Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread *Read 1st post*

[TehPW]

Ok, cool that.

has there been anything written to state they have a official designation of both versions of the VF-25? as far as ive seen both fighters are VF-25... but not VF-25J, S or PAG, 123 or what ever

[azrael]

has there been anything written to state they have a official designation of both versions of the VF-25? as far as ive seen both fighters are VF-25... but not VF-25J, S or PAG, 123 or what ever

Nope. Only thing we have is "Ozuma-type" and "Alto-type". No official designations have popped up yet.

[Graham]

I find it strange that a "J" designation would be used for the VF-25, given what the Macross Compendium says about the "J" designation on the VF-1: -

VF-1J: Version manufactured by licensee Shinnakasu Heavy Industry and assigned to air team and squadron leaders. Two RÖV-20 laser guns on improved Kyuusei-Industry-designed head unit.The out-of-sequence "J" designation is believed to represent the abbreviation of the region of its origin.

Which basically means the "J" means built in Japan. Hard to believe any of the VF-25 in the Frontier fleet were licenced built in Japan.

Graham

[wolfx]

I always thought that J meant "Junior" officers and S meant "Senior" officers.

Must be something from Palladium books.

[Mr March]

Kawamori might forgo the letter designation definition of "J" for the VF-25 just so he can create an homage.

Edited January 20, 2008 by Mr March

[chrono]

I believe it's Ozuma's full-armored VF-25 in it's early stages of design.

That's what it is. It's a concept design. Just think of it as a posing doll.

Why? Just look at the 'ankles'. It lacks the "gundam" ankle design that's in the final designs.

[Zinjo]

Haven't been keeping up with all the Mac F threads like a good Macross fan should, so my apologies if this has been asked before.

Anyone know what Valk this is?

It's shown near the end of the 25th anniversary TV special.

Looks like a VF-25 variant to me, especially the batroid mode.

Probably a NUNS fighter that hasn't been featured yet.

It reminds me of a cross between the VF-14 and the SV-51....

[wolfx]

Probably a NUNS fighter that hasn't been featured yet.

It reminds me of a cross between the VF-14 and the SV-51....

Yeah. You get to see it here to the right of Ozma in the 25th anniversary special.

[azrael]

Probably a NUNS fighter that hasn't been featured yet.

It reminds me of a cross between the VF-14 and the SV-51....

Considering the context of the scene where it showed up, it's more likely that it's just Ozuma's full-armored VF-25 in concept stage/posing doll for the animator(s). In the footage, Kawamori was talking to one of the CG animators and the 3D wire model looks for Ozuma's FA VF-25 exactly how this fighter ends up.

[azrael]

Yeah. You get to see it here to the right of Ozma in the 25th anniversary special.

I believe that is just a VF-25 with Super parts. Again, I do not believe it it is a new fighter. It's just a posing doll/model for the VF-25 with full armor or Super parts.

[Zinjo]

I believe that is just a VF-25 with Super parts. Again, I do not believe it it is a new fighter. It's just a posing doll/model for the VF-25 with full armor or Super parts.

I disagree. The shape is far too different to be a VF-25, however we'll have to see if there is a new fighter or if this is the VF-25 with FAST packs, once the series gets rolling...

Edited January 22, 2008 by Zinjo

[Kurisama]

It definately has a STRONG SV-51 flavour. Which is all types of win, as far as i'm concerned.

[Graham]

That purple mecha was discussed before. I think it's either something that hasn't shown up yet in the anime, or an early unused draft for the VF-25 that Kawamori discarded.

I don't think the purple mech is shown in that screen shot. I thing that's just a standard VF-25 super.

Graham

[wolfx]

I believe that is just a VF-25 with Super parts. Again, I do not believe it it is a new fighter. It's just a posing doll/model for the VF-25 with full armor or Super parts.

That purple mecha was discussed before. I think it's either something that hasn't shown up yet in the anime, or an early unused draft for the VF-25 that Kawamori discarded.

I don't think the purple mech is shown in that screen shot. I thing that's just a standard VF-25 super.

Graham

You can just barely make out the tail stabilisers that are on top of where the thrusters are in the screenshot. These stabilisers are in the purple mech but obviously not on top of the VF-25 Super's FAST packs.

[Zinjo]

You can just barely make out the tail stabilisers that are on top of where the thrusters are in the screenshot. These stabilisers are in the purple mech but obviously not on top of the VF-25 Super's FAST packs.

That shot is the one where Ozuma and Gilliam fly into the fray. Ozuma had the armored VF-25, while Gilliam only had FAST packs.

I suspect you are reading too much into the image.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Zinjo

[Kurisama]

From that purple fighter screen shot, looks like they're using Maya... now if i can somehow get my hands on those Maya files....

[wolfx]

That shot is the one where Ozuma and Gilliam fly into the fray. Ozuma had the armored VF-25, while Gilliam only had FAST packs.

I suspect you are reading too much into the image.

Its not. Its part of episode 2 when Ozma was handing the aliens a$$ back to them shown when Kawamori was dicussing with the the animation team in the Special. Reading too much? Shrug. Maybe. We'll see in April.

[Final Vegeta]

Although this editing of the first episode of Macross Frontier has some problems with clipping, in no scene the VF-171 is ever shown with an external gunpod

AND

The VF-171 in Fighter mode fires from the chest guns.

My conclusion is that in standard configuration the VF-171 is not armed with a gunpod (and the relative beam adaptor). Maybe with FAST packs (or the armored pack) there will be something for the arms to use, but for now there is nothing. Even the arm lasers seem missing.

I think the VF-171 has gone the opposite of VF-11 in cannonfodderization: the VF-11 has a gunpod but no underwing missiles, and the VF-171 has underwing missiles but no gunpod.

FV

[wolfx]

Although this editing of the first episode of Macross Frontier has some problems with clipping, in no scene the VF-171 is ever shown with an external gunpod

AND

The VF-171 in Fighter mode fires from the chest guns.

My conclusion is that in standard configuration the VF-171 is not armed with a gunpod (and the relative beam adaptor). Maybe with FAST packs (or the armored pack) there will be something for the arms to use, but for now there is nothing. Even the arm lasers seem missing.

I think the VF-171 has gone the opposite of VF-11 in cannonfodderization: the VF-11 has a gunpod but no underwing missiles, and the VF-171 has underwing missiles but no gunpod.

FV

The VF-17D/S had internal gunpods anyway so you can't see it unless its being fired. The thing now is with the slim legs is it even possible to store a gunpod there. You may be right though that the gunpod could be external now.

From the manga it would seem the VF-171 still has the elbow lasers.

[Graham]

From the manga, it would seem like the VF-171 still has the full size gunpod from the VF-17 as well.

Graham

[Mark Nguyen]

Hey, let's talk about the new mecha introduced int he other threads! Per the recent images, we'll be treated to the following in MF:

1. The VB-6 (?) Konig Monster

Some panel lines are different, but overall I don't think it's changed much since VF-X2. As that game supposedly happens in 2050, having one show up here is just fine. It's in SMS service and not NUNS though, but if SMS uses the latest 25s... Who knows what use they'll have in the show, but long-large bombardment is hardly needed inside the ship (especially since they already have lots of conventional tanks). I'm guessing that Frontier will see some planetside action, enabling this smiling giant some screen time at last.

2. More Quedulun Rau Meltran armor

I'm happy to see these gals in what seems to be a Meltran analog to the armor units we saw in Macross Plus. Oddly though, the legs look all wierd, and they CERTAINLY don't look like they can carry a full size pilot in the legs. Or am I wrong, and in the original are the pilot's legs bunched up somewhere else but in the leg? Either way, it looks like they've got a little additional firepower now, with a new cannon on the back and longer-barreled triple guns in the arms.

And new details on stuff we've seen:

3. The VF-171

Liking it more, even if it's skinnier than I'd thought they'd make it. I see now that the shoulders seem to have only one missle port each, as opposed to the two each the original VF-17 had. This is again analogous to the VF-11, which had four missile ports per FAST pack on the B model from Macross Plus, but only two each on the C model we see in Macross 7. There's also no sign of the wierd forward-articulating knee the original had (and never explained). No sign of the arm-mounted cannon, but it might just be retracted; OTOH, it was never REALLY used on the 17, and the skinnier arms siggest it's not there.

4. The warships

Not much new here, although some have argued that the Uraga carrier types are much longer than the M7 lineart, and must therefore be variants. I'm personally willing to chalk these up to artistic interpretation, and the fact that these CG versions actually LOOK like they can be 500m long. The ARMD carriers continue to have no visible detail in their gaping maw, although in M7 it's shown to be a fighter launch bay. This contrasts with MF, where the 171s are launched from familiar DYRL armatures on the sides, complete with M7-esque hologrpahic guidance lighting. This keeps me thinking that the 171s still fill the role of spec ops fighter, and that some unseen (and possibly NEVER to be seen) fighter is still the cannon fodder workhorse. Let me hope for a 19, dammit!

Any more details to dicuss?

Mark

[Zinjo]

3. The VF-171

Liking it more, even if it's skinnier than I'd thought they'd make it. I see now that the shoulders seem to have only one missle port each, as opposed to the two each the original VF-17 had. This is again analogous to the VF-11, which had four missile ports per FAST pack on the B model from Macross Plus, but only two each on the C model we see in Macross 7. There's also no sign of the wierd forward-articulating knee the original had (and never explained). No sign of the arm-mounted cannon, but it might just be retracted; OTOH, it was never REALLY used on the 17, and the skinnier arms siggest it's not there.

4. The warships

Not much new here, although some have argued that the Uraga carrier types are much longer than the M7 lineart, and must therefore be variants. I'm personally willing to chalk these up to artistic interpretation, and the fact that these CG versions actually LOOK like they can be 500m long. The ARMD carriers continue to have no visible detail in their gaping maw, although in M7 it's shown to be a fighter launch bay. This contrasts with MF, where the 171s are launched from familiar DYRL armatures on the sides, complete with M7-esque hologrpahic guidance lighting. This keeps me thinking that the 171s still fill the role of spec ops fighter, and that some unseen (and possibly NEVER to be seen) fighter is still the cannon fodder workhorse. Let me hope for a 19, dammit!

Any more details to dicuss?

Mark

The 171 looks more like a mass production model of a proven design to me. Several of the standard equipment on the VF-17 was removed possibly to make it more affordable and faster to build. That isn't to say the VF-17 still isn't in service, just not on a massive scale.

The new cap ships are an interesting departure from previous ships. The inclusion of battleships in the fleet is new. I tend to believe the Uraga's are a "properly" proportioned version of the Miyataki design. As for the ARMD carriers, I suspect the "maw" is the recovery hanger bay, not so much a launch bay.

[Mr March]

A Note About...Queadluun-Rau Battle Suits

I'm really interested to know the size of these new Q-Rau battle suits. Specifically, I'd like to know if they really are still "battle suits" and not Valkyire/Destroid esque mecha now piloted by human-size Zentradi and human pilots. The changes in the design from the DYRL version seems to suggest they may be operated by human-sized pilots. I also wonder if most of the energy weapons have been removed. Unlike ballistic weapons in the Macross universe, most energy cannons do not require large, long barrels. There are exceptions of course, but I've noted most of the small to medium bore laser/converging energy cannons have small, short barrels. This may mean the arm guns have been changed from laser pulse guns to ballistic cannons.

[Zinjo]

A Note About...Queadluun-Rau Battle Suits

I'm really interested to know the size of these new Q-Rau battle suits. Specifically, I'd like to know if they really are still "battle suits" and not Valkyire/Destroid esque mecha now piloted by human-size Zentradi and human pilots. The changes in the design from the DYRL version seems to suggest they may be operated by human-sized pilots. I also wonder if most of the energy weapons have been removed. Unlike ballistic weapons in the Macross universe, most energy cannons do not require large, long barrels. There are exceptions of course, but I've noted most of the small to medium bore laser/converging energy cannons have small, short barrels. This may mean the arm guns have been changed from laser pulse guns to ballistic cannons.

well it wouldn't surprise me if that weren't true. The Q-Rau was a formidable mecha in the hands of a capable pilot. Powerful, fast and agile, an efficient killing machine! Shrink it down and you get the same punch in a compact package...

Edited February 1, 2008 by Zinjo

[Mark Nguyen]

I don't think they're shrunk down; looking at the leg joints, there's no way a full-sized female Zentradi could fit in there. Unless it's an animation design goof, I'd say that these powered armors are piloted by fun-sized giants only.

As for the ARMD carriers, the only time we see them used is when VF-11s are being launched form them. They simply appear from the blackness and zoom off. I can see them being used for retrival too... But in MF it is the first time we see the classic Valkyrie launch as seen in DYRL, with added funk.

Mark

[Zinjo]

I don't think they're shrunk down; looking at the leg joints, there's no way a full-sized female Zentradi could fit in there. Unless it's an animation design goof, I'd say that these powered armors are piloted by fun-sized giants only.

According to Graham, the pilot's legs are situated in the backpack, not the legs like the Nos.

As for the ARMD carriers, the only time we see them used is when VF-11s are being launched form them. They simply appear from the blackness and zoom off. I can see them being used for retrival too... But in MF it is the first time we see the classic Valkyrie launch as seen in DYRL, with added funk.

Mark

In an all out scramble it is very likely both would be used to get the maximum number of aircraft out at one time.

[Sumdumgai]

Nice catch Mr. March, I hadn't noticed the elongated cannons on the arms. The backpack thrusters are more recessed and higher up in the backpack. The "boob-cannons" aren't large bore anymore, they've got a smaller barrel sticking out. There are extra little nubs on the back missile launchers. They look like they might be for something. Maybe chaff and flare launchers?

In any case, I like this evolution of the Q-rau so far. I still want to know what those two things are on the right shoulder. It's familiar yet different. I just hope they don't go the way of the VF-11 and VF-171 (moving targets).

[Mr March]

Touching upon an issue raised by Sumdumgai, if the lower body of the giant-sized Meltran pilot does indeed slide into the lower portion of the Queadluun-Rau "backpack" section (as it does in the Yamato toy), I don't see how this new Q-Rau MF* can possibly fit a full-sized Meltran. The "backpack" section of the Q-Rau MF* does not fall below the hips of the battle suit and clearly couldn't hold the lower body of a giant sized Meltran.

The two "cylinders" fit on the rear right missile launcher are likely additional vernier thrusters. They are probably also designed to add weight and offset the would-be mass imbalance caused the large cannon mounted off-center upon the rear left missile launcher. Which raises another question; why mount that big cannon off-center anyway? That top rear antenna could be relocated easy enough and the gap between the two engines would make an ideal slot for the cannon to rest. *shrugs*

* temporary fan designation for the Macross Frontier version of the Q-Rau

Edited February 1, 2008 by Mr March

[TehPW]

Touching upon an issue raised by Sumdumgai, if the lower body of the giant-sized Meltran pilot does indeed slide into the lower portion of the Queadluun-Rau "backpack" section (as it does in the Yamato toy), I don't see how this new Q-Rau MF* can possibly fit a full-sized Meltran. The "backpack" section of the Q-Rau MF* does not fall below the hips of the battle suit and clearly couldn't hold the lower body of a giant sized Meltran.

The two "cylinders" fit on the rear right missile launcher are likely additional vernier thrusters. They are probably also designed to add weight and offset the would-be mass imbalance caused the large cannon mounted off-center upon the rear left missile launcher. Which raises another question; why mount that big cannon off-center anyway? That top rear antenna could be relocated easy enough and the gap between the two engines would make an ideal slot for the cannon to rest. *shrugs*

* temporary fan designation for the Macross Frontier version of the Q-Rau

has anyone tranlated the pics on the previous Info thread about the VF-171, Ko-Monster and Q-Rau (MF)? My Q is, are the Q-Rau (MF)'s friendly?. As much danger the fleet is in with this new 'Lightning' race, you think a sudden appearance by yet another rogue Meltrandi fleet be overkill?

[Graham]

The two "cylinders" fit on the rear right missile launcher are likely additional vernier thrusters. They are probably also designed to add weight and offset the would-be mass imbalance caused the large cannon mounted off-center upon the rear left missile launcher. Which raises another question; why mount that big cannon off-center anyway? That top rear antenna could be relocated easy enough and the gap between the two engines would make an ideal slot for the cannon to rest. *shrugs*

My theory is that the two cylinders on the right shoulder are either fuel tanks for greater endurance in space, or power packs or liquid propellant tanks for the large cannon on the left shoulder.

Graham

[Graham]

Hey, let's talk about the new mecha introduced int he other threads! Per the recent images, we'll be treated to the following in MF:

The VF-171

Liking it more, even if it's skinnier than I'd thought they'd make it. I see now that the shoulders seem to have only one missle port each, as opposed to the two each the original VF-17 had. This is again analogous to the VF-11, which had four missile ports per FAST pack on the B model from Macross Plus, but only two each on the C model we see in Macross 7. There's also no sign of the wierd forward-articulating knee the original had (and never explained). No sign of the arm-mounted cannon, but it might just be retracted; OTOH, it was never REALLY used on the 17, and the skinnier arms siggest it's not there.

Mark

My theory about the reduced number of micro-missile launchers on the VF-171's shoulder is that the rate of fire per launcher may have been improved, so it is now more practical given the limited space in the shoulders, to just have a single launcher per shoulder with a slightly high ammo capacity and equivalent rate of fire as the older twin launchers on the VF-17, rather than have twin launchers, which would take up slightly more internal space and reduce the missile capacity. I never figured the VF-17 was able to store a large number of missiles per shoulder launcher, probably no more than 2-4 maximum per launcher. Don't forget, it also looks like the VF-171 may also have twin internal micro missile launchers on the lower legs (ventral surface of the fighter).

No sure what you mean about the forward articulating knee. The VF-171 certainly does appear to have a forward articulating knee (as does every VF) for GERWALK mode use.

The Macross Frontier manga, does show the VF-171s with extended elbow cannons in GERWALK mode. Of course, we are not sure how faithful the manga is to the anime yet.

IIRC, the VF-17s in Macross 7 only used their elbow cannons in one episode.

Graham

[TehPW]

My theory is that the two cylinders on the right shoulder are either fuel tanks for greater endurance in space, or power packs or liquid propellant tanks for the large cannon on the left shoulder.

Graham

Propellant Tanks for sure (up in the air if they actually are used for movement or suport of the over-the-shoulder gun). a UC era Mobile suit (painted red, like a advanced zaku?) had propellant tanks, LONG tanks around a center tail extention of the mecha that acted like a booster...

[kensei]

IIRC, the VF-17s in Macross 7 only used their elbow cannons in one episode.

Graham

I think it was the episode when Glavil first came to the scene and caught Mylene. Gamlin went in with them blazing. I've never seen them used in Battroid mode though, when they are facing towards the hand.

[Graham]

I forget which episode number it is, but it's the one where one of the protodeviln is creating all those little pink beasties inside city 7. You see the VF-17s in Gerwalk using the elbow lasers.

I agree we never see the wrist lasers in use in battroid mode.

We do get to see the VF-17's chest guns firing lots of times in battroid and fighter mode throughout the series, although it's usually so fast, you only catch it playing in slo-mo, or if you are specifically looking for it.

Graham

[Sumdumgai]

Maybe the pilots of the Q-rau MF* are sitting kind of hunched up like in a tachikoma cockpit.

I am curious to see who is carrying on with Miria's colors.