U.N. Military Service-Which Variable Fighter would you fly?

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

That statement pretty much proves you haven't got a clue

I'm pretty sure all the crews that flew in the cold war would feel honoured that you think so highly of their dull safe lives.

I didn't say that being an AWACS pilot wasn't dangerous, just about every Military occupation has some type of danger especially during a time of war.

Combat fighter pilots, Infantry soldiers, Special Forces operatives and Armored Mechanized crews are in immediate danger since they are in the immediate combat zone.

AWACS crews are not usually in the immediate combat zone since they are valuable assets for all aircrews needing up to date intelligance reports of where enemy air assets are at. But that doesn't mean there jobs are safe, theres always that chance that they could come under attack far from where the fighting is. But in the end all military personal no matter what there occupation is have to be prepared to go into combat when they are needed.

Edited January 11, 2008 by VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK

[thegunny]

But in the end all military personal no matter what there occupation is have to be prepared to go into combat when they are needed.

Spoken like someone who's been there and done that

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Spoken like someone who's been there and done that

You got that right buddy!!!

[thegunny]

You got that right buddy!!!

And what dream was that in

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

And what dream was that in

Thats Classified-Why would you want to know, why would you care!!!! Its not a dream.

Edited January 11, 2008 by VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK

[ChronoReverse]

Argh, I hate it when I lose a typed up post.

And any real pilot already deals with far more things at once than a driver on a cellphone anyways.

Getting the information to them in a more intuitive manner is a GOOD thing.

Again, we've established that the eyeball discards large amounts of detail.

But even you said that it's not intuitive, that you have to learn how to process the information. Sure, it can become intuitive with enough repetitions, but so does a wrap-around screen.

In any case, a good pilot is one that filters out what isn't necessary at the moment to concentrate on what is important. If even simple things like a 60Hz hum in the background or merely being worried about something can hurt productivity, increasing the amount of incoming information isn't good regardless of how much processing the brain can do.

That said, it's true that much of the processing the brain does on inputs is "hardwired" that way from the growth processes of childhood and thus doesn't really use the normal pool of processing power. I suppose it's possible to link child's brain to BDI and have them hardwired to use BDI intuitively.

If the lowly wolf, can see, hear, and smell better than us, if a small owl can see , hear, and smell better than us, if a tiny bat can see, hear, and smell better than us AND process sonar on the fly in it's head(a task even a BCS'ed human wouldn't be left with, as the computer would do pre-processing anyways), what makes you so certain that we're riding at the upper limits of our own capacity?

The way they see better isn't that much different as BDI is (which is introducing a whole new sense). A wolf sees better in low light than we can; that doesn't mean we don't see better if we have full light and the wolf had low light... brightening and increasing contrast is something a computer can do easily. An eagle has better visual acuity at range; a limitation of the physical sensor, but that's just as if it were closer/larger... which magnification can handily take care of. In fact, since the onboard sensors have to be able to detect the object to present it, there's no reason a small dot can't be highlighted in some way by a computer. Sonar, humans have a form of this too (humans can learn to avoid objects simply by the sound reflections from steps) but it's much much lower resolution... however we already have radar systems that are able to analyse and return valid objects the size of marbles from several kilometers out making them points on a screen. Without processing, the return look pretty much like white noise.

All that processing can already easily be done with modern systems and reduced to a form that shows ONLY what is necessary for the pilot. Again, you want to reduce the processing burden of the pilot, not increase it by multiple magnitudes of order.

Do you really think that a civilian pilot, no matter how good, is going to have years of training in how to use a fighter jet in a combat scenario, followed by a military career leaving hundreds of enemies dead in his wake?

In real life I'd say yes. WW2 demonstrate clearly that fighter tactics could be devised that are still effective to this day. It's entirely possible for a non-military pilot to have intimate knowledge of the flight mechanics of a plane. Especially in an experimental setting where the said limits must be FOUND.

In the Macross world, I'd not only say yes, but HELL YEAH. Paramilitary groups like S.M.S. aside, we also have the stunts being pulled by people like Basara, Hikaru or even Max.

Long discussions usually muddy up the original point so I'll re-iterate what I really wanted to say.

Primary Points:

(1) The benefits of BDS/BDI isn't so great that it makes/breaks

(2) BDS does improve the latency of controls

(3) BDS does NOT make flying "easy" or even "intuitive"

Ancilliary points:

(1) BDI can provide more information at once but doing that would consequently make it harder to comprehend

(2) You want to reduce processing load on pilots not increase it

(3) Latency isn't the limiting factor of pilots; it's flight control skill, combat awareness (knowing what to do and when) and pilot physical limits (e.g., g-forces)

Edited January 11, 2008 by ChronoReverse

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Argh, I hate it when I lose a typed up post.

But even you said that it's not intuitive, that you have to learn how to process the information. Sure, it can become intuitive with enough repetitions, but so does a wrap-around screen.

In any case, a good pilot is one that filters out what isn't necessary at the moment to concentrate on what is important. If even simple things like a 60Hz hum in the background or merely being worried about something can hurt productivity, increasing the amount of incoming information isn't good regardless of how much processing the brain can do.

That said, it's true that much of the processing the brain does on inputs is "hardwired" that way from the growth processes of childhood and thus doesn't really use the normal pool of processing power. I suppose it's possible to link child's brain to BDI and have them hardwired to use BDI intuitively.

The way they see better isn't that much different as BDI is (which is introducing a whole new sense). A wolf sees better in low light than we can; that doesn't mean we don't see better if we have full light and the wolf had low light... brightening and increasing contrast is something a computer can do easily. An eagle has better visual acuity at range; a limitation of the physical sensor, but that's just as if it were closer/larger... which magnification can handily take care of. In fact, since the onboard sensors have to be able to detect the object to present it, there's no reason a small dot can't be highlighted in some way by a computer. Sonar, humans have a form of this too (humans can learn to avoid objects simply by the sound reflections from steps) but it's much much lower resolution... however we already have radar systems that are able to analyse and return valid objects the size of marbles from several kilometers out making them points on a screen. Without processing, the return look pretty much like white noise.

All that processing can already easily be done with modern systems and reduced to a form that shows ONLY what is necessary for the pilot. Again, you want to reduce the processing burden of the pilot, not increase it by multiple magnitudes of order.

In real life I'd say yes. WW2 demonstrate clearly that fighter tactics could be devised that are still effective to this day. It's entirely possible for a non-military pilot to have intimate knowledge of the flight mechanics of a plane. Especially in an experimental setting where the said limits must be FOUND.

In the Macross world, I'd not only say yes, but HELL YEAH. Paramilitary groups like S.M.S. aside, we also have the stunts being pulled by people like Basara, Hikaru or even Max.

Long discussions usually muddy up the original point so I'll re-iterate what I really wanted to say.

Primary Points:

(1) The benefits of BDS/BDI isn't so great that it makes/breaks

(2) BDS does improve the latency of controls

(3) BDS does NOT make flying "easy" or even "intuitive"

Ancilliary points:

(1) BDI can provide more information at once but doing that would consequently make it harder to comprehend

(2) You want to reduce processing load on pilots not increase it

(3) Latency isn't the limiting factor of pilots; it's flight control skill, combat awareness (knowing what to do and when) and pilot physical limits (e.g., g-forces)

Thanks for the info that you posted it was very informative on flying and on the workings of the brain and eye. It gave me a better idea on how the BDI/BCS Advanced Flight Control system on the YF-21 works. Thanks again!!!

[s001]

In 2050 as a member of a VF-X team (where I'm the only male pilot) I would fly a VF-1X PLUS (S-type of course) and occasionally taking the VF-19A for a ride. That's style my friends!

Or in 2040 as one of those lazy pilots at New Edwards Base on Eden obviously piloting a VF-11B.

[biggooftoybox]

Each plane has its pros and cons. But i think the YF-22 looks the best. I don't suppose I can order that with conventional controls?

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Each plane has its pros and cons. But i think the YF-22 looks the best. I don't suppose I can order that with conventional controls?

The VF-22 comes with conventional flight controls. All we need is a deposit from you, sign some papers and you'll be flying off. BTW-Is there a particular color you want your VF-22 to be painted in?

[Isamu test pilot]

Well, in order to answer to this poll, I would like to pilot:

VF-1S w/strike pack

VF-4G Lighting III

YF-19 as a test pilot

and... a Monster yeah

Of course it is a Destroid but I would love to pilot one.

[JB0]

Argh, I hate it when I lose a typed up post.

But even you said that it's not intuitive, that you have to learn how to process the information. Sure, it can become intuitive with enough repetitions, but so does a wrap-around screen.

But a 360 screen does nothing for your actual field of vision.

In any case, a good pilot is one that filters out what isn't necessary at the moment to concentrate on what is important. If even simple things like a 60Hz hum in the background or merely being worried about something can hurt productivity, increasing the amount of incoming information isn't good regardless of how much processing the brain can do.

And you just assume it won't be selectable?

That said, it's true that much of the processing the brain does on inputs is "hardwired" that way from the growth processes of childhood and thus doesn't really use the normal pool of processing power. I suppose it's possible to link child's brain to BDI and have them hardwired to use BDI intuitively.

Actually, it's NOT hardwired.

That's one of many beliefs to be shattered in recent years.

Someone deaf from birth can learn to hear if given the means. The permanently blind can see, if provided eyes.

And if you wire a robot arm into an orangutan, it will develop a section of the brain for it's third arm that's indistinguishable from the two existing arm control nodes in a rather short period of time. Obviously, this hasn't been tested on humans, but it's highly likely that the same will happen.

The way they see better isn't that much different as BDI is (which is introducing a whole new sense). A wolf sees better in low light than we can; that doesn't mean we don't see better if we have full light and the wolf had low light...

And the wolf sees better in full light too.

Besides, you were arguing that we were at the upper limits of what we could process. They can process more information than we do, so I fail to be convinced that we're at our upper limits when a clearly inferior brain can process more.

Sonar, humans have a form of this too (humans can learn to avoid objects simply by the sound reflections from steps) but it's much much lower resolution...

Largely because we aren't really equipped for precise sonic detection.

however we already have radar systems that are able to analyse and return valid objects the size of marbles from several kilometers out making them points on a screen. Without processing, the return look pretty much like white noise.

All that processing can already easily be done with modern systems and reduced to a form that shows ONLY what is necessary for the pilot. Again, you want to reduce the processing burden of the pilot, not increase it by multiple magnitudes of order.

I never said dump the raw radar return into the pilot's head. That WOULD be outside human capacity, if the dolphin is any indication(they appear to have a more powerful brain than homo sapiens, but the vast majority of that power is used for high-resolution sonar).

I just said don't dump a squashed 2D representation out to a display screen to be further mangled by the retina, reduced massively by the optic nerve limitations, and subsequently remangled by the brain's attempt to extrapolate out what the eye discarded when technology provides a way to give the brain an unmangled 3D version.

In real life I'd say yes. WW2 demonstrate clearly that fighter tactics could be devised that are still effective to this day. It's entirely possible for a non-military pilot to have intimate knowledge of the flight mechanics of a plane. Especially in an experimental setting where the said limits must be FOUND.

Okay, so you're saying IN THE REAL WORLD reading a book about dogfighting is just as good as actually going out and killing people that are trying to kill you?

That's all I needed to know.

In the Macross world, I'd not only say yes, but HELL YEAH. Paramilitary groups like S.M.S. aside, we also have the stunts being pulled by people like Basara, Hikaru or even Max.

Hikaru, while a highly-skilled professional pilot, was a LOUSY fighter pilot when he started.

Max is NEVER seen as an untrained combat pilot, and is also acknowledged by Kawamori to be totally outside the bounds of normalcy.

Basara is your only maybe-valid point. His background is never established, so we don't know.

Long discussions usually muddy up the original point so I'll re-iterate what I really wanted to say.

Primary Points:

(1) The benefits of BDS/BDI isn't so great that it makes/breaks

(2) BDS does improve the latency of controls

(3) BDS does NOT make flying "easy" or even "intuitive"

Ancilliary points:

(1) BDI can provide more information at once but doing that would consequently make it harder to comprehend

(2) You want to reduce processing load on pilots not increase it

(3) Latency isn't the limiting factor of pilots; it's flight control skill, combat awareness (knowing what to do and when) and pilot physical limits (e.g., g-forces)

Primary points:

1: BCS DOES make or break it.

2: BCS DOES make flying a fighter jet easier by supplying more intuitive access to the myriad features of a VERY complex piece of equipment.

Ancilliary points:

1. BDI provides more information to a pilot in a more convenient form, as well as a more convenient way of selecting what information you want access to.

2. BCS reduces the processing load on the pilot by creating a more intuitive way to access a greater degree of information.

3. BDI enhances a pilot's perception of the world to superhuman levels, enabling such feats as flying towards and through a cloud of high-maneuverability missiles without even a near-miss and outflying a computer drone capable of far exceeding human perception and physical tolerances.

4. You genuinely believe combat experience has no bearing on whether you're a good fighter pilot.

Guld explicitly states in Macross Plus that he's the only person that can take down the Ghost. It's not because the YF-21 is that much faster and more maneuverable than the YF-19. It's not because he's that much mroe skilled than Isamu(quite the opposite). It's because the YF-21's pilot is operating on an entirely different level than any other human, half-human, or zentradi in the galaxy.

And on that note, I drop it.

[grebo guru]

I'd fly a Scramble Valkyrie. It's obscure, overarmed, and canonically nonexistent (I think). Very much my kinda VF!

[JB0]

I'd fly a Scramble Valkyrie. It's obscure, overarmed, and canonically nonexistent (I think). Very much my kinda VF!

VF-1SOL!

But would it be a Hikaru, Max, or Millia weapon pack?

Edited January 12, 2008 by JB0

[ChronoReverse]

Okay, so you're saying IN THE REAL WORLD reading a book about dogfighting is just as good as actually going out and killing people that are trying to kill you?

That's all I needed to know.

If you're going to be so glib and deliberately take and reduce my comment to a farce point, then it's clear you're not prepared to discuss. So I'll only address one point which is tangent to the whole issue.

Guld explicitly states in Macross Plus that he's the only person that can take down the Ghost. It's not because the YF-21 is that much faster and more maneuverable than the YF-19. It's not because he's that much mroe skilled than Isamu(quite the opposite). It's because the YF-21's pilot is operating on an entirely different level than any other human, half-human, or zentradi in the galaxy.

This was a stickler point of Plus that I didn't fully agree with. Even if you had BCS, it still wouldn't increase your reaction times to even come close to the level of a computer. So even if you're able to continue piloting despite g-forces crushing your body (which is another problem... if the g-forces were strong enough to crush your eyes and sink your fists into your abdomen, surely your brain would also be mush already), reaction time still won't match the Ghost. The high maneuver mode made sense I guess since otherwise it wouldn't be plausible that the 21 matched the Ghost's agility. But it still wouldn't exceed the Ghost's.

In the end this was a dramatic scene that doesn't really stand up to scrutiny, BDI/BCS or not.

[JB0]

If you're going to be so glib and deliberately take and reduce my comment to a farce point, then it's clear you're not prepared to discuss.

Your comment WAS a farce.

This was a stickler point of Plus that I didn't fully agree with. Even if you had BCS, it still wouldn't increase your reaction times to even come close to the level of a computer. So even if you're able to continue piloting despite g-forces crushing your body (which is another problem... if the g-forces were strong enough to crush your eyes and sink your fists into your abdomen, surely your brain would also be mush already), reaction time still won't match the Ghost. The high maneuver mode made sense I guess since otherwise it wouldn't be plausible that the 21 matched the Ghost's agility. But it still wouldn't exceed the Ghost's.

In the end this was a dramatic scene that doesn't really stand up to scrutiny, BDI/BCS or not.

Macross has always played fast and loose with inertia. Most mech anime does.

Though the brain is one of the best-protected organs in the body, and it's not implausible that it would survive longer than the eyes and the stomach.

In short, your rebuttal is "Guld can't do what Guld did, because the BCS can't do what it did!"

[Garrick]

oh well, might as well.

2009-onwards

I'd like to get my hands on one of the few VF-3000 Crusaders that were manufactured. Superior trust and manouverability and as much weapons as a VF-1, my take.

2042

VF-19A. Perfect in space and atmosphere, plus it's stealth and i don't have to fry my brain to fly it. More versatile gunpod, too.

2050

VF-25 with service-long clearence to use the new armor pack. I need firepower. If i have the chanche, i'd fly sometimes in a VB-6 for a change.

[ChronoReverse]

Your comment WAS a farce.

How about you RESEARCH my comment before you make a comment like that. I said that fighter tactics have been developed in real life enabled American fighters which has lower performance than the Zeroes to win. Tactics that are still applicable today (assuming the air battle even goes into dogfight range).

My point was that this tactic was devised by an aviator (which is obvious, you need real flight experience to know how a plane handles) but outside of a battle and even outside of personal battle experience (he hadn't flown against the Zero yet). It was developed using thought exercises on the premise the enemy fighter had greater maneuverability and climbing ability. And it worked.

You then decided to take the comment completely to its overblown "conclusion" that a military pilot would CERTAINLY be outperformed by a civilian one whereas I meant that a pilot with lots of real experience and great skill might still be matched by one with less experience simply because nobody can possibly have covered all the bases in an arena where the wily rule.

Clearly Guld was an inferior pilot to Isamu. I think it's pretty certain that Guld was no ordinary pilot either and would certainly be elite even in the military.

In short, your rebuttal is "Guld can't do what Guld did, because the BCS can't do what it did!"

No, this was a separate issue where I was saying, as you did, that it played fast and loose with physics. Besides, chemical imbalances coupled with high emotions was enough to completely disable the BCS earlier, amazing how subjecting the brain to massive deforming pressure didn't do anything.

In any case, Guld collided with the Ghost, which also doesn't make much sense for two fighters with similar performance if one fighter was actively trying to avoid the other (both fighters pushed so hard that they were self-destructing from the air) so that scene doesn't make too much sense in other ways as well.

I personally think that the Ghost's performance in Plus was higher than it normally would be. The AI that took it over seemed to be on a higher order than even the normal bioneural chip. Furthermore, both AVF pilots were tired and had depleted most of their ordnance. Guld was called out from the middle of the night and Isamu certainly didn't get to sleep either.

And as for the comments about grafting, that's hardly like the BDS where you use it for a few hours and then take it off.

This all still doesn't bring it back to the crux of the matter. The one time BCS/BDI was used to exceed what was possible with the standard systems, it killed the pilot. As mentioned really early on, the limitation is still the physical body's endurance rather than the senses.

Anyway, you're right about BDI/BCS providing an advantage in the Macross Universe.

Edited January 14, 2008 by ChronoReverse

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

But a 360 screen does nothing for your actual field of vision.

And you just assume it won't be selectable?

Actually, it's NOT hardwired.

That's one of many beliefs to be shattered in recent years.

Someone deaf from birth can learn to hear if given the means. The permanently blind can see, if provided eyes.

And if you wire a robot arm into an orangutan, it will develop a section of the brain for it's third arm that's indistinguishable from the two existing arm control nodes in a rather short period of time. Obviously, this hasn't been tested on humans, but it's highly likely that the same will happen.

And the wolf sees better in full light too.

Besides, you were arguing that we were at the upper limits of what we could process. They can process more information than we do, so I fail to be convinced that we're at our upper limits when a clearly inferior brain can process more.

Largely because we aren't really equipped for precise sonic detection.

I never said dump the raw radar return into the pilot's head. That WOULD be outside human capacity, if the dolphin is any indication(they appear to have a more powerful brain than homo sapiens, but the vast majority of that power is used for high-resolution sonar).

I just said don't dump a squashed 2D representation out to a display screen to be further mangled by the retina, reduced massively by the optic nerve limitations, and subsequently remangled by the brain's attempt to extrapolate out what the eye discarded when technology provides a way to give the brain an unmangled 3D version.

Okay, so you're saying IN THE REAL WORLD reading a book about dogfighting is just as good as actually going out and killing people that are trying to kill you?

That's all I needed to know.

Hikaru, while a highly-skilled professional pilot, was a LOUSY fighter pilot when he started.

Max is NEVER seen as an untrained combat pilot, and is also acknowledged by Kawamori to be totally outside the bounds of normalcy.

Basara is your only maybe-valid point. His background is never established, so we don't know.

Primary points:

1: BCS DOES make or break it.

2: BCS DOES make flying a fighter jet easier by supplying more intuitive access to the myriad features of a VERY complex piece of equipment.

Ancilliary points:

1. BDI provides more information to a pilot in a more convenient form, as well as a more convenient way of selecting what information you want access to.

2. BCS reduces the processing load on the pilot by creating a more intuitive way to access a greater degree of information.

3. BDI enhances a pilot's perception of the world to superhuman levels, enabling such feats as flying towards and through a cloud of high-maneuverability missiles without even a near-miss and outflying a computer drone capable of far exceeding human perception and physical tolerances.

4. You genuinely believe combat experience has no bearing on whether you're a good fighter pilot.

Guld explicitly states in Macross Plus that he's the only person that can take down the Ghost. It's not because the YF-21 is that much faster and more maneuverable than the YF-19. It's not because he's that much mroe skilled than Isamu(quite the opposite). It's because the YF-21's pilot is operating on an entirely different level than any other human, half-human, or zentradi in the galaxy.

And on that note, I drop it.

BDI and the BCS Advanced Flight system would probably work in the Macross universe with enough research and testing. BDI and BCS in the real world never going to happen!!!

[USCOLMRNE]

Give me a Jolly Rogers CAG VF-11 Thunderbolt with the atmospheric packs(Macross 7 - Operation Stargazer) so I can kick ass on air and space

[JB0]

How about you RESEARCH my comment before you make a comment like that. I said that fighter tactics have been developed in real life enabled American fighters which has lower performance than the Zeroes to win. Tactics that are still applicable today (assuming the air battle even goes into dogfight range).

My point was that this tactic was devised by an aviator (which is obvious, you need real flight experience to know how a plane handles) but outside of a battle and even outside of personal battle experience (he hadn't flown against the Zero yet). It was developed using thought exercises on the premise the enemy fighter had greater maneuverability and climbing ability. And it worked.

You then decided to take the comment completely to its overblown "conclusion" that a military pilot would CERTAINLY be outperformed by a civilian one whereas I meant that a pilot with lots of real experience and great skill might still be matched by one with less experience simply because nobody can possibly have covered all the bases in an arena where the wily rule.

Maybe you should make your rebuttals more relevant, then.

Devising tactics and implementing them in battle are two different things.

I proposed that Isamu's military training and extensive combat experience made him a better combat pilot, not a better thought-exerciser and tactics-deviser.

I personally think that the Ghost's performance in Plus was higher than it normally would be. The AI that took it over seemed to be on a higher order than even the normal bioneural chip.

What exactly is a "normal" bioneural chip?

The only two examples of the technology are the Ghost and Sharon Apple.

And as for the comments about grafting, that's hardly like the BDS where you use it for a few hours and then take it off.

It's an example of a real-world neural interface. And one of the few examples of a complex real-world neural interface.

BDI and the BCS Advanced Flight system would probably work in the Macross universe with enough research and testing. BDI and BCS in the real world never going to happen!!!

You're right. But not for the reason you think.

It won't happen because the military is going to unmanned drones. They're smaller, cheaper, and safer.

The Ghost is winning, folks.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

If we are talking about joy-riding with my wife in the back seat then ---

it would deffinently would have to be a VF-1S 2 seater with adaptable VT-1 FP and Boosters. Small, fast, efficient for most places on earth and i can jet out in space. Love the ability to just float in Gerwalk too, imagine just pulling up in a Marina (concealment) and locking her up for a night and go out for some dinner, or pitch up a tent on the beach. Use of holograms and camo would be a must.

But if i was at war, any war, it would be a VF-1S 2 seater with Strike. I love the size, everything else (besides a Legioss) is too large, i would like to be able to conceal my Valk when needed. You can't fly 24/7 all the time, need a break.

I'd like if the Strike cannon would be converted to some sought of energy beam technology so it could recharge. Don't like the idea of clips and ammo if i'm on the run or solo.

Custom colours of course.

And of course ideally i'd love to have a Ride Armour slapped in the VF-1 there somewhere. Ultimate experience.

Edited January 15, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[Duymon]

I'd fly a VF-1, but one from the Macross Ps2 Game. That way I can have hundreds of missiles and a life bar instead of dying in one shot

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Give me a Jolly Rogers CAG VF-11 Thunderbolt with the atmospheric packs(Macross 7 - Operation Stargazer) so I can kick ass on air and space

The CAG Jolly Rogers VF-11's are awesome, I wouldn't mind flying that or a another CAG bird.

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

I'd fly a VF-1, but one from the Macross Ps2 Game. That way I can have hundreds of missiles and a life bar instead of dying in one shot

Your talking about the VF-1X Plus from Macross VF-X2, I agree it is the ultimate VF-1!!!

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Maybe you should make your rebuttals more relevant, then.

Devising tactics and implementing them in battle are two different things.

I proposed that Isamu's military training and extensive combat experience made him a better combat pilot, not a better thought-exerciser and tactics-deviser.

What exactly is a "normal" bioneural chip?

The only two examples of the technology are the Ghost and Sharon Apple.

It's an example of a real-world neural interface. And one of the few examples of a complex real-world neural interface.

You're right. But not for the reason you think.

It won't happen because the military is going to unmanned drones. They're smaller, cheaper, and safer.

The Ghost is winning, folks.

Yes I was correct on what I stated that the BDI and BCS would not be a functioning piece of Advanced Flight Technology in the real world.

On the topic of UAVS/UCAVS, Yes there the next generation of Military aircraft. But there will not be built with any type of BDI/BCS system.

You forget that even when the pilot has been removed from the airframe. The UAVS/UCAVS will still have a pilot controlling the airframe from a remote control room on some base in the U.S. Fortunately the Military is smart enough not to allow full autonomous control to the UAV/UCAV.

Drones will be assisting Manned air platforms on some jobs that are extremely dangerous here are a list of missions that they will be taking on.

1) SEAD Missions

2) Bombing Missions

3) CAS Missions

4) Reconaissance Missions

5) Wild Weasel Missions

6) CAP missions

In my opinion UAVS/UCAVS are here to stay, but there will be always be a pilot flying these drones. I'm surprised that UN Spacy has not invested in UCAV Variable Fighters.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

I'd fly a VF-1, but one from the Macross Ps2 Game. That way I can have hundreds of missiles and a life bar instead of dying in one shot

Ahh yes video game physics would rule!

I'd be happy with unlimited power source, like a megasuperfunhappyslidemagicalunicorn power source that never runs dry.

The possibilities would be awesome.

Edited January 16, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Ahh yes video game physics would rule!

I'd be happy with unlimited power source, like a megasuperfunhappyslidemagicalunicorn power source that never runs dry.

The possibilities would be awesome.

That would be nice unlimited armament. That only happens in Video games and not on live action animation.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

hehe some anime shows seem to exhibit unlimited firepower arms though... Mospeada was probably the first real anime series that i seen that focused on "limited" ammo and fuel problems. Makes for a more intense series imo.

btw i meant just unlimited fuel/power to jet around. But energy armaments would atleast be able to recharge...

especially when drinking from the "megasuperfunhappyslidemagicalunicorn power source that never runs dry."

:edit:

Edited January 16, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[JB0]

Yes I was correct on what I stated that the BDI and BCS would not be a functioning piece of Advanced Flight Technology in the real world.

On the topic of UAVS/UCAVS, Yes there the next generation of Military aircraft. But there will not be built with any type of BDI/BCS system.

You forget that even when the pilot has been removed from the airframe. The UAVS/UCAVS will still have a pilot controlling the airframe from a remote control room on some base in the U.S. Fortunately the Military is smart enough not to allow full autonomous control to the UAV/UCAV.

Actually, I think it's more a matter of sophisticated AI not being there yet.

I don't think it's a good idea(even without the sci-fi Terminator/MacPlus/Stealth-type insane self-ware AI), but I think that's where we're going.

In my opinion UAVS/UCAVS are here to stay, but there will be always be a pilot flying these drones. I'm surprised that UN Spacy has not invested in UCAV Variable Fighters.

UN Spacey's had combat drones even in the original SDF Macross. Not variable, but...

They just don't get any attention, for the same reason the destroids never get any real attention. The VFs are what it's all about.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Well not sure of the actual Macross term but RT term "first" Ghost was way cool, seeing it take off horizontally and then straight up powering vertically to take out the Fighter Pods was fantastic! I hope that yamato may bring out the X-9 and the original Ghost coz they are without a doubt favs in my book.

The RT term "Lancers" (dual cannon drones) were pretty lame. The dumbest of all drones imo.

Edited January 16, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[JB0]

Well not sure of the actual Macross term but RT term "first" Ghost was way cool, seeing it take off horizontally and then straight up powering vertically to take out the Fighter Pods was fantastic! I hope that yamato may bring out the X-9 and the original Ghost coz they are without a doubt favs in my book.

The RT term "Lancers" (dual cannon drones) were pretty lame. The dumbest of all drones imo.

The Ghost and Lancer names are the same in both franchises, surprisingly.

Ghost seems to be the name for all UNS drones.

And the Lancers are manned fighters.

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Actually, I think it's more a matter of sophisticated AI not being there yet.

I don't think it's a good idea(even without the sci-fi Terminator/MacPlus/Stealth-type insane self-ware AI), but I think that's where we're going.

UN Spacey's had combat drones even in the original SDF Macross. Not variable, but...

They just don't get any attention, for the same reason the destroids never get any real attention. The VFs are what it's all about.

Even with a sophisticated AI, the Military will never give full control of weaponary to AI systems. Man will always be in control over machines!!!

[ruskiiVFaussie]

"... VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK never did quite recover from his relationship with Sharon, after the heart breaking news of his love falling for a dashing New Edwards test pilot.. he decides to take control of his life and now standing strong, sworn off from all dating AI/RI with multiple personalities and a fetish for system/electrical cable...

[USCOLMRNE]

That would be nice unlimited armament. That only happens in Video games and not on live action animation.

well if you take Macross 7 into consideration, there was nearly unlimited VF-11s, missiles, fast packs. Squadrons would go down in seconds thanks to Gavil?(its been a while since I seen M7) but there was always a plane ready for a pilot in the next episode. I am not sure what they had more tho, VF-11's or Bolognize/Guantanomo warships.