Graham Posted July 28, 2008 Author Posted July 28, 2008 but its awfully close that that Bandai VF-2SS they put out a while back (complete with the coloured canopy)! And they put out the VF-2SS kit 16 fricken years ago! Graham
Vifam7 Posted July 28, 2008 Posted July 28, 2008 Ya all need to chill out. What we're seeing is nothing but prototypes and rushed photo-op/display stuff. The true quality of this kit won't be recognized until someone actually gets a kit, looks at the pieces, and does a dryrun or quick 'sugumi' build.
Berttt Posted July 28, 2008 Posted July 28, 2008 All I know is that the Hasegawa VF/YF series protypes looked sweet. This doesn't so there's your comparison wrt pre production standards vs the release.
valkyrie13 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Wow! I'm afraid it looks like it will take a lot more than just filling and sanding to get this model looking right!! I'm so deparate to WANT to like this thing, I'm really disappointed with each successive photo I'm seeing - its looking more and more toylike. Yeah, that side on view on Photo no. 2 looks horribly gangly to the point where I don't know what to do to the proportions to make it look anywhere acceptable. The gears are horribly fat and lumpy for a 1/72 scale, similar to the EX version 1.0 of the Yukikaze (but that was 1/100 so they had an excuse) - but as far as I'm concerned, the gears for this 1/72 are pretty much un-useable for a model (maybe for a toy). Don't get me started on the wheel wells, yeah, they stuck a bunch of detail in there, but its so shallow, its a lot of work and time to cut it out and deepen it and re-build the side wells with details that are convincing (shallow wells were a thing of the 70s past model evils). Again, maybe if it were a toy that might be acceptable, but comon! hey its a model! I'm so bummed out! I love the mech design and this is all we get?!! Maybe I'll calm down a little later and look at them again, but its awfully close that that Bandai VF-2SS they put out a while back (complete with the coloured canopy)! Well, what can you say? Bandai is a "Toy" company. Their attitude towards plastic "model" kits have always been to complement the toys that they produce and in my book, GunPla is just another unassembled toy. Of course, there are decent kits out there that can transform into a pretty good model but with a lot of modfications using putty, plastic strips and plates as well as aftermarket parts. I am sure that with enough demand and sales of these 1/72 kits when released that there would be aftermarket parts to convert them into a decent "static" model.
valkyrie13 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Probably will be. Based on the latest articles in Hobby Japan and Dengeki Hobby, I believe Bandai has announced that these 1/72 "model" kits will indeed be "snap-fit" just like GunPla. In fact, one of the articles noted that Bandai was ambitiously applying its accumulated know-hows from the evolution of GunPla to this kit, which Bandai was unable to do for the Macross 7 series of models.
Valkyrie addict Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 well...I'm not surprised, BanDai has always made shitty macross kits...geez, if they can't make the model look right, I can't imagine the 1/60 dx crap...why didn't hasegawa pick this up??
valkyrie13 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 well...I'm not surprised, BanDai has always made shitty macross kits...geez, if they can't make the model look right, I can't imagine the 1/60 dx crap...why didn't hasegawa pick this up?? Agreed. What made it worse I guess is that Bandai decided to make a "transforming" scale model. IMHO, that's an oxymoron. You don't "transform" models period. Bandai should have gone with a fighter and battroid modes separately like Hasegawa, giving the modelers a chance to buy 2 kits and to buy 2 more to chop up and build gerwalk modes.
Vifam7 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 well...I'm not surprised, BanDai has always made shitty macross kits...geez, if they can't make the model look right, I can't imagine the 1/60 dx crap...why didn't hasegawa pick this up?? Simple. Hasegawa didn't put up the funds to create the new Macross Frontier anime series.
Vifam7 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Agreed. What made it worse I guess is that Bandai decided to make a "transforming" scale model. IMHO, that's an oxymoron. You don't "transform" models period. Bandai should have gone with a fighter and battroid modes separately like Hasegawa, giving the modelers a chance to buy 2 kits and to buy 2 more to chop up and build gerwalk modes. From what I've read in various Japanese sites, the feeling I got was that most Japanese fans WANTED the kit to be transforming and EXPECTS Bandai to create a transforming kit with quality that is on-par with MG Gunpla kits. Now some here might say Gundam models are not model kits or that their kits are up to Hasegawa quality but that's beside the point. I think the idea amongst some fans is that - if the model doesn't transform, it's not a perfect representation of a Valkyrie (a fighter plane that transforms). Personally I think it's a good idea for these new Valk kits to be Gunpla-like. It has the potential of bringing in more fans to buy the kits. Lets face it, many fans simply don't have the skills to make a Hasegawa kit. The more fans buy these kits, the better the chances for more Macross anime in the near future.
PetarB Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I think it's great everyone's so passionate about this subject. I really like the shape of the VF-25. From what I can see so far, I don't like Bandai's take on it, but I guess that will just mean my version will be a bit different from the 'gunpla' style assembly, which is fine with me. I love challenges, and this looks like it's shaping up to be one. Vifam has some good points, and I think it will be great if it brings more fans and creates a viable ongoing product line. I just wish Bandai had kept their toy line and their model line more separate.
Noyhauser Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 From what I've read in various Japanese sites, the feeling I got was that most Japanese fans WANTED the kit to be transforming and EXPECTS Bandai to create a transforming kit with quality that is on-par with MG Gunpla kits. Now some here might say Gundam models are not model kits or that their kits are up to Hasegawa quality but that's beside the point. I think the idea amongst some fans is that - if the model doesn't transform, it's not a perfect representation of a Valkyrie (a fighter plane that transforms). Good to know, So at what point does the "transformation sequence" get to trump realism? Because I'm looking at this model and from what I've seen of other bandai products I have bought in the past, I'm seeing something that doesn't strike me as a "perfect representation" of valk. It strikes me as model with a bunch of compromises which is now in essence a glorified toy for beginner modelers. Personally I think it's a good idea for these new Valk kits to be Gunpla-like. It has the potential of bringing in more fans to buy the kits. Lets face it, many fans simply don't have the skills to make a Hasegawa kit. The more fans buy these kits, the better the chances for more Macross anime in the near future. Thats nice and all, but that still doesn't do anything for me as a modeler. I and the other modelers on here are consumers as well and we have a right to say what we want. Call me crazy, but I'm willing to bet there is more than a couple japanese modelers sitting at their computer right now saying the same things we are. If they want fans to come, make a toy with EMSIA or Zeonography level quality or something. Instead the toy fans are looking like they will shafted with the 1/60 DX, just like the true modelers are getting this bad compromise of a model. I hope I get proved wrong, but I'm not counting on it.
big F Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Kinda bang to me that they are panda-ing to the toy collectors "hey look toy collectors you can do models too, and play with them" Snap fix Meh!!! I think I may pass on these totally. Its a model not a toy Hell I dont even play with my toys they are collections not for zooming around the house going woosh!!! If you have kids that play with them great I dont (yet).
valkyrie13 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Good to know, So at what point does the "transformation sequence" get to trump realism? Because I'm looking at this model and from what I've seen of other bandai products I have bought in the past, I'm seeing something that doesn't strike me as a "perfect representation" of valk. It strikes me as model with a bunch of compromises which is now in essence a glorified toy for beginner modelers. Thats nice and all, but that still doesn't do anything for me as a modeler. I and the other modelers on here are consumers as well and we have a right to say what we want. Call me crazy, but I'm willing to bet there is more than a couple japanese modelers sitting at their computer right now saying the same things we are. If they want fans to come, make a toy with EMSIA or Zeonography level quality or something. Instead the toy fans are looking like they will shafted with the 1/60 DX, just like the true modelers are getting this bad compromise of a model. I hope I get proved wrong, but I'm not counting on it. My sentiments whole-heartedly... Amen!
Vifam7 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 (edited) Good to know, So at what point does the "transformation sequence" get to trump realism? Well that depends on how one views the Valkyrie mecha itself. Because I'm looking at this model and from what I've seen of other bandai products I have bought in the past, I'm seeing something that doesn't strike me as a "perfect representation" of valk. It strikes me as model with a bunch of compromises which is now in essence a glorified toy for beginner modelers. I suppose that's probably exactly what Bandai wants to sell because that's what they feel sells in volume. Thats nice and all, but that still doesn't do anything for me as a modeler. I and the other modelers on here are consumers as well and we have a right to say what we want. Call me crazy, but I'm willing to bet there is more than a couple japanese modelers sitting at their computer right now saying the same things we are. Ofcourse you have the right to complain. And I'm sure you are right about some modelers bemoaning the Gunpla style models. But, perhaps times are changing and the market favors catering to the non-true modelers. If they want fans to come, make a toy with EMSIA or Zeonography level quality or something. Oh god no. Non-scale PVC toys like EMSiA and GFF are crap. Instead the toy fans are looking like they will shafted with the 1/60 DX, just like the true modelers are getting this bad compromise of a model. I understand your view as a true modeler. But let's not jump the gun yet. While the photos are not encouraging it may still turn out that the kit and sculpt is within one's own acceptable boundaries. Edited July 29, 2008 by Vifam7
CF18 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Speaking of hard-core scale model, you may take the retirement of "Dengeki Scale Modeler" magazine as an indication of where this market is heading. http://hobby.dengeki.com/densca/index.html
CF18 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 They say "suspend publication", and the sister mag "Dengeki Hobby" magazine will increase coverage on scale model.
electric indigo Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I think unlike other Bandai Macross models, this one can be turned into a proper fighter with a minimal amount of DIY modeling. I still have high hopes they'll go down the line to the Q-Reas if the sales figures are alright for the VF-25s.
Noyhauser Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I think unlike other Bandai Macross models, this one can be turned into a proper fighter with a minimal amount of DIY modeling. I still have high hopes they'll go down the line to the Q-Reas if the sales figures are alright for the VF-25s. Hmm I'm not too sure about that; the air intake area looks terrible; and its gotten worse in successive photos. However, I think its battroid looks pretty good (probably the primary mode they designed it for), though it might have a case of the rickets, based on the camera angle.
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 (edited) So all the japanese fans of MacF actually prefer the gundam style kits? I think the gundam fans view macross more as a robot show where robots turn into planes vs planes with a robot mode. Maybe that's who bandai want to cater to for now? Where other companies like yamato wanted to get closer to being fighters with a robot mode. I've always thought bandai likes the chunky robot approach because it kinda suggests power. Does this mean we won't see hasegawa models of vf-25 in the future or is it only for now? Edited July 29, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
Fly4victory Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Speaking of hard-core scale model, you may take the retirement of "Dengeki Scale Modeler" magazine as an indication of where this market is heading. This is not good news. Bandai is an interesting company. They can do a great to good and a poor job at the same time. Their performance is not line discrimination. I would like to think that they were lazy with Macross in the past and stellar with Gundam. BUT! The VF-19 Kia metal coated was a variable model that looked awful in fighter and gerwalk but makes a decent battroid. The normal color that was released is just plain ugly in all incarnations. The VF-2SS, again a variable model but when I first looked at it left it in the box. Parts are molded in the wrong color... other parts poorly engineered. Best described as an almost but not quite. Re-released with no improvements except a glossy finish on the box and a 25th anniversary sticker. Bandai's M7 toys awful. The VF-19 model was better than the toy but not by much. The VF-17 toy is built like a tank and looks like one in fighter and gerwalk. The Battroid was decent and makes a better toy with modifications. Now Gundam: I can see why people both like and dislike the Zeonography and the other Gundam toys. They look like airbrushed models but are toys. Not very good articulation and some poor fit others great. All very expensive. But Gundam is Bandai's flag ship and a cash cow. The Gundam models range for spectacular to what were they thinking. The performance is still inconsistent. I just got a 1/144 Desert Color Dom and 1/144 Zaku sniper. Great kits that needed no paint and are well designed kits. They are just beautiful to look at even before assembled. I also got the 1/144 Strike (Normal Colors) and the 1/144 IWSP. No where near as nice a kit. Only a little more effort and a few more parts molded in the correct color, especially the shield gatling gun and shoulders, and it would be a great kit. I really don't know what to expect from Bandai but I do know it will not be on par with a Hasegawa. We can sit and hope that Hasegawa will get the license in the future but we have yet to see any M7 Hasegawa models. It really doesn't matter if one person with lots of putty and styrene can make a great looking kit out of a POS. I just want a model that I look at and think wow this will look great finished. Bandai can do it but will they?
Vifam7 Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 (edited) So all the japanese fans of MacF actually prefer the gundam style kits? I think the gundam fans view macross more as a robot show where robots turn into planes vs planes with a robot mode. Maybe that's who bandai want to cater to for now? Where other companies like yamato wanted to get closer to being fighters with a robot mode. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Bandai favors the robot mode. That's just conjecture based on dislike of fans not liking one mode or the other. I think it's just a matter of compromises. Keep in mind, Yamato also made compromises for V2.0 1/60 (like some folks not liking the short looking nose) Does this mean we won't see hasegawa models of vf-25 in the future or is it only for now? It's entirely possible for Hasegawa to release a VF-25 kit after Bandai has done it's rounds and are content. It depends on who owns the merchandising rights for the Macross Frontier property, how much Bandai is invested in the property, and whether Hasegawa is even interested. It's all business. Heck, who knows, maybe it's Tamiya who next wants to take a shot at Valkyrie models. Edited July 30, 2008 by Vifam7
Hikuro Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 whatever bandai decides to do with he model I'm cool with. however, toy form is different, I expect alot for 150 dollars of my money. However seeing the affordablility of the model, thats higher on my list then the toy. i can buy 3 of these for the price of 1 1/60 figure.
Salamander Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 The VF-19 Kia metal coated was a variable model that looked awful in fighter and gerwalk but makes a decent battroid. The normal color that was released is just plain ugly in all incarnations. They are the same mold. Bandai's M7 toys awful. The VF-19 model was better than the toy but not by much. The VF-17 toy is built like a tank and looks like one in fighter and gerwalk. The Battroid was decent and makes a better toy with modifications. Awful for collectors, great for kids. Which, AFAIK, was the primary aim of the M7 series, seeing it was broadcast on TV etc. The Gundam models range for spectacular to what were they thinking. The performance is still inconsistent. I just got a 1/144 Desert Color Dom and 1/144 Zaku sniper. Great kits that needed no paint and are well designed kits. They are just beautiful to look at even before assembled. I also got the 1/144 Strike (Normal Colors) and the 1/144 IWSP. No where near as nice a kit. Only a little more effort and a few more parts molded in the correct color, especially the shield gatling gun and shoulders, and it would be a great kit. and The VF-2SS, again a variable model but when I first looked at it left it in the box. Parts are molded in the wrong color... other parts poorly engineered. Best described as an almost but not quite. Re-released with no improvements except a glossy finish on the box and a 25th anniversary sticker. We real modellers PAINT (and often modify) our models, so we don't suffer from that little problem. The only reason many mecha models come molded in colors is that people who only have paint marker can touch them up and make them look somewhat more like the 'actual' thing... I really don't know what to expect from Bandai but I do know it will not be on par with a Hasegawa. We can sit and hope that Hasegawa will get the license in the future but we have yet to see any M7 Hasegawa models. It really doesn't matter if one person with lots of putty and styrene can make a great looking kit out of a POS. I just want a model that I look at and think wow this will look great finished. Bandai can do it but will they? As far as I can see, it's going to be on par with a HG to MG Gundam. Hasegawa makes really nice models, but they can't transform and are a lot more fragile than most of Bandai's models (differences in the type of styrene used...). It's not a POS. You obviously have never seen a real POS model. Here's a little list on what they tend to suffer from: - really bad proportions. - really crap engineering with parts not fitting others in all senses of the words. - mold defects like flash, depressions, and gaps. - shitty plastic that breaks if you look funny at it. - shitty plastic that doesn't like paint. - rubber parts that desintegrate when you touch them. - shitty instruction/decal/sticker sheets (or worse: none at all!). - shitty boxes.
valkyrie13 Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 They say "suspend publication", and the sister mag "Dengeki Hobby" magazine will increase coverage on scale model. It is true that the scale modeling industry has been struggling for quite some time and with all the new pastimes that are now available for the younger generation competing for time spent indoors (e.g., XBox and PS), it's not too surprising. However, the suspension of "Dengeki Scale Modeler" is not necessarily a true indication of where the industry is going since this magazine has not been around for too long. My take on it was Dengeki experimenting whether there is a market for this publication in light of the rekindled interest in scale modeling and I frankly don't know what the reason behind the suspension of publication is to comment on their decision. Notwithstanding, it is amazing how many die hard modelers are out there with a lot more dough to spend on modeling. Just think of all the aftermarket photoetch and metal parts that are newly being released, as well as the enormously wide range of items/products being produced by the Chinese model companies (e.g., Dragon, Trumpeter - albeit thanks to cheap labor). Back on topic, while it's true that having a plastic model kit to use as a base to build a decent model with modifications and aftermarket parts (as it sure beats scratch building or making resin kits), it is still a shame that we may not have a decent "scale" model that can be built straight out of the box. With that said, I'd like to reserve judgment until the kit is out on the market. Whether or not it is true to the world of modelers, I am pretty sure I am going to pick one of these up.
Fly4victory Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 (edited) We real modellers PAINT (and often modify) our models, so we don't suffer from that little problem. It's not a POS. You obviously have never seen a real POS model. Here's a little list on what they tend to suffer from: - really bad proportions. - really crap engineering with parts not fitting others in all senses of the words. - mold defects like flash, depressions, and gaps. - shitty plastic that breaks if you look funny at it. - shitty plastic that doesn't like paint. - rubber parts that desintegrate when you touch them. - shitty instruction/decal/sticker sheets (or worse: none at all!). - shitty boxes. So you're a real modeller? :lol: Do you airbrush without a mask and sniff glue or just say "I am a real modeller" in front for a mirror over and over again to be so rude. Edit: Comments aren't clever when spelled wrong. Edited July 30, 2008 by Fly4victory
TSP Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 You guys really made my day. First I received a cancellation for a pre- ordered kit and now the that Dengeki Scale Modeler is no more. Well poo happens. Just like the Bandai VF-25 which I think doesn't look that awful. If you don't like to transform it into Battroid mode than just glue the kit in fighter position. The big gap between the air intake in picture 2 is only because the upper part isn't snapped into it's right position. They must have made these pictures in a hurry. In the first picture of the Hobby Japan scan you don't see that gap.
badboy00z Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 So all we know is that it comes out sometime in August? No exact dates?
Major Focker Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 i starting to wonder about the scarcity of pre-orders (actually haven't seen any) for these considering they're supposed to come out before the toys
big F Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 i starting to wonder about the scarcity of pre-orders (actually haven't seen any) for these considering they're supposed to come out before the toys May be its gonna get pushed back etc
vince_sv51 Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10075554 VF-25F Messiah Valkyrie Aruto Type (Plastic model kit) set for release in September.
yaiba Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet, but HLJ has a photo of painted prototypes taken at the Tokyo Toy Show.
007-vf1 Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 Actually, that pic looks like a real model to me... Except for the fuselage close to the cockpit area I don't see any 'mayor' gaps.. Besides; how could we call ourselves modelers if we don't put some of our magic skills to the test? Even Hasegawa's needed a bit of TLC fixing here and there to make them look prime... I will buy this kit, and at its worst, customize it...
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