The Ultimate Macross Variable Fighter!

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Two to three SECONDS?

I assume you don't mean in a dogfight.

While I have and do maintain that the BCS would allow greater reaction times, I don't think you'll see THAT large a difference in pure time.

The larger advantage comes from the ready availability of data in an easily-processed form, allowing better-informed decisions to be made.

And instant access to a wider variety of controls.

To take the pinpoint barrier system as an example:

On the Y/VF-19 or VF-22, the barrier disks can't be easily relocated in combat. Essentially, you'll place them on the most tactically useful spots and just tough it out(in Macross 7, you can see this quite readily, as in battroid mode Basara's disks are focused on his arm shield).

On the YF-21, the barrier disks, like everything else, are an extension of the pilot's will. They go where he says to, when he says to.

If a missile is headed for the cockpit, a barrier disk can slide over there and intercept it, while another one slips another direction to catch a laser aimed at an engine intake.

I seriously doubt the technology was abandoned. I'd bet it's still in development. It has entirely too much promise to ignore.

With the removal of BCS and variable camber wings, the VF-22 is not much different from a great number of VFs.

I thought the Pinpoint Barrier system on the VF-22 was automated by the VF sensor fusion computer system!

Edited January 7, 2008 by VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK

[azrael]

The VF-22 may not have beam cannons, but it has pulse lasers and carry carry at least two nukes. Who knows if they can add external mounts for even more reaction weaponry carnage?

The VF-22 does have beam cannons.

Two converging energy cannons with forward and rearward barrels mounted underneath tail stabilizers in Fighter mode or in the lower arm section in GERWALK and Fighter modes.

[wolfx]

The VF-22 does have beam cannons.

You're both talking about the same things.

I think he meant cannons as big kahuna gun. XD

[macrossvf-1msx]

VF-22 Sturmvogel II

VF-19 Excalibur

Metal Siren

VF-1 Valkerie\VF-0 Phoenix

VF-4 Lightning III

VF-11 Thunderbolt III

VF-17 Nightmare

VF-2SS equipped with SAP system

Edited January 7, 2008 by macrossvf-1msx

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

The BDI/BCS proved too unstable and susceptible to pilot's mental well being and thus was not implemented. Besides you need "newtype"-ish powers and reaction time to use it like how JBO explained like moving PPB to cockpits and what not. Besides the main use for the BDI/BCS was the "morphing wings" which was entirely concept and not meant to be implemented in the final production due to costs and also excluded from the VF-22.

The BDI/BCS flight control system was mainly made for Zentradi Pilots, the human brain was not exactly made for this type of flight control system. The Variable Camber wing or Morphing Wings does not need the BDI/BCS it still can be controlled by the Digital Flight computer. But that doesn't mean General Galaxy and UN Spacey are not continuing research on the BDI/BCS Advanced Flight control system.

Edited January 7, 2008 by VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK

[azrael]

I think he meant cannons as big kahuna gun. XD

That's an accessory. BFGs are not standard equipment.

[azrael]

The BDI/BCS flight control system was mainly made for Zentradi Pilots, the human brain was not exactly made for this type of flight control system.

Where does it say this?

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

I like to thank the moderator for adding the VF-2SS and the VF-MS, they were meant not to be part of this poll!!!

The VF-2SS and the VF-MS are part of a altenate Macross Timeline!!!

[wolfx]

The BDI/BCS flight control system was mainly made for Zentradi Pilots, the human brain was not exactly made for this type of flight control system. The Variable Camber wing or Morphing Wings does not need the BDI/BCS it still can be controlled by the Digital Flight computer. But that doesn't mean General Galaxy and UN Spacey are not continuing research on the BDI/BCS Advanced Flight control system.

State your sources.

And don't tell me its from Palladium RPG books.

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Where does it say this?

Macross Mecha Designs.

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

State your sources.

And don't tell me its from Palladium RPG books.

Everyone has there sources, mine is Macross Mecha Designs.

[JB0]

The BDI/BCS proved too unstable and susceptible to pilot's mental well being and thus was not implemented. Besides you need "newtype"-ish powers and reaction time to use it like how JBO explained like moving PPB to cockpits and what not.

We don't really know the BCS was unstable.

The only test pilot was a civilian with known mental illnesses, and likely would've been taken off the project immediately if it hadn't been covered up.

And the BDI system gives you the kind of advanced preception of a "newtype"

That's the point.

The BDI/BCS flight control system was mainly made for Zentradi Pilots, the human brain was not exactly made for this type of flight control system. The Variable Camber wing or Morphing Wings does not need the BDI/BCS it still can be controlled by the Digital Flight computer. But that doesn't mean General Galaxy and UN Spacey are not continuing research on the BDI/BCS Advanced Flight control system.

The vairable camber wings may not require BCS, but they were removed from the VF-22.

Macross Mecha Designs.

That's.... WORSE than Palladium RPG books. That's not even official Robotech material.

Official english-language sources = Macross Compendium and Macross Compendium.

All other english-language sources are unofficial, and therefore don't count. Especially when they're making stuff up like MMD is.

I appreciate MMD's goal of adapting ore modern VFs to the Macross2/Robotech RPG. But it's a lousy source outside of that goal.

Edited January 7, 2008 by JB0

[azrael]

Everyone has there sources, mine is Macross Mecha Designs.

You might as well have said Palladium RPG books. MMD is a RPG website. The stats there are designed for an RPG game. And even MMD doesn't say the BCS/BDI was made for Zentradi.

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

We don't really know the BCS was unstable.

The only test pilot was a civilian with known mental illnesses, and likely would've been taken off the project immediately if it hadn't been covered up.

And the BDI system gives you the kind of advanced preception of a "newtype"

That's the point.

The vairable camber wings may not require BCS, but they were removed from the VF-22.

That's.... WORSE than Palladium RPG books. That's not even official Robotech material.

Official english-language sources = Macross Compendium and Macross Compendium.

All other english-language sources are unofficial, and therefore don't count. Especially when they're making stuff up like MMD is.

I appreciate MMD's goal of adapting ore modern VFs to the Macross2/Robotech RPG. But it's a lousy source outside of that goal.

Even though Macross Mecha Designs is not a Official site for info like Macross Compendium, but instead a RPG site.

They do have more info then Macross Compendium in my point of view.

[JB0]

Even though Macross Mecha Designs is not a Official site for info like Macross Compendium, but instead a RPG site.

They do have more info then Macross Compendium in my point of view.

And it's all completely unofficial. It's totally irrelevant.

I could set up a site claiming the YF-21 had quantum armor and an espresso machine, and was powered by the GUTS of the pilot. That wouldn't make it at all a credible source.

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

And it's all completely unofficial. It's totally irrelevant.

I could set up a site claiming the YF-21 had quantum armor and an espresso machine, and was powered by the GUTS of the pilot. That wouldn't make it at all a credible source.

Settle down Amigo everyone has there own right to there own opinion. Lets get back to the topic on this tread shall we!!!

Edited January 7, 2008 by VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK

[Mr March]

Well in all fairness, azrael did warn you VF-7000. Hell, even I sometimes get flak for the small unofficial portions of my website. It's best to stick to Egan's Macross Compendium whenever debating a specific point about Macross since it's the definitive english reference on the subject. That's why it's there.

[wolfx]

We don't really know the BCS was unstable.

The only test pilot was a civilian with known mental illnesses, and likely would've been taken off the project immediately if it hadn't been covered up.

"PROGRAMME: VF-22 developed from General Galaxy YF-21 design after UN Forces' decision not to adopt the earlier design as the main variable fighter in the Super Nova (AVF) competition. Brainwave control system not implemented in VF-22 design due to test results on the YF-21 in the Super Nova competition. Decision made to adopt VF-22S as special operations fighter successor to General Galaxy VF-17 2042 December. Two fighters used in final stages of Protodeviln War 2046 February. "

But according to compendium (zomg i've become a compendium zealot) that the BCS was taken off from the VF-22 due to results of the Supernova project. It probably meant the BCS didn't perform as well as it was expected to. And if something like a "neurochemical imbalance" (which seriously can mean anything from PMS to depression) can adversely affect the valk's performance, I'd consider it unstable.

I wouldn't say Guld had "mental illness" but he has the whole Zentran Rage thing going on for him.

But it would indeed be interesting if the development of the BCS and BDI continued.

Settle down Amigo everyone has there own right to there own opinion. Lets get back to the topic on this tread shall we!!!

It would definately help if you didn't take unofficial sources as fact though. Welcome to Macrossworld.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Ultimate vf is the SDF-1. Without it you'd have nothing to fight the zentradi with. Originally it was controlled by a giant artificial brain and in ancient times was a voltron style combiner robot which is how the humans ripped the idea off of making it transform into a giant humanoid shaped battleship.

The scientists were messaged telepathically through dreams while they took special PC drugs to create the transforming fighter. But because humans couldn't save the giant *brain inside which controlled the ship they decided to treat it like a micronised battleship instead of a fighter for a race of giants. (the main gun is tiny to these particular giants and the zentradi are only a little bit less puny)

If you thought bodolza and britai was huge then you haven't seen the real giants. (designed to survive any hostile planets' climate - worshipped as creator gods by all the various alien races that witnessed them in ancient time. They were beaten by the Protodevils and were never seen again and the people who created them are at the centre of the galaxy)

source: me

*similar to the holy floating head in Macross zero. It's thoughts became reality so parts of the ASS-1 would react with instant speed using telekinesis to help move the limbs. A bit like sharon apple after she "possessed" the ship in macross plus but even more accurate because the movements were not robotic or mechanical. (the ultimate mind machine interface - a giant "cyborg" for long distance space travel) Humans will probably need to reverse engineer the biomechanical technology of the insects in Macross F if they want to be able to recreate the original ASS-1 technology.

Oh and the firing of the main gun in the first episode of SDF:M which started SW I was not a booby trap set to go off. The ghost of the dead brain manipulated the computer to fire the shot. Nobody really confirmed it was actually set up by the former crew of the ship/giant transformable anti-gravity space fighter. Remember at the time people didn't believe in mind powers and ghosts until about the time of macross 7.

Edited January 7, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

Well in all fairness, azrael did warn you VF-7000. Hell, even I sometimes get flak for the small unofficial portions of my website. It's best to stick to Egan's Macross Compendium whenever debating a specific point about Macross since it's the definitive english reference on the subject. That's why it's there.

I'll keep that in mind, Thank You!!!

Edited January 7, 2008 by VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK

[gerwalk25]

4 me it's the original VF-1 all the way.

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

"PROGRAMME: VF-22 developed from General Galaxy YF-21 design after UN Forces' decision not to adopt the earlier design as the main variable fighter in the Super Nova (AVF) competition. Brainwave control system not implemented in VF-22 design due to test results on the YF-21 in the Super Nova competition. Decision made to adopt VF-22S as special operations fighter successor to General Galaxy VF-17 2042 December. Two fighters used in final stages of Protodeviln War 2046 February. "

But according to compendium (zomg i've become a compendium zealot) that the BCS was taken off from the VF-22 due to results of the Supernova project. It probably meant the BCS didn't perform as well as it was expected to. And if something like a "neurochemical imbalance" (which seriously can mean anything from PMS to depression) can adversely affect the valk's performance, I'd consider it unstable.

I wouldn't say Guld had "mental illness" but he has the whole Zentran Rage thing going on for him.

But it would indeed be interesting if the development of the BCS and BDI continued.

It would definately help if you didn't take unofficial sources as fact though. Welcome to Macrossworld.

Thanks for the warm welcome to the MW Forums. I'll watch what I state on this forum for now on!!!

Edited January 7, 2008 by VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK

[Sumdumgai]

Silly me, mixed up pulse lasers and beam cannons again. But yeah, I meant it didn't have big kahuna guns.

I would argue Guld had mental illness, whether it be actually truly mental, or biological based. He did something really bad and blanked out his memories for years all while having to take medication or else... Well. Something "bad" might happen.

"Brainwave control system not implemented in VF-22 design due to test results on the YF-21 in the Super Nova competition."

That's not very precise unfortunately. While it's just as possible that the BCS/BDI was not implemented due to the problems caused by Guld (mental illness or not), I would argue that if that were the case it would be for further testing. The problems were caused when he got super pissed to the point that he practically blacked out and when he lost focus and it picked up on stray thoughts. The stray thoughts thing would be worrying since that wasn't something restricted to Guld and mental illness/zentran rage (like menstrual rage, but for an entire race! ).

Heaviest firepower without fast pack systems, I would say VB-6 Koenig Monster hands down.

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

I would have to agree with you the VB-6 has the most firepower out of all UN spacey Variable Fighting mecha, I compare it to a B-2 Spirit bomber on steroids!!!

Edited January 7, 2008 by VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK

[wolfx]

The problems were caused when he got super pissed to the point that he practically blacked out and when he lost focus and it picked up on stray thoughts. The stray thoughts thing would be worrying since that wasn't something restricted to Guld and mental illness/zentran rage (like menstrual rage, but for an entire race! ).

I think that too was another major issue. You need some extreme concentration when piloting with the BCS/BDI. If my wingman was making snide jokes at my expense and I imagined shooting him down.... ooops.

[KingNor]

to quote myself:

"VF-1 Valkyrie

It's simple, it's beautiful, it's original.

As far as the show goes its the least "super robo" of all the VF's in that it tended to only barely be up to the tasks it was presented with.

There is just so much to love about the VF-1. Including the fact that it's one of the few REALLY standard VF's in all of Macross. After SDF you started seeing the old standby prototypes and super duper custom jobs.

Dispite main character paintjobs, the VF-1 was a work horse, the VF of the common man.

The one and only VALKYRIE. "

[KingNor Feb 8 2007]

[VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK]

to quote myself:

As long as there are VF-1's around and upgrades for them they will continue to be work horses for colony worlds that want a lost cost Variable fighting mecha.

Edited January 7, 2008 by VF-7000 THUNDERHAWK

[Graham]

The VF-17D and now maybe the VF-171 are my favourites.

I also love the YF-19, VF-22, VF-0A/S, VF-2SS w/SAP, VF-11B/C & VF-5000.

The SV-51 and VF-25 are also really growing on me.

Somebody should start a least favorite VF poll. . My least favorite would be the VF-9 Cutlass and Metal Siren. I find them hideous in all 3 modes.

Graham

[David Hingtgen]

VF-9 gets points for making the battroid-mode chest out of the wings. And a front/back (as opposed to left/right) shoulder/arm transformation. It's definitely not very pretty in any mode, but it'd sure be a fun toy.

[JB0]

Somebody should start a least favorite VF poll. . My least favorite would be the VF-9 Cutlass and Metal Siren. I find them hideous in all 3 modes.

Graham

I VOTE VF-1 TIMES NINE MILLION!11111111

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

VF-1 is puny and small. The helmet looks basic, and the gunpod has so little features. I think the yf-19 is the best: it has the shield, *two beam sabers, pinpoint barriers, the best looking gunpod, a surprised weapon in the form of the the wings concealing the lasers in battroid mode, and size. (it beat the skinny armed yf-21 in a close quarters fight, ripping its arms off)

It's the man's VF. There is something about the 19 that to me screams, "I own the sky". It's wings mimmicking the flying dinosaur in the anime. VF-19 is cool too being based on it, but that would be like saying "I like the vf-0 the best cuz it looks like a vf-1." (very similar so it's pointless)

Only weakness is how the uniboob sticks out too much, and it's obvious that whenever you see the robot mode in the anime they purposely show it in non-erect nipple mode to hide it. But otherwise it's the one VF I can proudly say looks good in both robot and fighter mode. (unlike say the vf-11 which seems a little weak in robot mode without GBP but kicks ass as a fighter) The broad angled shoulders, nice head turret, bulky but smooth leg and arm armor, and good feet. (never a big fan of the vf-1 high heels look)

*i kid

Edited January 7, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[kensei]

The VF-9 Cutlass is one sleek and fast VF mecha and in my opinion the predecessor to the VF-19 Excalibur. With its small silhoutte it would be a hard Fighter to shoot down. Plus the VF-9 looks like the X-29 FSW Demostrator.

Interestingly, the YF-19s manufacturer rival General Galaxy invested that one, which is pretty much the first FSW Valkyrie in the Macross universe.

[sqidd]

19 all the way. It's Dead Sexy Baby!"

[OmegaD3k]

VF-0 - it's everything the VF1 is, but more handsome with a more realistic aesthetic.

The rest:

VF1, 25, 19, SV-51, 22, 2 and 4.

The Metal Siren is something I wouldn't even call a Valk. It's more of a gundam/other sci-fi creation.

The other valks in Mac2 looked better.. VF-2 series = simply amazing.

[KingNor]

the vf-19 is indeed sexy, i admit that. especially in fighter mode, who couldnt' like it.

My only problem with it is that it looks like it was designed to be sexy, unlike the vf-1 which i think looks more like it was designed to look solid and believable and in the mean time also looks cool

I don't think it's any coincidence that the vf1 has some of the simplest transformation and least amount of spikey fancey bits, it doesn't dangle it's wings off it's legs in a neat, but perilous way, or have overly huge head spikes.

I like it's blocky, sturdy apearance. It's the only VF out of the bunch that when painted standard grey actually seems like a real fighter.

As the franchise gets older imho it flirts more and more with Gundamism, and Gundam's mechs are something I reject outright :-)