Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread *Read 1st post*

[Braddock76]

As for internal missiles, we don't know yet. However, in the Deculture edition, when Gilliam flies into the city after ejecting his Super Pack, he is shown firing two missiles at the red bug. These missiles had to come from somewhere and no missiles were shown being carried on the 6 wing hard points. So, either there are internal missile bays, or it was a continuity/animation error.

Graham

Im going to support the idea that the VF-25 has internal missile bays, as they have been common to all the special operations Valkyries (VF-17, VF-19 and VF-22). This would also make sense for better performance and stealth (assuming the VF-25 employs active stealth). At a guess, I would place them in the legs like on the VF-19.

On the topic of the eye control etc, the fighter could employ a kind of brain wave recognition technology like a lower scaled version of the BCS on the YF-21. The technology is not that far away and there are companies currently working on devices which use brainwaves to replace your mouse or gaming controller.

3 companies about to release retail versions of this technology:

http://www.emotiv.com/

http://www.ocztechnology.com/

http://www.neurosky.biz/

Edited April 16, 2008 by Braddock76

[badboy00z]

But the legs one the YF/VF-19 are thicker than the VF-25. Maybe it has even smaller missiles? Lol.

I really want a Yamato 1/60 blazer valkyrie...

[Alastar]

Im going to support the idea that the VF-25 has internal missile bays, as they have been common to all the special operations Valkyries (VF-17, VF-19 and VF-22). This would also make sense for better performance and stealth (assuming the VF-25 employs active stealth). At a guess, I would place them in the legs like on the VF-19.

I read some where they are going to try and stay away from the whole stealth design. If anyone knows or can compare the size of the VF-19 and the VF-25 to see if it size can even hold leg missile bays along with extra gun pod clips. Good chances the VF-25 GU pod just has a large internal capacity magazine.

I went to the Emotive systems site and seen the Nero Head set. That could very well be what is inside the VF pilots Helmet.

[Graham]

I said earlier it had a different head, but I was wrong, it has a standard "A" type head, like Michel's.

It's difficult to say for certain until we get some clearer images or line art, but it's my opinion that the heads on Mikhail's and Luca's VF-25 are distinctly different.

Graham

[Graham]

I read some where they are going to try and stay away from the whole stealth design. If anyone knows or can compare the size of the VF-19 and the VF-25 to see if it size can even hold leg missile bays along with extra gun pod clips. Good chances the VF-25 GU pod just has a large internal capacity magazine.

I went to the Emotive systems site and seen the Nero Head set. That could very well be what is inside the VF pilots Helmet.

Kawamori stated something to the effect that when designing the VF-25 he did not want to follow the silhouette (shape) of modern day stealth aircraft. Note, this does not preclude the VF-25 from having an active stealth system (we don't know whether it does or not yet), it just means that Kawamori wanted to get away from basing the shape of the VF-25 Fighter mode on modern day aircraft.

From the length of time that Alto continuously fires the VF-25's gunpod, it must have a very high magazine capacity. I haven't timed the length of time that he continously fires the gunpod yet (keep meaning to, but haven't gotten around to it yet). Given that it is a 5 barrel gunpod, we can make some educated guesses about the rate of fire. The real world GAU 12/A 25mm five barreld rotary cannon has a normal rate of fire of 3,600 rounds per minute and a maximum rate of fire of 4,200 round per minute. See Wikipedia entry below

The General Electric GAU-12/U Equalizer is a five-barrel 25 mm Gatling gun-style rotary cannon. The GAU-12/U is used by the United States, the UK, and several other NATO nations, which mount the weapon in their fighter jets (e.g., the Harrier), airborne gunships (e.g., the AC-130), and land-based fighting vehicles. The GAU-22/A is 4-barrel version designed for use on the F-35 Lightning II.

The five-barrel 'Equalizer' cannon was developed in the late 1970s, based on the mechanism of the GAU-8/A Avenger cannon, but firing a new NATO series of 25 mm ammunition. The GAU-12/U cannon is operated by a 15 hp (11 kW) electric motor, in external mounts supplied by a bleed air-drive pneumatic system. Its rate of fire is normally 3,600 rounds per minute, with a maximum of 4,200 rounds per minute.

It's probably fairly safe to assume a similar rate of fire for the VF-25's gunpod. Once we time the length of Alto's continuous burst from start to when the gun clicks empty, we can calculate a rough figure for the magazine capacity (it will be an extremely rough guesstimate though).

By comparison, the VF-1's GU-11 55mm, 3 barreled gunpod had a 200rd magazine, with a 1,200 round per minute rate of fire, which gave it 10 seconds of continuous fire (of course, you should fire in short bursts, not waist the whole mag in one go like Alto did, or like Hikaru did in the VF-1D).

Graham

[sketchley]

No it wasn't. From what I remember, Kawamori was actually surprised to see the SU-47 years after he had designed the YF-19. Primary design influence of the YF-19 is the X-29.

Great Mechanics.DX 4 Pg 092 (VF Image Source)

F-14 - VF-1

SR-71 - VF-4

YF-23 - YF-21

X-29 - YF-19

F-117 - VF-17

Su-27 - SV-51

F-16XL - VF-0D

In addition, the article states the following:

それよりも驚くべきなのはYF-19デザイン以後に登場した実機スホーイSu-47がYF-19にそっくりであるということだ。

Translated roughly as "After the YF-19 was designed, the real (life) Sukhoi Su-47 appeared; which is quite surprising."

[s001]

Hey the VF-14 is based on the SR-71.

[s001]

Quick questions: Did Ozma killed the big bug using the pin point barrier system on the blade of the knife? and Where the hell was that enormous knife stored before? Inside of the gunpod maybe?

[wolfx]

I'm really glad that Skull Squadron feels like a real special forces squad. They have a "sniper/sharpshooter, an ELINT for recon and intelligence gathering, a commander unit, and .....i guess Alto's the grunt?

In contrast, Diamond Force and Emerald Squadron are just elite ace squadrons despite having special forces mecha.

[Mark Nguyen]

Either way, the best boys get the best toys.

Mark

[Zinjo]

I'm really glad that Skull Squadron feels like a real special forces squad. They have a "sniper/sharpshooter, an ELINT for recon and intelligence gathering, a commander unit, and .....i guess Alto's the grunt?

In contrast, Diamond Force and Emerald Squadron are just elite ace squadrons despite having special forces mecha.

They weren't even squadrons, they were "flights". Squadrons consist of more than just 3 aircraft...

[MisaForever]

They weren't even squadrons, they were "flights". Squadrons consist of more than just 3 aircraft...

If you guys are any more anal about terms and such I'm going to throw you all in the brig GET OVER IT

[Mr March]

It's very likely the VF-25 gun pod has plenty of ammo, far more than the old GU-11 55mm gun pods on the VF-1 Valkyrie. The Macross sequels like Plus and 7 show that the gun pods get more destructive but use smaller ammunition as time goes on. The VF-11 gun pod was a 30 mm gun and had a very high ammunition capacity while powerful enough to deal with the most advanced Zentradi mecha of the era. It's likely the VF-25 gun pod is somewhere in the same 30 mm range and has a plentiful ammo count. I hope we get some statistics on it.

For those wondering about the size differences between the Valkyries (and the possibility of leg mounted, internal micro-missiles), here's my rough size comparison based on the official figures for the Valkyrie Battroid height.

VF-1 Valkyrie Battroid height: 12.68 meters

VF-11B Thunderbolt Battroid height: 12.92 meters

YF-19 Battroid height 15.48 meters (without cannon)

VF-25 Battroid height 15.59 meters (including lasers)

[Duke Togo]

They weren't even squadrons, they were "flights". Squadrons consist of more than just 3 aircraft...

Well, the one dude got squished...

But yeah, its anime.

[VF5SS]

It's more of a poor translation of the word "shotai."

[TehPW]

Great Mechanics.DX 4 Pg 092 (VF Image Source)

F203 Dragon II - VF-1

That begs the question... what if the Dragon II was supposed to be the F-15? I mean, alot of the manufactor names used in Macross Fiction are derieved from real world companies, but not exactly so (to avoid legal issues?)...

[Zinjo]

That begs the question... what if the Dragon II was supposed to be the F-15? I mean, alot of the manufactor names used in Macross Fiction are derieved from real world companies, but not exactly so (to avoid legal issues?)...

Well the article was prior to the Mac Zero retcon, so anything is possible...

[badboy00z]

You also have to take into account that Gilliam used the gunpod as well.

[Graham]

Quick questions: Did Ozma killed the big bug using the pin point barrier system on the blade of the knife? and Where the hell was that enormous knife stored before? Inside of the gunpod maybe?

The knife is probably stored inside the shield on the left forearm.

Graham

[s001]

Yes probably, That's a good theory.

[Mr March]

So, about the VF-25 Full Armor.

Well, from episode 2 we now know quite a few things about the VF-25 in the armored configuration. First of all, it is beyond any doubt that not only can the VF-25 transform in all modes with the Full Armor system, but that the transformation speed is just as fast without the armor. Ozuma transformed his VF-25 Full Armor to dodge near-point blank fire. That's about as fast as it gets in the Macross universe

Further, we see that the VF-25 Full Armor in GERWALK mode can hover and even fly inside the atmosphere! That's pretty damn impressive. I would imagine the VF-25 Full Armor weighs less than previous era Armored Valkyries to accomplish this kind of operation.

As always, I'm eagerly awaiting the statistics on the new Valkyries.

[wolfx]

It's more of a poor translation of the word "shotai."

Shotai IS squadron right? Its Skull shotai in SDF Macross as well if i'm not mistaken. Otherwise how else would you translate it?

[Heron]

Great Mechanics.DX 4 Pg 092 (VF Image Source)

X-29 - YF-19

In addition, the article states the following:

Translated roughly as "After the YF-19 was designed, the real (life) Sukhoi Su-47 appeared; which is quite surprising."

Damn, I never knew that, lol. I also forgot all about the X-29..

Edited April 17, 2008 by Heron

[grss1982]

So, about the VF-25 Full Armor.

Well, from episode 2 we now know quite a few things about the VF-25 in the armored configuration. First of all, it is beyond any doubt that not only can the VF-25 transform in all modes with the Full Armor system, but that the transformation speed is just as fast without the armor. Ozuma transformed his VF-25 Full Armor to dodge near-point blank fire. That's about as fast as it gets in the Macross universe

Further, we see that the VF-25 Full Armor in GERWALK mode can hover and even fly inside the atmosphere! That's pretty damn impressive. I would imagine the VF-25 Full Armor weighs less than previous era Armored Valkyries to accomplish this kind of operation.

As always, I'm eagerly awaiting the statistics on the new Valkyries.

Now that you mentioned it. When I realized that Ozma's unit was flying in an artificial Earth-like atmosphere with that huge amount of armor, I went WTF!!!!??? If it was in space It was believable. I mean the original full armor from Macross Zero being used by Roy could only hover inside the Asuka.

Over Technology must have really gone a long way in helping those new armor add-ons for the VF-25 become that lightweight. OR am I analyzing this the wrong way and the new add-ons are quite heavy, but is compensated by the VF-25's use of some very powerful engines.

[Master Dex]

Now that you mentioned it. When I realized that Ozma's unit was flying in an artificial Earth-like atmosphere with that huge amount of armor, I went WTF!!!!??? If it was in space It was believable. I mean the original full armor from Macross Zero being used by Roy could only hover inside the Asuka.

Over Technology must have really gone a long way in helping those new armor add-ons for the VF-25 become that lightweight. OR am I analyzing this the wrong way and the new add-ons are quite heavy, but is compensated by the VF-25's use of some very powerful engines.

Actually if you remember from episode 1, the gravity level on Macross Frontier is only set to .75 G. This could explain why the Armored VF-25 can hover inside the dome without too much problem, that is a lot lighter that Earth gravity.

I so rarely post unless I feel I need to say something, maybe I should speak up more often. I've seen the raw and the Gattai sub (didn't bother looking at any others, the Gattai sub gave me a good idea as to what was going on, I don't analyze translation much), and I am really loving this show right now, especially the VF-25 which just looks gorgeous. Eagerly awaiting episode 3.

[Mr March]

Even at 75% gravity, that still leaves the vast majority of the mass to deal with. If the Full Armor is an extra 20-30 tons, that's still 15-23 extra tons of weight. It's very doubtful the 1/4 less gravity would allow the VF-25 to go from no flight to unhindered flight. Granted, it's possible, but IMO, the VF-25 Full Armor system would have to be much lighter or the capabilities of the VF-25 engines that much more powerful in order to fly around under any significant gravity.

[Master Dex]

Even at 75% gravity, that still leaves the vast majority of the mass to deal with. If the Full Armor is an extra 20-30 tons, that's still 15-23 extra tons of weight. It's very doubtful the 1/4 less gravity would allow the VF-25 to go from no flight to unhindered flight. Granted, it's possible, but IMO, the VF-25 Full Armor system would have to be much lighter or the capabilities of the VF-25 engines that much more powerful in order to fly around under any significant gravity.

I had thought of that, I was mainly offering the 75% gravity tidbit in aiding how the armored VF-25 is able to fly. I'd assume the engines are running more power to the thrust with the armor (or they output a lot of thrust at standard and don't use the max for a Valkyrie without armor). I could also believe that in 50 years time we could make an armor system out of lighter materials that offer similar or more protection.

[ChronoReverse]

I wouldn't be surprised that the 25 can hover with the heavy armour. It takes more energy to be able achieve escape velocity than to simply hover and we know that the previous generation of VFs were already capable of escape velocity on their own. A generation later, it doesn't take much of a stretch to envision engines even more powerful.

In any case, even with the 25 you can see how the hovering was quite laboured when Ozma's VF lumbered out of the hanger.

Edited April 17, 2008 by ChronoReverse

[sketchley]

Great Mechanics.DX 4 Pg 092 (VF Image Source)

F203 Dragon II - VF-1

That begs the question... what if the Dragon II was supposed to be the F-15? I mean, alot of the manufactor names used in Macross Fiction are derieved from real world companies, but not exactly so (to avoid legal issues?)...

When quoting someone, do NOT change the quotes.

As per the article:

F-14 - VF-1

This is NOT opinion. It is fact. Changing the F-14 to the F203 Dragon II is your own opinion, and it is the height of rudeness to attribute your opinion to someone else.

Edited April 17, 2008 by sketchley

[sketchley]

Well the article was prior to the Mac Zero retcon, so anything is possible...

Great Mechanics.DX 4

Funny how the magazine was published on 2008.04.15 and includes the VF-171, the VF-25, and scenes from the first episode of Macross Frontier.

[sketchley]

Now that you mentioned it. When I realized that Ozma's unit was flying in an artificial Earth-like atmosphere with that huge amount of armor, I went WTF!!!!??? If it was in space It was believable. I mean the original full armor from Macross Zero being used by Roy could only hover inside the Asuka.

Keep in mind that the interior of the Macross Frontier has a lower gravity than our own Earth. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think it was 0.6 or 0.7 g. You'll have to check the first episode, as the actual level can be seen when Sheryl is disembarking from the transport that brought her to the ship.

EDIT: it appears that Master Dex beat me to it.

Edited April 17, 2008 by sketchley

[Mr March]

In any case, even with the 25 you can see how the hovering was quite laboured when Ozma's VF lumbered out of the hanger.

One scene later (the sequence that shows the title) the VF-25 Full Armor is shown flying in GERWALK mode, not hovering along the ground slowly. Remember, Ozuma was way up high when he found Alto and the Vajra, such that he needed the cockpit to magnify the distant image.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Mr March

[ChronoReverse]

One scene later (the sequence that shows the title) the VF-25 Full Armor is shown flying in GERWALK mode, not hovering along the ground slowly. Remember, Ozuma was way up high when he found Alto and the Vajra, such that he needed the cockpit to magnify the distant image.

If you can safely hover, it won't take too much to lift off. But more importantly, Ozma's 25 dipped when it came out of the hangar and caught itself using the hovering jets (but barely which was what I meant but lumber). This indicates sufficient power for lift.

It would be a reasonable assumption that a VF that can usefully hover has the ability to fly too. Otherwise, the slightest variation in the normal force (sum of downward forces) would send it into a heap on the ground.

Incidentally, we know that the VF-11 already had a sufficiently powerful hover to be able to support the larger YF-22 in GERWALK mode.

Edited April 17, 2008 by ChronoReverse

[TehPW]

'sketchley' Please STUFF IT up yer shorts. The Dragon II came first, regardless of what changes or intent the great Froating Head said, or changed his underwear a dozen times over since 1982. The COLORS for Skull-One came from a VF-84 Tomcat yes, but the VF-1 has a slight silhouette comparison to the Tomcat. Certainly the F-203 looks remotely like the F-15 and yet looks very similar to the VF-1. even the VF-0D's silhouette makes it look more like a Eagle than a Tomcat. That was my point. quoting BS from a magazine is like changes to Star Trek's (or even better, Star Wars) cannonity after the fact. Next time, PM your complaint so i can edit it politly...

/me goes back to lurk and sulk.

[sketchley]

I don't have an agenda other than reporting accurately. I merely pointed out what the magazine article states. You're changing that report to your own opinion is what has angered me. Therefore, you shove it up your shorts. Opinionate all you want. DO NOT change facts and misquote other people's posts.

Edited April 17, 2008 by sketchley