Which one of the UN Military Services would you join?

[JB0]

What happened to Patriotism when it comes to serving in the Military for your country or in the Macross universe your planet!!!

?

He's serving his people.

The whole point of the colony missions is that if push comes to shove, there's simply no way that a human race confined to one planet will survive. There's nothing "unpatriotic" about going out on an expeditionary fleet. The Sol system is the equivalent of the New UN Coast Guard. A safe familiar, cushy, no-risk post.

...

Nothing unpatriotic about staying home and making babies either. 'S a vital task to sustain the human race, especially with so many colonies being set up so rapidly.

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

?

He's serving his people.

The whole point of the colony missions is that if push comes to shove, there's simply no way that a human race confined to one planet will survive. There's nothing "unpatriotic" about going out on an expeditionary fleet. The Sol system is the equivalent of the New UN Coast Guard. A safe familiar, cushy, no-risk post.

...

Nothing unpatriotic about staying home and making babies either. 'S a vital task to sustain the human race, especially with so many colonies being set up so rapidly.

Obviously you forget that its Law enforcement, public safety and Soldiers that keep the peace and protect us from evil and give us the freedoms that we treasure so much. In the Macross Universe if its not for these men and women who put themselves in harms way there would be no Planet Earth, no colonies, no Expeditionary Fleets searching for other planets like earth to continue to increase humans survival. What these men and women do is very Honorable and patriotic.

If it was not for the Military you would not be around to be making babies and contribute your part for human survival.

The U.S. Coast Guard or the U.N. Spacy Coast, there job is as dangerous as any other Military service considering there the last line of defense when trying to defend a Nation, Home world or a Colonized Planet.

It sounds like to me that you think the Military is a waste of money and that there is no use for there services. If you studied history at all some form of Military Forces have been around throughout human history and they will be around until humans no longer exist!

[JB0]

Obviously you forget that its Law enforcement, public safety and Soldiers that keep the peace and protect us from evil and give us the freedoms that we treasure so much.

Actually, I didn't.

And I'd be careful about your claims. Law enforcement and protecting freedoms aren't getting along too well lately.

In the Macross Universe if its not for these men and women who put themselves in harms way there would be no Planet Earth, no colonies, no Expeditionary Fleets searching for other planets like earth to continue to increase humans survival. What these men and women do is very Honorable and patriotic.

Never said they weren't.

You said going to defend a colony was unpatriotic.

If it was not for the Military you would not be around to be making babies and contribute your part for human survival.

Arguably... no military = no rebuilt Macross + no reaction weapons = no war with the Zentradi = no need TO rebuild.

The U.S. Coast Guard or the U.N. Spacy Coast, there job is as dangerous as any other Military service considering there the last line of defense when trying to defend a Nation, Home world or a Colonized Planet.

I dunno.... the colonies don't have giant shells of assault satellites around them.

The Earth forces have it a LOT easier than the colonies. Just like the US Coast Guard has it a LOT easier than the rest of the armed forces, and everyone but you knows it.

Things are actually more drastic in Macross, since the colonies are semi-autonomous. A colony may have to make do with VF-7s while the Earth forces are playing with their shiny new VF-19s, just because the colony can't afford the new planes.

It sounds like to me that you think the Military is a waste of money and that there is no use for there services.

Way to make completely unfounded assumptions.

All I said was that serving away from the homeworld wasn't unpatriotic.

But what would I know? I'm just a mindless sheep. Baaaaaaaa! Baaaaaaa!

Of course, I'm a sheep that gets to order the sheepdogs around instead of vice-versa. So.... hooray for sheep!

If you studied history at all some form of Military Forces have been around throughout human history and they will be around until humans no longer exist!

Ug say you am wrong! Ug say caveman no have army! Caveman just poke mammoth with stick 'til dead!

You've got a serious chip on your shoulder.

I'd recommend putting it away and not taking every comment as a slur against the military.

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Actually, I didn't.

And I'd be careful about your claims. Law enforcement and protecting freedoms aren't getting along too well lately.

Never said they weren't.

You said going to defend a colony was unpatriotic.

Arguably... no military = no rebuilt Macross + no reaction weapons = no war with the Zentradi = no need TO rebuild.

I dunno.... the colonies don't have giant shells of assault satellites around them.

The Earth forces have it a LOT easier than the colonies. Just like the US Coast Guard has it a LOT easier than the rest of the armed forces, and everyone but you knows it.

Things are actually more drastic in Macross, since the colonies are semi-autonomous. A colony may have to make do with VF-7s while the Earth forces are playing with their shiny new VF-19s, just because the colony can't afford the new planes.

Way to make completely unfounded assumptions.

All I said was that serving away from the homeworld wasn't unpatriotic.

But what would I know? I'm just a mindless sheep. Baaaaaaaa! Baaaaaaa!

Of course, I'm a sheep that gets to order the sheepdogs around instead of vice-versa. So.... hooray for sheep!

Ug say you am wrong! Ug say caveman no have army! Caveman just poke mammoth with stick 'til dead!

You've got a serious chip on your shoulder.

I'd recommend putting it away and not taking every comment as a slur against the military.

Obviously you think we all live in this black and white world, unfortunately there is this gray area that people like you don't know about or don't care to know about and are in denial of its existance, I'll let you figure that one out!!!

The US Coast Guards role has changed alot since 9/11 and there job is no more dangerous then any other military service and believe me there job is not easy not by a long shot.

Cops are not bad people its the corrupt police officers that give the rest of us a bad name.

I come from a long heritage of service men in my family and I don't politely taking any type of bashing against The Military or Law Enforcement!!!!

About the Statement of you being a mindless sheep, you are what you make yourself to be!!!

[JB0]

Obviously you think we all live in this black and white world, unfortunately there is this gray area that people like you don't know about or don't care to know about and are in denial of its existance, I'll let you figure that one out!!!

Another wild assumption with no basis in fact.

Cops are not bad people its the corrupt police officers that give the rest of us a bad name.

Not what I was talking about.

I come from a long heritage of service men in my family and I don't politely taking any type of bashing against The Military or Law Enforcement!!!!

That's great. Maybe you should find a place where bashing is happening before you start griping about it.

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Another wild assumption with no basis in fact.

Not what I was talking about.

That's great. Maybe you should find a place where bashing is happening before you start griping about it.

I'm in a Law Enforcement profession where I see alot of the Gray area. You have know idea what I and my fellow brothers and sisters in Law Enforcement do day in and day out or what we deal with everyday. We are on the front lines on the city streets dealing with societies problems and the criminal element.

If I told you what I deal with on a daily basis you would be sick to your Stomach!!!!

So then what did you mean that Law Enforcement and Protecting freedoms are not getting along?

On the Topic of the U.S. Coast Guard not being in harms way. These men and woman are instrutmental in securing are ports and U.S. Coasts from Drug smugglers and Terrorists. The Coast Guard is also serving in Operation Iraqi Freedom as coastal Force Protection in the region. Just to let you know this is not the first time the Coast Guard has seen combat, they also served in the Vietnam War.

[RichterX]

what happen to this thread?

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

what happen to this thread?

Hi-Jacked by JBO!!! Enough with all the BS and lets return to the topic at hand shall we!!!!

[JB0]

I'm in a Law Enforcement profession where I see alot of the Gray area. You have know idea what I and my fellow brothers and sisters in Law Enforcement do day in and day out or what we deal with everyday. We are on the front lines on the city streets dealing with societies problems and the criminal element.

If I told you what I deal with on a daily basis you would be sick to your Stomach!!!!

So then what did you mean that Law Enforcement and Protecting freedoms are not getting along?

I mean laws passed on federal, state, and local levels that erode the rights of US citizens, most commonly their right to privacy.

Warrantless wiretaps being a commonly-publicized one, but far from the only one.

Hi-Jacked by JBO!!! Enough with all the BS and lets return to the topic at hand shall we!!!!

Bull. You're sitting there slurring other people because you're looking for anti-military comments to get offended over where none exist, and blaming me because I have the audacity to call you on it.

[Macross_Fanboy]

Dadgumit!

Me say this thread is funny. Me read enough. How about real military man poke big military mammoth with stick? Me in US Navy, gray area is not so gray. Me do a lot of BS just to get yell at by more primitive people....I am smarter than most people I work with and work for. You can compare some things in the military just as easily if you think outside of the box, which in the Navy means from a "non-lifer" POV. You wanna know what I gotta go through in my 12+ hour work day out to sea? Or my 8+ work day in port? Lemme see...I sit in my shop, sometimes get yelled at for what the airmen do, then get yelled at for doing my job correctly, then when that is done, go do more, and then at some point we gotta go clean shiters, since I like to do things myself, because I believe in doing things myself to get them done right, I get in there and clean the shiters with the bootcamps. Then I get yelled at for not standing around supervising the cleaning of said shiters. On top of that then I gotta sit around on my ass all damn day waiting for my supervisors to realize their wives are not home or that they even have a family to let us off, but that's not before being yelled at because we all get pissed off for getting dicked around after we do so much work in so little time. And then, after all the yelling is done with, they like to say, "We really appreciate all the work you guys do." Then some said supervisors want to come up to me and say, "Let's go out drinking this weekend! Come watch me cheat on my wife, FRIEND WHO I JUST CALLED THE BIGGEST PIECE OF CRAP IN THE NAVY!" That's just in port, out to sea I can't even go to my "nest" as my girlfriend calls it without them whining about something, they are a bunch of kids that don't know what they want and can't really help you at all unless you show some indication that you want to reenlist. And ontop of that, much like VF-7k seems to assume of JBO, if I am doing something not Navy-related, it will be their image of me, one is that they think I play games all the time when in reality, I'm not the guy with the PSP trying to get a bunch of old PS1 games on my memory stick or don't have a 54+ wallet full of games or even buy games without thinking about it, turning out to hating the game and giving it away for free. A bunch of unfair assumptions just like officer VF-7k is doing. So...are you reading VF? Sure, the Navy and military can offer good benefits, but you know what? **** the Navy and the military today. I approve of sensible military actions, none of which are sensible today. The Navy doesn't even feel like the military, take it back to the 90s and even earlier, then you'd be in a real military. I talked to a bunch of salty dogs that do contracting for the Navy and whom I work with, and I'd rather go out to sea in their days when $54 was base pay for third class POs. The military isn't all hyped up. JBO is right, things like the Homeland Sec. Act don't really help defend our rights. Stop making a bunch of assumptions VF. It's better that JBO be a sheep instead of tool which many people become when they stay in the military as their only means of income because they haven't done anything to help them in the civilian world and whom would like to do the same to you. The military isn't all hyped up as you make it VF. How about you have a cup of "shatta?"

Now, I'd like to be on part of the repopulation center so my little soldiers can grow up to be bad-ass VF pilots. I just gotta make sure to take the lucky female to the geneticist to fix up the vision chromosones.

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

I mean laws passed on federal, state, and local levels that erode the rights of US citizens, most commonly their right to privacy.

Warrantless wiretaps being a commonly-publicized one, but far from the only one.

Bull. You're sitting there slurring other people because you're looking for anti-military comments to get offended over where none exist, and blaming me because I have the audacity to call you on it.

Obviously you must have something to hide from the US Intelligance community if your so worried about your privacy.

You need to stop watching and listening to all that BS that media broadcasts on the Wiretapping and on the War on Terrorism. As it is all they do is bad mouth the efforts of US Intelligance and the US Military fighting the War on Terror. Then on top of that they are Dishonring the Men and Woman of the U.S. Military and U.S. Intelligance who have served, who are currently serving and who have died for what they believe in and what there fighting for .

Do you really think if the U.S. pulled out our soldiers out of there along with Intelligance Agents that they won't stop attacking us, they will just bring the fight to us. Why do you think we are over there we took the fight to them so we won't be fighting them in our own backyard.

What you need to realize is that the Patriot Act gives the US Intelligance community any means necessary to Spy on Terrorist cells and there collaborators. The Patriot act is not to be used for anything else except for the use of tracking down and spying on Terrorist cells. If wasn't for the Patriot Act, the CIA along with the other US Intelligance agencies they would not have stopped other major terrorist attacks on U.S. soil.

Yes, There has been incidents where a innocent U.S. citizen was spied on and arrested for being associated with or collaborating with a Terrorist cell and then later finding out they are innocent. Thats unfortunate that stuff like that happens, but thats considered as Collateral Damage and it probably won't be the last time something like that happens again.

The day the U.S. Government and the U.S. Intelligance community abuse the Patriot Act to spy on all U.S. citizens. Is when U.S. citizens will not trust there Government and that will be the biggest betrayal that they could do to the citizens of the USA.

You just said it, your the one that is Anti-Military pal!!!

Edited January 21, 2008 by VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Dadgumit!

Me say this thread is funny. Me read enough. How about real military man poke big military mammoth with stick? Me in US Navy, gray area is not so gray. Me do a lot of BS just to get yell at by more primitive people....I am smarter than most people I work with and work for. You can compare some things in the military just as easily if you think outside of the box, which in the Navy means from a "non-lifer" POV. You wanna know what I gotta go through in my 12+ hour work day out to sea? Or my 8+ work day in port? Lemme see...I sit in my shop, sometimes get yelled at for what the airmen do, then get yelled at for doing my job correctly, then when that is done, go do more, and then at some point we gotta go clean shiters, since I like to do things myself, because I believe in doing things myself to get them done right, I get in there and clean the shiters with the bootcamps. Then I get yelled at for not standing around supervising the cleaning of said shiters. On top of that then I gotta sit around on my ass all damn day waiting for my supervisors to realize their wives are not home or that they even have a family to let us off, but that's not before being yelled at because we all get pissed off for getting dicked around after we do so much work in so little time. And then, after all the yelling is done with, they like to say, "We really appreciate all the work you guys do." Then some said supervisors want to come up to me and say, "Let's go out drinking this weekend! Come watch me cheat on my wife, FRIEND WHO I JUST CALLED THE BIGGEST PIECE OF CRAP IN THE NAVY!" That's just in port, out to sea I can't even go to my "nest" as my girlfriend calls it without them whining about something, they are a bunch of kids that don't know what they want and can't really help you at all unless you show some indication that you want to reenlist. And ontop of that, much like VF-7k seems to assume of JBO, if I am doing something not Navy-related, it will be their image of me, one is that they think I play games all the time when in reality, I'm not the guy with the PSP trying to get a bunch of old PS1 games on my memory stick or don't have a 54+ wallet full of games or even buy games without thinking about it, turning out to hating the game and giving it away for free. A bunch of unfair assumptions just like officer VF-7k is doing. So...are you reading VF? Sure, the Navy and military can offer good benefits, but you know what? **** the Navy and the military today. I approve of sensible military actions, none of which are sensible today. The Navy doesn't even feel like the military, take it back to the 90s and even earlier, then you'd be in a real military. I talked to a bunch of salty dogs that do contracting for the Navy and whom I work with, and I'd rather go out to sea in their days when $54 was base pay for third class POs. The military isn't all hyped up. JBO is right, things like the Homeland Sec. Act don't really help defend our rights. Stop making a bunch of assumptions VF. It's better that JBO be a sheep instead of tool which many people become when they stay in the military as their only means of income because they haven't done anything to help them in the civilian world and whom would like to do the same to you. The military isn't all hyped up as you make it VF. How about you have a cup of "shatta?"

Now, I'd like to be on part of the repopulation center so my little soldiers can grow up to be bad-ass VF pilots. I just gotta make sure to take the lucky female to the geneticist to fix up the vision chromosones.

The only thing that I got to say to you is, I understand where your coming from in more ways then you think!!!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Obviously you forget that its Law enforcement, public safety and Soldiers that keep the peace and protect us from evil and give us the freedoms that we treasure so much. In the Macross Universe if its not for these men and women who put themselves in harms way there would be no Planet Earth, no colonies, no Expeditionary Fleets searching for other planets like earth to continue to increase humans survival. What these men and women do is very Honorable and patriotic.

If it was not for the Military you would not be around to be making babies and contribute your part for human survival.

The U.S. Coast Guard or the U.N. Spacy Coast, there job is as dangerous as any other Military service considering there the last line of defense when trying to defend a Nation, Home world or a Colonized Planet.

It sounds like to me that you think the Military is a waste of money and that there is no use for there services. If you studied history at all some form of Military Forces have been around throughout human history and they will be around until humans no longer exist!

Yeah but the human military got its butt kicked (world was destroyed) by the alien's military though. And almost lost to the Anti-un military. So the military fails at protecting people 50% of the time right? That's why Global sent misa to go and run from earth to find more places to plant humans so that if the human military lost in the next wave of attacks that we'd still be able to continue. Kinda like how the hobbits in lord of the rings were told to run like the wind to get away from the sauron army who is way too tough to fight. It may seem cowardly for a little guy to hide and stuff, but survival/safety is more important than medals sometimes! It is because the military is obsessed with trying to obtain more power that they might not want to admit they could lose. In SDF:M when minmay is impressed that they fought the aliens and beat the crap out of them, hikaru has to correct her and tell her that the casualties you heard on the PA system are worse than that, but you had to be lied to so you will feel happy.

Ultimately the only solution is to conquer every enemy with fear and create a benevolent empire like the one in star wars to ensure eternal happiness for all beings in the universe using the military so people don't have to die. The zeon in gundam and the empire in star wars are the real good guys. Peace through enslavement is the only solution as mankind loves to kill things just like the wild animals in the jungle which fight for survival against other animals to feed its young and continue. "Survival of th fittest" as darwin would put it. The zentradi only joined the human race because they knew they would get killed by thier leader for being contaminated. So he is doing what he needs to survive.

It's only a matter of time before Britai turns against the humans in a Char like moment of revenge and shouts: "this is for killing my brothers in space who although "rogue" zentradi, are innocent because of the mind control. Death to all human enslavers who are just using us to do their menial tasks like carrying heavy rocks from one place to another when they could be using destroids! We must fight for independance!" And of course exedol would follow the aliens side, being angry at pilots like Isamu Dyson for stabbing zentradi in the guts with his bayonet so savagely when he could have sung a song to them. And milia as usual being angry at not fighting because he is the wife of max, will go back to being a rogue zentradi annoyed that humans are not fighting enough and that as a race it is getting weaker and weaker as it loses practice.

That will be the next cataclysm (space war II) where humans and zentradi must fight each other for control to protect the freedom of their own kind in an epic war that will bring about the end of the world. (universe I mean. The PC version of "armageddon") Unlike space war I the zentradi are just as smart as the humans this time so it will be an even fight. Singing will be banned by the zentradi, and humans will all have to be macronised and use human-made powered suits, to even the odds against the aliens. Every peaceful planet will be ravaged by war and innocent aliens races will be drawn into it whether they like to fight or not. That will be like *outer heaven fantasised about by elite soldiers who fight as a hobby.

*reference to metal gear where the war is an excuse to keep the soldiers in business.

Edited January 21, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

Obviously you must have something to hide from the US Intelligance community if your so worried about your privacy.

Yes. that's exactly it. I'm an operative of Al-Quada. You've found me out. Now I will bomb your house. Hail Bin Laden.

I really think that statement speaks for itself. I see no need to deal with it in a remotely serious manner. I could probably ignore the entire rest of this pile of lies and insults and just leave that statement sitting there to shame you. But I'm going to plow ahead anyways.

You need to stop watching and listening to all that BS that media broadcasts on the Wiretapping and on the War on Terrorism. As it is all they do is bad mouth the efforts of US Intelligance and the US Military fighting the War on Terror. Then on top of that they are Dishonring the Men and Woman of the U.S. Military and U.S. Intelligance who have served, who are currently serving and who have died for what they believe in and what there fighting for .

Do you really think if the U.S. pulled out our soldiers out of there along with Intelligance Agents that they won't stop attacking us, they will just bring the fight to us. Why do you think we are over there we took the fight to them so we won't be fighting them in our own backyard.

More wild assumptions with no basis in fact. And a few blind zealous lies thrown in on top of it.

I watch TV news for laughs, not real coverage. You can't adequately cover an issue in the pathetic soundbites of space granted TV news.

Hell, you can't adequately cover an issue in the few-pages spread a large newspaper article gets.

I SUPPORTED the invasion of Iraq. Not on grounds of ZOMG TERRARIST!111, but on grounds of "Saddam Hussein is a sick, sadistic man and needs to be removed from power." I have subsequently been embarrassed by the mishandling of the war and occupation. But I still believe that the invasion was the right idea, just implemented very wrongly.

And while it is clearly NOT going according to plan, I strongly advocate a continued military presence because... let's face it, things would be even MORE in the crapper if we pulled out and left things to descend further into anarchy. It's too late to stop now, and has been ever since we took Baghdad.

BTW... Iraq isn't part of the "war on terror." There were, and still are, no credible links between Hussein's regime and international terrorism.

What you need to realize is that the Patriot Act gives the US Intelligance community any means necessary to Spy on Terrorist cells and there collaborators. The Patriot act is not to be used for anything else except for the use of tracking down and spying on Terrorist cells. If wasn't for the Patriot Act, the CIA along with the other US Intelligance agencies they would not have stopped other major terrorist attacks on U.S. soil.

Actually, no clause of the PATRIOT act has been used in the investigation of a terrorism suspect. The broad powers it granted were only used against US citizens with no known ties to any terrorist organizations, explicitly in violation of the promises made by US intelligence agencies to get these powers granted (or reinstated, in some cases).

It's a rehash of the things that got wiretapping so heavily restricted in the first place.

And despite one highly visible failure, the government has proven remarkably good at stopping terrorist attacks WITHOUT these powers.

The only good thing about the PATRIOT act is that the powers it granted had clearly defined sunset periods, and those dates have come and gone without extension in most cases.

Yes, There has been incidents where a innocent U.S. citizen was spied on and arrested for being associated with or collaborating with a Terrorist cell and then later finding out they are innocent. Thats unfortunate that stuff like that happens, but thats considered as Collateral Damage and it probably won't be the last time something like that happens again.

Amendment 4

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment 5

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment 6

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

The above paragraphs are not idealist concepts. They are calculated responses to abuses of the people by a government that was supposed to be protecting them, and were crafted to prevent the government that followed from abusing it's people in a similar manner. They have been proven necessary multiple times in this nation's history.

Yes, we could probably stop a lot more crimes, of all types, without such nagging trifles as due process and innocent until proven guilty, but AT WHAT COST?

What you call "collateral damage" I call gross irresponsibility and unconstitutional.

The prison in Guantanamo shames me deeply as a US citizen.

It should do so to everyone. Sadly, it's easier to turn the other way and ignore it.

For the record, in my area we're busy re-investigating and overturning thousands of convictions by a district attorney that shared your view of the law.

The DA office under his tenure operated under the belief that everyone was guilty of something, and that a conviction by any means was acceptable.

The end result was a huge number of people railroaded into jail for crimes they never committed.

Some of them may in fact be guilty, but will get out anyways because a crooked DA office tainted their case so badly that it's not possible to prove the point.

The day the U.S. Government and the U.S. Intelligance community abuse the Patriot Act to spy on all U.S. citizens. Is when U.S. citizens will not trust there Government and that will be the biggest betrayal that they could do to the citizens of the USA.

Oh, well that's okay then. I'm pretty sure the heads of the CIA and FBI don't have wiretaps on their personal lines.

Check into Hoover's tenure as FBI director. It's a large part of what got wiretaps so restricted in the first place.

You just said it, your the one that is Anti-Military pal!!!

Wrong. I made no Chuck Norris jokes, and that was established early on in this thread as the gold standard for anti-military propaganda.

I have, as of yet, not made a single anti-military comment. Except in your deluded fantasies where I'm burning soldiers in effigy.

I feel a mixture of pity and envy for you.

I pity you for your stupidity, which is shamelessly displayed for the world to see.

And I envy your naivete, which is evident in your belief that constitutional restrictions on law enforcement are un-needed and only the bad guys have any reason to worry about them.

Barring any tremendously offensive instances of slander against me, I'll be dropping this now. It's worth arguing, but this isn't the place.

[Mr March]

Obviously you must have something to hide from the US Intelligance community if your so worried about your privacy.

Wow. This cluelessness implied by this statement can only be described as impressive

I really think that statement speaks for itself.

Oh, my dear JBO, you've made the understatement of the year In fact, it may be the most ridiculous statement ever written in the history of Macross World. And anyone who knows the history of our fair message board will appreciate that opinion

Edited January 22, 2008 by Mr March

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Yeah I don't really buy that line of reasoning that "if you care about privacy, you must have something to hide. Eh? So now you must be a terrorist"

I counter that with: Well if you are not guilty of anything and there is no reason to suspect, why the loss of the privacy?

Yes, we could probably stop a lot more crimes, of all types, without such nagging trifles as due process and innocent until proven guilty, but AT WHAT COST?

What you call "collateral damage" I call gross irresponsibility and unconstitutional.

A good anime example of this is Zeta Gundam. Although the Feddies (who represent the americans) are the good guys from the One Year War and the Zeon (nazis) were the bad guys (from the one year war), it was the annoying Titans (who didn't care about the rules) whose abuses of their position that the public are worried about. Once they get drunk on their own newly granted powers, and turn it against the people who created them, that is no longer a free people. It's as bad as the zeon dictatorship which rules by fear, people who fear its own government. (things weren't always like that though as we find out later in gundam 0079 and see char getting sweet revenge)

Watch gundam, and then zeta gundam. The cruel Titan's were formed after the events of gundam 0083 when 1 patriotic zeon was able to outsmart the federation and this led to the forming of the titans. (specialise in hunting down Anival Gato-like terrorists due to the events seen in Gundam 0083 where he stole the nuked-equiped gundam) What results is the true good guys later had to seperate themselves from the bad guys within their own side because of this abuse of power on innocent people who just want peace. The only way to ensure the freedoms of innocent people are protected is when there are proper balances and checks (the rules were there for a reason and necessary) so people don't have to live in fear of their own land becoming like a new version of a zeon nazi style government. (where any kind of protest or dissent leads to killing off anyone who doesn't agree with the popular views) Those freedoms (to disagree, to speak freely, so long as no law is broken and no harm is done) were what actually seperates the good guy (feddies) from the bad guy. (zeon)

Edited January 22, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

DP

Edited January 22, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Macross_Fanboy]

Well, JBO, you don't dishonor me by saying the Patriot Act and Homeland Sec, and the What-are-you-doing-in-the-bathroom Act are all bad for the American people. And as me being of military background, not a civil defense-type like the other guy here, I don't find any of your statements anti-military at all. The only thing that makes me mad about people dogging the military is when they say the military is no good at all and all we do is make war and nothing else, but when a natural disaster strikes, the military is helping the people in need like when Katrina strook. It's kinda like how Kaifun felt about the military, but after Hikaru saved his hippy-ass he silently admitted to himself that perhaps military-types aren't bad people or bad organizations after all. Also, it's good that they bash the intel community, it's because of them that wars are started by either witholding information or not providing enough which has happened recently. Anyways...this VF-7k reminds me of one dude I came to know at another board a few years back and that fella was really something...

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Yes. that's exactly it. I'm an operative of Al-Quada. You've found me out. Now I will bomb your house. Hail Bin Laden.

I really think that statement speaks for itself. I see no need to deal with it in a remotely serious manner. I could probably ignore the entire rest of this pile of lies and insults and just leave that statement sitting there to shame you. But I'm going to plow ahead anyways.

More wild assumptions with no basis in fact. And a few blind zealous lies thrown in on top of it.

I watch TV news for laughs, not real coverage. You can't adequately cover an issue in the pathetic soundbites of space granted TV news.

Hell, you can't adequately cover an issue in the few-pages spread a large newspaper article gets.

I SUPPORTED the invasion of Iraq. Not on grounds of ZOMG TERRARIST!111, but on grounds of "Saddam Hussein is a sick, sadistic man and needs to be removed from power." I have subsequently been embarrassed by the mishandling of the war and occupation. But I still believe that the invasion was the right idea, just implemented very wrongly.

And while it is clearly NOT going according to plan, I strongly advocate a continued military presence because... let's face it, things would be even MORE in the crapper if we pulled out and left things to descend further into anarchy. It's too late to stop now, and has been ever since we took Baghdad.

BTW... Iraq isn't part of the "war on terror." There were, and still are, no credible links between Hussein's regime and international terrorism.

Actually, no clause of the PATRIOT act has been used in the investigation of a terrorism suspect. The broad powers it granted were only used against US citizens with no known ties to any terrorist organizations, explicitly in violation of the promises made by US intelligence agencies to get these powers granted (or reinstated, in some cases).

It's a rehash of the things that got wiretapping so heavily restricted in the first place.

And despite one highly visible failure, the government has proven remarkably good at stopping terrorist attacks WITHOUT these powers.

The only good thing about the PATRIOT act is that the powers it granted had clearly defined sunset periods, and those dates have come and gone without extension in most cases.

Amendment 4

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment 5

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment 6

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

The above paragraphs are not idealist concepts. They are calculated responses to abuses of the people by a government that was supposed to be protecting them, and were crafted to prevent the government that followed from abusing it's people in a similar manner. They have been proven necessary multiple times in this nation's history.

Yes, we could probably stop a lot more crimes, of all types, without such nagging trifles as due process and innocent until proven guilty, but AT WHAT COST?

What you call "collateral damage" I call gross irresponsibility and unconstitutional.

The prison in Guantanamo shames me deeply as a US citizen.

It should do so to everyone. Sadly, it's easier to turn the other way and ignore it.

For the record, in my area we're busy re-investigating and overturning thousands of convictions by a district attorney that shared your view of the law.

The DA office under his tenure operated under the belief that everyone was guilty of something, and that a conviction by any means was acceptable.

The end result was a huge number of people railroaded into jail for crimes they never committed.

Some of them may in fact be guilty, but will get out anyways because a crooked DA office tainted their case so badly that it's not possible to prove the point.

Oh, well that's okay then. I'm pretty sure the heads of the CIA and FBI don't have wiretaps on their personal lines.

Check into Hoover's tenure as FBI director. It's a large part of what got wiretaps so restricted in the first place.

Wrong. I made no Chuck Norris jokes, and that was established early on in this thread as the gold standard for anti-military propaganda.

I have, as of yet, not made a single anti-military comment. Except in your deluded fantasies where I'm burning soldiers in effigy.

I feel a mixture of pity and envy for you.

I pity you for your stupidity, which is shamelessly displayed for the world to see.

And I envy your naivete, which is evident in your belief that constitutional restrictions on law enforcement are un-needed and only the bad guys have any reason to worry about them.

Barring any tremendously offensive instances of slander against me, I'll be dropping this now. It's worth arguing, but this isn't the place.

Whatever you say pal!!!!

[EXO]

politics.