SDF: Macross vs Macross Franchise

[KingNor]

Everyone is familiar with my insistance on SDF being by far the strongest Macross of the bunch. What do you think, and please, why do you feel the way you do?

I want to see if I'm completely nuts of if there are others like me.

Edited January 14, 2008 by KingNor

[jenius]

I think it's a bit of an unfair poll, too absolute. I think SDF Macross and DYRL are easily vastly superior to anything with the Macross name that has come out since. Each attempted sequel/prequel has had some merit to it though. So I guess I'm happy that they kept trying and bringing new fans in even if I feel much of what's been attempted has failed.

Edited January 14, 2008 by jenius

[KingNor]

Fair enough, but honestly, i'm not even a huge fan of DYRL. it muddies the events of the original show, makes roys death too heroic, and makes the VF's paintjobs kinda bland. PERSONALLY I'd be happier with out it confusing things in the name of movie format and flashier graphics.

Like i said, I'm hard line. I just wonder if anyone else is.

[miriya]

I love SDF Macross the original very much. The story is great, the characters are great, the mecha, all around great show.

However I really love Do You Remember Love? too. The artistic style of DYRL? is so sophisticated and elegant yet still raw in its aesthetic and brings most of the elements of SDF Macross together into one masterpiece.

I have yet to see Macross II (I will get to this soon) and have yet to see Macross 7 (will get to this later)

but I really do like Macross Plus. I like the Mecha of course and the story and especially Sharon Apple as the pop star who in contrast to Minmei who saves the SDF-1, Sharon almost destroys the SDF-1. I quite enjoyed it.

Macross Zero is one of my favorite and I enjoy it more than plus. I really love the mecha. Kawamori went all out on this one with the VF-0 S,A and D and the SV-51s. Just gorgeous. I also love the storyline and how the indigenous people were struggling to keep their culture intact without the pollution of modern society which reminded me of another reverse parallel with SDFM, where the Zentraedi struggled to keep their society free from culture. I love the characters in Zero too and the animation is fantastic.

Macross Frontier... I have only seen the first episode but I am really happy about it so far.

Sure, nothing compares to the original but I am very happy about the others so far. From what I hear, I may change my mind after watching macross 7 but I am willing to give it a chance.

[bob joe mac]

While I do agree that SDF macross was the best IMO macross production I've enjoyed every macross thats come since as well.

[Mr March]

There's really no option for me in this poll, so I won't vote.

IMO, everything Kawamori in the Macross franchise from October 1982 to August 1995 was pure gold. Post-August 1995, it's been awful to mediocre. To me, Macross Frontier is the first sign of a true return to form for the franchise and if it at least proves to be an above average series, I won't complain even if it's not a genre defining production like SDF Macross. I'll be satisfied with an entertaining and exciting sci-fi anime and I hope Macross Frontier delivers.

Edited January 14, 2008 by Mr March

[Sumdumgai]

Loved the original, loved DYRL even more, Macross Plus was pure awesome, Macross 7 was campy cheese (fun and annoying), Macross Zero was eye candy with a little story, Macross Frontier looks like a possible return to greatness.

[KingNor]

I am utterly alone :-(

[miriya]

I am utterly alone :-(

I am sure there are some SDFM hardcores just like you. Give the poll a couple of days. I am sure some others will pipe in and tell me what a looser I am for loving Macross Zero and its hippy tree people!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I voted I like how it is.

I like that the human are now in space and the possibilities that they are going to visit new cultures and civilisations beyond their own. It means unlike gundam where they are constantly at war with themselves there is more mystery about the aliens, how the fight, and the weapons they will use.

In gundam all that happens is one side steals a robot from one side, and the other steals a robot from the other side and they fight using the same weapons until one makes a doomsday device that wipes humans out.

Macross has progressed beyond that, destroyed the earth, and had humans bounced back from it. Really there is nothing left for them to fight unless they go into space and face new threats. It's like space is the wild, (pirates, outlaws savage unseen monsters can exist and danger is back in again) humans are once again "pioneers" looking for new lands, (each planet can have its own unique feel and mecha) and uncertain fate awaits them out there. (discovery of ancient ruins, lost civilisations)

Zentradi was one race, what about the many other races that the pc may have encountered that weren't part of the war they had against themselves? As the world expands, we can see new things rather than retread old ground like gundam which is stuck recreating a science fiction version of world war II. (nazi like dictatorship with european culture vs open free democratic american country struggling to catch up and stop them from expanding)

I like SDF:Macross and DYRL the best out of the whole macross franchise. But things change, and macross has to move forward. Characters grow old and married, just like in a soap opera, they die, leave a legacy, and others take their place. If hikaru were to reappear, in macross F, he'd be old, teenagers of today wouldn't relate to him, and girls wouldn't care much about him because he is middle-aged and wouldn't want to make fan fiction about the character.

In a sense it reminds me of all the old transformer generation 1 fans bashing the new transformers tv series: they want the "great war" again. But that is past history now and the world is better when you expand it and grow it so it feels multigenerational and realistic. Characters like ratchet are old and jaded, and new versions of the same guy can appear in the form of totally new and interesting character.(see beast wars for example: cheetor = new rodimus, tarantulus = new starscream, etc ..similar but new)

If you like SDF:Macross you'd have to remake it (much better animation: something like what eureka 7 had but retain the detail in the original) like they did with battlestar galactica, but the problem is fans of the original would stop it from ever happening because they are so set in their old ways and think it would destroy the name. (just like the new transformers movie where people didn't like the change of the faces or the attempt at making the robots complex and mechanical due to nostalgia)

If Zero was the attempt to remake the vf-1 for modern audience, then a remake of SDFM would have to have similar levels of rethinking so that it would appeal to people of today. (that would mean a new minmay?) Maybe change the story so that the sdf-1 "robot mode" isn't a coincidence but an intended mode so it's not so cheesy. Make the story have a much more climactic ending. The last third of the series would need better pacing. (maybe have constant attempts by zentradi rogues to challenge the destroids in micronised form with educated brains rather than a period of peace)

Edited January 15, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Isamu test pilot]

OK, I like the actual Macross Time line, I only wish that somethings could be different like Basara or some details on Macross 7 and Zero, but Macross Plus is OK and Macross Frontier seems to will be great

[Heron]

I enjoy anything Macross equally. Does that make me less of a fan?

[miriya]

I enjoy anything Macross equally. Does that make me less of a fan?

So DYRL? and Macross7 are equally brilliant?

EDIT: I do not mean to be rude but you must like one more than another, right? Even just a little bit?

Edited January 15, 2008 by miriya

[miriya]

If you like SDF:Macross you'd have to remake it (much better animation: something like what eureka 7 had but retain the detail in the original) like they did with battlestar galactica, but the problem is fans of the original would stop it from ever happening because they are so set in their old ways and think it would destroy the name. (just like the new transformers movie where people didn't like the change of the faces or the attempt at making the robots complex and mechanical due to nostalgia)

I seriously doubt there is any way anyone would remake SDF macross as in re doing all 36 episodes. But just as DYRL? was sort of a remake of SDFm, I think that a remake of DYRL? would be possible today. Sure, the original would still be the original and fantastic but I think that it is possible that Kawamori Mikimoto Nue et al could make a really kick ass remake of DYRL.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Heron:

Not many people liked macross 7 because of the valks with faces in it and magic that basara had to defeat the PD. It was more kiddy. Zero wasn't too bad since imo it did try to link some of the magic with tech. (for eg: the activation of the antigravity devices which made the anti-un ship float, the ancient robot which is discovered by afos radar being the decision-making self destruct device to prevent humans from going out of control like the zents and using the weapon to spread destruction in space. It makes the PC seem less mysterious now that we see a piece of their technology and hear the creation legend rather than gloss over it in SDF:M, showing that some descendants might still be amongst humans, so there is hope that humans can actually communicate to them if there are some out there.)

Edited January 15, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Graham]

I love all Macross, even 7, which I feel in many ways is even stronger than SDF-M.

Frontier looks to be an excellent addition to the franchise.

[jasgripen]

I think that the original Macross TV series should have a remake using DYRL animation. It just has a classic feel to it. A lot of the modern macross productions use DYRL as reference like the uniforms of the UN SPACY. Even the intro of macross frontier uses DYRL images.

Maybe a possible remake of the TV series using the old animation but using modern animation for mecha battles. That would be interesting.

Another thing for me is the possibility of including a prologue for DYRL. The saturn and psx games had it. Hope that the epilogue also expands more on the other characters so that it gives a proper closure and not just a concert.

Macross 7 was just a waste, they should have focused more on the story rather than the annoying fire bomber and the one and only basara nekki who i think ruined the macross franchise. I think that it should have been done on the gamlin's perspective.

Macross Zero lacked detail on the story regarding the point of wanting the Bird Human but the animation and mecha action was its saving grace. Maybe a connection between zero and frontier is just around the corner since the pop idol is sheryl nome. a probable descendant of mao.

[KingNor]

Really the only thing that bugged me about SDF was the jumpy animation quality, i personally liked the characters and mech designs better than even DYRL.

There is NO question that DYRL had much better production value though. For the look of the show though, i'm all about SDF, I just wish they'd had a budget to keep things looking a tad better and re-use less animation.

[SpacyAce2012]

While I do have my gripes about some things in the franchise, I've pretty much enjoyed everything released to date, including Macross II and the first episode of Macross Frontier.

So, I wouldn't have stopped with the original series.

After all, look at my sig. I'm a proud Macross CONSUMER WHORE!

[Black Spiral]

I'd have to consider SDFM as my all time favorite as well. In terms of story, characters, character development, mecha and overall cool factor, this show delivered the goods. Before the Valkyries (and their somewhat retarded, earth-ridden Destroid brethern), most 'mecha' were more along the lines of Voltron or Ultraman or some other boring, unimaginative piece of junk. Macross captured an entire generation of fans that has endured to this day. The fact that this very Forum exists today, more than likely owes its sole allegiance to the VF-1 and characters like Roy, Hikaru, Misa and...god help me, even Minmei.

SDFM did have some seriously cool follow-on material however, albeit on an extremely limited basis IMHO at least.

DYRL looked awesome but in the end is only a high production value take on the classic SDFM. Without DYRL, we wouldn't have the Strike Valkyrie...imagine that if you will.

Macross Plus gave us another high production take on the evolution of the Valkyrie through the 19 and 21. I also very much enjoyed the characters of Isamu and Guld and the realism of their rivalry / friendship. Those two I believe, could easily carry a series of their own.

Macross 7... <sigh> I did not enjoy Mac 7 at all. In fact, I found it to be absolutely ridiculous. Isamu barely kept a grip on the YF-19 and now you're trying to tell me that some hippie can fly one while playing guitar and singing at the same time??? IMHO, Macross 7 should be banished to the seventh level of Hell. And you wonder why Gundam fans snicker at Macross fans...it's 'cause of Mac 7.

Macross Zero could have been great, had they abandoned the great potato head thingy in the sky and focused instead on the back story between the UN Spacy and the Anti-UN Alliance. Think about it. We will probably never see the Anti-UN fleshed out to any degree of depth. What a waste. On the flip side however, the Valkyrie dogfights were extremely top notch.

Macross Frontier? Remains to be seen. Here we are 25 years after Hikaru took that VF-1D for a spin and from what I've seen of Mac F thus far, tells me that we have a real shot at getting the Mac series that we've ALL wanted since SDFM. A great story, combined with state of the art combat scenes all topped off with interesting characters with potential room to grow.

SDFM was and is the most solid of all the Macross series. Perhaps Kawamori realised this too after 25 years. A quick look at the new VF-25 (especially the Roy and Hikaru color variants) could very well be a clue to this realisation. The rest of us however, will have to tune-in to find out for sure. I for one, have got my fingers crossed for a return of that certain SDFM magic.

I'll get off the soapbox now...rant ends.

[Graham]

And you wonder why Gundam fans snicker at Macross fans...it's 'cause of Mac 7.

Don’t worry, Macross fans snicker back at Gundam fans even more, because of Wing Gundam, G Gundam, SEED Destiny and all the really silly looking MS and MA designs.

Graham

[Keith]

Don’t worry, Macross fans snicker back at Gundam fans even more, because of Wing Gundam, G Gundam, SEED Destiny and all the really silly looking MS and MA designs.

Graham

Besides which, 7 is full of hot blooded pilot rock & roll action. Something the franchise desperately needed!

[SpacyAce2012]

Don’t worry, Macross fans snicker back at Gundam fans even more, because of Wing Gundam, G Gundam, SEED Destiny and all the really silly looking MS and MA designs.

Graham

Nah, I don't snicker at them for TPTB milking the Gundam money cow. It may have something to do with the fact that I don't acknowledge anything, outside of the main Universal Century timeline, as Gundam.

The rest of it was just adolescent crap. And fans of the "classic" Gundam actually have my sympathy.

[KingNor]

It may have something to do with the fact that I don't acknowledge anything, outside of the main Universal Century timeline, as Gundam.

oh no.. so is it safe to say you're more of a hardline gundam fan than macross? unacceptable!

[azrael]

I like all Macross. Each series has it's demerits but I've generally liked it on the whole. I can't say much about MF since the series has yet to be seen in its full form.

[Sergorn]

Well I'll say I pretty much loved every Macross Sequel.

The only one I'd be willing to discard is Macross II - and I don't even think it is *that* bad to begin with. It had some neat ideas and cool designs... it only suffered from being rather poor on a technical standpoint, and falling in the usual "sequel trap" (ie. just doing a rehash of the original). But all in all i'd argue it's pretty decent.

Which brings me to the others series - I loved each one of them, and basically what I like about the Macross sequels is how Kawamori never did the same mistake than Macross II - none of them felt like a rehash of the original series (like well... a *lot* of Gundam series were, even within the UC sequels), and each brought something unique to the table, with its own feel and style. Sure you can argue Macross 7 was stupid and silly, but you can't argue that it is a rather unique series - I think its general crazyness and sillyness is part of its charm personally. At the risk of shocking some people, yeah I love Macross 7 just as much as the original SDF Macross... I thought it was a wonderful sequel to the original series... furthering the same thematics that it did. I'd say I like it more than Macross Plus for this same reason (I loved Macross Plus... but unlike the other sequels it really just a side story so all in all it doesn't feel as connecte or interesting thanthe other series). My only complain about Macross 7 is that really... too much repeat animation. And Macross Zero that's pretty close to flawless in my book (flawess would me DYRL... which I consider an actual masterpiece, moreso than the original series)... I only wish it had one more episode, since the last one felt a tad too rushed

So no I must say I'm glad Macross is continuing... I thought eveyrthign Kawamori sequel brought something new and interesting to the univers and were great fun to watch - considering I also loved most of Kawamori's non-Macross' work... seing him doing another Macross series just bring me great joy If Macross Frontier manage to remain just as good as its premiere for 26 episodes eck, it could very much become the best Macross series in my book.

Don’t worry, Macross fans snicker back at Gundam fans even more, because of Wing Gundam, G Gundam, SEED Destiny and all the really silly looking MS and MA designs.

Meh. I don't know what's the general opinions on the Gundam series around here, but I happened to like a *lot* said Gundam series (granted Wing was my first Gundam, but still...) - I think the franchise has produced a lot worse... and eck some of the worst Gundam came from Tomino within the UC IMO (But all was forgiven with Turn A Gundam)

-Sergorn

[Wurz]

oh no.. so is it safe to say you're more of a hardline gundam fan than macross? unacceptable!

I AGREE 100% with spaceace. UC is the bomb anything else is meh I shut down and just watch the fancy robots blow other robots up with big guns, missles and even BIGGER guns. (and the occasional sword, knife fights)

but yeah I love everything about Macross, kinda half hearted with Macross II thou but that's just me.

Macross FTW!

[Zinjo]

Like 'em all with Mac 7 sitting around the bottom of the pile, but that's because I was an adult when I saw it so I don't appreciate it as much as some might. Didn't much care for Kawamori's foray into a 49 episode fantasy manga series. Prefer Mac II over 7 as the premise is a bit more believable to me.

All the shows have their individual flaws, but I prefer Mac over Gundam personally, with the exception of Char's Counter Attack (love that movie!). I suspect if I did get into the "G" franchise I'd be attracted to the UC stuff as well...

[KingNor]

as of right now, there's 8 people who agree with me, but doesn't seem like any want to post. Have I put my life into some kind of danger by announcing publicly to the fandom that i only really like SDF? <fear>

[MisaForever]

I can't say I've liked any of the Gundam that I've seen. It's missing a lot that SDF:Macross had/has. Just having cool mecha does not make a good series. (Not to say Macross doesn't of course!! But you have to have other things as well like characterization.)

[Sergorn]

I can't say I've liked any of the Gundam that I've seen. It's missing a lot that SDF:Macross had/has. Just having cool mecha does not make a good series. (Not to say Macross doesn't of course!! But you have to have other things as well like characterization.)

I'd the main difference between Gundam and Macross IMO... and that Gundam tend to be more... "political"... it often have a lot of political intrigue and manipulation... lots of twist and turn in the story, ambiguous characters and so on... in a way I would say it feels more "thought provocking" than Macross... but Macross IMO is just how to put it... more emotionnal there's just this "something" in Macross that just seems to touch your heart and your soul in a way that no Gundam series ever did (and yet I'm a huge Gundam fan...)

-Sergorn

[miriya]

as of right now, there's 8 people who agree with me, but doesn't seem like any want to post. Have I put my life into some kind of danger by announcing publicly to the fandom that i only really like SDF? <fear>

That is one of those funny things about a poll isnt it? Its like where did those votes come from? Seriously! Who are you? Lets bond over our similar tastes! You do not have to hide forever! There are a lot of us out here!

[Sumdumgai]

Oh, and I don't consider Macross II canon. If I could I would deny its existence. That was one VHS tape I could have spent on something else...

May Macross never focus on a self-righteous news reporter as main character ever again!

[KingNor]

The fact that Macross, especially at it's roots was really ABOUT the characters. The love story of SDF is so central to the story that the whole war almost takes a back seat.

To me it's very much like some of those old Homer stories, you really feel like the people are just totally mixed up in this world they live in, and their lives go on dispite the crazyness.

It's something all of Macross strives for, but I think SDF REALLy pulled it off. I havn't gotten very far into Macross 7 but maybe the reason for SDF's emotional impact is how long it is. It has time to develope the characters AND give the fluff and mechs of the show lots of air time with out competeing for space.

That was maybe my main gripe with Plus. There was a lot of potential there, but it felt to me kind of rushed, with the VF's getting most of the love.

>.<

[Exsedol]

I don't care if it's a tv show about a dog taking a dump, if it's called macross I'm a fan. That being said, SDF:M is the best and will always be the best. All the newer movies and shows are still packed with coolness but they went in a direction I'm starting to find annoying. I'll watch whatever they release but it's like Startrek the next gen and the original. "Startrek next gen was superior in many ways but it will never be as recognized as the original" - Wayne Cambel