air brush and compressor help please

[RichyX]

hello

just wondering if anyone could tell me which one of these 2 would be best to go for

i want to start getting into the modelling, ive built a couple of gundam pg kits but just assembled them

i have 2 macross kits that i want to try and do properly and use an airbrushh and paint them or customise them aswell

so would any of these be good to use?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/COMPLETE-AIRBRUSH-KI...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MINI-AIRBRUSH-COMPRE...1QQcmdZViewItem

i lik ethis one but not keen on where the water trap filter is and may cause problems when painting i think

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SprayMaster-4-pcs-Ai...1QQcmdZViewItem

also could someone recommend what paint is best to use, tools to buy etc

as im new to this so would need to get the lot

thanks

[thegunny]

i lik ethis one but not keen on where the water trap filter is and may cause problems when painting i think

Er where do you think the water trap should be

The regulator/water trap has to be where it is to do it's job.

Both those kits look pretty cheap and nasty to me. You only get what you pay for when it comes to good airbrush set ups.

Delta make some good airbrushes, they are all metal and parts are easy to come by (well at least where I am they are).

Badger & Paasche are also good brands.

[winterdyne]

If you're not too fussed about noise, a large tanked compressor can be got at machine mart for a reasonable price with regulator and moisture trap. The airbrushes they stock are ok too - dual action all metal fetch around £30. Wayyyy cheaper than model-specific. Just go in, tell 'em what you're trying to do and they'll show you appropriate kit.

The most important thing is to get a compressor with an air tank - not a simple pass-through one. You WILL notice the pulse, and it won't help you at all. The tank is paramount. Those cheap little compressors pulse like anything - avoid!

[magicsp00n]

That first link looks like a set of Badger brushes, but without it actually saying Badger, I'd get more info before bidding. If they are Badger, that's a good price for all that.

The moisture trap on that last one is on the air hose. You can probably reverse the hose so the trap is next to the compressor. Or get a different hose.

[RichyX]

yes that what i mean the water trap is on the end of the gun

i do have a compressor i use for car painting, but i carnt have that in the house with the noise it makes

could someone suggest one from ebat for me as im useless at this sort of stuff, preferbly uk aswell if possible that would be great

also i need to know on what paint is best to get, enamel? acrylic etc

ive found some microl sol and micro sel in the uk so will be getting that soon

but what esel, stuff like putty etc, glue, files, snips etc just the general basic stuff i need so i can get started

i really want to get started as its something for me to do to pass the time away

[thegunny]

The moisture trap / regulator is screwed directly to the compressor outlet in the picture. Where else do you think it's going to be

It is not on the end of the gun as you seem to think, it's just the way they've lent the gun against the compressor to take the picture. The air line from the compressor connects to the gun at the mid point of the gun.

[winterdyne]

If you're painting in the house stick with acylics - tamiya are ok and not too smelly, and work very well.

[RichyX]

i can either work in the house or in the garage

garage is just a little dusty though, but supose i could make a littl epaint booth up on a desk

still dont know what compressor or gun to go for though

[RichyX]

still looking

carnt find anything locally either

just need to know what compressor i should be looking at to get and what air brush

also what would tools would i need, i havnt got anything or a clue on what ill need

paints etc, whats what

any help please

thankyou

[winterdyne]

I use a nu-air NAG700 compressor. Sounds like a motorbike, but has a nice big tank. Not really sure where the regulator came from. I use a Revell Profi-plus IDB750 dual action airbrush.

Paint wise, Tamiya is I think best. Use Tamiya thinner, and thin with around a 80-20 paint-thinner for solid work, 40-60 for preshade, then 30-70 for overspraying (blending). You'll be wanting a lot of thinner. Buy the larger bottles, not jars. It's substantially cheaper. They're a bit difficult to get hold of, there was talk of being able to use iso-alcohol instead, but there are apparently issues with that.

You can spray with GW acrylics, but they're not so well formulated for it. I thinned with water and a tiny amount of washing up liquid to break up surface tension. This also worked with vallejo acrylics. I will experiment with this more (given the difficulties with getting tamiya thinner) but to date I haven't dared try on anything expensive.

Tools you'll need:

Compressor WITH TANK, REGULATOR (pressure guage and outlet), MOISTURE TRAP, and 1/8" connector (I think that's the standard airbrush hose). Ensure the regulator can be closed and has a pressure release on the outlet so you can remove your airbrush (and or hose) whilst there's still air in the tank. Otherwise cleaning becomes a bit of an exercise. The guage, you just need to be able to read. Mine's in bars (~15psi/bar). Similarly, a marked regulator (settable in bars) helps. Various techniques call for different pressure settings.

An airbrush - to start go with a single action (dual takes practice). These adjust paint flow by screwing the needle in or out of the tip, as opposed to levering the trigger. Internal mix (inside the body of the brush) is best to avoid spattering. External mix blow air across a small opening to draw paint up into the airstream. They spatter more. Get an airbrush that takes a small tube as a feed for paint - either a removable metal cup or a jar adapter fits into this.

Airbrush hose - do not leave this attached to your compressor. Repairing it when it splits is a pain. Cheap and vinyl, or expensive braided. Your choice. Bear in mind that the braided hoses, although much tougher can still suffer from buckled connectors etc.

Jars. Lots of little jars. Buy them from hobbycraft in the uk for about 60p. Also get jar adaptors (with a little tube!) that fit the top of the jar and have a connector for your airbrush. These are well worthwhile for cleaning, and dealing with mixed and thinned paint. You'll want at least half a dozen.

Gloves. Latex gloves to keep paint off your hands and finger grease off painted surfaces. When you gloss with an airbrush for the first time you'll know why these are on the list.

A Mask. Something to stop you breathing paint particles.

Cotton buds / Q-tips. These are great! Use em to clean your airbrush (dipped in thinners) regularly. A wet q-tip fits neatly in the feed of a standard airbrush, and helps clean it out. Also used for cleaning up oilwashes etc etc.

Cocktail sticks. Superglue to parts you're painting and use as handles. Stick em into a block of polystyrene foam as a quick and easy 'paint tree' to hold up wet parts. Use to mix paint, test consistency etc.

Newspaper and 'spray boxes'. Unless you're using a paint booth you've built, chances are you're trying to paint on a table in your house. I use a shoebox, a document box, and a large house removals box as paint boxes. Those go on the table, and get lined with newspaper (taped on with cheap masking tape). Spray into the box (so it doesn't go all over your table / house so much), and toss in your crap like used sticks and q-tips. When finished, or it's too messy, just fold the paper in and bin it. No mess.

Sandpapers. Yes, you may need to sand your paintwork if you get a nasty run or droplet. I use 1200 grit (DRY) for this, with very very little pressure. Make sure the paint is fully cured before trying to sand it. If it runs, finish the coat if appropriate and sand away the run once it's all dry. Unless working over a preshade, this usually works for me, even then the resultant weird colouration can be disguised with weathering.

Masking tape - some cheap, some tamiya. I've not found any tape that compares to tamiya for actually masking on other paintwork. The cheap tape is for sticking newspaper to stuff mostly.

Soft, long bristle paint brushes - Can also be used to pick up runs, and for removing dust.

Patience - Your most valued tool. Read up on techniques for anything you're wanting to try (google airbrush preshading techniques, google the complete future), and test your hand with *your* airbrush on a bit of paper or old model before frustrating yourself on something costly.

Think that covers it.

Oh yeah, when you get an airbrush, take it apart, and put it back together at least 3 times. You'll want to be able to do that quickly to clean it once it starts spattering when you have a mix you can't quite remember in the cup.

Edited February 17, 2008 by winterdyne

[RichyX]

I use a nu-air NAG700 compressor. Sounds like a motorbike, but has a nice big tank. Not really sure where the regulator came from. I use a Revell Profi-plus IDB750 dual action airbrush.

Paint wise, Tamiya is I think best. Use Tamiya thinner, and thin with around a 80-20 paint-thinner for solid work, 40-60 for preshade, then 30-70 for overspraying (blending). You'll be wanting a lot of thinner. Buy the larger bottles, not jars. It's substantially cheaper. They're a bit difficult to get hold of, there was talk of being able to use iso-alcohol instead, but there are apparently issues with that.

You can spray with GW acrylics, but they're not so well formulated for it. I thinned with water and a tiny amount of washing up liquid to break up surface tension. This also worked with vallejo acrylics. I will experiment with this more (given the difficulties with getting tamiya thinner) but to date I haven't dared try on anything expensive.

Tools you'll need:

Compressor WITH TANK, REGULATOR (pressure guage and outlet), MOISTURE TRAP, and 1/8" connector (I think that's the standard airbrush hose). Ensure the regulator can be closed and has a pressure release on the outlet so you can remove your airbrush (and or hose) whilst there's still air in the tank. Otherwise cleaning becomes a bit of an exercise. The guage, you just need to be able to read. Mine's in bars (~15psi/bar). Similarly, a marked regulator (settable in bars) helps. Various techniques call for different pressure settings.

An airbrush - to start go with a single action (dual takes practice). These adjust paint flow by screwing the needle in or out of the tip, as opposed to levering the trigger. Internal mix (inside the body of the brush) is best to avoid spattering. External mix blow air across a small opening to draw paint up into the airstream. They spatter more. Get an airbrush that takes a small tube as a feed for paint - either a removable metal cup or a jar adapter fits into this.

still unsure on airbrushes lol, have seen one with a metal cup built into it, but not the ones what you mean with a haose for the bottle, have seen the ones with bottles attached under the rush and also gravity fed ones

Airbrush hose - do not leave this attached to your compressor. Repairing it when it splits is a pain. Cheap and vinyl, or expensive braided. Your choice. Bear in mind that the braided hoses, although much tougher can still suffer from buckled connectors etc.

Jars. Lots of little jars. Buy them from hobbycraft in the uk for about 60p. Also get jar adaptors (with a little tube!) that fit the top of the jar and have a connector for your airbrush. These are well worthwhile for cleaning, and dealing with mixed and thinned paint. You'll want at least half a dozen. what do you mean by jars with hoses

Gloves. Latex gloves to keep paint off your hands and finger grease off painted surfaces. When you gloss with an airbrush for the first time you'll know why these are on the list.

A Mask. Something to stop you breathing paint particles.

Cotton buds / Q-tips. These are great! Use em to clean your airbrush (dipped in thinners) regularly. A wet q-tip fits neatly in the feed of a standard airbrush, and helps clean it out. Also used for cleaning up oilwashes etc etc.

Cocktail sticks. Superglue to parts you're painting and use as handles. Stick em into a block of polystyrene foam as a quick and easy 'paint tree' to hold up wet parts. Use to mix paint, test consistency etc.

Newspaper and 'spray boxes'. Unless you're using a paint booth you've built, chances are you're trying to paint on a table in your house. I use a shoebox, a document box, and a large house removals box as paint boxes. Those go on the table, and get lined with newspaper (taped on with cheap masking tape). Spray into the box (so it doesn't go all over your table / house so much), and toss in your crap like used sticks and q-tips. When finished, or it's too messy, just fold the paper in and bin it. No mess.

Sandpapers. Yes, you may need to sand your paintwork if you get a nasty run or droplet. I use 1200 grit (DRY) for this, with very very little pressure. Make sure the paint is fully cured before trying to sand it. If it runs, finish the coat if appropriate and sand away the run once it's all dry. Unless working over a preshade, this usually works for me, even then the resultant weird colouration can be disguised with weathering.

was looking at tamiya sandpaper kits, are these ok, or could i get away with automotive sandpaper as i can get this trade discount same with latex glovesMasking tape - some cheap, some tamiya. I've not found any tape that compares to tamiya for actually masking on other paintwork. The cheap tape is for sticking newspaper to stuff mostly.

Soft, long bristle paint brushes - Can also be used to pick up runs, and for removing dust.

any advice one what exactly to get

Patience - Your most valued tool. Read up on techniques for anything you're wanting to try (google airbrush preshading techniques, google the complete future), and test your hand with *your* airbrush on a bit of paper or old model before frustrating yourself on something costly.

i have a couple of cheap models i want to practice on, plus some scrap dicast cars aswell

Think that covers it.

Oh yeah, when you get an airbrush, take it apart, and put it back together at least 3 times. You'll want to be able to do that quickly to clean it once it starts spattering when you have a mix you can't quite remember in the cup.

mate that is fantastic

heres a link to a compressor im hoping to win on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...A:IT&ih=016

ive made some comments in bold in your quote that im not to sure on

but thats fantastic mate just what i needed to know

[winterdyne]

That compressor looks ok - small and quiet, and at the moment the bidding's pretty low. I think I've seen that model in a local model shop for around £200.

Jar with attachment and removable cup. These fit both my airbrushes.

As I said, you'll be wanting at least half a dozen jars, but you can scrape by with only a couple of the attachments for them - it just makes it easier to clean your brush by having one just for water, and another for paint. Airbrushing is one of those things where having the right kit (and enough of it) can make your life much easier.

As for the brush (bristle brush), as long as the bristles are fairly long (>1/2") and soft, it doesn't matter too much. You need to be drawing the paint smoothly, not flicking or scraping it as it dries. Doesn't need to be sable (but synthetic brushes will be killed by cellulose thinner if you paint with lacquers) and doesn't need a fine point - this is for touching up without leaving brush strokes. It does need to be soft - keep it clean at all times. Unlike a fine-detail brush, where a little left over paint can help keep a stiff point, left over paint on it will simply mess your finish.

Automotive emery papers are fine. 1200 for finishing / sanding coats or drops or runs, 600 for prep work, and 320 for being a butcher. Work wet on bare plastic, dry between coats and have a bigger soft dusting brush (ladies' blusher brushes (CLEAN) are ideal) for removing the dust.

Edited February 19, 2008 by winterdyne

[RichyX]

thankyou

i won the compressor at £82 which i didin think was too bad after reading up on them, as it seems to be one of the best to use, so will see how i get on with it when it arrives

with regards to an airbrush, ive seen this one, i know its cheap like but is is this the sort of thing i need with the jars with pipes in?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Black-Air-Brush-Kit-...1QQcmdZViewItem

[winterdyne]

That's an external mix. Don't like 'em. THERE IS A REASON THEY'RE CHEAP. Not saying any more.

But yeah, those are the sort of jars you want.

This ebay listing looks like a nice one, though I think this at machine mart is the same thing for a couple of quid less.

These are dual action, they take a little more getting used to, but (because) you get much more control. I strongly advise testing your spraying on paper before your model with each pass, and only adjusting the paint flow when you're not aiming at your work.

[magicsp00n]

I agree with all of winterdyne's input. You will be much happier if you get the right equipment now. A good airbrush will last you forever (I've used the same one for about 15 years now). I was a cheapskate and only had a couple of paint jars up until last year. I finally spent a few dollars and got six or seven more, and now I wonder how I ever got by without them.

I also use Tamiya acrylics pretty much exclusively when I'm airbrushing a model. They're good quality, have a nice range of colors, clean up easily, etc. I used rubbing alcohol for awhile but once I tried Tamiya thinner I never use anything else. So many problems in airbrushing come down to the paint mix, it's worth it to use the stuff that works best. A straight 50-50 mix usually does the trick for me.

[RichyX]

thankyou

ive looked at the ones in machine mart and i have to go down there this week to get a new jetwash anyhow, so may aswell pick this one up whilel im down there

i think im going to go for the tamiya paints as these seem to be widely available

but is theer 2 different sorts? acrylic and enamel? or is it just one type

also would i have to thin the paint down like you do in automotive paint?

ive found the big bottles of tamiya thinners so can get these

also looking into is it micro sel and mciro so for the decals?

and another thing im curious about is priming

when i prime once dry to i flat it? for the aint to stick better

also what do i use for panel lining, as ie heard im supose to laquer the model with gloss is it, then panel line using anoil based or enamel paint then laquer again, then apply the decasl then use a flat laquer over the model

carnt you tell im new at this, but ive always asked questions before i take anything big on and i appriciate your help alot

as its always nice to learn

[winterdyne]

Might need you to pick up a couple of bottles of thinner for me! Gonna have another look round first though see if I can't get em somewhere.

I think Tamiya do enamels, but I've never seen them. X-20 is the thinner I think. Yes, you do need to thin it.

Micro sol and set work well, I paid £3.50 a bottle. Can't see em running out, like ever. I've just started experimenting with setting decals on with future (see below) to avoid silvering which would look worse than a slightly proud decal on my mostly dark green gbp. Yet to see how the wash stands up to it.

Primers generally are flat, so there's no intermediate flat coat no, if that's what you're asking.

Panel lining - there's a great article called 'The Complete Future' accreditted to Swanny iirc. I'd probably be slapped if I didn't mention it, but the gist is to use a floor polish called 'Klear' ( 'Future' to the colonials ;-) ) instead of lacquer. Mix it with a little Tamiya flat base (around 8:2 - 7:3 Klear:Flat Base) and you've got your flat coat (and lots of it) for cheap. The oil wash technique - go look at some of wm_cheng's step-by-steps and follow the instructions and it's easy.

[RichyX]

where would i get this klear from

the tamiya thinners i seen on ebay

think it was a shop called model-direct

[winterdyne]

Klear can be got at Wilkinsons, Morrisons, Safeway and Tesco for sure, Sainsburys as well. About £2.40 / 500ml. You'll also need windowlene to clean the airbrush after using it. If using 'flat future' - the klear/flat base mix, blast through with water first to remove the bulk of the stuff, then windowlene, then thinner. Rather than windowlene you can use an ammonia solution (from chemist) watered down, but that stuff really stinks. Oh - it does work wonders on the 1/48 canopy too - makes it look a lot thinner and clearer.

Edit: Although a little goes a long way, I've heard a very nasty rumour about Klear being discontinued by SC Johnson. I'd advise you getting a few bottles in case this is true, especially if you do other modelling as well - it's an excellent all-purpose varnish.

Edit: Guh, Tamiya Thinner, £5 on Amazon. Bargain.

Edited February 21, 2008 by winterdyne

[warpaint22]

where would i get this klear from

the tamiya thinners i seen on ebay

think it was a shop called model-direct

Just a word of warnning about model-direct. I ordered some stuff of them before Christmas and there listing said 100 instock, after about three weeks of nothing showing up I contacted them and was told the had no stock and would I take other items, really p1ssed me off but after a week of asking for my money back I decided just to choose other items. They did arrive but still I don't think it's good to say they have 100 instock and they don't, after all this I checked back and the supposed out of stock items where still listed showing 100 instock. Just be careful with them.

[RichyX]

thankyou

i was going to order the gundam strke freedom off them as they have the best price for it, i will check to see if they have them in stock first now beofr i order

ive got my airbrush, got the machine mart one today, and just waiting on the compressor

will take a trip to supermakrets next week and get some window lene and klear

just read the article the complete future, thankyou for the tip as that is really helpful

1 question though

when i paint my model and i want to seal it i use the klear yes

once dry i can apply the decals and seal it again

then i can panel line(still need to look into this) but what do i use to take off the panel lines spillage without damaging the klear woul it be windowlene?

and then after panel lining i can apply a flat coat to seal everything

have i got that correct?

[winterdyne]

No, to clean up an oil wash use low-odour mineral spirits (available where you get your oil paint). Don't use windowlene (or any ammonia based solvent) on top of klear, as it will remove it.

If you're working on a model that'll be handled a lot, it's probably advisable to put another coat of gloss between your wash and your flat coat.

Incidentally, I've had great success with using the klear to set decals. The technique's described in the complete future. It works.

[RichyX]

ok thats not a problem

i take it is best to use oils for panel lining but really thinned down like water and just dab it into the groove and let it run etc?

have i got it rite im best of coating it then applying decals, caoting it again,then panel lining then using a flat caot to finish the model

what about weathering, i know this is an art all by itself,so when you do weathering is it worth leaving the final coat and do the weathering after the panel line and decal settings,then applying a flat coat to seal t all

id like to know what dry brushing is aswell and washes etc, i read the terms but carnt find much info about it

[winterdyne]

The general sequence is:

Clean and sand

Mask

Prime

Base coat

Preshade

Mask

Livery colours

Gloss

Decals

Gloss (or apply just on top of decals if you're setting with future)

Oil wash

Gloss (optional)

Flat coat

First - before using an oil wash ensure the future is fully cured. If you're using microsol / microset you also need to work on fully cured future. If using future to set you can be a bit more cavalier, but it still works best on a cured surface (as the future you use to set your decal dissolves the stuff under it - if its not fully cured this can happen a bit too fast).

Oil washes can have different consistencies depending on what you're trying to achive. I use a fairly thick wash around 2-3:10 paint / spirit mix. With a fine brush loaded (without a droplet on it - just the paint in the bristles) touch it into the panel line groove. It'll flow along the line like magic. Allow this to dry for an hour or so, then there are a couple of tricks you can use:

First is for clean lines - use a q tip just barely dipped in the spirit (slightly moist, not wet) to gently pick up the oil from outside the line. Move it and turn it simultaneously so clean q-tip is always in contact. Dispose of as soon as dirty.

Second is for flared lines or pre-weathering - get a large, flared, very soft brush (1/2" diameter round) and with no paint at all on it, move it with fast, gentle flicking motions parallel to the lines. Do not stab or scrub with the brush. This has the effect of streaking the wash and can look good for air flow. Because the bristles don't touch the recessed part of the panel line the oil is left there. This is basically the drybrush technique. You can also put some spirit on the brush to really spread the oil around.

Be aware that oils WILL find the edges of decals unless you microsol'd them with extreme prejudice. You should be careful applying your wash if you set with future - the edges can stay proud.

Once done, allow to dry for at least 24 hours before sealing. More is better.

There is another drybrushing technique where you apply paint to your brush then wipe it almost all off. Use the flicking motion described above on the back of your hand. If the paint puts a dusty finish on the texture of your skin, you've got about the right amount of paint left. Gently tickle the raised areas and paint will adhere. It's surprising how little paint you need.

Weathering itself is a massive subject. Some paint 'clean' then dirty up. Some use preshading (early in the painting process). Some use grubby washes at the panel lining stage. Some use grubby washes after everything. Some use dry pastels (effectively a drybrush technique), some crunch em up to make gak (modeller term for fake mud) or washes. Only experimentation wil tell you what you like. Me, I use a grubby oil wash (raw umber / black) and preshading. My GBP is also gonna get a fine spray of 'some light brown / sandy kind of shite'. It's that precise.

Oh yeah - with dry pastels I've heard it said that after the flat coat is the best time to apply them. They dull less, but if you screw up it's bad news. Personally I've not used em so I can't offer first-hand opinions. Most effects can also be done to some extent with oils and a good eye I suppose. Except gak, as that's a texture thing.

Edited February 25, 2008 by winterdyne

[RichyX]

hello again

been ill over the past few months so havnt managed to srt anything, but i have some funds in paypal and im going to get the stuff

i have my compressor, airbrush, a bottle of klear aswell now

so this is my list im hoping to get

tamiya acrylic paint

tamiya thinners

cotton buds/ q tips

cocktail sticks

tamiya masking tape

paint brushes

i forgot to ask about these though

what glue or expoxy do i need to glue the parts together as ive seen so many different types

ive got small screwdrivers, exo knifes,dremel and just bought some needle files aswell

i think its just the glue imstuck on, unless there is going to be anything else im going to need, if there is could you let me know please

thankyou

[RichyX]

anyone please