Macross Aircraft Models

[Chronocidal]

Holy crap, a 1/12 scale VF-1? As cool as that would be, I dunno where I'd put it And yeah, I agree, I want some of those fancy Ace Combat designs done.

Really, part of the "beauty" of these designs is that there actually are no curves. Since they're based on computer models, everything is flat. It limits how good the model can be (especially since on the YF-19 there are several incredibly narrow folds that defy the physical properties of paper), but it also means if things are folded right, there's only one way for the surface contours to go.

I see what you mean about the VF-11 though, I'm not familiar with it either, and looking at it now, it is tough to know where everything goes. The way he built the intakes is definitely a sticky part, since he didn't make the edges flush with the bottom of the wing. That, combined with the way the fuselage goes together actually makes the YF-19 look simple by comparison. The 19 is all modular, with the legs, arms, etc all being individual assemblies. The 11 looks like it has all those parts integrated into one big tube for the main body.

Part of the difference may be the source material, since the YF-19 and YF-21 look like they're based directly off the Hasegawa kits, while the VF-11 is based off of who knows which version.

Once I get the YF-19 done, I might try the VF-11 as well, so I may try and photo the assembly process.

Btw, if you read the development blog on that site, you'll see he's got a few more Macross projects in the works.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Chronocidal

[SchizophrenicMC]

Holy crap, a 1/12 scale VF-1? As cool as that would be, I dunno where I'd put it And yeah, I agree, I want some of those fancy Ace Combat designs done.

Really, part of the "beauty" of these designs is that there actually are no curves. Since they're based on computer models, everything is flat. It limits how good the model can be (especially since on the YF-19 there are several incredibly narrow folds that defy the physical properties of paper), but it also means if things are folded right, there's only one way for the surface contours to go.

I see what you mean about the VF-11 though, I'm not familiar with it either, and looking at it now, it is tough to know where everything goes. The way he built the intakes is definitely a sticky part, since he didn't make the edges flush with the bottom of the wing. That, combined with the way the fuselage goes together actually makes the YF-19 look simple by comparison. The 19 is all modular, with the legs, arms, etc all being individual assemblies. The 11 looks like it has all those parts integrated into one big tube for the main body.

Part of the difference may be the source material, since the YF-19 and YF-21 look like they're based directly off the Hasegawa kits, while the VF-11 is based off of who knows which version.

Once I get the YF-19 done, I might try the VF-11 as well, so I may try and photo the assembly process.

Btw, if you read the development blog on that site, you'll see he's got a few more Macross projects in the works.

Not 1/12. There's a VF-1 Papercraft that I've resized to 12 times its original size. It should be about 1:24 scale, if I'm not mistaken.

Though, if I double that, it'll be 1/12 lol

Moving on, I hate any papercraft made in Pepakura. They always come out with ultra-tiny bits I can't fold right. Unless the model is F*cking huge, like the ones used to make armor. They're so big, the folds are huge as well. Then, you add fiberglass and such and you get armor. Great for cosplay.

No hard feelings, Urashiman. They're great, but I can't stand Pepakura.

[Chronocidal]

*nods in agreement* While they look absolutely cool if done right, some people fail to realize the difference between real life objects and computer polygons, and just start churning out paper versions of computer models without checking to see whether they're possible. Just because it looks cool in the computer doesn't mean it'll even be possible to build in real life.

The YF-19 I'm working on comes very close to being impossible in some areas, mainly from a few tabs the size of a needle, and a couple of folds that make triangles about a millimeter wide, and 2 inches long. These types of shapes work great in a computer, but they're very hard to fold.

[SchizophrenicMC]

*nods in agreement* While they look absolutely cool if done right, some people fail to realize the difference between real life objects and computer polygons, and just start churning out paper versions of computer models without checking to see whether they're possible. Just because it looks cool in the computer doesn't mean it'll even be possible to build in real life.

The YF-19 I'm working on comes very close to being impossible in some areas, mainly from a few tabs the size of a needle, and a couple of folds that make triangles about a millimeter wide, and 2 inches long. These types of shapes work great in a computer, but they're very hard to fold.

Exactly. Now, the SFPapercraft Gallery VF-1S (And the other VF-1s that spawned from it, Angel Birds, M&M, 1D, and such) was designed by hand, has easy curves, and, if you do it right, VG Wings. It's no Hasegawa, but it's still pretty good. I'm currently trying to modify the papercraft to be transformable. Let's just say I'll keep you posted.

I'm definitely at least gonna do fighter-GERWALK. If it all works out, the model will go from being no Hase to being no Yammie

[Chronocidal]

Just finished up the YF-19, the wings/tails/canards were a royal pain. Not only did many of those pieces have tabs too small to fold decently, a couple wanted me to fold the parts into shapes that were physically impossible (especially the canards).

I had to modify a lot of tabs to make the assembly possible, and to be honest.. I know the wings are airfoil shaped, but for something the size of the canards, just a double thick layer of paper would've done much better. I squashed em pretty much flat trying to glue those miniscule tabs anyway.

But anywho, it's done, and it makes a very nice model. I don't have a 1/60 Yammie to compare to, but it's roughly a foot long, and almost the exact same proportions as the Hasegawa aircraft kit. I'm really only disappointed with a couple of bits on it.. mainly the way the main fuselage attaches to the legs. There's a HUGE gap between the shoulders and the lower legs, and no matter how I tried to warp the body, I couldn't close that gap. I'm guessing it's probably a side effect of the thickness of the paper, but there were some serious issues with the underside, so I don't know.

Anyhow, here's some final assembly pics for fun. I'll probably do the VF-11 next, then tackle that monster of a YF-21 he made. The VF-11 should be a walk in the park after this one

[edwin3060]

Just finished up the YF-19, the wings/tails/canards were a royal pain. Not only did many of those pieces have tabs too small to fold decently, a couple wanted me to fold the parts into shapes that were physically impossible (especially the canards).

I had to modify a lot of tabs to make the assembly possible, and to be honest.. I know the wings are airfoil shaped, but for something the size of the canards, just a double thick layer of paper would've done much better. I squashed em pretty much flat trying to glue those miniscule tabs anyway.

But anywho, it's done, and it makes a very nice model. I don't have a 1/60 Yammie to compare to, but it's roughly a foot long, and almost the exact same proportions as the Hasegawa aircraft kit. I'm really only disappointed with a couple of bits on it.. mainly the way the main fuselage attaches to the legs. There's a HUGE gap between the shoulders and the lower legs, and no matter how I tried to warp the body, I couldn't close that gap. I'm guessing it's probably a side effect of the thickness of the paper, but there were some serious issues with the underside, so I don't know.

Anyhow, here's some final assembly pics for fun. I'll probably do the VF-11 next, then tackle that monster of a YF-21 he made. The VF-11 should be a walk in the park after this one

That's just AMAZING. Kudos to you!

[Urashiman]

It is always nice to see people building my models and I accept your critic. The YF-19 and YF-21 are Hasegawa based. The VF-11 is Bandai/internet pictures based. If you really want to build the VF-11 just don't!

The old one on my website is really weird. I fixed the parts (like the jet-intakes) that always make problems to most of the people. So wait till I release the new revision. Don't talk bad about Paperkura ... it is just a CAD tool for easy paperkcraft. I use it because it is fast and I need to get things done fast, because I'm a busy man.

[SchizophrenicMC]

It is always nice to see people building my models and I accept your critic. The YF-19 and YF-21 are Hasegawa based. The VF-11 is Bandai/internet pictures based. If you really want to build the VF-11 just don't!

The old one on my website is really weird. I fixed the parts (like the jet-intakes) that always make problems to most of the people. So wait till I release the new revision. Don't talk bad about Paperkura ... it is just a CAD tool for easy paperkcraft. I use it because it is fast and I need to get things done fast, because I'm a busy man.

Pepakura is a shortcut way of papercraft design. It's cheating. Also, it's not that good at what it's supposed to do.

I can appreciate that you're a busy man. But, if you're gonna make papercraft, especially through Pepakura, then go through several drafts until you get all the kinks worked out. Pep is famous for making stupidly small tabs.

TBH, Pep would be great for, say, a PC papercraft or a nerf gun or something, but not for a plane. Look at the SFGallery VF-1 I keep bringing up. It was made without Pep, as were all the rest on that website, and they all own the hell out of a lot of pep papercrafts I've seen.

To each his own, I guess.

Any news on the VF-17 or 25, Urashiman?

Wow, Chrono, good work. I daresay I will never make that model, out of its sheer complexity, yet you've done a superb job. Many kudos to you, sir.

[badboy00z]

Just finished up the YF-19, the wings/tails/canards were a royal pain. Not only did many of those pieces have tabs too small to fold decently, a couple wanted me to fold the parts into shapes that were physically impossible (especially the canards).

I had to modify a lot of tabs to make the assembly possible, and to be honest.. I know the wings are airfoil shaped, but for something the size of the canards, just a double thick layer of paper would've done much better. I squashed em pretty much flat trying to glue those miniscule tabs anyway.

But anywho, it's done, and it makes a very nice model. I don't have a 1/60 Yammie to compare to, but it's roughly a foot long, and almost the exact same proportions as the Hasegawa aircraft kit. I'm really only disappointed with a couple of bits on it.. mainly the way the main fuselage attaches to the legs. There's a HUGE gap between the shoulders and the lower legs, and no matter how I tried to warp the body, I couldn't close that gap. I'm guessing it's probably a side effect of the thickness of the paper, but there were some serious issues with the underside, so I don't know.

Anyhow, here's some final assembly pics for fun. I'll probably do the VF-11 next, then tackle that monster of a YF-21 he made. The VF-11 should be a walk in the park after this one

Holy crap that's awesome. I want one. Lol.

[Urashiman]

Pepakura is a shortcut way of papercraft design. It's cheating. Also, it's not that good at what it's supposed to do.

I can appreciate that you're a busy man. But, if you're gonna make papercraft, especially through Pepakura, then go through several drafts until you get all the kinks worked out. Pep is famous for making stupidly small tabs.

TBH, Pep would be great for, say, a PC papercraft or a nerf gun or something, but not for a plane. Look at the SFGallery VF-1 I keep bringing up. It was made without Pep, as were all the rest on that website, and they all own the hell out of a lot of pep papercrafts I've seen.

To each his own, I guess.

Any news on the VF-17 or 25, Urashiman?

Wow, Chrono, good work. I daresay I will never make that model, out of its sheer complexity, yet you've done a superb job. Many kudos to you, sir.

I never had problems with the small tabs (even if I'm proud owner of ridiculously large hands and fingers like sausage with no feelings in the fingertips because of a little thing I didn't think through perfectly on the coldest day in berlin). I know about "manual" papercrafting. I did this when I was a young boy and had too much time(made a DeLorean on my own and some anime stuff). I know about that VF-1, already have build it and it burned good in the end (stuffed rocketengines into the thing and forgot about the explosives for the parachute)

the VF-17D is all done, just needs some instructions. the VF-25 needs texturing before developing. Still need to do instructions for the new VF-9/Vf-11 and the VF-14.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I never had problems with the small tabs (even if I'm proud owner of ridiculously large hands and fingers like sausage with no feelings in the fingertips because of a little thing I didn't think through perfectly on the coldest day in berlin). I know about "manual" papercrafting. I did this when I was a young boy and had too much time(made a DeLorean on my own and some anime stuff). I know about that VF-1, already have build it and it burned good in the end (stuffed rocketengines into the thing and forgot about the explosives for the parachute)

the VF-17D is all done, just needs some instructions. the VF-25 needs texturing before developing. Still need to do instructions for the new VF-9/Vf-11 and the VF-14.

So... What you're saying is you freezer-burned the feeling out of your fingertips? I physically burned them out. Between hot glue, solder, hot electrical wiring, hot pans, hot water, and generally anything to do with fire, I've nearly lost all feeling in my fingertips.

Moving on, I just prefer "mannies", simply because they often rock.

Hell, by manual, I mean non-pepakura. Even Computer-aided can be good. It's just Pep sucks at that...

I wanna do a line of (human) weapons from the Halo universe. I've played it so much, the designs in 3D of almost all of them are stuck in my brain. I'm gonna do them manually, and I mean full-on, drawn-first, etcetera manually. I have time and I don't have good software.

Keep up the good work, Shiman. I can't wait to see that 17D.

[Chronocidal]

I do think the Pepakura models could be done well, with a little revision. The biggest problems are the way it breaks down parts, and the way it makes the tabs.

Best example of how Pepakura can foul up is the piece meant to be the head laser on the YF-19. I hope you don't mind, but here's a screenshot of that particular part.

First problem is, this is the worst possible way to make a box of those proportions. It'd make much more sense to have the folds on the long edges, instead of the tiny ends of the laser.

Second problem, the tabs are over twice as big as the panel they need to glue to. Without massive extra folds, that structure will not work. I had this issue quite frequently, and I lost track of how many tabs I had to cut down to near nothing before they fit where they needed to go.

Also, one thing I changed quite a bit was the placement of the tabs. The pieces weren't mirrored across the aircraft, and the tabs would be on the top of one wing, and the bottom of the other. It wound up warping the wings pretty bad on my first try.

If it's not a problem I may try and update the YF-19 a bit, or at least come up with a list of possible changes, just to solve some of the structural issues, and make it a little more possible to fold. Some of the smaller panels really need to be relocated to other parts before this thing will become very buildable.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Chronocidal

[SchizophrenicMC]

I do think the Pepakura models could be done well, with a little revision. The biggest problems are the way it breaks down parts, and the way it makes the tabs.

Best example of how Pepakura can foul up is the piece meant to be the head laser on the YF-19. I hope you don't mind, but here's a screenshot of that particular part.

First problem is, this is the worst possible way to make a box of those proportions. It'd make much more sense to have the folds on the long edges, instead of the tiny ends of the laser.

Second problem, the tabs are over twice as big as the panel they need to glue to. Without massive extra folds, that structure will not work. I had this issue quite frequently, and I lost track of how many tabs I had to cut down to near nothing before they fit where they needed to go.

Also, one thing I changed quite a bit was the placement of the tabs. The pieces weren't mirrored across the aircraft, and the tabs would be on the top of one wing, and the bottom of the other. It wound up warping the wings pretty bad on my first try.

If it's not a problem I may try and update the YF-19 a bit, or at least come up with a list of possible changes, just to solve some of the structural issues, and make it a little more possible to fold. Some of the smaller panels really need to be relocated to other parts before this thing will become very buildable.

Exactly my point. To date, I have never completed a papercraft made in pep. They just come out with the STUPIDEST folds and such.

No offense goes to the one who makes the model, but to the program he uses.

It's lame.

[Chronocidal]

Well, for what it does, the program appears to be pretty useful, laying out models flat and all. The problem is how it chooses to break things up. With a little editing, the YF-19 could be a perfect model. The majority of it is just fine, especially the nose structure, and legs, which worked pretty flawlessly. In reality, I just ignored a lot of the smaller tabs, and cut them off if there was enough support around them from larger tabs.

The biggest issues I had were with the wings and tails. They worked okay in the end, but some parts had several folds that just can't be made with a single piece. It's like there were supposed to be bits cut out to reshape the part into a curve, but the cutouts didn't happen. The main body had some problems too, but I think that's my fault for not folding something the right direction. The underside is such a complex mess of folds, it wouldn't surprise me if I skipped some step entirely.

I'd actually like to see what kind of interface Pep has, just to see if it's possible to pick where seams are made, and maybe resize the tabs it makes.

[Urashiman]

I never use the auto-unfold for pepakura, because the autounfold doesn't work good. I did that part like this on purpose, I must have been drunk while doing this, but I did it on purpose, it has nothing to do with pepakura. There is a function in pepakura to make flaps smaller but I don't have the time to bother about that. If some flaps are too big I just cut them smaller when building the model. everthing u said so far isn't a problem within pepakura, it is a problem wth my structural papermodel design. You people never seemed to really work with pepakura If I read stuff like that.

Well, for what it does, the program appears to be pretty useful, laying out models flat and all. The problem is how it chooses to break things up.

I do think the Pepakura models could be done well, with a little revision. The biggest problems are the way it breaks down parts, and the way it makes the tabs.

Best example of how Pepakura can foul up is the piece meant to be the head laser on the YF-19. I hope you don't mind, but here's a screenshot of that particular part.

No designer with some sanity in it's head uses Auto-Unfold. I'll just show some pictures.

This is what happens if you use the Auto-Unfold in Pepakura. I RECOMMEND NOT TO USE AUTO-UNFOLD!

With a little work and "precutting" it will look like this. (no auto-unfold)

I still need to fix some flaps manually here but it looks better then auto-unfold.

Things like this:

are possible. I can change the size of the flaps but I find it ridiculous to agitate about something like this because u could just use your scissors to cut that flap. I can't think what came over me with this part, but I seemed to have a reason in the moment I developed the papercraft. If there are problems with the model they are my fault, and not the tools fault. It is like saying:"your 3D model looks like poo because u should use 3DSmax instead of blender". You can get the same results from both tools if you use them properly. Same with pepakura. I'm always under deadline pressure and I may miss some critical sections while developing. When I testbuilded that thing I didn't have any problems with it. But other ones seemed to have really (in my eyes "weird") proplems with them. Getting rid of problems like this will take years if I don't get some response from people that build the models. Luckily you people seemed to have the guts to tell me whats wrong with my templates. I'll note down what issues you have with my stuff and I even fixed the VF-11 by now.

[SchizophrenicMC]

You know what is said here

If you're not auto-unfolding, then, I must say, it is your fault.

This is what I always say: A good papercrafter must focus on only one corner at a time. A good designer must make it so the papercrafter can.

Now, this last part applies to you, Shiman. If you're not willing to put in the effort to make the first part possible (As much as IS possible. I don't expect that to always have to happen.), you're not doing your part.

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against you, and your models are AMAZING when complete. However, it's the path from point A to point B that sucks.

Look at the armor models from 405th.com. They're great for the blocky armor they make, which, might I add, is quite large. They're made in Pepakura. It's pretty awesome. Your models are comparatively small and complex.

Well, if you wanna use Pep, go ahead. I can't think of many 3D to papercraft programs. Manual is hard and time-consuming.

However, please, revise some of the stuff. A tab should NEVER be bigger than the surface to which it is glued.

With all due respect,

Schizo

[Urashiman]

I just don't feel like argueing because of tabs, because I just don't care about the size of tabs, and if I don't care about something, I don't talk about it.

I'll see what I can do with the future models and what I can do to the already released models, but don't expect miracles from me.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I just don't feel like argueing because of tabs, because I just don't care about the size of tabs, and if I don't care about something, I don't talk about it.

I'll see what I can do with the future models and what I can do to the already released models, but don't expect miracles from me.

Hey, I just expect a model that works.

I agree, though. Let's not argue about this.

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics; Even if you win, you're still retarded.

[anime52k8]

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics; Even if you win, you're still retarded.

wow... just... wow.

[SchizophrenicMC]

wow... just... wow.

The only truer words:

Ass is great and all, and boobs are awesome, but to be honest, pussy owns 'em both, any day.

At least, in my opinion.

[Hikuro]

just thinking about starting up again. I've been doing a paper mockup of a ODST helmet which is coming out awesome. If it's anything like that, I think doing these models will become a breeze now.

[SchizophrenicMC]

... You read my mind, Hikuro.

I'm into my third replica; I've done RalPartha's, Rundown's, and I'm working on the medium-def versionof the latter. Tryin' to make a full set for various conventions.

Speaking of, I take back what I said about Pepakura. They've fixed most of it with Pep Designer 3.

By the by, have you checked out 405th.com, Hik?

[MILKAUTICO]

Any update for VA-3 papercraft?