Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread *Read 1st post*

[Morpheus]

I agree we never see the wrist lasers in use in battroid mode.

Graham

Gamlin use it when he was protecting the Mark twain from the varauta assault. He fired a few shot from the wrist cannon before he eject the gunpod from the leg compartment.

[RDClip]

Remember back when the series was first announced, we were all guessing the next piece of tech in a valk would be an internal fold system? Anyone still think that this will show up in the VF-25?

[Mr March]

Maybe the pilots of the Q-rau MF* are sitting kind of hunched up like in a tachikoma cockpit.

I am curious to see who is carrying on with Miria's colors.

You mean like a Reguld? I suppose that's always possible, but I think that might be a stretch since the torso looks even smaller than it does on the original Q-Rau and the original Q-Rau didn't appear to have the room for a curled up Meltran. BUt I suppose anything is possible.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Maybe the zentradi females have had their legs amputated and the nerves are connected to the controls for the robot legs?

Sort of like the brain in a jar guy in DYRL?

The brainwave control system may have been too dangerous but nobody said anything about wired to body control system.

The only other explanation: zentradi pilots have decided to have tentacles for limbs again. The sex is more enjoyable.

Edited February 2, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[kensei]

Maybe the zentradi females have had their legs amputated and the nerves are connected to the controls for the robot legs?

The obvious one is that all of the Meltrandi are micronised, and the Q-Rau v2 has a conventional control system which fits a pilot in the sitting position.

[Sorata]

Hey, let's talk about the new mecha introduced int he other threads! Per the recent images, we'll be treated to the following in MF:

1. The VB-6 (?) Konig Monster

Some panel lines are different, but overall I don't think it's changed much since VF-X2. As that game supposedly happens in 2050, having one show up here is just fine. It's in SMS service and not NUNS though, but if SMS uses the latest 25s... Who knows what use they'll have in the show, but long-large bombardment is hardly needed inside the ship (especially since they already have lots of conventional tanks). I'm guessing that Frontier will see some planetside action, enabling this smiling giant some screen time at last.

2. More Quedulun Rau Meltran armor

I'm happy to see these gals in what seems to be a Meltran analog to the armor units we saw in Macross Plus. Oddly though, the legs look all wierd, and they CERTAINLY don't look like they can carry a full size pilot in the legs. Or am I wrong, and in the original are the pilot's legs bunched up somewhere else but in the leg? Either way, it looks like they've got a little additional firepower now, with a new cannon on the back and longer-barreled triple guns in the arms.

And new details on stuff we've seen:

3. The VF-171

Liking it more, even if it's skinnier than I'd thought they'd make it. I see now that the shoulders seem to have only one missle port each, as opposed to the two each the original VF-17 had. This is again analogous to the VF-11, which had four missile ports per FAST pack on the B model from Macross Plus, but only two each on the C model we see in Macross 7. There's also no sign of the wierd forward-articulating knee the original had (and never explained). No sign of the arm-mounted cannon, but it might just be retracted; OTOH, it was never REALLY used on the 17, and the skinnier arms siggest it's not there.

4. The warships

Not much new here, although some have argued that the Uraga carrier types are much longer than the M7 lineart, and must therefore be variants. I'm personally willing to chalk these up to artistic interpretation, and the fact that these CG versions actually LOOK like they can be 500m long. The ARMD carriers continue to have no visible detail in their gaping maw, although in M7 it's shown to be a fighter launch bay. This contrasts with MF, where the 171s are launched from familiar DYRL armatures on the sides, complete with M7-esque hologrpahic guidance lighting. This keeps me thinking that the 171s still fill the role of spec ops fighter, and that some unseen (and possibly NEVER to be seen) fighter is still the cannon fodder workhorse. Let me hope for a 19, dammit!

Any more details to dicuss?

Mark

Ok I must be blind due to lack of sleep after work (3 days in a row of 12 hour shifts as the supervisor at a prison) but what thread is that from as I cant find where you got this from.

[RDClip]

Ok I must be blind due to lack of sleep after work (3 days in a row of 12 hour shifts as the supervisor at a prison) but what thread is that from as I cant find where you got this from.

From the MacF News thread

[Sorata]

From the MacF News thread

Yep it is the lack of sleep I had check the thresd but completely skipped the page the pics were on. I am going to bed now

[Duke Togo]

I can't keep these threads straight, it seems like we talk about the same thing in all of them.

[azrael]

They all have something in common which is Macross Frontier. But they're divided into sub-topics. This thread happens to be about the Mecha and Technology. We then have the episode and story talkback thread. And then we have the News thread which holds all our article/web site updates.

[Mr March]

I can't keep these threads straight, it seems like we talk about the same thing in all of them.

Probably a contributing factor for why some of us have seen various videos online but many haven't, even those of us who are daily visitors. Navigating these threads is a bit daunting and problematic I think.

[Zinjo]

Remember back when the series was first announced, we were all guessing the next piece of tech in a valk would be an internal fold system? Anyone still think that this will show up in the VF-25?

The bugs? Maybe.

NUNS? It doesn't appear likely. It took 30 years to develop booster the size of a large torpedo in the 2040's the best we'll probably see (if necessary) is a booster about half that size by 2059...

Edited February 3, 2008 by Zinjo

[Mark Nguyen]

Gamlin use it when he was protecting the Mark twain from the varauta assault. He fired a few shot from the wrist cannon before he eject the gunpod from the leg compartment.

I'll have to dig up the episode again... I seem to remember in that episode he used the chest lasers for a few shots before popping out the gun pod.

Mark

[Graham]

I'll have to dig up the episode again... I seem to remember in that episode he used the chest lasers for a few shots before popping out the gun pod.

Mark

That's what I remember as well. Will try to get a screen shot from tht ep today.

Graham

[Kasumi_Chan]

Ok at the risk of having things thrown or shot at me.. what is NUNS fighters?

[Mr March]

New United Nations Spacy

[Kasumi_Chan]

New United Nations Spacy

Oh duh.. I feel genius now.

[azrael]

Here's some info for you kids. Although, it needs a much better translation.

VF-25 (normal configuration, Alto and Ozuma-versions)

Successor to VF-171 in NUNS. Developed as the next generation VF. Details are still confidential.

Fighter

Length: 18.72m

Width (full wingspan): 15.5m

Height: 4.03m

Battroid

Height: 15.59m (with head lasers included)

Weapons: Beam cannon, head lasers, gunpod.

Full Armor

Additional armament and dedicated special equipment. The VF-1 Full Armor was limited to battroid-use, but the VF-25 remains variable and it is possible to fly. Detailed data has not been disclosed.

VF-171

Based of VF-17. Developed as a multipurpose heavy fighter. Most popular current variable manned fighter / bomber in 2059. Macross Frontier's NUNS main VF. VF-171 is highly versatile and easy to pilot.

Macross Frontier

Macross Frontier is a large-scale immigrant fleet of the total 10 million people scale. Flagship is called "Island 1/One".

It centers and it is being composed by big and small, various spaceships. About half of the population in the resides in Island One.

EX Gear

It is a reinforced exoskeleton type powered suit. Special suit that becomes pilot seat and lifesaving for new model VF units.

Variable small jet engine and large wing. Flight is also possible.

Pilot training course in the high school campus. It is assumed that one can board a new VF and train using the EX-Gear.

Because a basic performance is the same standard as the military use, though equipment has been simplified. Collaboration is possible in untouched new model VF a cockpit.

[Mark Nguyen]

Okay. so the VF-171 is indeed the new cannon fodder plane in Frontier, and is the current main fighter in NUNS. Kinda makes that whole Project Super Nova thing pointless in hindsight, no?

Meanwhile, Frontier itself concentrates most of its citizens (at least five million) in the largest "Island One" structure, which must therefore be a larger analogue to City 7 since the latter is supposed to have a million people in their whole fleet. Hum.

Mark

[wolfx]

Okay. so the VF-171 is indeed the new cannon fodder plane in Frontier, and is the current main fighter in NUNS. Kinda makes that whole Project Super Nova thing pointless in hindsight, no?

Well Project Supernova was when the OLD un spacy was in power. So who knows with a change of government to the NUNS anything can happen.

[CrusherJ]

Adds weight to the idea of the VF-19 being dubbed to expensive to mass produce, too much for the average pilot to handle, etc., and relegated to special forces status like the VF-22.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Yeah didn't gamlin mention how respectful he was of basara for being able to handle the vf-19 so easily and do all those fancy moves in macross 7? I seem to remember this scene because it's ironic that he is the serious military guy but still left piloting the 17 while basara is having so much fun singing and dancing inside a giant robot that is obviously superior to his and is a civilian.

I wonder if the skills of the newer pilots are superior to the skills of the older generation of pilots though?

I like that the full armour doesn't make the mecha look too bulky and retains that slim look. Everything is getting skinnier in the future!

Edited February 13, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Zinjo]

Okay. so the VF-171 is indeed the

Meanwhile, Frontier itself concentrates most of its citizens (at least five million) in the largest "Island One" structure, which must therefore be a larger analogue to City 7 since the latter is supposed to have a million people in their whole fleet. Hum.

Mark

I mentioned that in another thread (I think) that the Frontier (Island 1) was substantially larger than the City 7. The Max height of the City 7 from bottom to top of the dome (outside measure) was like 1600m, while the Frontier has an internal ceiling on the dome itself of 2000m. Comparatively speaking the Battle 7 looked much larger attached to City 7 as compared to the Macross/Battle 25 does attached to Island 1.

One could speculate that Island 1 is at least 3x larger than City 7.

Edited February 13, 2008 by Zinjo

[badboy00z]

Yeah didn't gamlin mention how respectful he was of basara for being able to handle the vf-19 so easily and do all those fancy moves in macross 7? I seem to remember this scene because it's ironic that he is the serious military guy but still left piloting the 17 while basara is having so much fun singing and dancing inside a giant robot that is obviously superior to his and is a civilian.

I wonder if the skills of the newer pilots are superior to the skills of the older generation of pilots though?

I like that the full armour doesn't make the mecha look too bulky and retains that slim look. Everything is getting skinnier in the future!

And he handles the 19 so well with modified guitar controls. Lol.

[azrael]

Adds weight to the idea of the VF-19 being dubbed to expensive to mass produce, too much for the average pilot to handle, etc., and relegated to special forces status like the VF-22.

There is the possibility that with the formation of the NUN, the role changed. The VF-19's and VF-22's primary consumers were the UNAF and UNS. The Marines are somewhat left out of that formula and the UNAF was left out of the VF-22's deployment. Maybe the VF-25 is the NUN's JSF. The VF-171 filled the role as an interim fighter but the need for a fighter to satisfy all UN armed forces was desired so the VF-25 was born.

[Zinjo]

There is the possibility that with the formation of the NUN, the role changed. The VF-19's and VF-22's primary consumers were the UNAF and UNS. The Marines are somewhat left out of that formula and the UNAF was left out of the VF-22's deployment. Maybe the VF-25 is the NUN's JSF. The VF-171 filled the role as an interim fighter but the need for a fighter to satisfy all UN armed forces was desired so the VF-25 was born.

That's a possiblility. Considering how multi-purpose it appears to be with a capability of mission specific add-on FAST packs, I wouldn't be surprised if Az is correct in his speculation that it is a next generation JSF fighter in the spirit of the Valkyrie workhorse.

[Mr March]

Now that we have statistics, I made up a rough size comparison chart that includes the VF-25.

Naturally, the fact that the picture compares the VF-25 3D model (with flawless dimensions) to the VF-1/VF-11/YF-19 line art (with artistic interpretation) means the comparison may appear a little "off." Nonetheless, it should provide at least a rough idea how the mecha measure up to each other.

Edited February 14, 2008 by Mr March

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

VF1A has the toughest hands.

[Zinjo]

VF1A has the toughest hands.

They're boxing gloves...

[Mark Nguyen]

If you think about it, they actually are. They didn't have pinpoint barriers or shields with pointy ends back then. Today's Valkyrie hands are doubtless capable of much more dexterity withouth having to armor them the way they used to.

The way I rationalize the VF-171 is using several real world parallels, namely with my favorite jet figther:

- The Canadian Air Force operates a variant of the F/A-18A Hornet, called the CF-188. Nomenclature like this is analagous to VF-17 ---> VF-171.

- The US Navy main fighter is now the F/A-18E and F Super Hornet. While externally similar to the earlier C and D models, they are almost wholly new machines, sharing very few components. Again, this is like how the 171 is very different than the 17, but they are indistinguishable to the lay-person.

- In terms of politics, the Super Hornet, while different enough than the original Hornet to be a differently-named and designated fighter, was specifically given the same name and variant letters to keep it in tune with the original. This is such that the Navy could make it LOOK like they were just continuing development on the Hornet rather than just get a new fighter, which looks better to the accountants in the US Congress. For the 171, the notion that it is a mass-production machine suggests that NUNS could have been "upgrading" the old 17, when in fact they got themselves a completely new machine that just happens to look like its predecessor.

Thoughts?

Mark

Edited February 15, 2008 by Mark Nguyen

[Zinjo]

Sounds reasonable to me...

[Mr March]

What the heck is with this weak hands crap? I'm sorry to go off on a tangent and I don't mean to single anyone out, but I've about heard my fill of this often repeated and (IMO) completely ridiculous theory.

I've never understood the parallel some seem to make between the pin-point barrier and a perceived "weakness" in the hand/manipulators of later Valkyries. Where the hell did this come from? It makes no sense, it's not mentioned/shown in any Macross anime and it's not part of any official statistics or information on the mecha. Just because Isamu and Guld used the pin point barriers upon the arms and shields of their Valkyries doesn't mean these areas of the mecha "needed" the pin-point barrier just to engage in physical combat. Valkyries of all eras are shown to be incredibly robust, punching through mecha or walls, smashing into the ground at high speeds, ramming through bridges, flying through buildings and more all intact. Almost every Valkyrie from the VF-0 in Macross Zero, to the VF-1 in DYRL to the VF-17 in Macross 7 (ALL with square styled, articulated hands) are shown punching something without the novelty of a pin-point barrier system. The hands/manipulators never suffer any damage and remain fully functional. Even if the hands/manipulators of the later Valkyries weren't designed for hand-to-hand fighting (a ridiculous assumption for a military robot), energy converting armor (Valkyrie technology that we now know Kawamori conceived many, many years ago, long before it was even canonized in Macross Zero) would make concerns about punching in hand-to-hand mecha combat completely mute.

[terry the lone wolf]

It might be me but doesn't the VF-25 looks like the Orguss-02 Decimator?

[azrael]

What the heck is with this weak hands crap? I'm sorry to go off on a tangent and I don't mean to single anyone out, but I've about heard my fill of this often repeated and (IMO) completely ridiculous theory.

People don't like small hands...Don't you know the whole bit with Darth Vader and the small hands in Ep. 3?

[Mark Nguyen]

Here's how I see the hands thing: arguably, the Valkyrie's hands ARE The most articulated part of the machine - five digits all built and calibrated to work like a human hand. While able to punch something like a Zentradi skull, if you could protect the RELATIVELY delicate machinery that makes the fingers work, wouldn't you? Look at the old F-14 Tomcats and their swing wings - there was a saying in the Navy that if a team maintaining an F-18 Hornet started their work at the same time, the Tomcat team would still be working with the Hornet team was into their third round of beer after finishing. Over-technology or no, you will still want to protect impact to the little things if you can. Heck, that's why humans punch each other with fists instead of open hands in the first place.

Before the days of PPB, even WITH the energy conversion, I can see that hands on early Valkyries would be larger and more armored to be better and heavier blunt weapons. But with the advent of shields, bayonets, and ultimately the PPB, Valkyrie hands would not NEED to be larger and more armored to pretect themselves in hand-to-hand. This is NOT to say that hands on the VF-25 can't lay some Muhammad Ali on the nearest bug, only that they don't HAVE to anymore.

Mark

Edited February 15, 2008 by Mark Nguyen