CG Star Wars movie in theatres this august

[lord_breetai]

For Christiansen, he really gets the bad rap for AotC. Due to how the character at that age was supposed to be portrayed, the poor guy had to be the driver for the Waaambulance It got better for him in RotS. But he didn't get any great Vader lines. All that was done by James Earl Jones.

the suit doesn't make him Vader though... as soon as he became a sith right after Mace died, that's when he became Darth Vader... then he went on a killing spree and was nasty as hell!

And Harrison Ford also said, "you can write this poo, but you can't say it"

[Warmaker]

Uxi, you're not the first one to make mention about Lucas' direction after ANH. That movie is still great. ESB many tout as the best SW movie of them all (which I agree with), and Lucas wasn't director.

There's no doubt Lucas has the big picture and how things are supposed to go. But I heard he's real... "exact" in what the actors are supposed to do.

Hayden Christensen: "I don't think doing this and saying this set of lines is great for this character, Mr.Lucas."

George Lucas: "You'll do as I say! And around here you call me Darth Jesus!!!"

Hayden Christensen: "Umm... ok, Mr.Lu-... umm, Darth Jesus."

As for Revenge of the Sith itself, I had the misfortune of reading the novel by Matthew Stover before watching the movie. I was training in Yuma, AZ, and saw the book in a local store, and snagged it up. Part of the hype leading up to the release of the flick. Anyways, the book was great and I imagined how the movie would be like. I was disappionted the movie didn't have all the things the book had, but this sort of thing happens all the time.

If anyone wants, I can PM 2 sections that blew away the movie's depiction of the same events. I still have the old one I sent to someone that asked about back in 2005

[Twoducks]

Using the Force for Awesome, rather than good.

Good one.

[Uxi]

Uxi, you're not the first one to make mention about Lucas' direction after ANH. That movie is still great. ESB many tout as the best SW movie of them all (which I agree with), and Lucas wasn't director.

I myself tend to think TESB is a bit overrated amongst the 6, but I won't sidetrack to that one either. RotJ was my favorite as a kid and remains so to this day. Then it's probably a close run between RotS or TESB. But anyways... Lucas had a well known falling out with the Directors Guild... which may be one of the reasons he can't just choose any director, even if he wants to. It would have to be another outside of the DGA, which definitely limits his choices. Mostly, he probably just wants to do it all himself. His strengths in the visual realm are still quite impressive... his interpersonal acting, not so much.

As for Revenge of the Sith itself, I had the misfortune of reading the novel by Matthew Stover before watching the movie. I was training in Yuma, AZ, and saw the book in a local store, and snagged it up. Part of the hype leading up to the release of the flick. Anyways, the book was great and I imagined how the movie would be like. I was disappionted the movie didn't have all the things the book had, but this sort of thing happens all the time.

Let me guess.... Mace Windu and his Posse confronting Darth Sidious... and... Anakin/Vader's dialogue with Obi-wan before the duel? The Jedi fight with Sidious really just needs some more editing. Take out that shot of Palpatine pulling back his saber to thrust (IOW go straight from the "twirl jump" to his impaling Agen Kolar and its' far more impressive (the guy is dead before he knows what hits him). Sasees decapitation from the novel and Agen Kolar's hole in his head were far better done. The need to "hide" his lightsaber in some statue or whatever it was, I thought was completely unnecessary.

What Stover did best was put in the political stuff. The reason the tensions between the Jedi and Chancellor were growing so tense was becuase of the further amendment to the Security Act, which put the Jedi from the the control of the Senate at large to the specific control of the Chancellor.

[Wes]

Star Wars has tacky lines all over, even in the Original Trilogy.

Also, even the good actors rolling into Star Wars had to deal with some of the bad dialogue. Natalie Portman before Ep.I had more varied, better roles. But she's mostly been "stiff," esp. in TPM. In AotC, she's got more playroom, but in RotS, not much. Just a scene here, there, put on a funny wig / hairdo, and stand there and say something. That's it. Even Alec Guinness commented during filming of ANH of having to say "those bloody awful lines," yet he still did it as a professional.

For Christiansen, he really gets the bad rap for AotC. Due to how the character at that age was supposed to be portrayed, the poor guy had to be the driver for the Waaambulance It got better for him in RotS. But he didn't get any great Vader lines. All that was done by James Earl Jones.

"When I left you Obi-Wan, I was but the learner, now I am the master!"

"The Admiral is as clumsy as he is stupid."

"I am your father!"

All of these, and more are > "NNNnnnnooooOOOO!!1!!111!"

He didn't even get the chance to do anything cool with the Darth Vader suit on. I was hoping to see him slay Jedi scum with the armor on before Ep.III came out.

How can you forget about those rebel scum?

Besides it'll be David Prowse suiting up!

[CoryHolmes]

What Stover did best was put in the political stuff. The reason the tensions between the Jedi and Chancellor were growing so tense was becuase of the further amendment to the Security Act, which put the Jedi from the the control of the Senate at large to the specific control of the Chancellor.

The only problem with that is political stuff is long, drawn-out, and potentially boring if handled incorrectly. Star Wars movies tell their stories with actions, not words. I'm a big fan of all that backstory and would like to see more of it... but not in a film that has so much else to tell.

[Warmaker]

Let me guess.... Mace Windu and his Posse confronting Darth Sidious... and... Anakin/Vader's dialogue with Obi-wan before the duel? The Jedi fight with Sidious really just needs some more editing. Take out that shot of Palpatine pulling back his saber to thrust (IOW go straight from the "twirl jump" to his impaling Agen Kolar and its' far more impressive (the guy is dead before he knows what hits him). Sasees decapitation from the novel and Agen Kolar's hole in his head were far better done. The need to "hide" his lightsaber in some statue or whatever it was, I thought was completely unnecessary.

What Stover did best was put in the political stuff. The reason the tensions between the Jedi and Chancellor were growing so tense was becuase of the further amendment to the Security Act, which put the Jedi from the the control of the Senate at large to the specific control of the Chancellor.

The other things the book had the luxury of putting in or improving that the movie couldn't (time constraints):

1) Anakin's slower turning in the book compared to the almost abrupt nature in the movie. The book stretched it out. Small bits here and there, a seed of doubt here and another further down the road. For me, this was far more believable than, "I think I'll cut off Windu's hand now."

2) In the beginning, before Anakin & Obi-Wan face Count Dooku, you get to read into Dooku's smug thoughts on how the soon to exist Empire will be run with his leadership. His smug words of confidence to the 2 Jedi before fighting. Then him realizing that he's in serious s**t.

3) Qui-Gon's force spirit speaking to Master Yoda at the end. Before seeing the movie, I was really hoping to see Liam Neeson reprise his role as Qui-Gon for that scene, even if it was only his voice.

4) The groundwork for the Rebellion being laid, as far as the motivation and reasoning, if not necessarily outright buildup of forces.

5) The fight scene between the Jedi Masters and Palpatine was far more satisfying and drawn out in the book. What was great was the feeling that Palpatine was relieved the time had come to finally be discovered... on HIS terms... by the Jedi. How he relished the moment that he would finally begin to kill Jedi himself after waiting, planning, manipulating from the darkness for so long.

6) The fight between Palpatine and Yoda was d**n good in the book, and goes into detail why the Jedi never had a chance in beating the Sith this time around. Not against Palpatine.

7) The discussion between Anakin & Obi-Wan just after the Council meeting where Anakin is allowed in the Council but not as a Master. Obi-Wan, on secret orders of the Council asks Anakin to spy his old friend, Palpatine. Anakin's reaction on the Order asking him to breach trust and friendship for politics? Good stuff for the book.

Shortly afterwards, the Gunship scene with Yoda, Windu, and Obi-Wan:

They streaked through the capital's sky.

Obi-Wan stared past Yoda and Mace Windu, out through the gunship's window at the vast deployment platform and the swarm of clones who were loading the assault cruiser at the far end.

"You weren't there," he said. "You didn't see his face. I think we have done a terrible thing."

"We don't always have the right answer," Mace Windu said. "Sometimes there isn't a right answer."

"Know how important your friendship with young Anakin is to you, I do." Yoda, too, stared out toward the stark angles of the assault cruiser being loaded for the counterinvasion of Kashyyyk; he stood leaning on his gimer stick as though he did not trust his legs. "Allow such attachments to pass out of one's life, a Jedi must."

Another man--- even another Jedi--- might have resented the rebuke, but Obi-Wan only sighed. "I suppose--- he is the chosen one, after all. The prophecy says he was born to bring balance to the Force, but..."

The words trailed off. He couldn't remember what he'd been about to say. All he could remember was the look on Anakin's face.

"Yes. Always in motion, the future is." Yoda lifted his head and his eyes narrowed to his thoughtful slits. "And the prophecy, misread it could have been."

Mace looked even grimmer than usual. "Since the fall of Darth Bane more than a millennium ago, there have been hundreds of thousands of Jedi--- hundreds of thousand of Jedi feeding the light with each work of their hands, with each breath, with every beat of their hearts, bringing justice, building civil society, radiating peace, acting out of selfless love for all living things--- and in all these thousands of years, there have been only two Sith at any time. They merely use the darkness that is always there. That has always been there. Greed and jealousy, aggression and lust and fear--- these are all natural to sentient beings. The legacy of the jungle. Our inheritance from the dark."

"I'm sorry, Master Windu, but I'm not sure I follow you. Are you saying--- to follow your metaphor--- that the Jedi have cast too much light? From what I have seen these past years, the galacy has not become all that bright a place."

"All I am saying is that we don't know. We don't even truly understand what it means to bring balance to the Force. We have no way of anticipating what this may involve."

"An infinite mystery is the Force," Yoda said softly. "The more we learn, the more we discover how much we do not know."

"So you both feel it, too," Obi-Wan said. The words hurt him. "You both can feel that we have turned some invisible corner."

"In motion, are the events of our time. Approach, this crisis does."

"Yes." Mace interlaced his fingers and squeezed until his knuckles popped. "But we're in a spice mine without a glow rod. If we stop walking, we'll never reach the light."

"And what if the light just isn't there?" Obi-Wan asked. "What if we get to the end of this tunnel and find only night?"

"Faith we must have. Trust in the will of the Force. What other choice is there?

Obi-Wan accepted this with a nod, but still when he thought of Anakin, dread began to curdle below his heart. "I should have argued more strongly in Council today."

"You think Skywalker won't be able to handle this?" Mace Windu said. "I thought you had more confidence in his abilities."

"I trust him with my life," Obi-Wan said simply. "And that is precisely the problem."

The other two Jedi Masters watched him silently while he tried to summon the proper words.

"For Anakin," Obi-Wan said at length, "there is nothing more important than friendship. He is the most loyal man I have ever met--- loyal beyond reason, in fact. Despite all I have tried to teach him about the sacrifices that are the heart of being a Jedi, he--- he will never, I think, truly understand."

He looked over at Yoda. "Master Yoda, you and I have been close since I was a boy. An infant. Yet if ending this war one week sooner--- one day sooner--- were to require that I sacrifice your life, you know I would."

"As you should," Yoda said. "As I would yours, young Obi-Wan. As any Jedi would any other, in the cause of peace."

"Any Jedi," Obi-Wan said, "except Anakin."

Yoda and Mace exchanged glances, both thoughtfully grim. Obi-Wan guessed they were remembering the times Anakin had violated orders--- the times he had put at risk entire operations, the lives of thousands, the control of whole planetary systems--- to save a friend.

More than once, in fact, to save Obi-Wan.

"I think," Obi-Wan said carefully, "that abstractions like peace don't mean much to him. He's loyal to people, not to principles. And he expects loyalty in return. He will stop at nothing to save me, for example, because he thinks I would do the same for him."

Mace and Yoda gazed at him steadily, and Obi-Wan had to lower his head.

"Because," he admitted reluctantly, "he knows I would do the same for him."

"Understand exactly where your concern lies, I do not." Yoda's green eyes had gone softly sympathetic. "Named must be your fear, before banish it you can. Do you fear that perform his task he cannot?"

"Oh, no. That's not it at all. I am firmly convinced that Anakin can do anything. Except betray a friend. What we have done to him today..."

"But that is what Jedi are," Mace Windu said. "That is what we have pledged ourselves to: selfless service---"

Obi-Wan turned to stare once more toward the assault ship that would carry Yoda and the clone battalions to Kashyyyk, but he could see only Anakin's face.

If he asked me to spy on you do you think I would do it?

"Yes," he said slowly. "That's why I don't think he will ever trust us again."

He found his eyes turning unaccountably hot, and his vision swam with unshed tears.

"And I'm not entirely sure he should."

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

When you think about it though, not showing darth vader kicking people's butts in ep III leaves a nice gap open for more shows/movies whatever post PT. More opportunity to milk that cash cow.

[eugimon]

warmaker:

Thanks for posting up that passage. I like how it even lays down a more solid framework for why anakin eventually helps Luke at the end... it's much more psychological than a simple "there's still good in him."

On the other hand, I kind of like that sort of simple moralizing that's found in the OT. It's such an homage to simpler times and to the stories and myths of old.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Yeah but it shows the weakness of the bad guys: eventually when they get too old and can't find a worthy student good enough to kill the master, they will have to recruit powerful people from anywhere they can find them, including good guys.

It was fated that darth vader would kill his master one day even without luke, just that anakin was too weak without his extra worms in his body to pull it off so he needed luke to help. His motivation to kill his master comes more from a need to gain power than helping luke.

But the power of the incestuous relationship between vader and princess leia's mom is what made it possible. Love > Evil. The jedi nor the sith are allowed to love or have feelings. That's what the balance was. It's no deeper than that. (which is why PT focuses so much on the romance) I bet movie audiences respond better to emotional/dramatic scene than words/logic. The words won't make you cry, but a movie with a dramatic scene can. Knights are ignorant of people's personal feelings. Sith are power mad dictators. But the sensible balance is a person who breaks the rules when common sense says it's necessary to. It's why priests and religious leaders are criticised as being a bit out of touch with real people's problems by liberals because they never loved or married and experienced it first hand, so why go to them to solve the problems which they admit they have no easy answer for?

Edited February 19, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[lord_breetai]

But the power of the incestuous relationship between vader and princess leia's mom is what made it possible. Love > Evil. The jedi nor the sith are allowed to love or have feelings. That's what the balance was. It's no deeper than that. (which is why PT focuses so much on the romance) I bet movie audiences respond better to emotional/dramatic scene than words/logic. The words won't make you cry, but a movie with a dramatic scene can. Knights are ignorant of people's personal feelings. Sith are power mad dictators. But the sensible balance is a person who breaks the rules when common sense says it's necessary to. It's why priests and religious leaders are criticised as being a bit out of touch with real people's problems by liberals because they never loved or married and experienced it first hand, so why go to them to solve the problems which they admit they have no easy answer for?

Except that their are lots of churches and religions that allow their priests to marry.

but that theory makes a lot of sense actually, because in the Tales of the Jedi comics Jedi could marry, and were in touch with their emotions. Those comics were fully endorsed by Lucas as the official backstory of the Jedi and Sith, and the KOTOR games explained why the order banned marriage some forty years after Tales... So Luke being the founder of a new order which resembled the old order in that it allowed marriage and the jedi are raised by normal parents in normal society, and Vader paving the way for that new order being what brings the force into balance is interesting.

[CoryHolmes]

I like how the prequels let us to see just how bad everything turned out. The bloated over-beaurocratic Republic that couldn't do anything without it being decided in a committee and signed off in triplicate, the ivory-tower Jedi who had become so far removed from the people they were protecting that resentment had built against them, the way private groups started to arm themselves to deal with pirates and brigands because the Republic wouldn't...

I like how we're able to see the decline of the Old Republic and see how Palpatine was able to push it just that little bit more and take it all. Let's face it, Palpy just stole the show in RotS

[Warmaker]

From my sort of sparse reading of the Republic's past, for a long time before the late Republic, there had always been seperate militaries within the Republic's own member worlds / sectors. I think the Republic, at crisis, would draw upon these forces, in addition to the core Republic Navy.

But bringing up the Republic Navy is interesting since you see it fluctuate alot during the franchise's history. In the far past of the KotOR / Sith - Mandalorian Wars era, the Republic Navy was THE spacefaring force of the Republic. You never see warships under the banner of something like the Trade Federation (which was a member of the Republic), Royal Naboo Security Forces, etc. All the goodguy warships have been clad in the Republic's red & white color pattern. All the crew & officers aboard those warships were uniform in appearance for the Republic Navy of the era: red & yellow.

By the time of the Late Republic, from Chancellor Valorum's office and early on in Palpatine's office, the appearance of seperate, individual military forces within the Republic grew very strong. In Ep.II, most of these threatened to gather together and pool their forces to eventually form the CIS / Seperatist movement. The Republic overall wasn't in a position to resist. They had no army! The only thing they had was a smaller but still respectable Republic Navy. The R.Navy was still strong enough of a concern in Ep.I for the blockading Trade Federation forces around Naboo, who feared military (and political / legal) intervention by the Republic. Only Sidious' guarantees pursuaded the TF to keep going with the blockade and invasion.

But when the Clone Wars comes full swing ahead, the Republic Navy is THE military force to fight against the CIS's forces. The strength of the Navy grew rapidly due to the scope and costs of the war. Surely the prestige of the Republic Navy grew along with the war. Outside of CIS member forces, you never hear of fleets or a strong group of ships fighting seperately for or directly under the Republic anymore (not in the movies).

But Sidious is great with all the planning

He knew that if he was going to form the Empire, he would have to grind down the powers most capable of openly defying him I think: Namely the ones that could form the CIS / Seperatist movement. These powers had the economic and industrial capability to easily produce a potent military force as you see in the Clone Wars. A force strong enough to resist a powerful, new Republic military (Navy and Grand Army). And when they were taken out or weakened from the war... snip... dead on Mustafar. The war is at an end. The Republic forces are left fully in charge and in war-time strengths.

Then the Empire comes into being from the Republic. The Grand Army of the Republic now becomes the Stormtroopers. The powerful Republic Navy is now the Imperial Navy. Nobody left to stand up to Palpatine's Empire openly and in strength like the CIS was able to do against the Republic.

Patience does have rewards

[Sumdumgai]

Any Republic that would allow Jar Jar to stand in for a Senator deserved to fall. Anyone dumb enough to have Jar Jar stand in for them as Senator deserved to die. And any Republic that felt that a vote called by Jar Jar was an intelligent idea... They got what they had coming to them

[Alpha OTS]

Any Republic that would allow Jar Jar to stand in for a Senator deserved to fall. Anyone dumb enough to have Jar Jar stand in for them as Senator deserved to die. And any Republic that felt that a vote called by Jar Jar was an intelligent idea... They got what they had coming to them

Correction, *General* Jar Jar.

[Warmaker]

More reasons why I love the Empire more than the Republic

[CoryHolmes]

But when the Clone Wars comes full swing ahead, the Republic Navy is THE military force to fight against the CIS's forces. The strength of the Navy grew rapidly due to the scope and costs of the war. Surely the prestige of the Republic Navy grew along with the war. Outside of CIS member forces, you never hear of fleets or a strong group of ships fighting seperately for or directly under the Republic anymore (not in the movies).

Which also neatly explains why all the officers in the OT had Coruscanti accents: the military became the new way of upper-crust families to maintain their political positions. Hence all of their children joined the military as that had become the new in-crowd to belong to.

But Sidious is great with all the planning

He knew that if he was going to form the Empire, he would have to grind down the powers most capable of openly defying him I think: Namely the ones that could form the CIS / Seperatist movement. These powers had the economic and industrial capability to easily produce a potent military force as you see in the Clone Wars. A force strong enough to resist a powerful, new Republic military (Navy and Grand Army). And when they were taken out or weakened from the war... snip... dead on Mustafar. The war is at an end. The Republic forces are left fully in charge and in war-time strengths.

Then the Empire comes into being from the Republic. The Grand Army of the Republic now becomes the Stormtroopers. The powerful Republic Navy is now the Imperial Navy. Nobody left to stand up to Palpatine's Empire openly and in strength like the CIS was able to do against the Republic.

Patience does have rewards

Agreed. Palpatine was everything a Sith Lord should be. Quiet, thoughful, vicious, intelligent, and above all else: patient. I like how his plans might not work out the way he expected them to, but he was able to roll with the punches and come up with a Plan B that was as good, if not better than his original idea.

I love how he saw the state of the Republic (the growing dissatisfaction with the bloated beaurocracy, the resentment toward the Jedi, the Jedi and their ivory-tower ideals) and very neatly lined up all the dominos so that all he had to do was tip one over...

And one of the coolest things ever is the dichotomy of the Sith Lords. They embrace the Dark Side, which abhores control, patience, calmness, or inaction. And yet for over a thousand years they had to practice in the shadows, skulking about while not doing anything overt. Each Sith Lord in succession had to content himself that he was doing his part for the future, when perhaps one of their number would strike back against their hated enemy. I really like that contrast in ideals.

By the time of the Late Republic, from Chancellor Valorum's office and early on in Palpatine's office, the appearance of seperate, individual military forces within the Republic grew very strong. In Ep.II, most of these threatened to gather together and pool their forces to eventually form the CIS / Seperatist movement.

That's what I meant. By that time, the "official" offices had become so bloated and unwieldy that private groups started to take matters into their own hands (CorSec springs to mind, as does the armed Trade Federation) be it for security or justice or whatnot.

[Dobber]

Does anyone know if the Theatrical release will be something NEW or is it just going to be the first few episodes of the series edited together to make a movie. Granted it's technically new either way because we haven't seen the first few episodes yet, but I think you all know what I mean.

Chris

[GRAND CANNON]

Just saw the the trailers running on G4......opens in 3 weeks and I'm looking forward to it and the TV series that follows!

Man, no other comments since February?!? Am I in the wrong thread......

[ruskiiVFaussie]

When i went to see the new bats movie i saw the posters just to remind me it's coming, i'll watch it for sure.

Big fan of the clone wars animated.

[David Hingtgen]

No comments? Am I the only one who saw it? My short take:

Good, but I liked the TV eps better. If anything---too much pointless (and often juvenile) banter. The TV series had entire eps with little/no talking.

[Duke Togo]

Its gotten some rather bad reviews, I ended up not going to see it.

[Hikuro]

Likewise, maybe I'll redbox it cause it'll be cheaper.

[areaseven]

Yup, not a lot of good reviews on this film. Too bad, as I was expecting it to be better than the last two Star Wars films.

Spill.com - Star Wars Clone Wars is between Rental and Some Ol' Bullsh*t

[eugimon]

It just doesn't look like something worth going to the theater for.

[David Hingtgen]

No, but the theater had grape Icee, which I've never had before, and was awesome. Icee>movie.

[eugimon]

No, but the theater had grape Icee, which I've never had before, and was awesome. Icee>movie.

you know that theaters are supposed to allow people in to make use of the concession stand whether or not they bought a ticket, right?

[VF-19]

I saw it a few days back. Long story short: It's not bad, but definatley could use some more revision. That, and I was really bugged by the whole look of the film. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something's off about the art.

The droid army soldiers were pretty funny though.

[lord_breetai]

you know that theaters are supposed to allow people in to make use of the concession stand whether or not they bought a ticket, right?

I think it depends on the theater, a lot of places I've been too the concession is behind the proof of payment area.

[Max Jenius]

I decided not to see it because of the inclusion of the token hip, young female jedi.

[Alpha OTS]

I decided not to see it because of the inclusion of the token hip, young female jedi.

Now whatever do you mean by that?

[eugimon]

wait... I thought anakin was supposed to be the young hip jedi?

[Sumdumgai]

The dialogue in the excerpts made my brain hurt from the cheese. I'll wait to see it on DVD if then.

[taksraven]

I decided not to see it because of the inclusion of the token hip, young female jedi.

What is it with you and females?

This franchise needs to be put on ice for a loooooooooong time. When they talk about the live-action series and how it will go for years and they expect to make hundreds of episodes, etc..... I shudder.

If they were going to film ANYTHING, I would be interested in seeing some adventures set after the fall of the Empire. Plenty of stuff to be explored there.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

Now whatever do you mean by that?

Poochie - BEST ONE-OFF CHARACTER EVER!!!!!!

Taksraven