More advice needed - paint in a spraycan

[Vifam7]

For smaller kits like 1/144 and 1/200, spraycan paints sometimes covers just too much at one time. So, it's time to use brushes. But I'm wondering... instead of going out and buying a standard bottle of paint and accompanying thinner, could I simply spray some of the paint in the spraycan into an empty jar or something lying around the house and simply use that? Or is the paint in spraycans specifically formulated for spraycan action?

Note: I know I should invest in an airbrush but right now I don't have the time, money, or place for such an option.

Edited January 15, 2008 by Vifam7

[jardann]

Yes, you can decant some paint from a spray can into a container in order to brush it on the model.

The spray paints are formulated a little differently, and some colors may not cover as well as paints that are straight from a bottle.

Make sure you work with small amounts at a time. Most importantly, make sure you are working in a very well ventilated area. The fumes from the spray paint will be even stronger than fumes from bottled paints.

If you have a lot of painting to do, I would still suggest you pick up an actual bottle of paint for your project.

[winterdyne]

Using spray paint with a brush will almost always give you a terrible finish. Much better to simply prime with a spraycan, then paint using brush-formulated acrylics - citadel or vallejo are good. Foundry (www.wargamesfoundry.co.uk) are also very good paints. You can brush paint with tamiya, but you need to thin it appropriately, and this is tricky without practice.

[Vifam7]

Using spray paint with a brush will almost always give you a terrible finish. Much better to simply prime with a spraycan, then paint using brush-formulated acrylics - citadel or vallejo are good. Foundry (www.wargamesfoundry.co.uk) are also very good paints. You can brush paint with tamiya, but you need to thin it appropriately, and this is tricky without practice.

BTW is it really necessary to prime? I've heard some folks say that they don't prime and do just fine.

Also, I've heard that acrylics (even Tamiyas) don't need to be thinned. Though if I want to, simply use some water. True?

I have some Tamiya acrylics and test painted some odd parts. They seem to work just fine with a brush straight out of the bottle. Maybe it depends from color to color?

[winterdyne]

Tamiya acrylics work best when thinned with the tamiya thinner (although an isopropyl / water mix apparently works quite well too). The other brands I mentioned thin with water.

Priming is necessary for 2 reasons:

First, to give the second layer of paint something to adhere to - the primer (usually an enamel or lacquer) melts the plastic slightly and bonds to it - the other paints don't and need the keyed surface provided by the primer. If your model is going to get handled at all, you need the additional toughness this gives to your paint work.

Second, to provide an even base colour - white primers work well under bright colours, grey under neutral and darker tones and black under metallics or very dark colours.

When brush painting you DON'T want to put too thick a coat on (where you can end up with brush strokes in the surface), instead it's better to put on a 2-3 coats when doing a 'block colour'. Basically, strokes in the colour at first, not the surface. You want your paint to be about the consistency of milk or thin cream. 70-30 tamiya paint to thinner works, as does about that ratio of the other brands to water.

[Vifam7]

Tamiya acrylics work best when thinned with the tamiya thinner (although an isopropyl / water mix apparently works quite well too). The other brands I mentioned thin with water.

Priming is necessary for 2 reasons:

First, to give the second layer of paint something to adhere to - the primer (usually an enamel or lacquer) melts the plastic slightly and bonds to it - the other paints don't and need the keyed surface provided by the primer. If your model is going to get handled at all, you need the additional toughness this gives to your paint work.

Second, to provide an even base colour - white primers work well under bright colours, grey under neutral and darker tones and black under metallics or very dark colours.

When brush painting you DON'T want to put too thick a coat on (where you can end up with brush strokes in the surface), instead it's better to put on a 2-3 coats when doing a 'block colour'. Basically, strokes in the colour at first, not the surface. You want your paint to be about the consistency of milk or thin cream. 70-30 tamiya paint to thinner works, as does about that ratio of the other brands to water.

Thanks for the info. Very much appreciated. Looks like you're right. I started brushing the Tamiya acrylics on some parts and they seemed to go on thick. I might have to strip that layer off. What's the best way to strip acrylic paint off? Dry sand? Wet sand?

I also tried some Vallejo brand paint as well. They seem to have that thin cream consistency you mentioned above. Definitely thinner. But maybe a little too runny? It feels like I'll need several coats before getting to a solid color. Especially for the color white.

This is my first attempt at painting so everything is a new experience. One thing thing I noticed about acrylics is that they seem to dry VERY fast. Certainly faster than I remember for enamels.

[winterdyne]

If you just want to strip the whole thing Mr Muscle Oven Cleaner rules. Just don't breathe it, wear gloves and it'll take everything off. You can also use a little tamiya thinner on a qtip, brasso (wadding type) etc. Acrylic comes off pretty easy.

It does dry fairly fast - especially the tamiya ones when used neat. The paint is often too dry before it hits the model which is why it needs thinning more than the others I've used.

To paint white solidly, the best way is to ensure you have a white or light grey undercoat (primer) and to use a soft, wide brush and 3-4 coats of thin paint. Sometimes the only way is to paint with a high pigment grey (Vallejo 'light grey' works well) first, and then the white on top.

This is the rule of thumb - for an even solid colour on a larger area use a softer, wider brush. Don't be tempted by cheap brushes! For fine detail, use a 'pointy-tipped' brush. The number of 0's doesn't matter nearly so much as how well the brush holds its point. Natural sable brushes work exceptionally well in both regards.

Also, look after your brushes (or they won't last 2 sessions):

1) ensure you clean paint away from the ferule (the metal bit holding the bristles to the handle)

2) clean bristles after rinsing by gentle pulling through a paper towel or tissue away from the ferule.

3) reform bristles into a point before storing BRISTLES UP.

Don't be tempted to 'scrub' your brush on a rag or surface, and never store bristles down.

Going back onto white techniques: I generally paint a white surface by highlighting up as opposed to shading down - this means I paint the surface grey and apply successive thin coats over it. On a small scale aircraft or vehicle you can do this to get a feathered effect for highlighting / weathering. I used less than 3 passes on this rushed GP01Fb:

You can also do 'scrub drybrushing' with a very old brush and an absolutely minimum amount of paint. Unfortunately I don't have an example to photo. The technique for that is to use an old, flared, soft bristle brush in a circular 'scrubbing' motion (like ladies' blusher) to lighten an area. Concentrating in an area (by moving in smaller circles) gives you a faster, tighter application. This trick's about as close as you can come to airbrushing without actually having an airbrush.

Edited January 16, 2008 by winterdyne

[Vifam7]

WOW, thank you for all the tips. I knew nothing about how you are supposed to care for brushes.

How should I use Mr. Oven Cleaner or Tamiya thinner to strip the paint off? Dab it on the plastic and wipe off with a paper towel? Or should/do I lightly scrape scrape scrape with a knife? I assume I should be careful of not using too much of the stuff as I heard thinner can eat away/melt the plastic.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Vifam7

[misterryno]

WOW, thank you for all the tips. I knew nothing about how you are supposed to care for brushes.

How should I use Mr. Oven Cleaner or Tamiya thinner to strip the paint off? Dab it on the plastic and wipe off with a paper towel? Or should/do I lightly scrape scrape scrape with a knife? I assume I should be careful of not using too much of the stuff as I heard thinner can eat away/melt the plastic.

For stripping of the paint I would look HERE.

[Skull-1]

Priming is not entirely necessary.

I have had better success with sanding then painting vs. sanding/priming/painting or priming/painting. The enemy of any transformable model's paintjob is friction. "Where the parts rub the paint will scrub." Primer adds thickness to the overall paintjob and rarely matches the top color so when the surface paint rubs away you see the primer underneath.

I tend to sand as much as possible then paint. After I transform the thing numerous times paint wear spots will show. I remove the part, re-sand, re-paint. Additional chips or wear marks I dab with a paintbrush as necessary.

On my primed pieces I do this much more often than on those I simply paint.

To each his own but experimentation will probably tell you what works best.

Sandable primer is great for fixing surface imperfections, and when you have a beat up part sometimes it is your only option. But as a rule I do not prime anything, and my paint seems to hold up amazingly well, especially DUPLI-COLOR's stuff.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Skull-1

[Vifam7]

Priming is not entirely necessary.

I have had better success with sanding then painting vs. sanding/priming/painting or priming/painting. The enemy of any transformable model's paintjob is friction. "Where the parts rub the paint will scrub." Primer adds thickness to the overall paintjob and rarely matches the top color so when the surface paint rubs away you see the primer underneath.

I tend to sand as much as possible then paint. After I transform the thing numerous times paint wear spots will show. I remove the part, re-sand, re-paint. Additional chips or wear marks I dab with a paintbrush as necessary.

On my next test project, I might try that method. What grit sandpaper do you use? Any particular kind of sanding motion? Circular? Towards one direction then another?

On a separate note, I got myself some Tamiya thinner and proceeded to strip off the paint. I thought it was going to be a painful process. It turned out to be REAL EASY. Some Q-tips, a bit of thinner, and then dab dab dab. Granted it didn't take ALL the paint off but I think certainly enough to put on a new coating.

[winterdyne]

Skull-1's right - the sanding is the most important part on a transformable job - but if you're using acrylics the primer provides better adhesion than the raw (even sanded) plastic. The paint rub effect you can minimalise or make look 'right' by using an appropriate primer for the part - if you've got white shining through on something that's meant to be metallic it'll look wrong, but black doesn't look so bad. On my valk I actually had to prime some parts in differing colours - the upper thigh has both black and white sections on it.

On small scale kits, you only really need a light coat of primer, since it's not going to get a lot of handling your main motivation is to get as even a colour as possible with as minimal a thickness of paint as possible.

[Skull-1]

I use standard "Fine" sandpaper. Just go over to Home Depot and get finest one they sell. I forget the grain but I know it when I see it--you will, too.

WD's method of priming will smooth out the scrathes before applying your color coat. I simply circular wetsand and apply to thin layers of paint and it has the same effect.

You may try both methods on a pair of identical parts and compare. You might be happier with one over the other.

I work almost exclusively with Enamels so that's another issue that may affect my non-use of primer.