for the Post-Dominion War period, I'm curious to see how the Federation will act militarily and diplomatically compared to its recent past and the TOS era, especially given a few years.

Some TOS inspirational goodness

Edited March 10, 2008 by Warmaker

[Beware of Blast]