Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread *Read 1st post*

[jenius]

There are numerous problems with your analysis. First off its pretty clear that economics make up a huge part of the Macross universe. Its the reason why the VF-5000 replaces the VF-4, the production of the VF-9, and the selection of the 19 over the 21.

But that was the original argument for Destroids all along. They were economical mechs based on one frame type for varying purposes. A non-transformable vehicle MUST be more economically feasible than a valkyrie.

Its obvious that they want all environs combat vehicles, partly because its more economical than just space combat use destroids. As seen in Macross 7, colonization fleets do spend significant time on the ground, even if they don't colonize a planet.

You're going to have a hard time proving a valk makes any sense ever... 'cause it really doesn't. I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe 100 valks would be more economical than say 80 space destroids (which you gotta imagine cost WAY less to make) and 20 Valks. In Mac7 the colony finds a planet, it gets destroyed. If that planet weren't destroyed wouldn't that have been the end of the journey? Wouldn't then numerous ships have been brought to that planet? Wouldn't that be the perfect opportunity to replace the colony's space defense forces with forces designed specifically for protecting a planet (ie atmospheric combat). Besides that, there are several types of Valks in use simultaneously so it's not like the NUN forces have completely homogenized for economic benefit. Why not have just one squad of crazy expensive valks JUST IN CASE you find a planet (and need to defend it until reinforcements arrive) and have legions of space destroids for the defense of the colony in space (where it will spend 99% of its journey).

Moreover there is something to be said about having the weight of your research on one area, especially after the destruction of earth. If all your research is on transformable fighters, then its likely that you're going to continue to focus on transformable fighters as your main design of choice.

We see advances in every conceivable technology in the show. I still think this must boil simply to a Kawamori preference issue. The Monster going the VB-6 route is just retarded and I don't think it's fair to refer to it as a Destroid.

[SpacyAce2012]

Question is, just how effective were destroids in the first place? With the exception of the HWK Monster, which played a different role than most destroids, probably not very. They were large, slow, very easy to pick off... had limited weapons ect. Destroids were designed in an era when humans had little clue about how their opponents would fight... and from the looks of SDF macross and DYRL they were terrible compared to Valkyries. Even in built up areas, Valks seemed more effective there too... so for stopping a major threat to the colony, neither destroids or tanks are really the answer.

At the same time, they there still is a need for civil defence work: ie police duties and maybe helping during an attack. But if they never encounter an opponent inside the dome, what justifies the expense of destroids? Very little.

Judging from what I saw in the original series and movie, the destroids didn't fare much worse than the VFs. One must remember that the crews of both types were facing overwhelming odds in most engagements, and fighting an enemy with centuries of combat experience in the environment in question.

The Phalanx and Defender (like the HWR Monster series) were specialized designs that were almost perfect for the role they performed on board the Macross during SW1. The Tomahawk was the odd man out, it seems, not being as well suited as a mobile gun emplacement (it was designed to replace the MBT, after all). It was fine for the Daedalus Attack, but that appeared to be the exception to the rule.

I wouldn't call the weapons loadout of the "general" use destroids lacking. The Tomahawk had more firepower than a standard VF-1 Valkyrie, without the need for cumbersome attachments that didn't allow for the use of it's full tactical advantages in ground operations (GPS-1 Protector system). The Spartan, a cavalry vehicle designed to close with the enemy, was pretty potent in firepower.

The plans for the "battroid" and "destroid" were put into the works roughly around the same period. I'm guessing that the "battroid" was intended to originally function as a sort of "giant infantry", while the "destroid" was intended to replace traditional AFVs in frontline units. The "battroid" eventually (once again, only a gut feeling I get from the timeline) evolved into the VF, which kills three birds with one stone (replaces jet fighters, attack helos, and "standard" space fighters) and still meets it's original criteria in battroid configuration.

While the U.N. probably didn't know about specific models and types of enemy hardware (and their capabilities), the "battroid" and "destroid" were developed in tandem, to meet specific needs in a hypothetical future conflict WITH GIANTS.

The Spartan was an ideal starting point for a second-line defensive destroid. It was fairly quick, with good firepower (without a lot of overkill), and it enjoyed some of the same advantages as a VF in battroid configuration thanks to it's more humanoid design in comparison to other destroids. In fifty years time, technology has evolved to the point to where it's possible build a better Spartan, so to speak. A loadout specific to it's role, better agility, increased speed/mobility, better armor, etc. Such a unit would be cheaper than VFs to purchase and maintain for second line forces (not to mention, easier to maintain). It would be far more effective than traditional AFVs, and would free up VFs to be better utilized elsewhere.

Well worth the costs over traditional combat vehicles. And to be honest, not any worse than VFs and MBTs in an urban environment on board a colony ship. Probably far less,in fact, if the destroid in question is designed for such duties.

As for never encountering an opponent inside the dome? Attacks against civilian areas in colony fleets are the norm now, it seems (Macross 7 set the standard; wouldn't have a story otherwise). And the civilian areas of the SDF-1 Macross come under attack in the original series. The odds are high enough that any colony, that comes under attack by hostile forces, will see action in the civilian sectors. Thus, these hypothetical civil defense destroids would be well worth it. Even if the long trip for a colony fleet is relatively uneventful, considering history, paying the costs for a destroid "insurance policy" is not only worth it, it's a smart thing to do. Deep space is a highly dangerous place.

Someone mentioned how M7 proved that using destroids in a colony dome is a bad idea. I'm of the opinion that the incident in question isn't a good example, for or against. The use of a HWR-00-MKII inside of a colony dome is ridiculous by any standard. Overkill in the extreme, to be honest. The HWR series wasn't designed for such work to begin with. Unless, of course, you don't mind a little urban renewal.

[l_e_m]

Actually, if the VF-171 is a dumb-down version of the VF-17, then it inherited the cockpit layout (and wrap-around imaging screens) from the VF-17, not the YF/VF-19. And the VF-17 did have wrap around imaging.

Link

The wrap around imaging seen in Macross Frontier for the VF-171 was not relegated only to Battroid but fighter as well.

(We don't see a closeup Battroid VF-171 in the first episode anyways.)

Please, check the sequence when the VF-171s conducted a standoff missile barrage during Cheryl's concert.

The first time I've seen this wrap around imaging was in the YF-19 in M+.

It is my contention that this feature does not make the VF-171 simply a dumbed down version of the VF-17 but a fully updated one with avionics from the YF-19.

[SpacyAce2012]

The wrap around imaging seen in Macross Frontier for the VF-171 was not relegated only to Battroid but fighter as well.

(We don't see a closeup Battroid VF-171 in the first episode anyways.)

Please, check the sequence when the VF-171s conducted a standoff missile barrage during Cheryl's concert.

The first time I've seen this wrap around imaging was in the YF-19 in M+.

It is my contention that this feature does not make the VF-171 simply a dumbed down version of the VF-17 but a fully updated one with avionics from the YF-19.

Possibly. Hell, the nose/cockpit assembly resembles the VF-19 a little, as opposed to the F-117A style of the original VF-17.

[azrael]

The first time I've seen this wrap around imaging was in the YF-19 in M+.

It is my contention that this feature does not make the VF-171 simply a dumbed down version of the VF-17 but a fully updated one with avionics from the YF-19.

The YF/VF-19 may have been where you have 1st seen wrap-around imaging, but it's not the first place where it has existed. The VF-17 has had that feature before the YF/VF-19, even if limited in use.

I imagine it wouldn't take much to just turn on the rest of the screens on a VF-17, then making them standard in a VF-171. Heck they probably turned them on back in M7.

[Randalt]

It may be apples & oranges, but let's compare the newer Macross F biomecha with similar organic Protodeviln designs in Macross 7,

specifically Valgo's spawn in episode 31. Generated 50 or so at a time, as needed. Much like the disposable monster-of-the-week from a Sentai series.

Two types of battle units in both the old and new series (so far), with both of the new gold and red mechs having flight and battroid modes as well as beam & missile weaponry. If these Macross F biomecha don't have fold capability there must be a larger carrier vessel we haven't seen yet. Or, they're based in that asteroid belt (unlikely)?

Fleshy and pink, blowing up a large one fragmented it into smaller units, an ability not demonstrated in the new series. Also, the new biomechs have an insectoid exoskeletal structure with peculiar markings.

Besides draining Spiritia and increasing in size upon doing so the Protodeviln were effective in a short-ranged antipersonnel/antiarmour role, and as terror weapons.

Both are extremely fast & maneuverable. The new biomecha don't or can't harvest Spiritia.

Basara's sound energy/Anima Spiritia destroyed them. Is Sheryl Nome part of Project M(inmei)?!

Valgo himself could teleport/fold directly to a planet's surface and disrupt a starship's ability to fold. These new Macross F enemy biomecha do not (at this point) have the near-magical Protodeviln capabilities but the M-Frontier fleet is in deep trouble unless they can survive long enough to analyze their new enemies.

[Zinjo]

Miyatake was not hired to design destroids in Mac 7, his tasks were to design capital ships, the initial designs for the Varuata fighters (which Kawamori finished) and the PD. Why would he design a mecha that he wasn't hired to do. I suspect that the issue was to distinguish the Macross franchise from the Gundam one, eventhough the Destroids were not nearly as complex a mecha as the Gundams were.

The Koenig monster was a stupid design IMHO, however as a highly mobile artillery platform it would have it's uses, predominately in space. To deploy that mecha in an atmospheric enviroment would cause more damage than any benefits it could possibly have (mostly during its landing sequence).

I tend to agree that any updated destroids by 2059 would be formidable ground forces. It is also conceivable that with the costs of emigrations fleets requiring contracted defence forces to augment the NUNS forces, destroids would be considered too costly and relegated to Marine forces in military fleets. In that respect it makes more sense to deploy more conventional AFVs on non-eventful colony trips. However, it is a risk to take that route since you are sending out large populations of civilians into areas of un-explored space where you know Zentreadi and SA forces could still be lurking.

Combat effectiveness is not a very strong argument for the lack of destroids seen in Macross since DYRL.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

I expect the VF-25 is the next generation of front line fighter. It has no SOCOM aspects that we can determine like the VF-17, VF-19 or the VF-22. By all appearances it is the latest generation of standard variable fighter that requires weapons augmentation packs for maximum combat effectiveness. The biggest weakness of the VF-171 is it's apparent inability to carry much more than what the fighter already has besides underwing missile hardpoints. With the exception of beam weapon fast packs, what you see is what you get, which is somewhat limiting. No doubt the VF-171 is very effective against Zentreadi weaponry, which would be why it is the standard fighter of the NUNS.

[Zinjo]

It may be apples & oranges, but let's compare the newer Macross F biomecha with similar organic Protodeviln designs in Macross 7,

specifically Valgo's spawn in episode 31. Generated 50 or so at a time, as needed. Much like the disposable monster-of-the-week from a Sentai series.

Two types of battle units in both the old and new series (so far), with both of the new gold and red mechs having flight and battroid modes as well as beam & missile weaponry. If these Macross F biomecha don't have fold capability there must be a larger carrier vessel we haven't seen yet. Or, they're based in that asteroid belt (unlikely)?

Fleshy and pink, blowing up a large one fragmented it into smaller units, an ability not demonstrated in the new series. Also, the new biomechs have an insectoid exoskeletal structure with peculiar markings.

Besides draining Spiritia and increasing in size upon doing so the Protodeviln were effective in a short-ranged antipersonnel/antiarmour role, and as terror weapons.

Both are extremely fast & maneuverable. The new biomecha don't or can't harvest Spiritia.

Valgo himself could teleport/fold directly to a planet's surface and disrupt a starship's ability to fold. These new Macross F enemy biomecha do not (at this point) have the near-magical Protodeviln capabilities but the M-Frontier fleet is in deep trouble unless they can survive long enough to analyze their new enemies.

The PD were all highly experimental prototypes, not exactly standard issue gear for the PC forces. They are quite fantastical and much of their weaponry seemed less based on reality and more based on the needs of the story, thus very difficult for even the ardent Mac 7 fan to explain.

The spiritia harvesting is not a PC weapon, it was necessary to feed the super dimension entities possessing the EVIL series creatures.

Comparing the current bio-mecha to the AFOS or even the space wales in Dynamite (yes Keith I believe you were right about the space wales-now) is probably better as the they are most likely at the same tech level.

[Fade Rathnik]

Regarding the choice to use the 171 versus the VF-19 or really any other VF, its simple. Its a space defense fleet. The 17 was always intended as a space fighter, so FAST packs are not required making them cheaper based on a per launch basis as you don't run the risk of having to eject the external pods. It is also inhearantly stealthy so an active stealth system is not required. Less extra stuff to maintain. Also the 17 is an extremely powerful fighter and could more than hold its own against Fully equipt VF-19. (if pilots were equal) I think Grahame is right and that the 171 is a 17 upgraded from Advanced late 2040's technology to standard late 2050's tech, and the weapon load out is redesigned to suit its new role.

The VF-25 strikes me as more of a multi role VF. In fact I think its safe to say the it includes many of the lessons learned from the Vf-19 in a simplified form both to manufacture and fly. With one major change, I think that its safe to say the the vf-25 is better suited to external equipment then the 19 could ever be. Meaning that it may not have all the bells and whistles of a 19 it can be adapted to a wider range of missions. I think that guessing the VF-25 serves in place of the VF-171 in core systems or systems with atmosphere to fly through would be a safe bet. I am sure that the VF-19 is likely more common than she used to be in fact it may even be the standard in Sol system proper, with the VF-22 serving as SOC.

Edited January 6, 2008 by Fade Rathnik

[chrono]

The Biomech seem to be perfectly matched with the technologies of the Macross forces. So much so that killing the fighters pilot was something that they knew to do. The entire fight felt like an armed assault recon rather than just seeing and attacking.

VF-171 vs VF-19..... Kawamori "I like the 17 better than the 19, and it helps to separate series (and myself from M7), and keeps the older and more familiar craft for the audience"

[jenius]

The realy reason to have a 17 instead of a 19? So that we toy collectors can finally get a great toy of it!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Poor destroids. With antigravity technology they could try to create experimental combinable ones that hover on the skin of the ships and dock with each other like the alpha and beta fighter.

The valks could concentrate on fancy flying and dogfighing while the destroids on guarding areas that don't require too much speed and movement. It was the monster after all that damaged the birdman in zero and not shin or roy.

The transforming octos kicked ass. More of those surprise attack destroids would be cool.

With the variable glaugs having flying abilities and the monster able to hover, I think a anti-grav hovertank (no treads just floats on the skin) would be pretty cool. Maybe we don't see it often like we don't see the ghost drones in SDF:macross that much, but have them there doing some fighting. Save the Destroids! They look cheaper to make than the valks and have better protection of the heads. Eventually the bugs will get aboard the ship and abduct people. And the Valkyrie destroys the environment with its harmful feet thrusters so it's not suitable for all places. But a few futuristic spartans with hand carried shotguns and melee weapons would be ideal for inside a city where they can't be allowed to destroy the insides. (sort of like the robots in patlabor) The destroids in SDF:M were shorter than the vf-1 (smaller than the newer valkyries) so I don't really see the problem with lack of space. Some of these destroids would be ideal for helping repair the cities too.

Edited January 6, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[azrael]

Now that I think about it, the X-Gears system reminds me very much of Kawamori's original concept or a guy in a power suit/exo-suit.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I like them a lot better than those hover boots in macross 7 trash.

These ones make a lot more sense. Now it's more obvious when people are cheating in basketball.

Edited January 6, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Mark Nguyen]

Dynamite 7 implied that VF-17s are easy enough to fly & fight for a pilot not familiar with the controls. This may have something to do with its relative longevity... Also, MD7 showed that anyone with the right connections can get their hands on one. As special as they were in Macross 7, they may have been more common than we thought, even back then.

While we're at it, I'm thinking about the designation itself... We Canadians operate a specialized variant of the F/A-18 Hornet, called the CF-118 on paper. Perhaps the VF-171 is a "foreign" variant of the ol' 17 licensed by some foreign manufacturer? Surely the universe is big enough that every single fighter design can't be built by the same two companies...

Mark Nguyen <--- I'm back, baby!

[wolfx]

But that was the original argument for Destroids all along. They were economical mechs based on one frame type for varying purposes. A non-transformable vehicle MUST be more economically feasible than a valkyrie.

You're going to have a hard time proving a valk makes any sense ever... 'cause it really doesn't. I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe 100 valks would be more economical than say 80 space destroids (which you gotta imagine cost WAY less to make) and 20 Valks. .....<snip>

The destroids were the 1st anti-giant-alien weapon systems created but were discontinued in favour for the VF-X programme despite costing 20 times more. Those in service on the Macross and the many others still in service are the last ones. There were no more destroids created after the VF-1 (except the Konig Monster)

http://macross.anime.net/mecha/united_nati.../vf1/index.html

From Compendium:

PROGRAMME: Tentative plan introduced for all-regime variable combat system for use against giants February 2002. UN Forces' basic requirement for system to incorporate aerospace fighting capability equal to the level of contemporary fighters and ground comabt capability comparable to Destroid series. Development began with United Nation Forces contract to Stonewell and Bellcom; Stonewell and Bellcom solicited the powerplant producer Shinnakasu Heavy Industry (co-developer of reaction engines) and ground weaponry maker Centinental (co-developer of Destroid series) as partners; development team completed basic design 2005; one non-transformable VF-X flight test machine and one transformable VF-X-1 produced; first flight February 2007; space-worthiness tests begin in June 2007. Decision made to formally introduce the VF-X1 November 2007.

<snip>

COSTS: Not publicly disclosed, but reported to be about 20 times that of a standard Destroid.

So as you can see economical but probably not great enough for survivability. Sure its cheaper to make 200 zerglings and rush them towards the enemy base who has the more expensive Protoss Carriers and Reavers. Who wins? Definately not the Zerglings.

[Duke Togo]

Every weapon we've seen created by the Protoculture were either biological or biomechanical.

[Mr March]

While we're at it, I'm thinking about the designation itself... We Canadians operate a specialized variant of the F/A-18 Hornet, called the CF-118 on paper. Perhaps the VF-171 is a "foreign" variant of the ol' 17 licensed by some foreign manufacturer? Surely the universe is big enough that every single fighter design can't be built by the same two companies...

Mark Nguyen <--- I'm back, baby!

Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. The VF-171 could just be a special variant of the old VF-17, much like regional variants of purchased fighter craft. That's a good point. There's been a lot of discussion so far about the autonomy or governing of these new colonization fleets operating in the 2050s. Perhaps the UNG is selling variable fighters to these self-governing colony fleets and the fleets are modifying them (along with re-designating them) to suit their requirements.

[SpacyAce2012]

The destroids were the 1st anti-giant-alien weapon systems created but were discontinued in favour for the VF-X programme despite costing 20 times more. Those in service on the Macross and the many others still in service are the last ones. There were no more destroids created after the VF-1 (except the Konig Monster)

While the idea of a transforming combat system was accepted on Feb. 2002, the basic battroid concept was born around the same time as the destroid concept. From the Compendium timeline, year 2000:

April

Research on anti-giant combat weaponry systems ([later designated as] Battroid and Destroid) begins.

The prototype destroids entered trial production first (Sept 2001). However, formal adoption and full production of ANY destroid type didn't begin until June 2006 (MBR-04 series). In between those dates, only trial production and design work of most of the models familiar to us took place. The only exception would be the HWR series, which began in design phase on 12/2000. However, trial production of the Monster didn't begin until 2005, full production: 9/2008.

And while this was going on, the VF program was in full swing. Both programs ran concurrent to one another. So, no. I don't believe that the destroids were rejected that early on in favor of the VF. That would come some time after SW1.

There is no indication that production was halted before or during SW1.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Destroids will probably go the way of the regult and glaug. As toys people will buy VFs more because of the transformation gimmick and they are actually the hero mecha just like gundam is in its universe. There willl never be a hero destroid pilot. Even though in macross zero the monster saved the day and the pilot didn't get congratulated for his work aiming at the PC robot that was going to exterminate the human race. Kinda sad. But that's where transforming destroid come in. I don't see why they couldn't make more of stuff like the octos which hides in the sea like the regult did in SDF:macross and launch a surprise attack? (for times when they find a hostile native race competing for control on a planet they've already settled on?)

The regult could float in the water and then leap into the air with the powerful legs and shoot stuff on the ground easily because of its height. I just think there are advantages to different mecha types that might be useful for certain things that VFs might not be. VFs for example can hover on the spot, but it wastes energy and the weapons point forwards making it harder to shoot stuff while in that mode. A more accurate way to kill things would be to have the gun up high but standing tall from the ground. This way you can crouch to avoid being an easy target, (say in the giant grass or in a forest) and then stand up to peek at what's ahead without being seen. You may not want to bomb the area because you want to capture it for yourself so as to preserve the culture, and study the aliens. I can think of all kinds of uses for the older tech, but I think the emphasis is always going to be on the hero mecha since it will sell the most toys.

But having said that, even gundam has it's space use robots, ground use robots, robots used in the sea, and flying ones. The government is just more restricted in money in macross. Maybe because people have no money and robots have taken all their jobs so they are poor and can't be taxed as much? No more guy in the street cleaning up th mess when you can just get a robot to do it. Everyone just becomes a soldier. But even then, the zentradi are better suited to it because they love to kil stuff as that is their way of life.

Edited January 6, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Ghadrack]

Not to totally derail the thread but.....

Was I the only one who thought the bioengineered cell phone frog was a pretty neat little touch? How disappointed will i be if it becomes a pivotal figure in the plot.

[Elektrix]

Not to totally derail the thread but.....

Was I the only one who thought the bioengineered cell phone frog was a pretty neat little touch? How disappointed will i be if it becomes a pivotal figure in the plot.

I'd buy one....

Somehow I can't imagine it being any more pivotal to the plot than Guvava.

[wolfx]

While the idea of a transforming combat system was accepted on Feb. 2002, the basic battroid concept was born around the same time as the destroid concept. From the Compendium timeline, year 2000:

Both designs started at the same time. One was adopted as the de facto anti-giant weapon system. The Battroid. That's how I see it.

The prototype destroids entered trial production first (Sept 2001). However, formal adoption and full production of ANY destroid type didn't begin until June 2006 (MBR-04 series). In between those dates, only trial production and design work of most of the models familiar to us took place. The only exception would be the HWR series, which began in design phase on 12/2000. However, trial production of the Monster didn't begin until 2005, full production: 9/2008.

And while this was going on, the VF program was in full swing. Both programs ran concurrent to one another. So, no. I don't believe that the destroids were rejected that early on in favor of the VF. That would come some time after SW1.

There is no indication that production was halted before or during SW1.

There's no indication in the entire compendium timeline of the discontinuation of the destroid series but we all know it happened. By 2007 the VF-1's mass production begins and its deployment on 2008 and by then all the destroids we know have been produced and deployed. There's no indication of anymore being made after the VF-1. So its highly possible that the production has stopped prior to SW1, or at least they never got into a 2nd production run of destroids before all the war factories got orbital bombarded.

I'm still quite sure it happened around before SWI .

[Graham]

Actually, if the VF-171 is a dumb-down version of the VF-17, then it inherited the cockpit layout (and wrap-around imaging screens) from the VF-17, not the YF/VF-19. And the VF-17 did have wrap around imaging.

Link

Yep, that is correct the VF-17 did feature wrap around imaging screens in the cockpit. These are clearly shown on the official lineart.

Graham

[Zinjo]

There's no indication in the entire compendium timeline of the discontinuation of the destroid series but we all know it happened.

Hmm, well if that is indeed the case then the bible clearly doesn't say that destorids are discontinued, it's only speculation...

[wolfx]

Uhhh...i'll let Jesus...uhh i mean Graham answer that then.

He is the way the truth and the light, in macross. XD

[Graham]

As far as Macross mecha go, my main areas of speciality are the VF-1, VF-17, YF/VF-19, YF-21 & VF-22.

While I'm resonably knowledgable about other vFs and Destroids, I'm not an expert.

Graham

[deadghost]

when I think of the vf-25 I think its a first you know why, because all the valks shoji created were based on real life aircraft(yf-19 -su47,or yf-21-f-21), and I thought because of that he was allways held back, but now with the righteous and paramount arrival of the vf-25(my new love, throwing away yf-19 ,and yf-21 in the trash) I feel things are going to be better and superb, lets hope shojie will continue on this path.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Technically the monsters are also destroids so saying destroids are discontinued is wrong isn't it?

Mini monsters could pop up in the future equipped with fold boosters, full barrier system, and portable macross buster canon on them since they are strong enough to generate the power needed to fire it. (yeah yeah the vf-11 had a giant gunpod in macross 7 but that is in space where the gravity isn't pulling it down) All the weaker robots would break if they fired the gun. But not the monster. The machine is really just a giant gun on legs. I bet given that they were responsible for shooing away the afos in macross zero they will probably do something similar in Macross F.

Only problem is how slow they are. But who cares if you can shoot people from afar? Look at the Grand cannon for example: just a big gun that could fire at long range and kill groups of ships in one shot. The military can't afford to just rely on the valkyrie which takes a hit on speed for carrying heavy weapons. It's going to need bigger mecha generating larger amounts of power, and shooting from a safe distance where the enemy can't get you easily. (unless they have the same thing)

Edited January 7, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Graham]

Going back a few pages to the discussion about the wrap-around imaging screens in the VF-17, here's line-art of the VF-17's cockpit interior, clearly showing the location of all the imaging panels.

Graham

[wolfx]

Going back a few pages to the discussion about the wrap-around imaging screens in the VF-17, here's line-art of the VF-17's cockpit interior, clearly showing the location of all the imaging panels.

Graham

Woah graham got a new "VF-17 bearded guy" as an avatar.

You know i saw photos of real cockpits and they look tight and cramped. That VF-17 cockpit actually looks comfortable!

[chrono]

Not to totally derail the thread but.....

Was I the only one who thought the bioengineered cell phone frog was a pretty neat little touch? How disappointed will i be if it becomes a pivotal figure in the plot.

It's cute, but gross at the same time. The 'fart' sound when she squeezes it is just nasty though.

[macrossvf-1msx]

you know MF ep1 they use Ghost the way the USAF wants to use UAVs

UAVs go in frist than F-22s and F-35s

funney huh

Also as for the Ghost could be BCS and BDI control abroad ship

Edited January 7, 2008 by macrossvf-1msx

[ChronoReverse]

It's only logical though. Drones can pull higher G's so in a dogfight they'd work out better anyways. When you need to do something that requires a pilot THEN you send them in. Why waste expensive hardware and people right?

[Mark Nguyen]

It's only logical though. Drones can pull higher G's so in a dogfight they'd work out better anyways. When you need to do something that requires a pilot THEN you send them in. Why waste expensive hardware and people right?

Well, people anyway.

But they did the right thing sending the Ghosts in first. For all we know, the Ghosts ARE the frontline fighter for NUNS and everyone else; they would work perfectly fine against Zentradi or other conventional, known threats, before they got close to the fleet. When the Ghosts were innefective against the computer jamming of the enemy bio-machines, the wimpy and inexperienced (in REAL combat, anyway) pilots head in with their specialized VF-171s. Heck, it's entirely possible that the 171s ARE the specialized mecha already, and that it's the pilots who freaked out and were completely outmatched by the enemy. Thus, call in the civilian third wave and their really, REALLY powerful mecha.

Mark

PS - The phone frog is certainly not a bio-engineered life form. I'm sure it's just a regular cellphone for 2059, built into a cute squishy exterior. Call it a Tickle-Me Elmo with attitude and an actual practical USE.