Macross/Yamato Collectors are Sadomasochists

[misterryno]

Could it be that this gent thinks that this is a 1/48???

Just got my 1/48 YF-19 from HK (Anniversary Edition).

Seriously mate....We have ALL had problems at one time or another. Don't go freakin out and all that good stuff. And to you Energon....I am sure the guys are just messin with him. I am essentially a "newb" myself since I have been a member only since Sept. But if I have an issue. I look for an answer instead of "going off". Good luck too ya kid....I'm sure you'll figure your 1/60 YF-19 out just fine.

[GobotFool]

I have noticed that in a "newby" has serious complaints it isnt taken serious.....If a vet or a Yamato kissass complains, it ok. You guys act like Yamato is great and every other company is lacking and you justify Yamatos poor QC. I dont understand.

Anyone who has owned a YF-19 toy is aware of this minor issue, and its not even an issue, its a matter of figuring out how to correctly lock a part into place. If he was complaining about the poor spelling, or the two right wing hinges, or a broken shoulder, or a fragile back pack hing, or many of the other perfectly legitimate complaints about previous macross toys from yamato, that's fine. I'd be grabbing a pitch fork and storming yamato's gates right along side him. (I'm still pretty bitter over my Garland)

This guy is complaining because he can't figure out how to properly lock his 19's nose cone into place, and he;s blaming it on the toy and Graham. This would be like someone signing onto a board and saying, "OMG alt grimlocks a POS, I can't figure out how to transform him, you people who worship alternators, you're all liars, you must be on Hasblows payrole!". And actually I'd be more forgiving with alt grimlock considering he is impossible to transform, but thats not a problem with the toys quality, it's a problem with an overly complex transformation mechanism. And lets be honest, while the 19's nose cone might require a little fiddling, its not a particularly complex part of the toy. I am sorry if for some reason this 19 really does have a dud nose cone, but considering I, like many other board members here have delt with this same issue, which is just a matter of figuring out how to get the mechanism to lock properly, I find it hard to attribute this complaint as a flaw with the toy. It seems like more an issue of user error.

The 19's 1st release had its problems, bad landing gear, shoulder gaps, and the misaligned gunpod. I complained and cursed yamato, and kicked myself for not grabing the 2nd release. I've been a long time toy collector, I've had my share of duds, alot of them have come from yamato. Non of us worship yamato. We constantly drag the company over the coals for everything they do wrong. The problem is Yamato's the only game in town for macross toys, so this poses a problem for the Macross fan. If bandai started making a nicely detailed, perfect transformation macross line that encompased every series, I'd gladly jump ship and get my Nacross fix from them. (but they are still in love with gundam, dear lord, how many gundam repaints do we need!?!) Still, for the people who have big problems with their Yamato Macross toys, a broken part, or flawed piece, there is one primary villian here. Toynami. If Toynami didn't put an embargo on all non Toynami Macross products you could very easily get, for free, replacement parts for your busted/flawed yamato macross toys through YamatotoysUSA.com. Just like the Garland's shoulder.

Edited February 1, 2008 by GobotFool

[VFTF1]

Ok - here's my 7 cents:

1) Guys - let's be clear about something here - Yamato's Macross 1/48s and 1/60s are not really toys. They are adult collectables.

This distinction is not merely semantic, nor necessary for legal reasons, but actually has a very practical and plain spoken idea behind it: these things are not meant to be "toyed" with; they are not meant to transform quickly, easily, not meant to be put on the living room floor and engaged in combat with one another , not meant to be used in the same way that you can "toy" with a GI Joe or even a regular-series Transformer. This is not to say that we can't have any FUN with them... But think about it - modelers handle their models a bit differently than if they were ready built toys, no? If you want intricate detail then you will have to live with the fact that certain parts will be small, fragile, sharp, inconvenient. Sadly, you must also live with the fact that sometimes these things will actually be flawed - albeit NONE of my Macross toys EVER broke - except for my first Ivanov (slight crack on the wing hinge) caused TOTALLY BY MY USING EXCESS FORCE despite knowing better. Be delicate, be careful, and don't expect a 1/48 VF to handle like your Transformers Cybertron Nightscream Supreme - it won't.

2) Takara Masterpiece are generally higher quality because the design aesthetic of the Transformers G1 lends itself to higher quality due to the fact that it is easier to create a chunky robot. MP Optimus Prime is not really that teribbly difficult to concieve of; particularly if you think about how utterly complex something like a VF-1 perfect transformation is. The complexity of the VF1 results wholly from Yamato's decission to treat the DYRL film as cannon - and to accept that since those VF legs seem to hand off its' nose somehow and then magically return to place in fighter mode... there must be a way to achieve this. Granted - the VF-0 1/60 does this better than the 1/48s, and I am happy to hear that the 1/60s VFs will go with the VF-0 method of transformation - but it is much harder to achieve this type of transformation than it is to have the bulky back of a truck transform into bulky legs. MP Megatron, I remind everyone, is no less fragile than an SV-51 - I mean - do you really swing your Megatron's legs around in a carefree sort of way? When you transform your MP Megatron - do you think - man - this is a breeze! My blind uncle could do it...? As for the MP Seeker mould - I will agree that it is generally a very fine and sturdy configuration - but then again... think about who designed it?

3) I will be very happy if Bandai makes a qualify Macross F line. I will not expect it to be perfect and flaw free. I will also continue to purchace Macross figures from Yamato if they continue doing the extraordinary job they've been doing.

There.

VFTF1

[eugimon]

Im talking about the way you guys are basically calling him an idiot because he might have it transformed wrong. Eugimon, you seem to be the board apeface and smartass and Im sure everybody just loves you on here but you need to relax with the smartassery and wannab wittyness. You quote my post but throw in an answer to his, are you once again waiting for me to have replies to jump on me? I really feel sorry for you if you really do “live for this kind of stuff” because it’s a TOY board.

what the hell are you talking about? Are you still mad that I called you on your missunderstanding of sumdumgai's post? Jeebus kid, let it go. You didn't understand the post, and you were still wrong about the binaltechs. If you think I'm picking on you, well, maybe it's because you're wrong. But just for the sake of arguement, let's examine your post and my response:

I have noticed that in a "newby" has serious complaints it isnt taken serious.....If a vet or a Yamato kissass complains, it ok. You guys act like Yamato is great and every other company is lacking and you justify Yamatos poor QC. I dont understand.

Where's the poor QC here? This guy, who's been a registered member for over a year, couldn't figure out how to transform his valk, so he post a hate filled rant.

BTW, there is a civil thread on known yf-19 QC and design issues. And if you had any idea of what you were talking about, you would know that some of us have been very vocal in expressing our displeasure over *actual* yamato QC/design issues.

What part of that response was an "answer" to anyone other than you? I refutted your claim that this was a QC issue. I refutted your claim that we were picking on a noob and I refutted your claim that we only listen to vets or "yamato kissass complains".

This isn't a QC issue, this is a mistransformation.

The guy in question has been a registered member for over 1 year.

Several of us, including me, have been very vocal over yamato's QC/Design decisions. My avatar pic was a shot of a shattered shoulder on my VF-0 for half a year.

And there have been plenty of threads, started by noobs about yamato issues where we've tripped over ourselves posting pictures and giving advice on how to resolve the issue.

For example: http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=24554

But think about it, how likely is it that people will be friendly and helpful when the post is nothing more than a hate filled rant? If l logged on to tfw2005 as "leader 1" or "gobotfan" and posted an unfair and scathing rant about my MP Convoy (which by the way came with chrome paint dripped all over the top of the cab and ankle joints so loose it can barely stand up right, and the right chest door was bent, so that it won't lock in place in bot mode) and then proceeded to insult a well respected member of that board... well, what do you think the response would be?

And pal, if you're going to come here to lecture us on net etiquette, you can start by looking in the mirror.

Edited February 1, 2008 by eugimon

[energon]

what the hell are you talking about? Are you still mad that I called you on your missunderstanding of sumdumgai's post? Jeebus kid, let it go. You didn't understand the post, and you were still wrong about the binaltechs. If you think I'm picking on you, well, maybe it's because you're wrong. But just for the sake of arguement, let's examine your post and my response:

What part of that response was an "answer" to anyone other than you? I refutted your claim that this was a QC issue. I refutted your claim that we were picking on a noob and I refutted your claim that we only listen to vets or "yamato kissass complains".

This isn't a QC issue, this is a mistransformation.

The guy in question has been a registered member for over 1 year.

Several of us, including me, have been very vocal over yamato's QC/Design decisions. My avatar pic was a shot of a shattered shoulder on my VF-0 for half a year.

And there have been plenty of threads, started by noobs about yamato issues where we've tripped over ourselves posting pictures and giving advice on how to resolve the issue.

For example: http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=24554

But think about it, how likely is it that people will be friendly and helpful when the post is nothing more than a hate filled rant? If l logged on to tfw2005 as "leader 1" or "gobotfan" and posted an unfair and scathing rant about my MP Convoy (which by the way came with chrome paint dripped all over the top of the cab and ankle joints so loose it can barely stand up right, and the right chest door was bent, so that it won't lock in place in bot mode) and then proceeded to insult a well respected member of that board... well, what do you think the response would be?

And pal, if you're going to come here to lecture us on net etiquette, you can start by looking in the mirror.

You did all this just for me, totally avoiding the subject. Get a Life.....Oh wait, Im sure your ego will not let you drop this so I eagerly await your next long drawn out ramblings.

[GobotFool]

and then proceeded to insult a well respected member of that board... well, what do you think the response would be?

Not just a well respected member, it was the owner of the board this dude attacked. You really can't expect people to feel all warm and fuzzy when a newbee, who is not established in the community, starts throwing a temper tantrum in town square.

[energon]

Anyone who has owned a YF-19 toy is aware of this minor issue, and its not even an issue, its a matter of figuring out how to correctly lock a part into place. If he was complaining about the poor spelling, or the two right wing hinges, or a broken shoulder, or a fragile back pack hing, or many of the other perfectly legitimate complaints about previous macross toys from yamato, that's fine. I'd be grabbing a pitch fork and storming yamato's gates right along side him. (I'm still pretty bitter over my Garland)

This guy is complaining because he can't figure out how to properly lock his 19's nose cone into place, and he;s blaming it on the toy and Graham. This would be like someone signing onto a board and saying, "OMG alt grimlocks a POS, I can't figure out how to transform him, you people who worship alternators, you're all liars, you must be on Hasblows payrole!". And actually I'd be more forgiving with alt grimlock considering he is impossible to transform, but thats not a problem with the toys quality, it's a problem with an overly complex transformation mechanism. And lets be honest, while the 19's nose cone might require a little fiddling, its not a particularly complex part of the toy. I am sorry if for some reason this 19 really does have a dud nose cone, but considering I, like many other board members here have delt with this same issue, which is just a matter of figuring out how to get the mechanism to lock properly, I find it hard to attribute this complaint as a flaw with the toy. It seems like more an issue of user error.

The 19's 1st release had its problems, bad landing gear, shoulder gaps, and the misaligned gunpod. I complained and cursed yamato, and kicked myself for not grabing the 2nd release. I've been a long time toy collector, I've had my share of duds, alot of them have come from yamato. Non of us worship yamato. We constantly drag the company over the coals for everything they do wrong. The problem is Yamato's the only game in town for macross toys, so this poses a problem for the Macross fan. If bandai started making a nicely detailed, perfect transformation macross line that encompased every series, I'd gladly jump ship and get my Nacross fix from them. (but they are still in love with gundam, dear lord, how many gundam repaints do we need!?!) Still, for the people who have big problems with their Yamato Macross toys, a broken part, or flawed piece, there is one primary villian here. Toynami. If Toynami didn't put an embargo on all non Toynami Macross products you could very easily get, for free, replacement parts for your busted/flawed yamato macross toys through YamatotoysUSA.com. Just like the Garland's shoulder.

If people respected others opinion and replied like you, this would be a lot better place but everybody wants to be an internet smartass.

[Dante74]

If people respected others opinion and replied like you, this would be a lot better place but everybody wants to be an internet smartass.

So that's why you just posted this?

You did all this just for me, totally avoiding the subject. Get a Life.....Oh wait, Im sure your ego will not let you drop this so I eagerly await your next long drawn out ramblings.

[GobotFool]

Are certain people still fighting? Man, if people get this pissed off over toys, what chance is there for peace in the middle east? I think some people need girlfriends.

[VFTF1]

Oh brother

I just read Newbie's first thread....and have to add yet more pennies to my previous 7 cents:

1) The line about how other companies who make more "needed" things would go out of business if they had such "bad" QC is just bad economics. "Need" is a completely subjective assesment and it is simply not true that Yamato magically gets a brake for producing crappy products because - oh -they're not "needed." How does that work? Nobody would buy expensive products that constantly failed to meet expectations from a company simply because they weren't "real necessities." Obviously - since Yamato is still in business and churning out stuff - then clearly it is satisfying customers enough to remain so...

2) I would venture to say that Yamato's products are not made for impatient people. I have owned my YF-19 for TWO YEARS and only LAST MONTH discovered the following:

a) That under the shoulder supports there are those small armor pieces that come out

b) That you can flip out a a vent-shaft t cover the cock-pit sticking out on its' back

c) That in order to achieve full mobility of the head, you need to shove the panel up behind the helment - and that it is a delicate task to get it back out

Am I stupid?

Maybe.

But I sure as heck am NOT in a rush to break my 200 USD Valkyrie.

If Yamato's products are so frustrating, buy Toynami's Masterpieces and go back to watching Robotech - they even speak english there so you don't have to bother trying to read the subtitles, let alone understand the complex plot

Oh - sorry...I'm being naughty.

The point here is:

Yamato Valkyrie are meant for people who are patient and who actually apreciate having a product that can surprise you pleasantly a long time into the future, rather than a toy whose magic wears off in a week.

VFTF1

[misterryno]

You did all this just for me, totally avoiding the subject. Get a Life.....Oh wait, Im sure your ego will not let you drop this so I eagerly await your next long drawn out ramblings.

Jeeeezzzz man.....Even I had thought eugimon was an a$$ previously, but then realized that I was overreacting and I was being a big vag for not being able to take the criticism (spelling). But you can't just sit here and tell the dude to get a life. Be a man and take the hit. It happens. If your gonna sit here and defend someone that apparently will not take the time to figure out what is wrong and instead just jumps all over the oppurtunity to get all pissy and freak out then you need to get a life.

You may not need it but I got your back eugimon.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Oooooooookay. Everybody take a deep breath and chill out. We can all address an issue and offer insight without the pointed words. I don't want to have to come back in here... and yes I did just channel my mother for a second there.

[misterryno]

Oooooooookay. Everybody take a deep breath and chill out. We can all address an issue and offer insight without the pointed words. I don't want to have to come back in here... and yes I did just channel my mother for a second there.

Geeeezzzzz Mom.....do we have to

No....reallly....I'll be nice to my sister now

[Twoducks]

[misterryno]

OMG......I'm crying here at work cause I'm laughing so hard.....

[nugundamII]

Its funny that I mention a few truths about the qc issues with Yamatos stuff and you all go on a rant and direct misguided critisims against me.

first off- i dont remeber how many of you here have completed about the qc issues here which has lead to the common idea to buy yamatos

second and third releases of their products.

I didnt insult Graham but stated the obvious.He gets his information from source and either he has a friend that works for the company

, works as a general marketer and passes info along publicly or indirectly via this message board and all I know if that information

seems to flow in one direction. Why arnt our concerns being passed along

For starters> I have included some pictures of my own collection, you should be able to tell I am NO amatuer collector

and I would first investigate any flaws and rule out user error before criticizing the product. I figured out the problem is with the post that

is attached to the canopy. IT is too long and therefore I cannot snap in the nose cone into the notch between the canopy and nosecone.

I can fix this by using an xacto knife and trimming that post but I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO THIS. The excuse of that I got a dud is irrelevant

because that would only mean that all the yamato products I have are duds and just proves my case in point.

and just because this is geared to adult collectors doesnt mean this thing has to be as delicate as paper marche.

By the second release there SHOULD BE NO DUDS PERIOD! and especially on an anniversary item!

THe price point does not match the quality and you certainly don't get what you paid for.

Since you guys have challenged me on the distinction between yamato and other companies I shall elaborate

Bandai SOC line is geared towards adult collectors with a few factors in designing their line

1. make them as close as replicas as possible

2. posability of points of articulation

3 quality of material used metal and plastic in most cases

4 Presentation in terms of boxing and gimmicks ie transformation.

for the most part they score pretty high for me. WHY because they seem to meet all of these factors without compromising

quality and price.

Case in point. I have Dancougar, Aqaurion-Designed by Kawamori, Gunbuster and Evangelion. Aside from the keeling over of Aquarion because the toy

contains more than 70% diecast, have very minor QC flaws which I dont have to fight with to transform or use excess force or modify, and their pricing is much

lower for what you get compared to Junkmato

Transformers MP line

STarscream=also designed by kawamori, also made of plastic and incorporates a sophisticated transformation, NO FLAWS. True to the anime version

and also spot on the F14 Eagle, which I also dont have to break things to get them to fit the right way, and much lower priced.

Same goes for MP megatron which the former and latter are not BULKY or BLOCKY so that excuse doesnt stick!!!

The fact that both these companies have larger operating budgets and hence better products also doesn't wash over well with me.

These pieces are also produced in limited quantities and are loss generators IE ALTERNATORS/Binaltech were canceled because revenues were low!

The only difference in this case is that BANDAI and TAKTOMY have other lines which are profit generators and can adsorb loss but the fact they make them means that they know

there is a demand for them by collectors

If Crapmato wants to compete and grow they have start making better products maybe they can cut the size of the packaging which is a huge savings considering the plastic and imaging involved

I dont need a box the size of a house.

Anyway

thanks for the NO support!I wasted my time here typing this!!!

[misterryno]

nugundamII,

So....my guess is that you did not see this....

Oooooooookay. Everybody take a deep breath and chill out. We can all address an issue and offer insight without the pointed words. I don't want to have to come back in here... and yes I did just channel my mother for a second there.

So if we can't say anything....either can you

[vlenhoff]

Dude, I'm soooo jelous of your collection! OMG! That Eureka is huge... Does it transform? WOW!

BTW, sorry to hear 'bout your VF-19...

[Wicked Ace]

Anyway

thanks for the NO support!I wasted my time here typing this!!!

I thought I was being helpful.

[misterryno]

I thought I was being helpful.

I thought you were as well....I guess he just wanted to complain....anyways....if I had a YF-19 I would feel helped

[nugundamII]

I thought I was being helpful.

No you were and I was not directy at you just the ones that started this whole ganging up on me

Edited February 1, 2008 by nugundamII

[nugundamII]

Dude, I'm soooo jelous of your collection! OMG! That Eureka is huge... Does it transform? WOW!

BTW, sorry to hear 'bout your VF-19...

Yes it does

Would you like to see a pic?

[nugundamII]

nugundamII,

So....my guess is that you did not see this....

So if we can't say anything....either can you

yes I did

Correction!!!! my comments were not directed to those that understood what I was saying but those that took offense that I criticized Crapmato

[dizman]

You kids and your collectible toys, always fighting! The way I lock the nose of the YF-19 is pushing down the black part on the front half, putting the front nose flush against the canopy and pushing the thingie that pushes the black peice back up. Voila (did I spell that right) your YF-19 is transformed and ready to not be bitched about.

[nugundamII]

You kids and your collectible toys, always fighting! The way I lock the nose of the YF-19 is pushing down the black part on the front half, putting the front nose flush against the canopy and pushing the thingie that pushes the black peice back up. Voila (did I spell that right) your YF-19 is transformed and ready to not be bitched about.

Thank you but i have already done this no luck

As you can see by the picture I can hold the nose and bottom button and it fits with no cap in the seem but the grey post on the class canopy is too long and interferes from doing this

[JsARCLIGHT]

This is a reminder to keep things civil. People are free to complain and free to bash a product or a company but NOT other members, so please keep that in mind when crafting your replies. nugundamII is within his rights to complain so long as his complaint has merit and does not insult other members. A such everyone else should follow that end as well. The cardinal rule of debate is to debate the issue and not the person making the counterpoint, and some uncivil barbs and baiting are coming close to the line.

I really do not want to babysit this thread today as I'm quite busy at the office, so consider this to be my last gentle nudge.

[Wicked Ace]

Thank you but i have already done this no luck

As you can see by the picture I can hold the nose and bottom button and it fits with no cap in the seem but the grey post on the class canopy is too long and interferes from doing this

The canopy (and post) must be in for the nose to stay up.

[nugundamII]

More pics and toy storage

[eugimon]

this is all the more amusing when I imagine Brian's voice when reading JsArclight's posts.

[nugundamII]

The canopy (and post) must be in for the nose to stay up.

I know just showing my picture so people are on board with me

Edited February 1, 2008 by nugundamII

[Wicked Ace]

I figured out the problem is with the post that

is attached to the canopy. IT is too long and therefore I cannot snap in the nose cone into the notch between the canopy and nosecone.

I can fix this by using an xacto knife and trimming that post

Is this the part you are referring to?

[nugundamII]

Is this the part you are referring to?

yup

the post is too long which keeps jamming the nose cone

[misterryno]

nugundamII,

with all this said and done. my personal apologies to you. just don't be so quick to jump on others when they are throwing out a little criticism. it's all fun and games till someone loses an eye.

[Spiff]

Nice collection!

I don't own a yamato 1/60 vf-19, don't like the vf, if I did I would not go cutting anything on it. But rather set it aside till I was calmed down or spend more time trying to figure it out in conjunction to asking questions on the board. Many have tried to tell you so far that you are not understanding the transformation. Set it down, go have a holiday come back and look at it again!! I have yet to do any cutting on any of my Yamatos, and I have alot more of them than you do.. Have I had issues with some, sure but I would never post something like you have. You really should go back and edit your first post!

You are a new member. You started a post flaming Graham. Yes I read it as a flame and I think a lot of other members here are getting the same impression. If you would have taken the time to research anything you would discover that Graham is a owner of this UN-official FAN site. Graham is a huge Macross fan like the rest of us. He has said many times to the MWF community that since he lives in HK that he knows people at yamato. He does not work for them, Yamato seeks his opinion from time to time but thats it. He collects opinions from us and forwards them to yamato. You have to understand one thing. Yamato cant directly market or sell to the US or even anywhere outside of Japan. Due to Hoarmoney Gold and their BS. Next time do us all and your self a favor and atleast do a search of the forum before your rant!?!

Dude, do you not remember or were you even collecting Macross during the last 25 years. There were 1/55's. Period. And they cost a hell of a lot of money! Macross is a small small franchise in comparison to the other toys you are comparing the yamato toys to. I am just elated that Yamato picked up the line at all and has given us so many great toys to whine and bitch about.......... You could be whining about bandai 1\55's were it not for yamato.

Better yet go get your self a Toynami valk and see if you really still feel justified in your rant! And my offer to buy it still stands since its such a pile!

Edited February 1, 2008 by Spiff

[Wicked Ace]

yup

the post is too long which keeps jamming the nose cone

A word of caution before you file this down: the nose stays up due to the black piece grabbing the hinge (see above pic); also, the post has to be long enough to go all the way through.